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Basically like half the ski industry is hung in the balance of this whole deal. K2 is the largest action sports equipment manufacturer in the world. Shit's going to change if this goes down. Hopefully for the better (i.e. people buying from small ski companies more)...
LucasI haven't really skied park in a couple years but you're talking to someone from the PNW while you live on the fucking east coast. I could throw some recent content you're way but my experience as a racer when I was younger tells me you still have no fucking clue what you're talking about.
Boy do I wish my penis was as big as yours! Let's brag about each other's mothers while we're at it.
Your experience as a racer tells me that you are a spandex-wearing flamer.
SconnieYou're good at making assumptions based off a fake internet personality. Talk to me when you are good at real skiing you stupid park rat.
LucasI haven't really skied park in a couple years but you're talking to someone from the PNW while you live on the fucking east coast. I could throw some recent content you're way but my experience as a racer when I was younger tells me you still have no fucking clue what you're talking about.
K2, Volkl, Marker, Marmot - it's all Jarden, I mean Newell. People probably get sentimental, but if one or more of those companies shut down, others would take their place. And if they were so good, they probably wouldn't have got acquired, or would've started buying up other companies. Wait, why doesn't Burton buy it all.
SFBv420.0bro its drilling holes and screwing in screws
just because those meager life skills are beyond your capabilities doesnt make it that hard
there are a shitload of people who understand the concept and are able to exucute this simple task
and there are a shitload of skiers who wouldn't put free markers on their skis
BECAUSE THEYRE ARE MUCH BETTER BINDINGS AVAILABLE that dont suck
i routinely mount NON INDEMNIFIED like old solis for people
usually for weed and/or booze
back to the chicken little 18 year old operating at a 12 1/2 yo level of emotional and intellectual development
So much hate for Marker, but I'm surprised you have so much hate for them as well. I hate my Dukes, but they are damn good for what they are made for. Not only the first hybrid alpine/AT binding worth putting on a pair of skis, but still better than anything the competition has come out with lately. Combine that with the Kingpin which I honestly believe will be a huge game changer after a couple tweaks over the versions. You can try to hate on Marker all you want, but it's totally unfair to just say "they suck" while totally ignoring the R&D that they have done in the binding world, changing the game, one could argue more than once.
Past few years I've been looking to replace my Dukes for my inbounds/slack set up and so far the only thing that comes close to doing the job the Dukes do is the Kingpin, but I'm not totally sold on them - yet. You don't have to like a product/company to appreciate what it's accomplished in the bigger picture. Or is that too mature of a mentality for this website?
DrailYou don't have to like a product/company to appreciate what it's accomplished in the bigger picture. Or is that too mature of a mentality for this website?
Yep. It's hip to hate on the big companies. Also, didn't you know that every skier on the planet has a shop in their garage with the ability to mount bindings?
Marker might not be the be-all end-all of binding manufacturers, but ignoring their impact on the ski industry at large is just fucking stupid.
I work in a ski shop, and it's gonna be a fucking fiasco this year if people can't get their bindings adjusted. The average 2-3 times a year skier doesn't know shit about bindings
SconnieFull tilts are basically bear traps. Felt like my foot was on fire when I tried them on.
It would be unfortunate to not have more of these cheap companies for people who can't afford skis like ON3P... but it would be great to get rid of shit brands like LINE, Full Tilt, and marker.
Please explain to me how full tilt is a shit company... They are literally some of the most quality boots you can get. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
CadenmcculloughPlease explain to me how full tilt is a shit company... They are literally some of the most quality boots you can get. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
You have got to be fucking kidding me.
The new decedent series literally fall apart when you put them on.
Probably the lowest quality product on the wall that costs more than $200.
CadenmcculloughPlease explain to me how full tilt is a shit company... They are literally some of the most quality boots you can get. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
cobra_commanderYou have got to be fucking kidding me.
The new decedent series literally fall apart when you put them on.
Probably the lowest quality product on the wall that costs more than $200.
Holy fuck, finally somebody who understands. Full Tilts are overpriced garbage.
GORILLAWALLACEthat's not an explanation you fucking retard try again
Horrible durability. Jah happy? Prove me wrong ,you slut.
SconnieHoly fuck, finally somebody who understands. Full Tilts are overpriced garbage.
Horrible durability. Jah happy? Prove me wrong ,you slut.
dude you need to chill out and take a step back for just a hot second.
Why are you hating on everything? Every single post you make is so fucking negative. Are you trying to be a skipster and hate on stuff because other people tend to like it? I don't understand where all your negativity comes from.
Also, stuff like this isn't about your personal opinion. You have to look at it from a larger point of view. We get it, you don't like these brands and you can have your reasons but do you understand the impact they have had on the sport as a whole? And do you realize what could happen if these brands are just gone?
Everyone shut up about k2 stuff being "made in China" and "fill tilts are shit" and "buy from core brands" and focus on the fact that some of the largest brands in our sport may disappear.
I predict: Shaun White takeover. Management buy-out. Patent Portfolio auction. Strategy-consulting firm transformation.
There must be a lot of people eying these companies that makes them worth more than zero: even the website traffic and customer lists (and supplier relationships) must be worth something.
My main concern would be if they outright shut down, then the price of ski gear would rise due to lowered supply.
If you were a competing firm, you might even want to buy in order to pilfer employers, and drive into the ground (and to stop others from buying)!
solid.sevendude you need to chill out and take a step back for just a hot second.
Why are you hating on everything? Every single post you make is so fucking negative. Are you trying to be a skipster and hate on stuff because other people tend to like it? I don't understand where all your negativity comes from.
Also, stuff like this isn't about your personal opinion. You have to look at it from a larger point of view. We get it, you don't like these brands and you can have your reasons but do you understand the impact they have had on the sport as a whole? And do you realize what could happen if these brands are just gone?
Honestly, I'm just so sick of NS's bullshit that I can't handle it in an appropriate manner anymore. Too many pussy 12 year olds on here.
TraverseMediaEveryone shut up about k2 stuff being "made in China" and "fill tilts are shit" and "buy from core brands" and focus on the fact that some of the largest brands in our sport may disappear.
Mr.BishopThe Hedge fund that owns all the companies that owns the companies that owns the companies that own K2 announced that they have considered the idea of thinking about shuttering under performing categories... one of which is Winter sports.
So basically nobody know shit, nothing is official and the rumour mill is in high gear. They did drop Seth Morrison, and they did let go of a number of employees.
We're doing our best to get more facts on the situation.
As much as it sucks...that's the way the world works. MONEY. If k2 doesn't make money they should shut that shit down or sell it off. If you owned a company that lost $ or was a bad investment like anything else you cut your losses and move on
SconnieHonestly, I'm just so sick of NS's bullshit that I can't handle it in an appropriate manner anymore. Too many pussy 12 year olds on here.
People like you are the bullshit. People like you are the ones that act like pussy 12 year olds.
Awesome people on NS wade through the wank that people like you bring so they can interact with the other awesome people on NS in much less whiny and immature ways than you do.
You should try it some time, it might put you in a better mood.
If things are really as bleak as this thread reads, I might be interested in buying line and full tilt if I can see the financials. Malcyzk, hit me up. Dude who mentioned over supply is likely right...there are lots of companies chasing the same coin right now but loads will likely go under in the next year or so as recession is around the corner. Not sure what the debt load looks like for K2 but I could help recapitalize. Would probably need to simplify the product line and reduce head count but that's how businesses work.
DrailSo much hate for Marker, but I'm surprised you have so much hate for them as well. I hate my Dukes, but they are damn good for what they are made for. Not only the first hybrid alpine/AT binding worth putting on a pair of skis, but still better than anything the competition has come out with lately. Combine that with the Kingpin which I honestly believe will be a huge game changer after a couple tweaks over the versions. You can try to hate on Marker all you want, but it's totally unfair to just say "they suck" while totally ignoring the R&D that they have done in the binding world, changing the game, one could argue more than once.
Past few years I've been looking to replace my Dukes for my inbounds/slack set up and so far the only thing that comes close to doing the job the Dukes do is the Kingpin, but I'm not totally sold on them - yet. You don't have to like a product/company to appreciate what it's accomplished in the bigger picture. Or is that too mature of a mentality for this website?
I owned a pair of Dukes for a season. I was quiet happy with em too. Sold em for cheap bought a pair of adrenalin 13s. better durability (especially the front toe) and less trouble with ice under/between the binding.
imo its pretty fair to give marker huge credits for developing the first SOLID frame touring binding! they kinda started this touring hype on fatties. But other companies made their homework and the guardian or adrenalins are better than the duke, baron...
I sold my adrenalin in spring and bought a beast 14. I needed sth a lil bit lighter with more walking comfort. Here in europe big online shops are selling them for ass cheap. I paid 250€ with shipping. Pretty hard to resist haha
johnwiecheckiIf things are really as bleak as this thread reads, I might be interested in buying line and full tilt if I can see the financials. Malcyzk, hit me up. Dude who mentioned over supply is likely right...there are lots of companies chasing the same coin right now but loads will likely go under in the next year or so as recession is around the corner. Not sure what the debt load looks like for K2 but I could help recapitalize. Would probably need to simplify the product line and reduce head count but that's how businesses work.
treebeardOk, something I just thought about that I haven't seen discussed.
If Marker goes down with this, all of their bindings IMMEDIATELY become NON-INDEMNIFIED. All of them.
With no company to back them, ski shops won't touch them. That's fucking HUGE, and affects nearly every skier from beginner to expert
SFBv420.0bro its drilling holes and screwing in screws
just because those meager life skills are beyond your capabilities doesnt make it that hard
there are a shitload of people who understand the concept and are able to exucute this simple task
and there are a shitload of skiers who wouldn't put free markers on their skis
BECAUSE THEYRE ARE MUCH BETTER BINDINGS AVAILABLE that dont suck
i routinely mount NON INDEMNIFIED like old solis for people
usually for weed and/or booze
back to the chicken little 18 year old operating at a 12 1/2 yo level of emotional and intellectual development
Treebeard is 100% right no shop would ever work on them because of insurance and its a bad idea for you to do it on your own. Not to mention marker makes bindings for tons of system skis and kids skis and those family/affordable type products are the core of the industry so marker just disappearing would be real bad for everyone
SconnieHorrible durability. Jah happy? Prove me wrong ,you slut.
not an explanation, you're still just whining like a bitch, but i'll bite.
markers have never broken for me. ever. long time user.
full tilts will last me 3-4 seasons or ~400-500 days. they don't need to last any longer than that.
line skis aren't durable. true story. why do you think they're so fucking cheap? but for me, skis last 2 seasons max whether they cost $400 or $1000 so why spend extra
also why is durability the deciding factor of a company being shit? lets say my full tilts only last 2 seasons and they're all fucked up... they still fit my foot better than anything else I've tried, they're as comfy as skate shoes, and they perform just fine for what I'm doing. totally worth my $400.
the only reason you're hating on every brand is because you're a pubescent hipster edgelord cunt. why don't you do a little research before you start spouting your uneducated diarhea all over the place
fa96imo its pretty fair to give marker huge credits for developing the first SOLID frame touring binding! they kinda started this touring hype on fatties. But other companies made their homework and the guardian or adrenalins are better than the duke, baron...
I may be wrong but if I'm not mistaken, fritschi and naxo paved the way for all of the frame touring bindings that came after. Everything that has come after has just gotten better and better and I would put dukes near the bottom of the list. Watched two pairs break, among the countless pairs of markers in general I've seen get fucked up. However, they do have their place in leading the pack for frame touring bindings at one point in time, just not anymore.
SconnieYour experience as a racer tells me that you are a spandex-wearing flamer.
One of the stupidest things you could possibly say. Racing is great for building all-around skills. If you look at the best big mountain skiers out there are ton of them have racing experience. Lots of high level park guys do to. Racing is the best thing you can do to really learn how to make a ski do what you want it to do.
Is Daron Rahlves a spandex wearing flamer? I would love to watch you try to tear apart a big line the way does. Jon Olsson was one of the best park skiers ever and he started out in racing. I could name tons of others. Classifying racers this way is absurd. What are you? 13?
CadenmcculloughPlease explain to me how full tilt is a shit company... They are literally some of the most quality boots you can get. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
I have talked tech with Dalbello and Nordica Reps. The material used in these boots is a lower quality, less supportive plastic that does not match up to more quality plastics for the dynamics needed for ski boots. Nordica uses some of the best plastics out there from my understanding, which translates to why the Dobermann series is so fucking successful in racing. Dalbello uses Nylon for their tongue material and a plastic with a "memory" where it will reset to its originally molded shape after flexed while Full Tilts just fold and warp. I can say from personal experience that I noticed this before talking to these reps and learning about this.
Full Tilts are objectively low quality boots but still work for the needs of people with less discerning tastes for power transmission (idk how the fuck Sethmo uses them).
SconnieHonestly, I'm just so sick of NS's bullshit that I can't handle it in an appropriate manner anymore. Too many pussy 12 year olds on here.
Im 18 too and straight up you just seem to either be trolling people who are more passionate about this sport than you, or you just don't give a fuck and want to enforce your uneducated opinion. Being wrong and calling people out for being right makes you look like a fuck, so chill the fuck out bro.
SessionActually.....Nordica discontinued their 3 piece line.
Real talk I will suck a dick to get another pair of Ace 3 Stars cuz my shells are shredded and the liners are 40% duct tape and inserts at this point. Best boots I have ever owned by far. I cannot say enough good things about these things.
dan4060One of the stupidest things you could possibly say. Racing is great for building all-around skills. If you look at the best big mountain skiers out there are ton of them have racing experience. Lots of high level park guys do to. Racing is the best thing you can do to really learn how to make a ski do what you want it to do.
Is Daron Rahlves a spandex wearing flamer? I would love to watch you try to tear apart a big line the way does. Jon Olsson was one of the best park skiers ever and he started out in racing. I could name tons of others. Classifying racers this way is absurd. What are you? 13?
Racing is legit and any self-respecting skier can recognize that. I honestly wish I raced when I was young instead of strictly skiing moguls because I would love to slay everything like my friend who raced instead of skiing moguls and hes a legit better skier than I am because of it. I will say that racers can be some of the biggest tools I've ever met on the hill though so the bad rep is warranted.. atleast in the EC.
On a side note, Ive been on NS a few times earlier this year, but I count this as my official return to NS for the winter and reading this cancer in the first 2 pages of me being logged in makes me sad because its classic NS... and I'm not sure if thats a good thing or not
K-Dot.I may be wrong but if I'm not mistaken, fritschi and naxo paved the way for all of the frame touring bindings that came after. Everything that has come after has just gotten better and better and I would put dukes near the bottom of the list. Watched two pairs break, among the countless pairs of markers in general I've seen get fucked up. However, they do have their place in leading the pack for frame touring bindings at one point in time, just not anymore.
Fritschis are so bad. Not saying they didn't pave the way, but those are some terrible bindings. They feel so flimsy.
The dukes were alright. Burly as hell but way to high off the ski and heavy. Guardians and Adrenalins are the way to go at the moment when it comes to AT binders.
Really stoked what KF skis has been working on, too bad it's only with fks. Hopefully they cater to sth2 and attacks
GORILLAWALLACEnot an explanation, you're still just whining like a bitch, but i'll bite.
markers have never broken for me. ever. long time user.
full tilts will last me 3-4 seasons or ~400-500 days. they don't need to last any longer than that.
line skis aren't durable. true story. why do you think they're so fucking cheap? but for me, skis last 2 seasons max whether they cost $400 or $1000 so why spend extra
also why is durability the deciding factor of a company being shit? lets say my full tilts only last 2 seasons and they're all fucked up... they still fit my foot better than anything else I've tried, they're as comfy as skate shoes, and they perform just fine for what I'm doing. totally worth my $400.
the only reason you're hating on every brand is because you're a pubescent hipster edgelord cunt. why don't you do a little research before you start spouting your uneducated diarhea all over the place
Fully agree with this. Also we all need to chill haha.
dan4060Racing is great for building all-around skills. If you look at the best big mountain skiers out there are ton of them have racing experience.
offtopic... but
Conventional racing sucks: it is stressful on the body and tiresome. There is also a lot of overhead to learn all the disciplines well. I think it has limited application at this point. I almost take pity of hardcore racers at this point, especially ones who think it is their ticket to heaven. A little bit in moderation perhaps, just as a novelty or to get you out of the park, and to realize how wholly unenjoyable it is. Skier-X on the other hand looks a bit more interesting..
I can see how racing is integral to skiing, and I think park skiing will end up that way too as people realize how dangerous it is, and how difficult it is to get to the top levels. BC skiing is also dangerous, and fat skis produce so much sluff, I am wondering if it is getting more dangerous as well.
I had a response to this and then I saw who wrote it.
Carved+Dangerousofftopic... but
Conventional racing sucks: it is stressful on the body and tiresome. There is also a lot of overhead to learn all the disciplines well. I think it has limited application at this point. I almost take pity of hardcore racers at this point, especially ones who think it is their ticket to heaven. A little bit in moderation perhaps, just as a novelty or to get you out of the park, and to realize how wholly unenjoyable it is. Skier-X on the other hand looks a bit more interesting..
I can see how racing is integral to skiing, and I think park skiing will end up that way too as people realize how dangerous it is, and how difficult it is to get to the top levels. BC skiing is also dangerous, and fat skis produce so much sluff, I am wondering if it is getting more dangerous as well.
parkplaygroundI have talked tech with Dalbello and Nordica Reps. The material used in these boots is a lower quality, less supportive plastic that does not match up to more quality plastics for the dynamics needed for ski boots.
Not trying to start another fight in this thread but no shit reps from Nordica and Diabello are gonna say Full Tilt's aren't good quality. I'll be my using Full tilt Twall's for a third season and hopefully even more after. I love them, they've held up great and still feel and work great. I've also had a pair of Nordica boots (granted just a cheap price point pair) and despised them it was like wearing a plastic box on my foot. you'll here everyone say this but different boots work for different people and it's all preference. Sorry if it's a little off topic but I felt it had to be said since so many people here are trashing Full Tilt and other boots.
parkplaygroundReal talk I will suck a dick to get another pair of Ace 3 Stars cuz my shells are shredded and the liners are 40% duct tape and inserts at this point. Best boots I have ever owned by far. I cannot say enough good things about these things.
What size, and do I get to pick whose dick you suck? Cause it most certainly will not be mine.
Young_pattyNot trying to start another fight in this thread but no shit reps from Nordica and Diabello are gonna say Full Tilt's aren't good quality. I'll be my using Full tilt Twall's for a third season and hopefully even more after. I love them, they've held up great and still feel and work great. I've also had a pair of Nordica boots (granted just a cheap price point pair) and despised them it was like wearing a plastic box on my foot. you'll here everyone say this but different boots work for different people and it's all preference. Sorry if it's a little off topic but I felt it had to be said since so many people here are trashing Full Tilt and other boots.
He's not wrong. FT does use cheaper, thinner plastic.
Young_pattyNot trying to start another fight in this thread but no shit reps from Nordica and Diabello are gonna say Full Tilt's aren't good quality. I'll be my using Full tilt Twall's for a third season and hopefully even more after. I love them, they've held up great and still feel and work great. I've also had a pair of Nordica boots (granted just a cheap price point pair) and despised them it was like wearing a plastic box on my foot. you'll here everyone say this but different boots work for different people and it's all preference. Sorry if it's a little off topic but I felt it had to be said since so many people here are trashing Full Tilt and other boots.
Like i said, they can still work for someone that likes lightweight, soft boots, but talking to reps from other brands about materials used in other market competition is more fact than persuasion.
JsNeagleWhat size, and do I get to pick whose dick you suck? Cause it most certainly will not be mine.
26.5 and it doesnt matter who it is im using teeth to end that asap i aint about that gay life personally, but you gotta do what you gotta do to get the goods
Im confused to why some large companies buy up winter sports brands knowing they wont nearly be as popular as something like adidas, nike, under armour, etc. (I know they make winter gear). Growth in the sports is surely huge but still not as much of the population are into them/can afford them, and it seems weird to make an investment on something like that. I totally get cutting your losses on something you fall flat on. Is it a case of just risk/reward and general investment/business stuff?.
DeebieSkeebiesIm confused to why some large companies buy up winter sports brands knowing they wont nearly be as popular as something like adidas, nike, under armour, etc. (I know they make winter gear). Growth in the sports is surely huge but still not as much of the population are into them/can afford them, and it seems weird to make an investment on something like that. I totally get cutting your losses on something you fall flat on. Is it a case of just risk/reward and general investment/business stuff?.
In Newell's case, they bought Jarden for Mr. Coffee, Holmes, Oster, Yankee Candle, etc aka stuff you can buy in Walmart, Target, etc. Jarden's winter sports division was just attached as part of the deal.
iggyskierIn Newell's case, they bought Jarden for Mr. Coffee, Holmes, Oster, Yankee Candle, etc aka stuff you can buy in Walmart, Target, etc. Jarden's winter sports division was just attached as part of the deal.
makes sense when broken down like that, was not aware of Jardens other brands. still a bummer to see this kind of stuff, it is certainly best to try and not let emotions get the best of us but reading Powder mags interview with andy mahre and how he just got dropped after having a little girl definitely makes you think about the other impacts these kinds of business decisions/deals have. I know that's how the world works but its hard to sit there and say (for me at least) its just business while some dudes family might be struggling to get by.
I grew up walking around ski shops looking for the newest k2 skis, watching k2 team videos and trying to ski my seth pistols like the man himself. If you cant figure out why you should show at least a scrap of respect for the brand and the people that have put time in there, you've got some homework to do. Start with this.
