Fort McMurray is on fire

californiagrownYou run fucking slow haha. That said, that guy is just a troll. Best to ignore.


What do you think is the cause of such a gnarly start to the fire season? The artificial lack of forest fires in previous years leading to a buildup of underbrush? A perfect storm of weather conditions? A lack of urgency in the initial stages of the fire?

What do you think they could do better?

FUUUCKlol but can you run that fast in the boreal forest?

We had an especially dry winter in Alberta because of the El Nino. There's definitely a build up of underbrush and the 30°C weather with strong winds were the perfect storm. I don't know if there was a lack of urgency, because they were bombing the fires in the early stages last week, but Tuesday the winds shifted and the fire spread faster than they anticipated back towards the city.

The only thing I think they could've done better was build a better fire break around the city before the fire. A lot of homes, especially those in Abasand, Beacon Hill, and Woodbuffalo, are only a stones throw from the forest and as far as I've seen in my 2.5 years up there they don't do any preventative burning around the city.

MadFlavorDear Canada,

Put out the fire you dumb fucks.

Thanks,

American

VinnieFBig question: how the hell does nobody from Fort Mac seem to have money? They've all been making 6 figures yet they're all broke. Worst money management ever.

RusticlesSome of them have been making money hand over fist for years...... They're not the ones in need of help nor the ones looking for them. It takes more than just rich oilfield workers to make a city that large. There are many school teachers, service industry workers, and tons more, all whom have been trying to make ends meet in a hyper inflated market, not to mention people whom have been off work for a year+

With all these handouts, people offering up their homes and all the handouts at the evacuation centers, its the insurance companies are the ones that are benefiting. The Insurance companies should have some type of direct billing setup for people.

VinnieFI guess I didn't word my question quite right. I'm not necessarily talking about on the individual basis. Obviously there are poor and rich people, but for a city that's made more money per person then about anywhere else in the entire world (find another city with a 200k median household income) you would think the one thing they would need the most right now wouldn't be cash. I heard an interview with someone from there who said don't bother sending food or clothing or anything like that. Send us cash. We need cash.

It's a situation where I would fully expect the community to have enough to support themselves as a whole.

Then you'd think at least at the Provincial level they'd have a contingency available from all their years as a boom province. Like Norway who went through a very similar situation but managed to put away massive amounts in savings. But nope. They went broke not even a year after oil prices sank.

The whole province and everyone in it just reeks of terrible money management (not that the rest of the country is better) and one would think this shouldn't be as big a crisis as it's turned into as a result.

VinnieFI guess I didn't word my question quite right. I'm not necessarily talking about on the individual basis. Obviously there are poor and rich people, but for a city that's made more money per person then about anywhere else in the entire world (find another city with a 200k median household income) you would think the one thing they would need the most right now wouldn't be cash. I heard an interview with someone from there who said don't bother sending food or clothing or anything like that. Send us cash. We need cash.

It's a situation where I would fully expect the community to have enough to support themselves as a whole.

Then you'd think at least at the Provincial level they'd have a contingency available from all their years as a boom province. Like Norway who went through a very similar situation but managed to put away massive amounts in savings. But nope. They went broke not even a year after oil prices sank.

The whole province and everyone in it just reeks of terrible money management (not that the rest of the country is better) and one would think this shouldn't be as big a crisis as it's turned into as a result.

RusticlesThe area as a whole is very rich and for that reason evacuating 80000 people (with 1 hi-way) in an afternoon went incredibly smooth with the overwhelming support of the rest of Alberta. If the area wasn't as successful as it has been I would expect a different outcome. There are RV's and trailers in almost every farmers yard south of Fort Mac, thousands of people have been offering up their houses for free making more room for less fortunate people to be accomadated. Oil companies housed and fed 20000+ people that fled north and flew many of them out for free. There were fleets of farmers, small oilfield contractors and even average joe's delivering thousands of liters of fuel and food out of their own pockets to people stranded on the only hi-way in and out (there's 1 gas station in 400km). We didn't need to wait for the government to help us out financially, there were enough people donating their own time and money. If this happened elsewhere in the country I highly doubt there would be the support that Alberta has offered from their own pockets.

The only reason you think that we have a money problem is because there are no idiots with money where you come from..... They all moved here.

californiagrownI'm confused, why are they in such dire need of cash? Does everyone have a drug or gambling addiction? Did all the credit card machines in northern Canada go down? Wtf?

RusticlesThe area as a whole is very rich and for that reason evacuating 80000 people (with 1 hi-way) in an afternoon went incredibly smooth with the overwhelming support of the rest of Alberta. If the area wasn't as successful as it has been I would expect a different outcome. There are RV's and trailers in almost every farmers yard south of Fort Mac, thousands of people have been offering up their houses for free making more room for less fortunate people to be accomadated. Oil companies housed and fed 20000+ people that fled north and flew many of them out for free. There were fleets of farmers, small oilfield contractors and even average joe's delivering thousands of liters of fuel and food out of their own pockets to people stranded on the only hi-way in and out (there's 1 gas station in 400km). We didn't need to wait for the government to help us out financially, there were enough people donating their own time and money. If this happened elsewhere in the country I highly doubt there would be the support that Alberta has offered from their own pockets.

The only reason you think that we have a money problem is because there are no idiots with money where you come from..... They all moved here.

saskskierMy aunt and uncle's house was flooded in High River back in 2013. They are great with their money, but have said the biggest, most practical thing that helped them was cash. Expenses such as travel, accommodations, food, car rentals, etc add up quickly, especially if you have a family you are relocating.

Insurance will eventually kick in, but when you are dealing with 80,000 people, it's going to take time.

californiagrownDo people seriously not have $10k liquid? I mean seriously, that's not that much to have in a checking account. That 10k easily gets a family by for the first couple months... And people should still be working in the meantime. Where? Who knows, find a fucking job that probably isn't in ft McMurray. Move to ottowa and work graveyard at 7/11 living in a shitty apt until your old job rebuilds, and your insurance kicks in. Don't beg for handouts you don't NEED.

.Rybak.one gas station and 80k people? yeah I'm calling bullshit. I've been to towns with 200 in the middle of wyoming that have more gas stations than that.

RusticlesLook it up. there is 1 gas station on hi-way 63 between fort mac and civilization called wandering river, I doubt they would have the fuel on hand for 80000. It's also about 250k south of fort mac so everyone that had less than half a tank wouldn't have made it. I'll bet most gas stations in fort mac were probably closed or packed tuesday afternoon, and yeah in a perfect world people should have been hoarding gas a-lot sooner.

GORILLAWALLACEdoes anyone know why trudeau is declining help from every country that offers? I mean do we really have the situation under control or is he being a dumb cunt about it

VinnieFSee, this is the huge disconnect between what I'm hearing in the media and what I'm hearing from you. Every day we're getting bombarded with "donate to Fort Mac " and I've heard interviews on Cbc with people saying "donate cash we need cash" and interviews with people saying they have no idea where the money will come from for a rebuild etc etc. It's all making it sound like there's no money available.

That's the reason I think there's no money. Because I'm told there's no money.

And FYI the city I'm in (Ottawa) has the highest household income in Canada (for cities, fort mac doesn't actually count as a city surprisingly)

.Rybak.Are you saying that there is only 1 gas station once you leave fort mac? That's understandable then I guess.

VinnieFfairly unrelated, but now maybe Canadians (especially Albertans) will be able to show a lot more sympathy for Syrian (and other) refugees. Now you can sort of comprehend what it's like to have your city destroyed and be forced away from your home (although not even close to the same scale and atrocity that's happened in Syria). It's really nice to have people who accept you with open arms and do what they can to help fellow human beings. Maybe it will change a lot of Albertans opinions on refugees, since it's known their province has about the least popular support for them currently.

MLBIf anybody did have experience then they would know why we just can't invite the Russians to help out,

VinnieFfairly unrelated, but now maybe Canadians (especially Albertans) will be able to show a lot more sympathy for Syrian (and other) refugees. Now you can sort of comprehend what it's like to have your city destroyed and be forced away from your home (although not even close to the same scale and atrocity that's happened in Syria). It's really nice to have people who accept you with open arms and do what they can to help fellow human beings. Maybe it will change a lot of Albertans opinions on refugees, since it's known their province has about the least popular support for them currently.

GORILLAWALLACEwhy can't we invite the russians? I'm not trying to argue just looking for reasoning cause canada is always sending people to go help other countries for shit like this but in the PM's statement he's just like "nah we're good thanks"

GORILLAWALLACEwhy can't we invite the russians? I'm not trying to argue just looking for reasoning cause canada is always sending people to go help other countries for shit like this but in the PM's statement he's just like "nah we're good thanks"

saskskierI wonder how all the refugee's who are donating stuff to the Ft. Mac people feel about the widespread coverage and resources going towards rescuing and helping the pets that were left behind.

californiagrownDo people seriously not have $10k liquid? I mean seriously, that's not that much to have in a checking account. That 10k easily gets a family by for the first couple months... And people should still be working in the meantime. Where? Who knows, find a fucking job that probably isn't in ft McMurray. Move to ottowa and work graveyard at 7/11 living in a shitty apt until your old job rebuilds, and your insurance kicks in. Don't beg for handouts you don't NEED.

Rusticleshow far we are willing to go for fellow Canadians whom are in far less danger than people of a different ethnicity who are up against greater dangers.

Jesse_I live only 5 hours from Fort Mac...

PoLaRpEaKYes, it is shocking that we would support our fellow high tax paying countrymen.

RusticlesYeah, I think the media has blown this way out of proportion, I feel like there will or already are people scamming this situation. I can't see the need for all the money and goods that have been donated already. Every corporation out here is donating $100k+, red cross has already received millions. I grew up in the nearest community to Slave lake and when they had to be evacuated due to fires a few years ago and they mostly came through our town, There was so much shit that was donated that had to be tossed out afterwords. I would think people who's houses burnt should be getting their entire displacement comped by insurance which leads me to believe insurance companies are going to get off without some of the costs but that's just me.

The big thing I think about the money is that the money that's been donated and the governments support hasn't been distributed yet. I'm not too sure, but it's probably just the logistics of distributing millions of dollars to 80000 people and figuring out who actually needs it.

I think you actually told me about Ottawa had the highest median income in Canada before and I was somewhat surprised that Van or TO wasn't higher. Fort mac may have an average income of $200k plus but their cost of living is so over-inflated that $200k prob doesn't go that far, not too mention there are a lot of people out of work there right now.

PoLaRpEaKYou realize moving a family of 4 to Ottawa would cost more than you would make working the Graveyard shift at 7-11 for a year right?

VinnieFToday at the grocery store they asked if I wanted to add 10% on my bill to help fort McMurray. I didn't ask the charity, but it's hard to believe they have money when that happens. I wonder if it would have gone to help rescue pets.

TheBigAppleYes, you and 2 million other people.

VinnieFBig question: how the hell does nobody from Fort Mac seem to have money? They've all been making 6 figures yet they're all broke. Worst money management ever.

FUUUCKMost people are NOT making 6 figures. Also:

Much higher cost of living+

Supporting people back home+

Lots more folks going to school+

Oil prices crashed=

Nobody has cash

VinnieFThe average person IS making 6 figures. Or close to. Average household income is 200,000ish. The average household in Canada has 2 earners or less.

Cost of living really isn't that much higher than other large markets. Housing price is still much less than Vancouver and about on par with Toronto.

There's only 1 post secondary institution there I could find that has 2800 full time students.

I dunno about the supporting people back home thing. And you don't either. That's completely anecdotal since it's nearly impossible to track. Obviously it does happen, but to what extent? Dunno. But I would be very very surprised if it was more than 10% of the population.


Face it. Albertan's suck at money management. Only months after the oil prices dropped you couldn't avoid the stories of the poor old albertan couple who owns a large house, 2 trucks, atv, no kids, etc who ran out of cash pretty much weeks after loosing their 200k a year job. It boggles the mind at how people are so shit with money.

I just looked it up and the average person in Fort McMurray is able to put away 30,000+ a year after all expenses. Compared to the average Torontonian who is able to put away about 7,000. Even if you've only been there 1 year you should have 30 grand in cash in the bank at your disposal (btw this factors in paying things like a mortgage and the like. Every expense)


And now their giving away $1,250 cash to everyone. It's a little bit hilarious.

FUUUCKDude you're way off, and it sounds like you just want to shit on Alberta.

The median household income was $186,782 in 2013 when oil prices were up above $100 a barrel. Since then many of us lost our jobs and everyone took a pay cut.

On top of that, there are several thousand people there who go unreported, people who rent a room in a basement or are staying with aunts and uncles. Most of these people are low income and can't afford to rent a real place up there, I know because I was one of them. When I rented a room in a basement for $800 and had to shower at the gym everyday I knew that my landlord wasn't reporting my presence.

Housing prices are on par with Toronto but rent is way higher. I personally lived in both cities and money goes further in Toronto.

Keyano College is the is the post secondary institution you're talking about, 2800 is just full time students and doesn't include trade school which accounts for a huge portion of their students, but most kids go to NAIT or SAIT in Calgary and Edmonton.

Thanks for telling me what I don't know, but every Filipino, Somalian, and Arab I worked with was supporting family in their home countries and even in Toronto and Manitoba. Most east coasters were too. If you don't know how can you throw out a number like 10%?

You're so good at guessing, what percentage of Albertans make 200k and have no savings? Debt is unfortunately apart of Canadian culture at this point, but it's not strictly an Alberta problem, the more money you make the more debt you're allowed to accumulate, which is why you don't hear about the guy in Cape Breton who has a big truck and a bunch of other financed toys, that doesn't make people in other occupations any more or less financially literate, it just means they don't have access to that credit.

But yeah whatever man, giving $1250 to Canadians who will be displaced for weeks and who have literally lost every thing is hilarious. L-O-L

FUUUCKMost people are NOT making 6 figures. Also:

Much higher cost of living+

Supporting people back home+

Lots more folks going to school+

Oil prices crashed=

Nobody has cash

VinnieFSo when the oil prices dropped over a year ago how many of the basement livers stuck around? If it's so expensive to live there and your temporary job is.cut, do you stick around and pay twice what you would to live somewhere else without income? No. You leave. Those people are not even in the picture. There's a reason the place was described as a ghost town after prices dropped.

So don't even factor those people in. And the people sending money back home? Well they have a home to go back to. Not a big deal. Not hard to scratch up the cash for a 1 way plane ticket. I mean they just got more than enough in cash each.

Get back to the point about the average person being able to put away almost 5 times the cash each year as someone from Toronto. If you're able to put that much away there is no reason to need handouts for a month or two of living before you get insurance payouts. Unless of course you suck at money management.

And shouldn't the oil drop last year have made people think "maybe I should start saving unless I lose my job like all those others who had to leave "? You'd think people with so much cash flow would be prepared.

And I won't even get into how anyone in a resource job should know to not consider it a permanent job and blow all your money on unneeded luxuries like trucks and expensive drugs.

It's bad money management. Plain and simple. no need to defend them.

californiagrownI was making a good deal less than 6figs, while living in San Francisco for a few years and still managed to save up a good deal of money.

History generally shows that boom economies attract people okay with risk, and typically not overly conservative or responsible with money. Poor money mgmt and living on credit so you can have the luxuries of a millionaire is a trend that needs to stop in NA, in my opinion.

RusticlesI'd be willing to bet that the people that are looking for handouts are eastern Canadians out here trying to live the dream, everyone that has settled out here has probably got family helping them out. The people looking for money are probably from Ontario or the Maritimes or even BC and are here because they were sick of getting nowhere in their own provinces. Maybe they got here right before shit hit the fan and weren't able to save much, maybe they're paying down debt from years of scraping by in the east. Doesn't matter they're here now and that's not the problem. It doesn't even matter if they need it or not, were still going to help them out and ease their burden regardless of what you think. You really think we shouldn't need to help them out, they should have enough? I'm gonna remember that when it's your turn.

Like I said earlier, Albertan's and the companies that operate out here didn't wait for prime minister selfie to come up with a plan, we took the shirts off our backs and helped out our fellow country men in need. If this had happened elsewhere I bet very few people would have donated thousands in fuel and food and baby stuff out of their own pockets,probably because they were broke, they would have waited for the government to bail them out with Alberta's money, "but we have the money management issue".

Don't donate then, we don't need your lunch money

You sound like a bitter old cunt.