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I currently have a strap on avalung(non pack attachment). After using this version of the avalung, would definitely say that if you want an avalung, using one that is integrated into the pack is the only way to go. The non integrated version of the avalung is a pain in the ass.
That being said, I really feel like whether you choose to buy an avalung or airbag is a personal choice. There are so many factors (personal decision making, terrain choice, weight, bc experience.. etc) that would cause a person to choose one over the other. If you want to save weight, go with the avalung. If you ski in terrain where the run out of a slidepath is densely covered in trees, go with the avalung. If you like the ski in the alpine or in areas that have clean run outs for slidepaths, go with a float. If you feel like having a float pack would cause you to decide to ski more dangerous terrain, I would probably steer away from a floatpack.
I own an avalung. I probably will get a floatpack in the near future. I would say that for most scenarios, a floatpack is better. The BD jetforce is a really good($$$) option. If you go the BCA route, I would recommend not getting the 32L. Everyone I know with a BCA float 32, says its way too big and clunky. If you are looking for something in the 30L range, Mammut makes a really good one in that size.
avalung gives you a better chance of surviving if you are buried. airbags give you a better chance of not getting buried in the first place. so if you look at it that way, airbags make more sense.
airbags can make it harder to self arrest or ski out of an avalanche, which is your first line of defense. so consider that.
one of the bigger issues with both of these devices is the false security they give you. good judgement gives you the best shot of staying out of avalanches. devices that can alter your judgement should taken carefully. i'm not saying you shouldn't get them, but don't think it's cool to go rip down avalanche terrain on a dangerous day just because you have your float pack.
I ski with an avalung because I got it for free, but often forget it's there which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Implying that you already have experience with backcountry and avalanche training and the basic gear (beacon,shovel,probe), go for an airbag for sure.
Just make sure that you have the knowledge in the backcountry! Having avalanche rescue equipment should never affect on your decision making.
That being said, in my opinion an airbag is nowadays a key piece of equipment in the backcountry (when correctly used) and are just as important as all the other stuff like the shovel, probe and beacon.
Both have different functions to let you increase the odds of surviving an avalanche. Both have advantages and problems. The type of avalanche should also be considered.
Avalungs are a cheap option with a very limited function. Its about creating a non crushable air pocket you can breath from. Its not compressed air or any of that. Once you are burried in a slide and not crushed to death, the avalung will let you breathe and survive until hypothermia or injury sets in.
Airbags work by making you a bigger chunk than the slab pieces. By sedimentation theory, your buoyancy rises and lets you ride on top of the slide; preventing you of going under. But at a cost more than a beacon, they dont come cheap and they are serviceable one time use only. They dont work all the time and they are quite heavy to have if weight is an issue.
Too many people rely on these to compensate for lack of backcountry skills. These are last resort ditch efforts to survive and not guaranteed thing. Like in the AST 1 course, you learn beacon tracking skills in hopes of never using them. However, they are exceptional survival tools that I would consider having nearby when the safety margin runs thin.
I personally use a BCA airbag, i just find the thought of having a chance of staying above the slide alpt more appealing than being able to breathe whilst buried in it, because once an avalanche sets, the top payer can be extremely hard to break through with a shovel, so keep that in mind
Another thing you need to keep in mind that a few people have brought up is that these devices shouldnt alter your judgement, they are just backups. Always keep the same mindset when wearing an airbag or avalung as you would without one
It's not so much of a decision between technology in my opinion as what you can afford. The airbag has proven far more effective in protection than avalungs. Remember, an avalung only works if you have it in your mouth -- avalanches produce gigantic forces and buried victims are often found with snow stuffed deep in their throats, packs ripped off etc... Good luck keeping an avalung in your mouth in a powerful slide.
Regardless of experience level, owning and properly using, an airbag or avalung will make your backcountry travel marginally safer. The airbag costs 10x what an avalung does, but it does a good job of keeping you on top and reduces head and neck trauma substantially (something like 25% of avalanche fatalities are due to trauma).
My logic, if you can afford it, it makes no sense to not own an airbag. As long as it doesn't alter your decision making, it will make you a bit safer. For me, that's well worth the cost.
hemlockjibber8I ask again, do people prep their airbag handle and put their avalung in their mouth every run they drop in on?
Yeah I have the bca float, its not that big of a deal to have the pull handle out. It just zips into the shoulder strap of the pack when you're not using it. But like was said above about having the avalung in your mouth, you gotta have the presence of mind to pull the thing when you're no doubt going to be in a complete panic.
how about a deflated balloon in a backpack, with a big can of helium. you pop an avy, you just pull the tab and boom, the balloon fills and you float out of harm's way just like the old dude in the movie UP
CaseyYeah I have the bca float, its not that big of a deal to have the pull handle out. It just zips into the shoulder strap of the pack when you're not using it. But like was said above about having the avalung in your mouth, you gotta have the presence of mind to pull the thing when you're no doubt going to be in a complete panic.
Using it properly is definitely one issue but practice helps with that.
My question is when do people decide to ski with their avalung in their mouth or not (or airbag primed).
Frankly, unless you always ski/tour with an Avalung in your mouth and you have the jaws of a pitbull, I think you're buying a marginal safety boost at best. I've been hit hard and lost my mouth guard before, and that's practically vacuum sealed inside my mouth. Airbags are more expensive but they have been proven to work very well in the short time they've been around. That data gives me some confidence that they can help and if I was ever caught, I'd pick an airbag over an Avalung every time. If they didn't cost 10x as much I doubt you'd even ask.
My dad told me (Im not sure if this is completely accurate) that airbags increase the rate of survival by 96%. Sounds kinda like BS but I hope its true haha
Airbag/avalungs are a last line of defence. Training and subsequent smart decisions are far more effective.
That being said, airbags are proven far more effective, they help you stay "above" the snow in a slide. They will also to some degree help protect your head.
An avalung will only give you more time for your buddies to find you, that's if you can get the mouth piece in your mouth and that it's got an air pocket after you're buried. After being buried myself I highly doubt you can either get that mouth piece in or keep it in during a slide or once buried. I'd say it would even be tough to pull a handle if you don't get to it immediately.
I have the Alyeska mammoet vest. I like the snow pulse system, bottles are cheap and easy to fill and the bag is easy to pack allowing you to test it easily. The vest itself is light but doesn't fit much but the basics.
with an avalung you're trying to predict when you're going to have bad times. Let's say you're about to drop in, you put the piece in your mouth and you get hit by an avalanche. It may very well knock it out of your mouth and leave you with nothing.
Airbag you've got to have a little time between you realizing the avalanche and pulling the chord, and you don't always have that.
My advice, get both. You can't price your life like that and decide to risk it for a couple hundred bucks more.
