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How far does calling "First ever..." go?

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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22708 - Karma: 76,635
I get it. First quad cork on skis. Sick. Progression. All that.

Good job Wacko. You're nuts.

But why do we say its a first?

I'm genuinely curious to debate this, because frankly as soon as you're doing that much spinning and flipping, its all about set the shit out of it - lock into a position - then stomp at the last possible second.

Frank Bare did a quad back in '83.

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/740232/Frank-Bare-quadruple-flip-on-skis-1983

This one was off-axis, that one was on-axis. One guy kept his body straight one kept his body tucked. Both were just locked into a single position spinning, flipping and praying to god.

So - what makes it a first when its simply slightly off-axis? Is a few degrees of rotation different worth calling first?

Honestly interested in opinions on this, not trying to start shit. So please simply share your thoughts, I don't want to talk about rotations and style at all here.
Sep 13 2016 11:11PM
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nhskier1414
Posts: 107 - Karma: 1,363
Both are cool, I was hyped to see someone throw a quad on a more modern setup.
Sep 13 2016 11:21PM
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270on420out
Posts: 7516 - Karma: 51,166
Frank Bare=Aerials

/thread
Sep 13 2016 11:23PM
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Mingg
Posts: 13992 - Karma: 49,657
In this case, I think it's different and that saying Jackson is the first to land a quad is rather fitting.

The fundamentals of skiing, hitting a jump, flipping, spinning etc. is essentially the same but it's also a different trick done by a different type of skier on a different type of jump. This is the first quad freeskiing has ever seen on a park jump by a freeskier.
Sep 13 2016 11:42PM
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brend
Posts: 779 - Karma: 3,608
It is so wack when people claim "first ever (enter trick) by (enter age) year old". Nobody gives a fuck
Sep 13 2016 11:44PM
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a_burger
Posts: 5240 - Karma: 20,807
Frank Bare did the first quad, wacko did the first quad cork

back fulls/on axis spin flip things are kinda wierd and so different from corks I would say that a quad cork is still a first, just a different kind

sorry snowboarding but we've been doing the whole spin to win thing for a lot longer
Sep 13 2016 11:50PM
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MikeWeinerONE
Posts: 501 - Karma: 1,215
Was not the first quad done on skis. To each their own. No bragging rights because quads have been done before Jackson was born. Was pretty sick though, and Wacko is the man, but this wasn't the first. Off-axis, on-axis, its just as difficult.
Sep 13 2016 11:58PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22708 - Karma: 76,635
MinggIn this case, I think it's different and that saying Jackson is the first to land a quad is rather fitting.

The fundamentals of skiing, hitting a jump, flipping, spinning etc. is essentially the same but it's also a different trick done by a different type of skier on a different type of jump. This is the first quad freeskiing has ever seen on a park jump by a freeskier.


MikeWeinerONEWas not the first quad done on skis. To each their own. No bragging rights because quads have been done before Jackson was born. Was pretty sick though, and Wacko is the man, but this wasn't the first. Off-axis, on-axis, its just as difficult.


@Mingg - I think @MikeWeinerONE kind of hit it here. Its not more difficult if the axis is a bit off... and freeskiing is just skiing. So a Skier did a quad in '83 and another did one in 2016. You could definitely say its dope that he's pushing corks... but calling it a first is loose. Yes, its the first cork.... but at a certain point its all flips and spins.

I mean one of the problems with massive rotation corked spins is that the skier has to maintain one body position, which is a tucked up ball. The straight over flips were about the flat out body. Even the argument of Aerials is made moot here because the key point to aerials was "form" meaning that each athlete maintained the exact same body position. You were literally scored on how well you did it.

Freeskiing got away from that in the lower rotation flips, but is naturally gravitating back to it because you simply can not change your body position in this level of rotation/flip.
Sep 14 2016 12:39AM
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Holte
Posts: 10742 - Karma: 7,819
The only way I'm ever gonna be the first to land a trick is if we get real, real specific. So bring on the semantics and minuitiae I say!
Sep 14 2016 12:44AM
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Mingg
Posts: 13992 - Karma: 49,657
Mr.Bishop@Mingg - I think @MikeWeinerONE kind of hit it here. Its not more difficult if the axis is a bit off... and freeskiing is just skiing. So a Skier did a quad in '83 and another did one in 2016. You could definitely say its dope that he's pushing corks... but calling it a first is loose. Yes, its the first cork.... but at a certain point its all flips and spins.

I mean one of the problems with massive rotation corked spins is that the skier has to maintain one body position, which is a tucked up ball. The straight over flips were about the flat out body. Even the argument of Aerials is made moot here because the key point to aerials was "form" meaning that each athlete maintained the exact same body position. You were literally scored on how well you did it.

Freeskiing got away from that in the lower rotation flips, but is naturally gravitating back to it because you simply can not change your body position in this level of rotation/flip.


Yeah, there's an argument for both sides! I don't think either is anymore correct than the other. I just know for me, when I think of it in terms of freeskiing, wacko will have been the first to do a quad. But obviously homie from way back when did the first quad. They're just two variations of quads and it's really up to interpretation!
Sep 14 2016 12:59AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22708 - Karma: 76,635
MinggYeah, there's an argument for both sides! I don't think either is anymore correct than the other. I just know for me, when I think of it in terms of freeskiing, wacko will have been the first to do a quad. But obviously homie from way back when did the first quad. They're just two variations of quads and it's really up to interpretation!


So how do we interpret it? Does a few degrees of cork negate the past?
Sep 14 2016 1:14AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22708 - Karma: 76,635
HolteThe only way I'm ever gonna be the first to land a trick is if we get real, real specific. So bring on the semantics and minuitiae I say!


I call the first ever Mr.Bishop.

Its a regular slide to forwards on a rail with an exact 83 degree angle on the skis and arms which travel in a circular rotation not exceeding a 2' circumference.
Sep 14 2016 1:20AM
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Mingg
Posts: 13992 - Karma: 49,657
Mr.BishopSo how do we interpret it? Does a few degrees of cork negate the past?


Nope. Definitely not. Frank Bare technically did the first quad in skiing. Jackson did the first quad cork in freeskiing.

I mean look at A Hall- people have done sw triples before but he's being credited with the first sw trip 16. So while others have done triples, he did this specific triple first. You can argue the same logic can be used with Frank and Jackson.

It just depends on what your perspective is though and which angle you want to look at it from. It's pretty open and no two people have to look at it the same
Sep 14 2016 1:31AM
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skeetskeet9000
Posts: 181 - Karma: 365
MinggNope. Definitely not. Frank Bare technically did the first quad in skiing. Jackson did the first quad cork in freeskiing.

I mean look at A Hall- people have done sw triples before but he's being credited with the first sw trip 16. So while others have done triples, he did this specific triple first. You can argue the same logic can be used with Frank and Jackson.

It just depends on what your perspective is though and which angle you want to look at it from. It's pretty open and no two people have to look at it the same


Sw triple 18...
Sep 14 2016 2:03AM
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Chubz.
Posts: 13918 - Karma: 25,664
Mr.BishopSo a Skier did a quad in '83 and another did one in 2016.

Just some food for though here, Doug.
2016...1983....

2016-1983=33

33=arsenic

Arsenic=TallTDan

TallTDan=stopskiing

Dan forced wacko to do it for the glory of Instagram memes. Dan knew if the first to do it wasn't one of the comp jocks the entire free ski scene would lose their shit, so then he made a nonchalant meme about wacko stomping the quad, (with ease) WITH STYLE. Which also brought more traffic to new schoolers to talk about this, saving the forums as we know it.

Not all heroes wear capes..in this case, just a 6xl t shirt whiter than the coke you snorted before opening up your mind into the madness that is freeskiing in 2016.


#conspiraski
Sep 14 2016 2:42AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22708 - Karma: 76,635
Chubz.Just some food for though here, Doug.
2016...1983....

2016-1983=33

33=arsenic

Arsenic=TallTDan

TallTDan=stopskiing

Dan forced wacko to do it for the glory of Instagram memes. Dan knew if the first to do it wasn't one of the comp jocks the entire free ski scene would lose their shit, so then he made a nonchalant meme about wacko stomping the quad, (with ease) WITH STYLE. Which also brought more traffic to new schoolers to talk about this, saving the forums as we know it.

Not all heroes wear capes..in this case, just a 6xl t shirt whiter than the coke you snorted before opening up your mind into the madness that is freeskiing in 2016.


#conspiraski


I'd argue on the definition of style...

but daaaamn... that's some illuminati shit.
Sep 14 2016 2:51AM
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McLS
Posts: 1985 - Karma: 6,454
I don't get NS anymore, shit has changed. Wacko just landed the most anticipated, hyped/hated trick in freeskiing for the past 3-4 years and y'all arguing about if he can call it a first or not. He landed a fucking quad :O whilst I hope this doesnt mean even more spin to win in comps, this is rad af. Comon NS gimme some hype here
Sep 14 2016 3:22AM
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 9346 - Karma: 61,390
i thought it was accepted that if you say "quad 16" or "double 12" that you meant cork. and his was the first quad cork. obviously quad flips have been done but as long as we're making distinctions about this all, it seems fairly straightforward to say this was the first quad [cork] on skis
Sep 14 2016 8:42AM
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TripleXLHoodies
Posts: 348 - Karma: 1,280
First switch quad, now its a first
Sep 14 2016 8:43AM
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SammyDubz
Posts: 2168 - Karma: 7,222
Two completely different sects of skiing I would say? Sure, Frank did the first quad on skis; but I think this community is a completely different one, therefore, it's the first quad for newschool freeskiing?

We're all thinking WAY too far into this.
Sep 14 2016 9:18AM
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CorruptArmada
Posts: 272 - Karma: 549
Chubz.Just some food for though here, Doug.
2016...1983....

2016-1983=33

33=arsenic

Arsenic=TallTDan

TallTDan=stopskiing

Dan forced wacko to do it for the glory of Instagram memes. Dan knew if the first to do it wasn't one of the comp jocks the entire free ski scene would lose their shit, so then he made a nonchalant meme about wacko stomping the quad, (with ease) WITH STYLE. Which also brought more traffic to new schoolers to talk about this, saving the forums as we know it.

Not all heroes wear capes..in this case, just a 6xl t shirt whiter than the coke you snorted before opening up your mind into the madness that is freeskiing in 2016.


#conspiraski


Mr.BishopI'd argue on the definition of style...

but daaaamn... that's some illuminati shit.



This makes me question everything...

How do we even know for sure it was Wacko? Possibly TallTDan?
Sep 14 2016 9:27AM
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chicknfriedsteak
Posts: 984 - Karma: 4,692
Arials and freestyle/newschooling are too different disiplines of skiing. It's like comparing gymnastics to free running or olympic diving to cliff jumping. They are similar in nature, but they are still different sports
Sep 14 2016 10:13AM
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Ranch
Posts: 742 - Karma: 1,030
Bare would have fucking ate shit if he didn't land that with the skin tight suit and no helmet.
Sep 14 2016 10:25AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22708 - Karma: 76,635
chicknfriedsteakArials and freestyle/newschooling are too different disiplines of skiing. It's like comparing gymnastics to free running or olympic diving to cliff jumping. They are similar in nature, but they are still different sports


I get what you're saying but you went way too far with that. Freestyle and Newschool Freestyle (which is where the name Newschoolers came from) are in no way as different as gymnastics and free running.

It would be more like comparing rhythmic gymnastics to regular gymnastics.

I mean its all skiing... and Aerials is closer to big air than big air would be to skiing chutes in Alaska, no?

The only difference is whether you have a straight body or you're tucked with your hand near your skis.
Sep 14 2016 10:38AM
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Mingg
Posts: 13992 - Karma: 49,657
chicknfriedsteakArials and freestyle/newschooling are too different disiplines of skiing. It's like comparing gymnastics to free running or olympic diving to cliff jumping. They are similar in nature, but they are still different sports


Yup. Exactly how I see it.
Sep 14 2016 10:58AM
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chicknfriedsteak
Posts: 984 - Karma: 4,692
Mr.BishopI get what you're saying but you went way too far with that. Freestyle and Newschool Freestyle (which is where the name Newschoolers came from) are in no way as different as gymnastics and free running.

It would be more like comparing rhythmic gymnastics to regular gymnastics.

I mean its all skiing... and Aerials is closer to big air than big air would be to skiing chutes in Alaska, no?

The only difference is whether you have a straight body or you're tucked with your hand near your skis.


I'll stick to my analogy, in gymnastics there are lots of rules and proper form is everything, freerunning(not talking about parkour) takes many of the same types of moves and tricks to a less controlled setting and allows for far more creativity and places a larger emphasis on interacting with your environment. I see arials and freestyle the same way. So yes you can say that this is not the first quad in skiing, but it's still the first quad for our sport.

Either way both Frank and Wacko are nuts and deserve massive respect.
Sep 14 2016 11:20AM
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FigNewton
Posts: 2459 - Karma: 5,783
Wacko did not do the first quad on skis, but he did do the first quad on a park jump. And in the discipline of slopestyle skiing, it was a first.

All ski jumping events (slope, aerials, big air, moguls, etc) have different sizes and different types of jumps and there is a scale of what is possible/will be possible within these disciplines. I don't find them easily comparable.
Sep 14 2016 11:23AM
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 9346 - Karma: 61,390
definitely the first quad cork in skiing. even more definitely the first SWITCH quad cork in skiing. this really isnt that complicated
Sep 14 2016 11:36AM
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tris10radeka
Posts: 267 - Karma: 665
First quad cork maybe not first quad flip. A cork is off axis unlike frank bare's like you said so it's the first quad CORK not flip. Definitely first switch too
Sep 14 2016 11:53AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22708 - Karma: 76,635
Titsandwich11even more definitely the first SWITCH quad cork in skiing. this really isnt that complicated


Hah.... Yeah that basically shuts down my point right there.

This entire thing should have been titled "First ever SWITCH quad cork in skiing" and boom you've got yourself a difference.

I'd say the debate still stands because we have an overwhelming ability as skiers to pretend like the past didn't happen... but in this instance /thread.
Sep 14 2016 12:24PM
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clorox
Posts: 1728 - Karma: 4,863
MikeWeinerONEWas not the first quad done on skis. To each their own. No bragging rights because quads have been done before Jackson was born. Was pretty sick though, and Wacko is the man, but this wasn't the first. Off-axis, on-axis, its just as difficult.


Not sure about off axis being just as easy as invert jumps. Straight over spinning flips are significantly easier than off axis, especially with more flips. Look at women's freeskiing. Like 1 girl has landed a double cork, yet plenty of women do dubs on invert jumps. Also, Jackson was low key af about it, and didn't really brag.
Sep 14 2016 1:37PM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 37615 - Karma: 122,712
We're all getting too hung up on the whole "first ever X done by Y" now, which leads to frame by frame analysis of tricks like this (from people who can barely land off-axis tricks), which leads to a rabbit hole of arguments and eventually name calling because someone gets upset they have disagreements. Not that i dont think it shouldnt be allowed, but cant we all just agree it was nutty, realize skiing is at insane levels now, and move on?

Why do we gotta pick everything apart to the damn molecular level on this site?
Sep 14 2016 3:08PM
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Mingg
Posts: 13992 - Karma: 49,657
DeebieSkeebiesWhy do we gotta pick everything apart to the damn molecular level on this site?


Cause skiing is super serious ya know
Sep 14 2016 3:20PM
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MNSkiers
Posts: 1154 - Karma: 7,533
Wacko did it without going completely up-side-down. More of a modern park trick rather than an aerials trick. First for freeski
Sep 14 2016 3:31PM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5988 - Karma: 3,613
Frank Bare did the 1st ever quad D-spin.

Frank Bare did the 1st ever back country quad.

Freestyle in 1983 was probably more chill that newschool in 2016.

Pencil was Frank's version of style just like robot-lock mute is Bobby Brown's.

Frank Bare is your father.
Sep 14 2016 3:32PM
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marrows
Posts: 399 - Karma: 656
DeebieSkeebiesWe're all getting too hung up on the whole "first ever X done by Y" now, which leads to frame by frame analysis of tricks like this (from people who can barely land off-axis tricks), which leads to a rabbit hole of arguments and eventually name calling because someone gets upset they have disagreements. Not that i dont think it shouldnt be allowed, but cant we all just agree it was nutty, realize skiing is at insane levels now, and move on?

Why do we gotta pick everything apart to the damn molecular level on this site?


hey i'll have you know i can barely land on axis tricks aswell
Sep 14 2016 3:37PM
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RZcrew
Posts: 366 - Karma: 2,211
he took off backwards... id say that makes it a first
Sep 14 2016 3:44PM
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Newschoolers55
Posts: 851 - Karma: 4,794
Frank did a first quad on skis for sure. He had skis on his feet and he did four flips nothing on that.
Wacko did a first quad cork and first switch quad on skis, props to him thats crazy. And if someone says that wacko did first quad on freeskiing I wanna ask how you can define freeskiing from other skiing, cmon Its all just sliding down the mountain with 2 wooden planks attached to your feet. there is no "freeskiing", Its all the same skiing. Like JLev says, Its just skiing
Sep 14 2016 3:57PM
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HaydenWrong
Posts: 986 - Karma: 2,165
Freeskiing imo is being able to have your own opinion on everything related to that sport an industry thats why i love it





RULE 1.) There are no rules
Sep 14 2016 4:04PM
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Newschoolers55
Posts: 851 - Karma: 4,794
Glansbergin907Freeskiing imo is being able to have your own opinion on everything related to that sport an industry thats why i love it





RULE 1.) There are no rules


This is the greatest definition of freeskiing ive ever heard. Usually Its like "when you do tricks on your skis Its freeskiing" but I think thats bs, but your definition is really good I think
Sep 14 2016 4:13PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51803 - Karma: 164,295
I mean in the newschool style of skiing, the nice cork with a grab, that would be a first.

Idk. I don't really see this as a big deal honestly.
Sep 14 2016 4:18PM
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crazy_karl
Posts: 774 - Karma: 5,046
Mr.Bishopbecause frankly

Frank Bare did a quad back in '83.


Pun intended?
Sep 14 2016 5:35PM
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Casey
Posts: 7887 - Karma: 24,860
Ok I was impressed for 12 whole non jaded seconds. Now I want to see 5 corks. DANCE MONKEY!
Sep 14 2016 5:43PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22708 - Karma: 76,635
crazy_karlbecause frankly

Frank Bare did a quad back in '83.


Pun intended?


Not intended but nice fucking bonus. Didn't even notice that. ;)
Sep 14 2016 8:58PM
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JLev
Posts: 872 - Karma: 4,795
I'm first to write this on this thread
Sep 14 2016 10:02PM
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Rennis_Deynolds
Posts: 2739 - Karma: 19,059
brendIt is so wack when people claim "first ever (enter trick) by (enter age) year old". Nobody gives a fuck


first ever "trip backflip dab" by "47"year old

nice try but i think people would give a fuck
Sep 14 2016 10:02PM
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K-Dot.
Posts: 3749 - Karma: 7,839
JLevI'm first to write this on this thread


But did you do it with style
Sep 14 2016 10:13PM
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DominatorJacques
Posts: 11234 - Karma: 76,358
You can call this a "first" if you have a sense of humor!



https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/645672/3600-on-skis-
Sep 14 2016 10:56PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,180
I don't care if it's a first or not, it's still mind blowing.
Sep 14 2016 11:27PM
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DominatorJacques
Posts: 11234 - Karma: 76,358
JAHpowI don't care if it's a first or not, it's still mind blowing.


Agree, but the guy doing the triple front is better! I guess it's defiantly not a first though.
Sep 14 2016 11:50PM
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