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Skier/rider owned companies.

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Kbob94
Posts: 1257 - Karma: 7,885
So I searched and couldn't really find any thread on it. My question is what are some kickass companies that are owned by skiers etc. I'm looking to get some new gear in the next year and wanna support "smaller" rider owned companies.
Jan 19 2016 3:23PM
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brotherdad
Posts: 2076 - Karma: 13,067
Off the top of my head..

Vishnu
ON3P
Revision
HG
Yoke
NWT3K
Aura Optics
Jan 19 2016 3:34PM
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Denise_Reynolds
Posts: 56 - Karma: 112
DINKLEBERGOff the top of my head..

Vishnu
ON3P
Revision
HG
Yoke
NWT3K
Aura Optics


Virtika?
Is saga still?
Jan 19 2016 3:38PM
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grilled_steeze
Posts: 422 - Karma: 1,447
J Skis, and I think Ski The East
Jan 19 2016 3:49PM
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BenWhit
Posts: 4654 - Karma: 3,256
Denise_ReynoldsVirtika?
Is saga still?


I believe Saga is still owned by Tim Durtschi. I cannot confirm because his position per Facebook is "Janitor"

I'm under the impression Lesh still owns Virtika as well.
Jan 19 2016 3:49PM
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ModMommy
Posts: 10813 - Karma: 57,124
4FRNT
Jan 19 2016 3:51PM
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gnar_whal
Posts: 1286 - Karma: 3,787
Sabek and bloom, but idk what's going on with sabek I don't see anything new
Jan 19 2016 3:54PM
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KravtZ
Posts: 6637 - Karma: 2,629
Surface
Jan 19 2016 4:04PM
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Kbob94
Posts: 1257 - Karma: 7,885
Thanks a bunch guys. This helps.
Jan 19 2016 4:44PM
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Rice
Posts: 311 - Karma: 2,229
no one has said Armada?!
Jan 19 2016 9:12PM
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tris10radeka
Posts: 267 - Karma: 665
J skis
Jan 20 2016 10:57AM
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Girays_Brother
Posts: 13973 - Karma: 1,635
La Fa
Jan 20 2016 11:01AM
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Girays_Brother
Posts: 13973 - Karma: 1,635
and great thread, this is a good direction to be thinking, your dollar will go further supporting these brands than others
Jan 20 2016 11:01AM
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KravtZ
Posts: 6637 - Karma: 2,629
Girays_Brotherand great thread, this is a good direction to be thinking, your dollar will go further supporting these brands than others


ehhh..I think the vast majority of skiers ( NS is such a small % of total sport pop) don't really care about supporting "core" brands. Me included. Price is the biggest factor for the most part.

Im pretty loyal to Surface skis at this point...love their skis and every one I have owned have been amazing. That being said, they offer amazing discounts and very competitive pricing especially in summer sales.

If Salomon or K2 or Head offered a ski that was just as strong and just as cheap through any of their sellers I would jump on that in a heartbeat.
Jan 20 2016 11:16AM
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Skibumsam521
Posts: 48 - Karma: 94
ROCKY MTN UNDERGROUND
Jan 20 2016 11:19AM
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Rennis_Deynolds
Posts: 2739 - Karma: 19,058
BenWhitI believe Saga is still owned by Tim Durtschi. I cannot confirm because his position per Facebook is "Janitor"

I'm under the impression Lesh still owns Virtika as well.


Andy mallet owns saga pretty sure
Jan 20 2016 11:24AM
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Lonely
Posts: 6738 - Karma: 61,612
Moment?
Jan 20 2016 11:38AM
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russsavokskis
Posts: 699 - Karma: 1,264
BenWhitI believe Saga is still owned by Tim Durtschi. I cannot confirm because his position per Facebook is "Janitor"

I'm under the impression Lesh still owns Virtika as well.


Lesh definitely still owns virtika
Jan 20 2016 11:50AM
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KittenFactory
Posts: 189 - Karma: 2,288
[url=http://
Jan 20 2016 12:11PM
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KittenFactory
Posts: 189 - Karma: 2,288
KittenFactory[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIHYPaoh79I[/video]
Jan 20 2016 12:12PM
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fries
Posts: 2978 - Karma: 7,518
Jskis is great and has amazing service. I bought a t shirt summer 2014 and later that year was mailed a 100$ coupon for a pair of skis for being one of the early customers
Jan 20 2016 12:17PM
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Buttepacker
Posts: 24 - Karma: 32
Discrete Clothing = Julian Carr
Jan 20 2016 12:27PM
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Chubz.
Posts: 13918 - Karma: 25,661
Arsenic

NSL
Jan 20 2016 12:32PM
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saskskier
Posts: 4774 - Karma: 10,005
Heartcarve Skis
Jan 20 2016 1:08PM
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brend
Posts: 779 - Karma: 3,608
Jiberish
Jan 20 2016 1:30PM
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Kbob94
Posts: 1257 - Karma: 7,885
Girays_Brotherand great thread, this is a good direction to be thinking, your dollar will go further supporting these brands than others


Thats what my thinking is.
Jan 20 2016 1:47PM
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Rennis_Deynolds
Posts: 2739 - Karma: 19,058
tris10radekaJ skis


Had no idea
Jan 20 2016 3:33PM
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-Dan
Posts: 7126 - Karma: 51,647
OP is smart. Be like OP.
Jan 20 2016 4:06PM
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Girays_Brother
Posts: 13973 - Karma: 1,635
KravtZehhh..I think the vast majority of skiers ( NS is such a small % of total sport pop) don't really care about supporting "core" brands. Me included. Price is the biggest factor for the most part.

Im pretty loyal to Surface skis at this point...love their skis and every one I have owned have been amazing. That being said, they offer amazing discounts and very competitive pricing especially in summer sales.

If Salomon or K2 or Head offered a ski that was just as strong and just as cheap through any of their sellers I would jump on that in a heartbeat.


If your "pretty loyal to surface skis" why the fuck would you jump all over salomon, K2, or head for the same deal of skis? Salomon hasn't done shit for Freeskiing in Years and Years. Head doesn't do anything PERIOD, and K2 is in the same category. Just tell me why you "don't really care to support "core" brands" and while your at it, why is it necessary to put core in quotations.
Jan 20 2016 5:26PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
Girays_BrotherSalomon hasn't done shit for Freeskiing in Years and Years.


You're kidding, right? Literally this year they put out arguably the best touring boot of all time.
Jan 20 2016 6:31PM
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amo
Posts: 6709 - Karma: 1,248
BogsYou're kidding, right? Literally this year they put out arguably the best touring boot of all time.


I think he meant Salomon hasn't done anything for freestyle/newschool skiing in years and years. Which is so true.
Jan 20 2016 6:36PM
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Brocka_Flocka
Posts: 1215 - Karma: 8,742
Strafe
Jan 20 2016 6:40PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7143 - Karma: 17,438
amoI think he meant Salomon hasn't done anything for freestyle/newschool skiing in years and years. Which is so true.


Other then help some of the biggest names in slopestyle get to where they are today. Salomon and other big brands always get hated on here when in reality they give way more back then any smaller brand ever could. But hey it's cool to hate on big brands, so fuck salomon I guess haha
Jan 20 2016 6:41PM
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amo
Posts: 6709 - Karma: 1,248
tomPietrowskiOther then help some of the biggest names in slopestyle get to where they are today. Salomon and other big brands always get hated on here when in reality they give way more back then any smaller brand ever could. But hey it's cool to hate on big brands, so fuck salomon I guess haha


Sure in the past they were awesome. During the G-Suit era they killed it and had a top notch team. Now? They don't even have a team listed on their site. They have 2 (TWO!) park skis, and 3 powder skis and you can't even buy them on their website (wtf is up with that?). I've heard it before on NS and I'll say it again, the money isn't here, so they're moving on. To me it seems like some core brands give back way more than some of the bigger ones i.e. sponsoring smaller video parts and small events like TAFT. K2 is still sort of holding it down for the big companies, but they're the only ones.
Jan 20 2016 7:04PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7143 - Karma: 17,438
amoSure in the past they were awesome. During the G-Suit era they killed it and had a top notch team. Now? They don't even have a team listed on their site. They have 2 (TWO!) park skis, and 3 powder skis and you can't even buy them on their website (wtf is up with that?). I've heard it before on NS and I'll say it again, the money isn't here, so they're moving on. To me it seems like some core brands give back way more than some of the bigger ones i.e. sponsoring smaller video parts and small events like TAFT. K2 is still sort of holding it down for the big companies, but they're the only ones.


Well woodsy bobby and Vinny are all pretty massive names which they surport. And yeah they don't make a ton of differnt park skis because as you rightly pointed out they just don't sell in the same numbers that freeride and even carvin skis do. You can expect a brand to through loads of money at somthing and see little to know come back. It's like someone else said the smaller brands may be more visible at a level ns sees but the investment of the small guys can't compete with the bigger guys.
Jan 20 2016 7:50PM
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iggyskier
Posts: 10447 - Karma: 10,018
The referenced post has been removed.


I know you are just playing devil's advocate, but clarity on 2 points. First, the 2 pairs comment said that most ON3P athletes only need 2 park skis to cover their entire year. So it was just a comment on durability than anything. Most of the team has a full quiver - multiple park skis, then at least an all mountain and powder. I think Karl's full allotment of skis last year was 5-6 pairs and he was set for the year. So it isn't that we don't want to invest it athletes, its that our skis cost a lot of build, so why spend the money on skis they don't need? It isn't like...hey you went through your 2 pairs for the year, sorry! We supply our athletes what they need.

Second, the big brands contribute a ton to skiing and even us working in small brands got bothered by the idea that they don't. Skiing wouldn't exist in its current state without K2, Salomon, Fischer, etc. Every brand contributes to skiing so to say otherwise is viewing the industry through blinders. Size, of course, will alter the amount of cash brands can invest back in skiing.

Fischer did 175 million in revenue last year. ON3P employees less than 15 people, and of that only 2/3 are full time.

So, from a money standpoint, we'll never be able to be close.

Small brands contribute ideas and character to an industry that needs it.

On the cash end, don't think small brands don't invest back in skiing either. Obviously Fischer did a ton for Joss, but we've doing the same for Karl, Sander, Magnus...You are easily looking well into the 6 figures on support, travel, etc which I can tell you is a ton of money for a brand our size. Movie parts are not cheap, so even a small brand like ours is trying to put as much money as we can back into skiing. If we didn't believe skiing would be better for it, we wouldn't do it, because there is very little money to go around in the indie ski world. Hard to compete when you sell a product with 2x the Cost of Goods for almost the same price point.

Support the brands, big and small, you feel are good for skiing and skiing will be better for it.
Jan 20 2016 8:34PM
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J_BISCHOF
Posts: 2082 - Karma: 1,449
HG, KF Skis, Vishnu,
Jan 20 2016 9:05PM
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Girays_Brother
Posts: 13973 - Karma: 1,635
The referenced post has been removed.


I should've worded it differently, its not that they dont give nothing to free skiing, because they do pay a select few that are on the tippy top good money. Its that most really don't care about the free skiers in the end. The moment they get a new guy in charge of budgeting or the athlete gets hurt they can very quickly kick the skier to the curb and not think twice.

The point I'm trying to make is that if we start throwing our money into the core brands, those brands will have more to throw directly into free skiing. I can guarantee you they care about the path of Freeskiing a hell of a lot more than the Huge Brands.
If we start to put more money into the core companies hands we can expect better control over that future of free skiing. I've been seeing tons of crazy shit happening lately that shouldn't be happening. and its because we don't have a strong following to the core companies. Skateboarding created their own brands, Snowboarding created their own brands, Surfing created their own brands. Our Niche of skiing on the other hand is controlled by racing brands.

Orage dropped their entire team. I've seen professional buddies have their budgets, which are already too small, slashed in half. I've felt the results from Under Armour just because a new budgeting guy moved it. I see it everywhere right now, So I'm saying this out of experience.

Newschoolers is a powerful group of people and like anywhere else in economics, the consumer dollar holds a lot of power. Use it to support the guys that you know are in it for the long haul, and are trying to do something good for skiing, and trying to support athletes. This will make a huge difference for our future.

I hope this makes sense to everybody
Jan 20 2016 9:31PM
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Kbob94
Posts: 1257 - Karma: 7,885
iggyskierI know you are just playing devil's advocate, but clarity on 2 points. First, the 2 pairs comment said that most ON3P athletes only need 2 park skis to cover their entire year. So it was just a comment on durability than anything. Most of the team has a full quiver - multiple park skis, then at least an all mountain and powder. I think Karl's full allotment of skis last year was 5-6 pairs and he was set for the year. So it isn't that we don't want to invest it athletes, its that our skis cost a lot of build, so why spend the money on skis they don't need? It isn't like...hey you went through your 2 pairs for the year, sorry! We supply our athletes what they need.

Second, the big brands contribute a ton to skiing and even us working in small brands got bothered by the idea that they don't. Skiing wouldn't exist in its current state without K2, Salomon, Fischer, etc. Every brand contributes to skiing so to say otherwise is viewing the industry through blinders. Size, of course, will alter the amount of cash brands can invest back in skiing.

Fischer did 175 million in revenue last year. ON3P employees less than 15 people, and of that only 2/3 are full time.

So, from a money standpoint, we'll never be able to be close.

Small brands contribute ideas and character to an industry that needs it.

On the cash end, don't think small brands don't invest back in skiing either. Obviously Fischer did a ton for Joss, but we've doing the same for Karl, Sander, Magnus...You are easily looking well into the 6 figures on support, travel, etc which I can tell you is a ton of money for a brand our size. Movie parts are not cheap, so even a small brand like ours is trying to put as much money as we can back into skiing. If we didn't believe skiing would be better for it, we wouldn't do it, because there is very little money to go around in the indie ski world. Hard to compete when you sell a product with 2x the Cost of Goods for almost the same price point.

Support the brands, big and small, you feel are good for skiing and skiing will be better for it.


The referenced post has been removed.


Dude i totally agree!! I was just gonna write something like this. I'm definitely impressed with ON3P and taking the time to write this information. It's very helpfully and insightful. Keep up the great work guys.
Jan 20 2016 9:32PM
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KravtZ
Posts: 6637 - Karma: 2,629
Girays_BrotherIf your "pretty loyal to surface skis" why the fuck would you jump all over salomon, K2, or head for the same deal of skis? Salomon hasn't done shit for Freeskiing in Years and Years. Head doesn't do anything PERIOD, and K2 is in the same category. Just tell me why you "don't really care to support "core" brands" and while your at it, why is it necessary to put core in quotations.


Just saying ultimately it's about the price to quality factor. I love surface have had 7 pairs of them and been on them for quite a while now. I wouldn't change unless an amazing deal came around that was impossible to turn down. I'm a big supporter of surface and always try to buy core brands on my planks. As I mentioned before, if someone offers me new ar7's for $200 I'm it turning that down
Jan 20 2016 9:38PM
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jakeordie
Posts: 664 - Karma: 3,275
iggyskierSmall brands contribute ideas and character to an industry that needs it.



This is one of many great reasons for skiers to consider where their money goes and what gets done with it after they get the goods.
Jan 20 2016 10:43PM
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Camskier
Posts: 5 - Karma: 19
Armada, yoke , 4frnt , jskis,
Jan 20 2016 11:44PM
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Nicholas.Suchy
Posts: 164 - Karma: 1,119
BogsYou're kidding, right? Literally this year they put out arguably the best touring boot of all time.


I think he's referring to the park and slopestyle kind of free skiing. If just park free skiing I agree with him. They've basically been focusing on making really technical back country gear, I think at least. Which they've done a really good job with.
Jan 21 2016 12:38AM
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leprechaunsissy
Posts: 645 - Karma: 237
When level 9 sports bought all the ninthward skis i bought a few pairs of NGPs, which i love. That was a tiny company that got hated online like the crazy, and the NS community surely contributed to their downfall.
Jan 21 2016 1:07AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
The referenced post has been removed.


What does this even mean?

I guarantee you Fischer cares a hell of a lot about skiing.

The referenced post has been removed.


What does that have to do with anything?

Neither has Jskis, or Moment, or Surface, or Armada, or 4Frnt, or any other brand. Does that mean none of them care about skiing?

This whole idea that big companies don't give a shit about skiing and are just out to screw consumers over or whatever it is you guys think they exist to do has got to go. It's ridiculous and completely unfair.
Jan 21 2016 7:25AM
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BenWhit
Posts: 4654 - Karma: 3,256
Girays_BrotherSalomon hasn't done shit for Freeskiing in Years and Years..


Right, because Salomon was not a spring-board some of the sport's biggest names.
Jan 21 2016 9:26AM
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Kbob94
Posts: 1257 - Karma: 7,885
BenWhitRight, because Salomon was not a spring-board some of the sport's biggest names.


I agree. I remember at some point in time it felt like every pro out there rode Salomon.
Jan 22 2016 7:11AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6656 - Karma: 10,861
iggyskierSupport the brands, big and small, you feel are good for skiing and skiing will be better for it.


BogsThis whole idea that big companies don't give a shit about skiing and are just out to screw consumers over or whatever it is you guys think they exist to do has got to go. It's ridiculous and completely unfair.


As Iggy and a few other have mentioned whenever this topic comes up, a brand's size has little or nothing to do with a brand's passion for skiing or as a reflection of the quality of their products. A brand's passion is produced and reflected by the people who work for that brand. And the quality of their products is reflective of their attention to detail and level of craftsmanship. These aspects are found in companies both large and small, and not found in companies both large and small. Additionally, I can't think of a major skiing brand that at one point did not start out as a humble garage brand. Take that garage brand and add 60 years of success and they will, without a doubt, become a major player. And that is something that should not (in and of itself) be seen as a negative thing.

In general, OP's question seems to be directed only towards skis, clothing, and smaller accessories. To my knowledge, it cannot be directed to things like boots and bindings- these products will always fall under the domain of major brands simply because they are absurdly and profoundly expensive to produce. The investments required to even begin a boot or binding project are in the millions of euros. So, do the skiers who always buy skis/clothing/accessories from smaller, core brands begrudgingly buy bindings & boots from the major companies? In my experience, I haven't really seen that. People have always frothed over the latest iteration of the FKS binding or SPK boot. Why is there, then, this desire to hate on big companies that produce skis but the same hate is not directed towards their boots or bindings? Or is it, and I am just not seeing it?
Jan 22 2016 7:50AM
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ghosthop
Posts: 631 - Karma: 1,027
onenerdykida brand's size has little or nothing to do with a brand's passion for skiing or as a reflection of the quality of their products. A brand's passion is produced and reflected by the people who work for that brand. And the quality of their products is reflective of their attention to detail and level of craftsmanship.

Why is there, then, this desire to hate on big companies that produce skis but the same hate is not directed towards their boots or bindings? Or is it, and I am just not seeing it?


You're not wrong, but for some people there is more to the conversation than quality of product. Also, hate is a strong word. Its not hard to see that for some the consideration of who actually owns the company that their $$ is going towards and how that $$ gets distributed. Obviously this opens the further discussion about how a major brand has the means to spend a larger quantity of money on things deemed "core" even if it is a lesser percentage than that of a smaller brand in terms of overall revenue. Pick your poison, its just sliding on snow.

My favorite thing that always pops up during this discussion is Salomon doesn't do anything for freeskiing. Of the various examples, the best imo is freeski tv. It has been around and putting out webisodes longer than pretty much every other series of similar format. If you're lacking stoke in your life there is season after season of well produced videos of every type of freeskiing. But Salomon does nothing for our community..
Jan 22 2016 8:05AM
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