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Religon Vs. Science

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3than0d311
Posts: 200 - Karma: 1,126
So, I come from a very religious family (close and extended). I was kind of the black sheep and never really went or gave a damn. It was merely a waste of a morning and a waste of time. I have been going to church more recently because my local "rich people" resort has a deal where if you bring a church bulletin you get a $10 lift ticket.

Anyway, ive been doing some research for school and realized that there were many civilizations that were thriving during the time of "the great flood". I did a little more digging and found out that none of them (in very detailed record) mentioned a life ending flood that plagued the earth.

So i did some more searching and the same idea applies to evolution. Now, evolution is about 98% proven and some loose ends are being tied up where as In the bible it says god created a man and a woman and that was that.

Now here is my issue. I want to beleive that their is a higher power for self help. But fuck, man. Science is proof.


I want any and all proof no matter what you beleive. I dont care if you dont beleive or hail satan. And dont pull the whole "well dont beleive this, beleive this"
Oct 2 2016 12:56PM
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S.J.W
Posts: 7609 - Karma: 31,185
milk_manIt is commonly agreed on across the entire human race that the definition of God is an all powerful being. If definitions that are made by humans have zero validity then nothing has validity including our conversation..


So God created all these rules which if we break we're going straight to hell? Why didn't got just create humans who didn't sin? At some point in his creation he would have to been like fuck well just for lols let's make a small percentage of them like their own sex. Fucking lol.
Oct 4 2016 3:22PM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,484
Ya'll need jesus
Oct 4 2016 3:23PM
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milk_man
Posts: 5252 - Karma: 5,983
S.J.WSo God created all these rules which if we break we're going straight to hell? Why didn't got just create humans who didn't sin? At some point in his creation he would have to been like fuck well just for lols let's make a small percentage of them like their own sex. Fucking lol.


Mannn I'm definitely not gonna go over the fall of man with you haha. But we could start a new thing called milk_man's Sunday school and we can talk all about it

According to Christianity God created us without sin, but with the ability to choose to sin. If we didn't have free will what would be the point of living? None of us would be unique
Oct 4 2016 3:52PM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11954 - Karma: 12,297
milk_manWe are talking about a hypothetical situation involving a being that cannot be proven. Your argument is circling around the fact that we cannot prove there is a God. What I'm saying is humanity has agreed on some characteristics of God, should he exist. My point was that a unicorn creating science does not have the same validity as God creating science


Just because the majority of people believe in something with no proof doesn't make it any more valid. The majority of people once believed the world was flat, didn't make it more valid than the opinion that it was round. The majority of people once believed the sun orbited the earth, didn't make it more valid than the opinion that the earth orbited around the sun. Your logic is off. They are equally as valid because both have 0 facts to support them.
Oct 4 2016 5:25PM
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S.J.W
Posts: 7609 - Karma: 31,185
milk_manMannn I'm definitely not gonna go over the fall of man with you haha. But we could start a new thing called milk_man's Sunday school and we can talk all about it

According to Christianity God created us without sin, but with the ability to choose to sin. If we didn't have free will what would be the point of living? None of us would be unique


well then America is fucked. Because apparently price is a sin, and therefore all these christians who are like "USA USA USA" are showing pride and therefore sinning. What about all the fat christians? That's a sin too. Don't eat too much. Actually I like that. God seems alright.
Oct 4 2016 5:33PM
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milk_man
Posts: 5252 - Karma: 5,983
Charlie_KellyThey are equally as valid because both have 0 facts to support them.


There is a God: He did create science
There isn't a God: He didn't create science

There are unicorns: Unicorns don't create things
There aren't unicorns: They didn't create science


I wasn't saying the fact that everyone has a clear definition of God means there is a God. Never did I even slightly say that. I'm taking down the dumb claim that unicorns creating science has as much validity as God creating science.

If God exists he DID create science
If unicorns existed we would have no reason to believe they created science
Oct 4 2016 5:40PM
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arnie_grape
Posts: 3451 - Karma: 11,678
milk_manThere is a God: He did create science
There isn't a God: He didn't create science

There are unicorns: Unicorns don't create things
There aren't unicorns: They didn't create science


how do you know unicorns don't create things?

does it say in the bible?

also why were there no unicorns on the arc???

did god banish them for trying to take credit?
Oct 4 2016 6:16PM
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arnie_grape
Posts: 3451 - Karma: 11,678
milk_manThere is a God: He did create science
There isn't a God: He didn't create science

There are unicorns: Unicorns don't create things
There aren't unicorns: They didn't create science


how do you know unicorns didn't create god?

did god also create circular reasoning??


you've really provoked my thoughts with your certainty.
Oct 4 2016 6:20PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
GORILLAWALLACEhow do you know unicorns didn't create god?

did god also create circular reasoning??


you've really provoked my thoughts with your certainty.


Who created time, matter, and "the beginning"?
Oct 4 2016 6:26PM
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arnie_grape
Posts: 3451 - Karma: 11,678
californiagrownWho created time, matter, and "the beginning"?


god bro didn't you read the thread
Oct 4 2016 6:27PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
GORILLAWALLACEgod bro didn't you read the thread


Moral of the story: your view is no more valid than mine. Be a nice dude, do good things, and make the world a better place for all. If you just wanna prove your righter, get fucked.
Oct 4 2016 6:43PM
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arnie_grape
Posts: 3451 - Karma: 11,678
californiagrownMoral of the story: your view is no more valid than mine. Be a nice dude, do good things, and make the world a better place for all. If you just wanna prove your righter, get fucked.


I'm righter.


fight me cunt
Oct 4 2016 9:30PM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11954 - Karma: 12,297
californiagrownWho created time, matter, and "the beginning"?


It doesn't have to be a who...
Oct 5 2016 8:36AM
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JGWI
Posts: 2842 - Karma: 7,812
californiagrownWho created time, matter, and "the beginning"?


If time didn't exsist before the Big Bang then the concept of something preceding time creating the universe is a bit baffling.
Oct 5 2016 9:05AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
Charlie_KellyIt doesn't have to be a who...

Sure. What created time and existence?
JGWIIf time didn't exsist before the Big Bang then the concept of something preceding time creating the universe is a bit baffling.


So, what created or who created time and existence?
Oct 5 2016 10:57AM
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JGWI
Posts: 2842 - Karma: 7,812
californiagrownSure. What created time and existence?


So, what created or who created time and existence?


Idk, but saying it was a bearded man in the sky who cares about my sexual desires and cures peoples stuffy noses seems a bit far fetched and unimaginative.

"We've tended in our cosmologies to make things familiar, despite all our best efforts, we haven't been very inventive. In the west, heaven is placid and fluffy and hell is like the inside of a volcano. In each societys religion we find government hiarchies headed by gods and devils applying something resemboling our own moral codes to the cosmos, few found the similarities suspicious." C Sagan


What am I getting at? Perhaps the concept of creation is incorrect in the origins of the cosmos we know.
Oct 5 2016 11:31AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
JGWIIdk, but saying it was a bearded man in the sky who cares about my sexual desires and cures peoples stuffy noses seems unimaginative.

What am I getting at? Perhaps the concept of creation is incorrect in the origins of the cosmos we know.

Damn you must be one creative motherfucker if you don't think the bible and the concept of god is unimaginative haha.

Explain the last part further. I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Are you trying to say there was no begining, but instead the universe and time has always been in existence?
Oct 5 2016 12:20PM
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MIHoodlum
Posts: 245 - Karma: 256
For me I accept I don't know which is the truth. It is ok for you to require intagable emotional solice and believe in science.
Oct 5 2016 3:45PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
MIHoodlumFor me I accept I don't know which is the truth. It is ok for you to require intagable emotional solice and believe in science.


Gtfo with your logic and tolerance. This is a discussion about religion vs science!!
Oct 5 2016 3:55PM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11954 - Karma: 12,297
californiagrownSure. What created time and existence?


So, what created or who created time and existence?


We created time lol...as for existance, I personally don't know, but that doesn't mean it couldn't/didn't happen randomly. Blaming another entity for things we can't explain is just human nature I guess. Shallow thinking tho...stop settling...
Oct 5 2016 6:44PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
Charlie_KellyWe created time lol...as for existance, I personally don't know, but that doesn't mean it couldn't/didn't happen randomly. Blaming another entity for things we can't explain is just human nature I guess. Shallow thinking tho...stop settling...


We created time? You're thinking "keeping time". Humans sure as shit didn't create time.

Who is settling? You are belittling people for having an explanation to a problem you won't even attempt to tackle. I'd argue that is shallow thinking.
Oct 5 2016 6:58PM
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3than0d311
Posts: 200 - Karma: 1,126
MIHoodlumFor me I accept I don't know which is the truth. It is ok for you to require intagable emotional solice and believe in science.


Off topic, but S/O to Nubs man
Oct 5 2016 8:22PM
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macavity
Posts: 264 - Karma: 493
MR.POOPYBUTTHOLEnobody exists on purpose, nobody belongs anywhere, everyone is going to die.


3than0d311Alright buddy, sit the fuck down. Not looking for negativity. Not saying you are wrong, just looking for input not negg


I'm like 110% sure this was a reference to rick and morty so I wouldn't get too worked up over it
Oct 6 2016 5:22AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6656 - Karma: 10,862
milk_manWe are talking about a hypothetical situation involving a being that cannot be proven. Your argument is circling around the fact that we cannot prove there is a God. What I'm saying is humanity has agreed on some characteristics of God, should he exist. My point was that a unicorn creating science does not have the same validity as God creating science


First- not all religions believe that God is all powerful. The 3 Abrahamic religions do, but many modern poly-theistic religions do not. Many gods are VERY powerful, not perfectly powerful, and lack the power of creation.

Second- since unicorns do not exist to prove otherwise, we could easy change the definition of a unicorn to include that it can create things. And that's my point- simply because you define something, it doesn't necessarily mean that it exists. This is the problem with St. Anselm's proof of God- existence is not a logical predicate. You can't say that a perfect being would exist because to not exist would be less perfect.

I'll grant you the argument you made on the previous page, that IF God (as an all-perfect, all-knowing, all-powerful, etc. being) exists, then of course science would be a result of such a being's creation. But since there is no evidence for such a claim, your claim lives in the world of non-contradictory hypothetical ideas, just as flying spaghetti monsters and unicorns do.
Oct 6 2016 5:28AM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11954 - Karma: 12,297
californiagrownWe created time? You're thinking "keeping time". Humans sure as shit didn't create time.

Who is settling? You are belittling people for having an explanation to a problem you won't even attempt to tackle. I'd argue that is shallow thinking.


If we didn't "keep time" there would be no time. Time is simply a measurement. Humans created measurements.

And to me religion is a form of settling, especially in relation to the topics you've brought up. Instead of going out and seeking a true answer to those questions you settle by blaming it on an all powerful being that has 0 proof backing up its existence. Meanwhile evidence rolls in every day pointing us in the direction of our origins yet you and others discredit that work based off your belief in a religious text written by men that didn't understand how the world worked...
Oct 6 2016 6:46AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
Charlie_KellyIf we didn't "keep time" there would be no time. Time is simply a measurement. Humans created measurements.

And to me religion is a form of settling, especially in relation to the topics you've brought up. Instead of going out and seeking a true answer to those questions you settle by blaming it on an all powerful being that has 0 proof backing up its existence. Meanwhile evidence rolls in every day pointing us in the direction of our origins yet you and others discredit that work based off your belief in a religious text written by men that didn't understand how the world worked...


Ah, so mass doesn't exist either eh? Before humans existed, nothing existed because we couldn't measure it... is how your logic goes. Sounds damn close to creationism....

What have I discredited? Other than your ability to disprove god? Lol.

So, what created time and the begging of time? Or do you have zero theories, zero motivation to find out, and just hold a blind faith in science to eventually explain it all?
Oct 6 2016 10:32AM
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milk_man
Posts: 5252 - Karma: 5,983
onenerdykidFirst- not all religions believe that God is all powerful. The 3 Abrahamic religions do, but many modern poly-theistic religions do not. Many gods are VERY powerful, not perfectly powerful, and lack the power of creation.

Second- since unicorns do not exist to prove otherwise, we could easy change the definition of a unicorn to include that it can create things. And that's my point- simply because you define something, it doesn't necessarily mean that it exists. This is the problem with St. Anselm's proof of God- existence is not a logical predicate. You can't say that a perfect being would exist because to not exist would be less perfect.

I'll grant you the argument you made on the previous page, that IF God (as an all-perfect, all-knowing, all-powerful, etc. being) exists, then of course science would be a result of such a being's creation. But since there is no evidence for such a claim, your claim lives in the world of non-contradictory hypothetical ideas, just as flying spaghetti monsters and unicorns do.


Yeh we went over St. Anselm's proof of God in philosophy and I'm not trying to use that.I was just saying and still hold to the fact that spaghetti monsters and unicorns do not hold as much credibility as God.
Oct 6 2016 11:23AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
milk_manYeh we went over St. Anselm's proof of God in philosophy and I'm not trying to use that.I was just saying and still hold to the fact that spaghetti monsters and unicorns do not hold as much credibility as God.


In as much as vastly more people people claim to have had direct contact/experiences with God, as opposed to a spaghetti monster? And God has a much more established religon to back him up?
Oct 6 2016 11:46AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6656 - Karma: 10,862
milk_manI was just saying and still hold to the fact that spaghetti monsters and unicorns do not hold as much credibility as God.


For sure there is more theology/history of argument behind God than unicorns or flying spaghetti monsters, but do you see the irony in your claim? The only credibility that God has is one based on simple popularity. Just because a lot of people believe it, it doesn't make it actually credible or any more true. If belief in God were to die out and be replaced by a flying spaghetti monster and billions of people really believe that a flying spaghetti monster is the ultimate cause of all things, then it's the same thing. Both lack any sufficient evidence for their reason to be or the claims made on their behalf.
Oct 8 2016 5:26AM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11954 - Karma: 12,297
onenerdykidFor sure there is more theology/history of argument behind God than unicorns or flying spaghetti monsters, but do you see the irony in your claim? The only credibility that God has is one based on simple popularity. Just because a lot of people believe it, it doesn't make it actually credible or any more true. If belief in God were to die out and be replaced by a flying spaghetti monster and billions of people really believe that a flying spaghetti monster is the ultimate cause of all things, then it's the same thing. Both lack any sufficient evidence for their reason to be or the claims made on their behalf.


Literally been trying to explain this to him
Oct 8 2016 10:10AM
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arnie_grape
Posts: 3451 - Karma: 11,678
onenerdykidFor sure there is more theology/history of argument behind God than unicorns or flying spaghetti monsters, but do you see the irony in your claim? The only credibility that God has is one based on simple popularity. Just because a lot of people believe it, it doesn't make it actually credible or any more true. If belief in God were to die out and be replaced by a flying spaghetti monster and billions of people really believe that a flying spaghetti monster is the ultimate cause of all things, then it's the same thing. Both lack any sufficient evidence for their reason to be or the claims made on their behalf.


but...but the definition of god....
Oct 8 2016 9:14PM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
Allah doesn't exist.

Mohammed was an illiterate, schizophrenic pedophile who lived in the desert.

There are no 72 virgins for Islamic terrorists in the afterlife.

Pardon my "racism".
Oct 8 2016 10:51PM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
While I don't really believe anything from the Christian Bible on a religious level, I'll always defend Christian culture. In that sense, Christianity has value to me.

When I consider the sheer size of the universe, it's difficult for me to believe that God has any special interest in planet Earth. If there is a God, the Deist theory of God as a clockmaker I think is the most rational.
Oct 8 2016 10:57PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6656 - Karma: 10,862
CampeadorThere are no 72 virgins for Islamic terrorists in the afterlife.



Oct 9 2016 4:00AM
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miroz
Posts: 10333 - Karma: 3,945
GORILLAWALLACEhow do you know unicorns don't create things?

does it say in the bible?

also why were there no unicorns on the arc???

did god banish them for trying to take credit?


GORILLAWALLACEhow do you know unicorns didn't create god?

did god also create circular reasoning??


you've really provoked my thoughts with your certainty.


Late to the thread, but these hilarious, upvote
Oct 11 2016 6:16PM
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Crux
Posts: 31 - Karma: 33
Good question. Just hard to chose because with science if there's a massive break through and the gov doesn't want people knowing then people won't know. So is there a higher power, could be. Could science answer all our outrageous questions, well we're gonna have to wait a lot longer for some answers so for now it seems like go with the higher power.
Oct 12 2016 10:35PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
CruxGood question. Just hard to chose because with science if there's a massive break through and the gov doesn't want people knowing then people won't know. So is there a higher power, could be. Could science answer all our outrageous questions, well we're gonna have to wait a lot longer for some answers so for now it seems like go with the higher power.

What massive scientific breakthroughs has the government withheld in the past?
Oct 12 2016 10:39PM
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Crux
Posts: 31 - Karma: 33
californiagrownWhat massive scientific breakthroughs has the government withheld in the past?


Well if you do some research there's some random numbers you type into google and supposedly it's the cure to AIDS with a patent to prove it. If you've ever been on the deep web there's tons of cover ups that have been done in the past floating around. I'm not saying they would hide a scientific breakthrough but if you wanna look at coverups they've done like the Roswell crash in 1947 and then a few years later we're developing better military technology? I mean they could not cover it up. But I think if there's a profit to be made then the government would try and hold back and try to make a fortune before things get released. Unless it's some small private science company but the big ones that the government looks at you never know
Oct 12 2016 10:43PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
CruxWell if you do some research there's some random numbers you type into google and supposedly it's the cure to AIDS with a patent to prove it. If you've ever been on the deep web there's tons of cover ups that have been done in the past floating around. I'm not saying they would hide a scientific breakthrough but if you wanna look at coverups they've done like the Roswell crash in 1947 and then a few years later we're developing better military technology? I mean they could not cover it up. But I think if there's a profit to be made then the government would try and hold back and try to make a fortune before things get released. Unless it's some small private science company but the big ones that the government looks at you never know

So you know of exactly zero massive scientific breakthroughs the govt has covered up?

You say its easy to find but can't site a single example.
Oct 12 2016 10:51PM
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Crux
Posts: 31 - Karma: 33
californiagrownSo you know of exactly zero massive scientific breakthroughs the govt has covered up?

You say its easy to find but can't site a single example.


1946-1947 the U.S. Took scientists and military to the Antarctic to "test their weapons" in sub degree weather. The fact WWII had just ended and they run to the Antarctic is a but suspicios. They made many discoveries such as two hot spots in the middle of the Antarctic. They never released what their research showed and what they found there after studying in the Antarctic for over a year. They then just left and never disclosed what their research found and what else they found there, they just left.
Oct 13 2016 7:36AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
Crux1946-1947 the U.S. Took scientists and military to the Antarctic to "test their weapons" in sub degree weather. The fact WWII had just ended and they run to the Antarctic is a but suspicios. They made many discoveries such as two hot spots in the middle of the Antarctic. They never released what their research showed and what they found there after studying in the Antarctic for over a year. They then just left and never disclosed what their research found and what else they found there, they just left.


Oh lord. THIS is your example of the government making a massive scientific discovery and not telling us about it? Seriously? This is worse than mentioning the Philadelphia experiment hahahaha
Oct 13 2016 11:05AM
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Crux
Posts: 31 - Karma: 33
californiagrownOh lord. THIS is your example of the government making a massive scientific discovery and not telling us about it? Seriously? This is worse than mentioning the Philadelphia experiment hahahaha


If the government finding hot spots in a
Supposed to be frozen area and realizing the earth may not be solid to the core doesn't sounds interesting then Idk man
Oct 13 2016 2:13PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
CruxIf the government finding hot spots in a
Supposed to be frozen area and realizing the earth may not be solid to the core doesn't sounds interesting then Idk man


Wait what? It was common knowledge the earth wasnt solid to the core way before the late 1940s haha.

And do you know what volcanos and geothermal hot springs are? Cause Kennewick man even knew that lol.

My goodness!
Oct 13 2016 2:25PM
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Crux
Posts: 31 - Karma: 33
californiagrownWait what? It was common knowledge the earth wasnt solid to the core way before the late 1940s haha.

And do you know what volcanos and geothermal hot springs are? Cause Kennewick man even knew that lol.

My goodness!



I apologize I wasn't able to come up with new information that blew your mind!
Oct 13 2016 2:27PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
CruxI apologize I wasn't able to come up with new information that blew your mind!


You didn't come up with ANY new information haha... other than some research scientists found some hotspings in Antarctica back in the 40s lol.


What massive scientific leaps have been kept secret by the govt for a long time? You seemed very sure of this, and I'd be interested to learn of any examples :)
Oct 13 2016 2:43PM
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Crux
Posts: 31 - Karma: 33
californiagrownYou didn't come up with ANY new information haha... other than some research scientists found some hotspings in Antarctica back in the 40s lol.


What massive scientific leaps have been kept secret by the govt for a long time? You seemed very sure of this, and I'd be interested to learn of any examples :)


Seems to me you're just looking to prove me wrong and argue
Oct 13 2016 3:18PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
CruxSeems to me you're just looking to prove me wrong and argue


You made a very interesting claim. I'd like to hear occurrences that made you hold that belief.
Oct 13 2016 4:11PM
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miroz
Posts: 10333 - Karma: 3,945
CruxSeems to me you're just looking to prove me wrong and argue


Then stop claiming things you don't know about.
Oct 13 2016 6:12PM
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JGWI
Posts: 2842 - Karma: 7,812
behaha!

I can't tell if this is satire or not but non the less is rather funny.

https://creationsciencestudy.wordpress.com/2012/05/26/masturbation-is-murder-6/
Oct 13 2016 6:51PM
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