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commented this on the WCS thread and video and received some rebuttal. I am pretty sure this is the first ever double with 540 degrees of rotation at 5:20 in here ( https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/829994/WCS10--Team-Syrup-Sippers?c=11 ) in the Team Syrup Sippers edit. Some people are saying its an underflippy rotation and I just thought I would open it up here to figure it out because my brain is currently hurting from this rotation.
eheathI explained this earlier but you clearly didn't reach my post. A rodeo 5 is a 360 degree flip and a 180 degree rotation, thats why its a rodeo 540 and not rodeo 180.
It's just not possible to do two FLIPS and spin less than 720. True flat spins are a completely different story, but when you do two flips, IE deans rodeo 360 to opposite underflip 540 isnt a dub 5. If anything thing is a dub 9 revert or something like that, because he does a 900 just 360 one way and 540 the other way.
I wouldnt consider Dean's trick a dub rodeo but im not gonna argue the difference between the two. To me its a dub 5..idk. its fucked.
Chubz.I wouldnt consider Dean's trick a dub rodeo but im not gonna argue the difference between the two. To me its a dub 5..idk. its fucked.
He literally flips twice. First one is a rodeo 3 second is an under flip 5. Or whatever you wanna call those two tricks, it's two separate rotations which is why people are so confused, dubs flips are usually the same axis/rotation and when someone does two different flips people think he magically does 540 degrees of spin with more than two rotations.
eheathI explained this earlier but you clearly didn't reach my post. A rodeo 5 is a 360 degree flip and a 180 degree rotation, thats why its a rodeo 540 and not rodeo 180.
It's just not possible to do two FLIPS and spin less than 720. True flat spins are a completely different story, but when you do two flips, IE deans rodeo 360 to opposite underflip 540 isnt a dub 5. If anything thing is a dub 9 revert or something like that, because he does a 900 just 360 one way and 540 the other way.
Yeah but it's not like hes spinning right for the second flip. Whatever that second flip/rotation is it's clearly spun the same way as the first flip. If he flipped to the left for the first flip and then to the right for the next one that would look/be way crazier to do or even imagine than any sort of dub 540.
I just feel any sort of in air pretzel would be really noticeable whereas in this double it seems he just stops rotating all together as opposed to reverting or doing an in air pretzel
eheathBut he rotated at least 720 degrees, he did two flips.
In b4 everyone tells me I'm wrong. It's fucking science, a rodeo 5 is a flip and a 180, 360 degree flip plus 180 spin = 540 degrees of rotation. He does two flips, just because spins the opposite way he sets doesn't subtract a complete 180 degrees of rotation from the trick.
That being said, this trick is fucking sick and dean killed it so hard at wcs. I'm not entirely sure what to call this trick, but double flip 540 doesn't make any sense, at all.
2:40 shows a good example of the difference between a 360 and 180.
I'm not going to pretend I have a degree in physics, but I do know your head and feet can do different rotations than each other. ex) When people do 540's, most people after completing the 360 keep their head looking downhill over their shoulder ( so that their feet did a 540 but technically their head did a 360).
Same principle with a 180. After doing a 180 in the air with your feet, you can turn a blind eye to downhill and continue to rotate your head around to the other shoulder (so your feet did a 180 but your head did a 360).
If we can agree that feet and the head can do different degrees of rotation from each other, than its important which variable (feet or head) we use to define the trick.
I think its easier/ makes sense to use the feet because its easier to see. A skier is either going to land forwards or backwards (most of the time).
The guy doing this trick did a 720 with his head, but a 540 with his feet. SO I WOULD CALL IT A DUB 540--Agreeing with you that you can't do 2 flips without (a part of your body) doing a 720.
G_Koke2:40 shows a good example of the difference between a 360 and 180.
I'm not going to pretend I have a degree in physics, but I do know your head and feet can do different rotations than each other. ex) When people do 540's, most people after completing the 360 keep their head looking downhill over their shoulder ( so that their feet did a 540 but technically their head did a 360).
Same principle with a 180. After doing a 180 in the air with your feet, you can turn a blind eye to downhill and continue to rotate your head around to the other shoulder (so your feet did a 180 but your head did a 360).
If we can agree that feet and the head can do different degrees of rotation from each other, than its important which variable (feet or head) we use to define the trick.
I think its easier/ makes sense to use the feet because its easier to see. A skier is either going to land forwards or backwards (most of the time).
The guy doing this trick did a 720 with his head, but a 540 with his feet. SO I WOULD CALL IT A DUB 540--Agreeing with you that you can't do 2 flips without (a part of your body) doing a 720.
eheathHe literally flips twice. First one is a rodeo 3 second is an under flip 5. Or whatever you wanna call those two tricks, it's two separate rotations which is why people are so confused, dubs flips are usually the same axis/rotation and when someone does two different flips people think he magically does 540 degrees of spin with more than two rotations.
Bruh since he spun 360 one way and 540 the other way it's dub -180. Solved it
hey guys. i hope your enjoying the trick regardless of what you want to call it. I had issues naming this as well, its a tough one seeing as eheath is absolutely right when it comes to a double flip rotation must have at least 720 degrees. I was just calling it a "end reverse kang." seeing as i am doing a "left" flat 3 in the first trick and coming back to forward before initiating the second rotation to the right, it is a kang just all wacked out.
with some of the more "true" pretzel tricks i've done, i've been labeling as "switch dub rodeo 5" and what not. but it shouldn't be. it should be labeled "switch left rodeo 5- right cork 7".
if anyone wants a precise explanation on whats happening with the physics here when it comes to bio mechanics, hit me up on FB and i can send some diagrams and make some clear explanations on how "pretzeling" works with which types of rotations.
berkydhey guys. i hope your enjoying the trick regardless of what you want to call it. I had issues naming this as well, its a tough one seeing as eheath is absolutely right when it comes to a double flip rotation must have at least 720 degrees. I was just calling it a "end reverse kang." seeing as i am doing a "left" flat 3 in the first trick and coming back to forward before initiating the second rotation to the right, it is a kang just all wacked out.
with some of the more "true" pretzel tricks i've done, i've been labeling as "switch dub rodeo 5" and what not. but it shouldn't be. it should be labeled "switch left rodeo 5- right cork 7".
if anyone wants a precise explanation on whats happening with the physics here when it comes to bio mechanics, hit me up on FB and i can send some diagrams and make some clear explanations on how "pretzeling" works with which types of rotations.
Flat 3 + underflip 5 = wonky dub 9. I thought it was a flat 1 at first too, but I compared it to Henrik's and Berk doesn't stall it out in the same way at all. Here's the X Games edit with the flat 1 (if someone can figure out how to embed this one that would be tight; I can't get it to work and I know how to embed on here). http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:14643836
berkydhey guys. i hope your enjoying the trick regardless of what you want to call it. I had issues naming this as well, its a tough one seeing as eheath is absolutely right when it comes to a double flip rotation must have at least 720 degrees. I was just calling it a "end reverse kang." seeing as i am doing a "left" flat 3 in the first trick and coming back to forward before initiating the second rotation to the right, it is a kang just all wacked out.
with some of the more "true" pretzel tricks i've done, i've been labeling as "switch dub rodeo 5" and what not. but it shouldn't be. it should be labeled "switch left rodeo 5- right cork 7".
if anyone wants a precise explanation on whats happening with the physics here when it comes to bio mechanics, hit me up on FB and i can send some diagrams and make some clear explanations on how "pretzeling" works with which types of rotations.
thanks for the interest everyone
Wow as the OP and someone who really wanted to believe that this was a double 5, I can't really argue with the real OP-the person who did it. Still an unbelievable tight axis to do on that big of a jump. Respect for changing the way we think about dubs...that switch dub misty 10 that you did in that edit/in your instagram I think was the first one I've ever seen. I know for a fact no one else is doing that 'eddy flip' either. Keep doing your thing.
I guess I have to come to grips with the fact that EHeath really alway is right.
Having said that I think if someone did stall out like Dollo in his flat 180...a true dub flat 5 would be possible. Also I think with people get more and more comfortable with cork 1s a double cork or at least wobble 5 could happen
thebusiness19Having said that I think if someone did stall out like Dollo in his flat 180...a true dub flat 5 would be possible. Also I think with people get more and more comfortable with cork 1s a double cork or at least wobble 5 could happen
Honestly idk if its possible. To get a dub around you have to have some pretty big inertia so to stop that and stall out is just not possible in my mind
People, what are YouTube thinking of? HE flips twice, no one can say anything else, a flip is a 360... And since he doesn't land the same way as he went of the jump he must have done a 180 too...
That means 360+360(flipdegrees)+180(spindegrees) = 900...
Ill admit IT look really cool and i haven't Seen that trick before, but it's a 900.. Sorry to burst your buble here.
MKHStadheimPeople, what are YouTube thinking of? HE flips twice, no one can say anything else, a flip is a 360... And since he doesn't land the same way as he went of the jump he must have done a 180 too...
That means 360+360(flipdegrees)+180(spindegrees) = 900...
Ill admit IT look really cool and i haven't Seen that trick before, but it's a 900.. Sorry to burst your buble here.
You are drunk. But so am I! Drunk opinions are the best opinions.
yup. but what he did wasn't a flat spin. I dont care that he said it's a flat spin, it's not. you don't go inverted in a flat spin. pretty much 90% of what people call flat 3's are wackflips.
The way I see it, its a dub 5.
He only spins 540 degrees right? stay with me.
When someone does a dub ten, you can see where they are pointed straight downhill three separate times, completing a full 1080. We don't call it a dub 1800. Why would we start doing that with this trick?
Yes they flip twice, bud we distinguish that by saying "dub" at the beginning of the name of the trick.
Saying "cork" or "rodeo" is only the type of rotation, and the number that follows is the amount of rotation.
Here, Dean does two flips=dub
He spins 540=dub 540.
This might make no sense to you, but it does to me so blow me
levi.The way I see it, its a dub 5.
He only spins 540 degrees right? stay with me.
When someone does a dub ten, you can see where they are pointed straight downhill three separate times, completing a full 1080. We don't call it a dub 1800. Why would we start doing that with this trick?
Yes they flip twice, bud we distinguish that by saying "dub" at the beginning of the name of the trick.
Saying "cork" or "rodeo" is only the type of rotation, and the number that follows is the amount of rotation.
Here, Dean does two flips=dub
He spins 540=dub 540.
This might make no sense to you, but it does to me so blow me
A dub 10 is a corked rotation, not a flip rotation, so it's 3 rotations.
I'll explain this one more time since none of you seem to be reading the thread:
A rodeo 5 is a flip and 180 degree spin, it's not called a rodeo 180, it's called a rodeo 540 because the flip is 360 degrees of rotation + 180 spin. He trick dean does is two inverts, so his trick is at least a 720.
MikeWeinerONEA flip is a rotation. So 2 flips equals 720 plus.
/end thread
eheathA dub 10 is a corked rotation, not a flip rotation, so it's 3 rotations.
I'll explain this one more time since none of you seem to be reading the thread:
A rodeo 5 is a flip and 180 degree spin, it's not called a rodeo 180, it's called a rodeo 540 because the flip is 360 degrees of rotation + 180 spin. He trick dean does is two inverts, so his trick is at least a 720.
danbrownhe does two fucking flips how do you morons still think its a 540
The trick in question here is definitely a dub 9, and this logic works most of the time, but only counting flips and spins leaves out the third basic axis, the loop, which seems important since these tricks occur in three dimensions. Should that be counted too? I think the basic premise that our tricks are basically combinations of the three basic axes is a good mental model, but counting flips as spins seems to break down at times. What if Berkovich actually did do a flat 3 to flat 1? What would you and Mr Heath call that? Would you not consider it a dub anymore? I'm really curious.
p-foWhat if Berkovich actually did do a flat 3 to flat 1? What would you and Mr Heath call that? Would you not consider it a dub anymore? I'm really curious.
I mean, if someone did a trick where they didn't flip but did true flat spins, I'd call it as I see it, but dean's trick is clearly two flips and if people think it's not two flips they're delusional.
eheathI mean, if someone did a trick where they didn't flip but did true flat spins, I'd call it as I see it, but dean's trick is clearly two flips and if people think it's not two flips they're delusional.
Nobody had said that there we not two flips anywhere in this thread.
Take the original trick everyone was talking about aside for a minute. (which was sick!)
I have read this entire thread several times because I fell I missing something here. I don't understand Heaths argument. If I understand you correctly you are stating that both the rotation (spin) and flip (inversion) make up the total number of the trick? Is that what your saying? I know there is a gray area when it comes to flats and corks.
Example Bobby Browns Switch Dub Misty 1440 from a few years ago
Switch - commin in backwards
Dub - Number of inversions
Misty - type of inversion
1440 - Number of rotations
By Eheaths logic this would be a Switch 2160
Henrik Harlaut Nose butter triple cork 1620
Nose Butter - take off style
Triple- number of inversions
Cork - type of inversion
1260 number of rotations
By Eheaths logic this trick would Nose butter 2700
"eheath: But he rotated at least 720 degrees, he did two flips"
"eheath: In b4 everyone tells me I'm wrong. It's fucking science, a rodeo 5 is a flip and a 180, 360 degree flip plus 180 spin = 540 degrees of rotation. He does two flips, just because spins the opposite way he sets doesn't subtract a complete 180 degrees of rotation from the trick." -
NO thats not a rodeo 540, thats a backflip 180!!!!!!!!!!
I really want to bitch about this more, but this is NS and no one listens. So next year the NS is helping with the Dew Tour please inform the TV announcers to call the rotation of the trick as the total number y and x axis rotations. So we can all change what we been calling tricks for the past 20 years.
eheathA dub 10 is a corked rotation, not a flip rotation, so it's 3 rotations.
I'll explain this one more time since none of you seem to be reading the thread:
A rodeo 5 is a flip and 180 degree spin, it's not called a rodeo 180, it's called a rodeo 540 because the flip is 360 degrees of rotation + 180 spin. He trick dean does is two inverts, so his trick is at least a 720.
Go watch someone do a rodeo 9. Is it a rodeo flip followed by a 540? No. It's a 900 on the rodeo axis. Try to open your mind and look at things from a different point of view, assface
eheathA dub 10 is a corked rotation, not a flip rotation, so it's 3 rotations.
I'll explain this one more time since none of you seem to be reading the thread:
A rodeo 5 is a flip and 180 degree spin, it's not called a rodeo 180, it's called a rodeo 540 because the flip is 360 degrees of rotation + 180 spin. He trick dean does is two inverts, so his trick is at least a 720.
I now do not think Dean's dub flat is a dub flat 5. I don't think it's possible to keep arguing this when the person who actually did it says it is not a double flat 5.
A couple follow ups though...
Earlier in the thread, me and others questions Dollo's flat/rodeo 180 and you retorted with 'I'm not talking about Henrik's trick'. But actually, what would you call Henrik's stalled out inverse that seems to end with only 180 degrees of rotation?
Again, not saying this to try to roundabout to calling Dean Berco's trick a dub 5, just thought I would shift the focus to that.
Sick trick no matter what you call it. I get where eheath is coming from but traverse's reasoning makes the most sense. The dub accounts for the double inversion and the spin accounts for the amount of spin you have around your vertical axis.
traverseNobody had said that there we not two flips anywhere in this thread.
Take the original trick everyone was talking about aside for a minute. (which was sick!)
I have read this entire thread several times because I fell I missing something here. I don't understand Heaths argument. If I understand you correctly you are stating that both the rotation (spin) and flip (inversion) make up the total number of the trick? Is that what your saying? I know there is a gray area when it comes to flats and corks.
Example Bobby Browns Switch Dub Misty 1440 from a few years ago
Switch - commin in backwards
Dub - Number of inversions
Misty - type of inversion
1440 - Number of rotations
By Eheaths logic this would be a Switch 2160
Henrik Harlaut Nose butter triple cork 1620
Nose Butter - take off style
Triple- number of inversions
Cork - type of inversion
1260 number of rotations
By Eheaths logic this trick would Nose butter 2700
"eheath: But he rotated at least 720 degrees, he did two flips"
"eheath: In b4 everyone tells me I'm wrong. It's fucking science, a rodeo 5 is a flip and a 180, 360 degree flip plus 180 spin = 540 degrees of rotation. He does two flips, just because spins the opposite way he sets doesn't subtract a complete 180 degrees of rotation from the trick." -
NO thats not a rodeo 540, thats a backflip 180!!!!!!!!!!
I really want to bitch about this more, but this is NS and no one listens. So next year the NS is helping with the Dew Tour please inform the TV announcers to call the rotation of the trick as the total number y and x axis rotations. So we can all change what we been calling tricks for the past 20 years.
Henriks nose butter double is a cork, not a flip. Like I said before, we're talking about inverted rotations, not corked rotations.
You went full retard on bobbys trick because you do count the flips in a misty. A misty 720 is front flipping rotation (one 360) with a 360 degree spin. So bobbys sw misty 1440 is two sw misty 720s, two flips, 720, two spins 720 = 1440.
I don't know what else you want me to say here, basically you're overthinking the shit out of this, like everyone else. If you do a inverted trick, you count the flips as rotation, if you do a corked rotation, you obviously dont count flips because there aren't any flips.
levi.Go watch someone do a rodeo 9. Is it a rodeo flip followed by a 540? No. It's a 900 on the rodeo axis. Try to open your mind and look at things from a different point of view, assface
A rodeo 9 is also basically a bio 9, another pretty subjective name calling, after rodeo 7 your axis starts to turn into bio IMO. But still, when you do a rodeo 9 you're not doing an extra 720 degrees of rotation as a rodeo 5, you're doing an extra 360, still counting the "flip" as a rotation.
I'm officially signing out of this thread, if you guys really can't figure this out with the info I've posted, then I've got nothing for you.
Henriks nose butter double is a cork, not a flip. Like I said before, we're talking about inverted rotations, not corked rotations.
You went full retard on bobbys trick because you do count the flips in a misty. A misty 720 is front flipping rotation (one 360) with a 360 degree spin. So bobbys sw misty 1440 is two sw misty 720s, two flips, 720, two spins 720 = 1440.
I don't know what else you want me to say here, basically you're overthinking the shit out of this, like everyone else. If you do a inverted trick, you count the flips as rotation, if you do a corked rotation, you obviously dont count flips because there aren't any flips.
A rodeo 9 is also basically a bio 9, another pretty subjective name calling, after rodeo 7 your axis starts to turn into bio IMO. But still, when you do a rodeo 9 you're not doing an extra 720 degrees of rotation as a rodeo 5, you're doing an extra 360, still counting the "flip" as a rotation.
I'm officially signing out of this thread, if you guys really can't figure this out with the info I've posted, then I've got nothing for you.
EHeath "A misty 720 is front flipping rotation (one 360) with a 360 degree spin"
I give up! Newschoolers please go back to "Pee in her Butt" and "Poop on her" stories. Because this guy clearly does not know anything about skiing.
eheathWhat is a misty then? it's a front flip with a spin, this isn't a subjective argument, that is what a misty is and always has been since the 90s.
I'm gunna go get me bottle of Peligroso Silver Tequila and forget about all of this.
levi.Go watch someone do a rodeo 9. Is it a rodeo flip followed by a 540? No. It's a 900 on the rodeo axis. Try to open your mind and look at things from a different point of view, assface
traverseI give up! Newschoolers please go back to "Pee in her Butt" and "Poop on her" stories. Because this guy clearly does not know anything about skiing.
Dude just shut up. Eheath is right on this one and he's been in the ski industry for a shit ton of time. You on the other hand joined 2 months ago so you have no rights to be changing how to call a trick
ben_collinsDude just shut up. Eheath is right on this one and he's been in the ski industry for a shit ton of time. You on the other hand joined 2 months ago so you have no rights to be changing how to call a trick
The only way to do a double, per Mike Wilson who basically invented off axis rotations is to come back to takeoff (straight up and down). He started this whole thing, before Jon did, and by that definition it is physically impossible to do a double that is less than a 720. Double wobble is not a double. Why don't you look up Wilson flip. These are super sick rotations and look crazy cool however. But why does it matter what it is called, I just prefer to say "yo homie that was SAF"
traverseEHeath "A misty 720 is front flipping rotation (one 360) with a 360 degree spin"
I give up! Newschoolers please go back to "Pee in her Butt" and "Poop on her" stories. Because this guy clearly does not know anything about skiing.
sorry dude but this quote just points out that you don't understand the naming system and why it works/makes sense. i mean, what is your rebuttal to what he said? do you really think a misty that includes a flip and a 360 is called a misty 3?
do a misty 7 (flip + 360 spin). now do a bio 7. now do a barely bio 7. now do a straight 7. this should illustrate that the rotation was always a 7, just done different ways. the flip basically just turned into a spin as you changed the way the trick was thrown. it holds up throughout all of trick naming and without understanding this youll never understand how to identify the more complex dubs and trips, nevermind weird tricks like dean's that fuck with what youre used to seeing
