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Women's Freesking: How does Kelly Sildaru win?!

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asadovnikoff
Posts: 49 - Karma: 264
Not everyone is going to agree with me here, but I think there is something to be said about the outcomes of the women's slopestyle finals. The fact alone that a 13 year old has the capacity to beat many other women who are much more experienced and who are paid as a living to be the best says alot about the sport of women's freesking. If Sildaru is this good at this age, then every other pro female skier must have been trash compared to her at the same age. Why is the female side of this sport progressing so slowly in most areas and so quickly, such as in Kelly's case, in very few?
Dec 13 2015 6:28PM
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yeahno
Posts: 4008 - Karma: 3,414
What does it say that she is definitely way better than you?
Dec 13 2015 6:35PM
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Queen_Selassie
Posts: 1430 - Karma: 1,363
asadovnikoffIf Sildaru is this good at this age, then every other pro female skier must have been trash compared to her at the same age.



First off not every girl gets into freesking at age 5 with the support and opportunities she has had haha. I remember seeing Kelly first ski at age 8 and she was already sponsored by Nike, K2 and Spy. imo, Kelly wants to be the best and she will be, because of her crazy progression rate. I would have loved to see Emma throw a sw 9 or something more than a sw 7 to progress her run but she didn't. Tiril killed it I thought and her sw 10 was awesome. The next few season I feel womens competitions will see a dramatic barrier between the girls who are doing new progressive stuff and the ones who are doing the same tricks year after year. X Games should be interesting, I hope Kelly brings the heat again.
Dec 13 2015 6:48PM
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ben_southworth
Posts: 1063 - Karma: 447
It's been a while since I have been associated w/ a team, but I think even on the guy's side, it is few and far between to find 13yo skiers that can do left and right sw 9s and 7s in freeway at breck. In regards to your question, my theory is both 'role models' to look up to and number of people pursuing freeskiing.

In regards to role models, women's freeskiing started notably after mens, so even when there became common names of professional women, they were way behind the men in terms of ability. So for the young girls who want to be pro skiers, that is the standard they need(ed) to hit.

There are also way less girls that seriously pursue skiing than guys. If you get one Sildaru out of every 1000 girls that pursue freeskiing, you get maybe 10-100 times as many guy Sildaru's (young prodigys) based on how many more guys are seriously pursuing skiing. It then continues at an exponential type rate, because if there are a whole bunch of guy skiers at a certain level, they are constantly forced to push boundaries and improve in order to podium at competitions, keep their sponsors, and generally keep their job as a skier. When there is a small field of professional women skiers, there is much less necessary pushing of the sport. And pushing boundaries / improving out of your own interest is just less effective than out of necessity to keep your job/sponsor.
Dec 13 2015 6:58PM
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PontusOlssonSNOW
Posts: 66 - Karma: 771
I said the same thing earlier, I'm pretty sure the snowboarder Marcus Kleveland would've been able to win a slopestyle contest at the age of 13 also. Does that mean that men's snowboarding is progressing slowly? No! Kids these days are just nuts.

Here's Marcus landing a Triple at age 13: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVljQ9JccsY

(Bonus) And this, A few weeks back, at the age of 16, he lands a Quad 18:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaA_nnfzrFE
Dec 13 2015 7:06PM
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danbrown
Posts: 11939 - Karma: 21,826
RIP to every women's slope career
Dec 13 2015 7:58PM
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Deepskier
Posts: 3267 - Karma: 4,829
Cody laplante (is a dick)
Dec 13 2015 8:47PM
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Mingg
Posts: 13977 - Karma: 49,303
> complains that women's skiing sucks

> girl comes in and kills it

> still complains that women's skiing sucks
Dec 13 2015 8:59PM
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Pachankz
Posts: 729 - Karma: 838
From what I've seen over the course of several years is women's skiing lacks the power and strength, I realize that'll piss people off, and they are women but seriously need to hit the weight room.
Dec 13 2015 9:01PM
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jca
Posts: 4171 - Karma: 6,311
I love watching the top girls in slope, some of em have way steezier tricks than the guys.
Dec 13 2015 9:19PM
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Titus69
Posts: 9329 - Karma: 17,816
Im stoked for Kelly, she finally got big enough to hit big jumps in comp. But my question is, why dont I see Lisa Zimmerman in comps a lot more? The girl can dub 12 while pro girls cant cork yet
Dec 13 2015 9:32PM
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Breaking_Rad
Posts: 478 - Karma: 1,092
Kelly is obviously a ski-bot and has been all over the world, is home-schooled and basically trains a LOT.

Not saying that is bad because that's basically how most every other kid gets good. Gus Kenworthy and Nick Goepper locked down tricks because of drive, repetition and a decent set of stones. And then they tried to get out to the hill every possible chance they could. Kelly has just been raised in an environment where skiing is priority #1. Now that she'll probably win most of these comps sleepwalking it has to be a pretty sweet gig. She can probably trot out the same run comp after comp and just wait for anybody to challenge her. I feel she'll wait a long time.

But locking in air-awareness like that at age 10-12 is obviously working to Kelly's advantage. She just has stuff down. It looks effortless where some of the other girls seem to struggle to get stuff around. Now others are going to have to try and play catch-up and that's a recipe for some tough falls.

Kelly also has a fair bit of support. I've heard the Estonian government has some decent money out there for her and obviously she's got some decent sponsors. You see a bit of that in the UK team, but they have nowhere near the progression rate of this little girl. Their young guns are ok, but not great for the support they get. The U.S.? There is like no support and outside of Maggie there isn't too much bright in the future there.

Side note: Watch the top 3 finishers in Womens Dew Snowboard SSD runs vs. Freeski...complain about women's freeski (it is getting SO much better w/ Tiril, Kelly, etc) and watch that snowboard. The girls that won SNB can actually do some things (doubles, etc), but that contest was beat. 180s? 50/50s?

Side note 2: Everything true about side note 1 flips for half pipe. Women's Freeski halpipe is just painful.
Dec 13 2015 9:32PM
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Breaking_Rad
Posts: 478 - Karma: 1,092
Titus69Im stoked for Kelly, she finally got big enough to hit big jumps in comp. But my question is, why dont I see Lisa Zimmerman in comps a lot more? The girl can dub 12 while pro girls cant cork yet


On paper Lisa should do well. You watch edits of her and insta-edits and things look great, but come comp time she seems to just go screwy. I don't think she has that comp attitude (or the nerves for it) and even if she does her strategy always seems off. I'm not sure I've ever seen her put down a clean run.

Watch her Olympic run. It was a hot mess. She clearly had the tricks, but she blew it out in qualifiers going with too much, too fast.
Dec 13 2015 9:36PM
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Breaking_Rad
Posts: 478 - Karma: 1,092
Titus69Im stoked for Kelly, she finally got big enough to hit big jumps in comp. But my question is, why dont I see Lisa Zimmerman in comps a lot more? The girl can dub 12 while pro girls cant cork yet


On paper Lisa should do well. You watch edits of her and insta-edits and things look great, but come comp time she seems to just go screwy. I don't think she has that comp attitude (or the nerves for it) and even if she does her strategy always seems off. I'm not sure I've ever seen her put down a clean run.

Watch her Olympic run. It was a hot mess. She clearly had the tricks, but she blew it out in qualifiers going with too much, too fast.
Dec 13 2015 9:36PM
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edai
Posts: 4988 - Karma: 4,654
If mens skiing wasnt already so advanced the same thing might be happening to us, hell it already did look at Torin when he was 15. The fact is women are growing into pros, but weve got kids being raised as pros competing and training on the same level. I just dont want skiing to turn into a situation like dance or gymnastics where the only real competitors start the sport at 5 year olds under proffesional trainers.
Dec 13 2015 9:42PM
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Mingg
Posts: 13977 - Karma: 49,303
eazy.I just dont want skiing to turn into a situation like dance or gymnastics where the only real competitors start the sport at 5 year olds under proffesional trainers.


That is basically inevitable at this point.
Dec 13 2015 9:45PM
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Titus69
Posts: 9329 - Karma: 17,816
Breaking_RadKelly is obviously a ski-bot and has been all over the world, is home-schooled and basically trains a LOT.

Not saying that is bad because that's basically how most every other kid gets good. Gus Kenworthy and Nick Goepper locked down tricks because of drive, repetition and a decent set of stones. And then they tried to get out to the hill every possible chance they could. Kelly has just been raised in an environment where skiing is priority #1. Now that she'll probably win most of these comps sleepwalking it has to be a pretty sweet gig. She can probably trot out the same run comp after comp and just wait for anybody to challenge her. I feel she'll wait a long time.

But locking in air-awareness like that at age 10-12 is obviously working to Kelly's advantage. She just has stuff down. It looks effortless where some of the other girls seem to struggle to get stuff around. Now others are going to have to try and play catch-up and that's a recipe for some tough falls.

Kelly also has a fair bit of support. I've heard the Estonian government has some decent money out there for her and obviously she's got some decent sponsors. You see a bit of that in the UK team, but they have nowhere near the progression rate of this little girl. Their young guns are ok, but not great for the support they get. The U.S.? There is like no support and outside of Maggie there isn't too much bright in the future there.

Side note: Watch the top 3 finishers in Womens Dew Snowboard SSD runs vs. Freeski...complain about women's freeski (it is getting SO much better w/ Tiril, Kelly, etc) and watch that snowboard. The girls that won SNB can actually do some things (doubles, etc), but that contest was beat. 180s? 50/50s?

Side note 2: Everything true about side note 1 flips for half pipe. Women's Freeski halpipe is just painful.




Theres lots of kids that are just being trained into pros, just not as known as her. Look at Aspen Spora, the kid just like Kelly was an internet trend at a very young age and now theyre both 15 or under and are getting paid. Theyre also both great for promoting brands since theyre young and energetic kids that shred.

Womens pipe is hell, I get more excited watching paint dry than I do watching pipe.
Dec 13 2015 9:52PM
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Mingg
Posts: 13977 - Karma: 49,303
MinggThat is basically inevitable at this point.


Not sure why this is downvoted but I would like to elaborate on my theory.

Freeskiing started way back when skiers didn't like the idea of comps and structure and they wanted to do their own thing, correct?

From what I've been able to tell, many skiers skied normally first, discovered park, excelled, started competing. With the idea of these huge comps(x games, olympics etc) the idea of competition is introduced to parents and young kids. That becomes all that they know about the sport. Freeskiing to them STARTS as competition... where as you and I started just hot lapping with homies. (probably - I am only assuming thats how most started)

So all these people who don't really understand it, are going to see these bigs comps and think "wow maybe my kid could do this!" and sign them up for a freestyle program and now that kid only knows competitive skiing. Which is sad... but that's what will happen. Maybe not in the next couple years but eventually I can see that becoming the norm... which is sad and exactly opposite of the idea of freeskiing.
Dec 13 2015 11:26PM
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asadovnikoff
Posts: 49 - Karma: 264
Mingg> complains that women's skiing sucks

> girl comes in and kills it

> still complains that women's skiing sucks



Im not complaining it sucks. I just feel like the sport is progressing in such an ambiguous way, with some girls like Kelly being so talented and others in the same comps not having close to the ability or ambition in youthful ages.
Dec 14 2015 12:19AM
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Breaking_Rad
Posts: 478 - Karma: 1,092
asadovnikoffIm not complaining it sucks. I just feel like the sport is progressing in such an ambiguous way, with some girls like Kelly being so talented and others in the same comps not having close to the ability or ambition in youthful ages.



I'm not sure it is totally true. Snowboard halfpipe (for women) currently going the same way with Chloe Kim sort of shooting to the top starting at 13. She was probably the best rider at the time, but too young to go to the Olympics.

You could argue men's snowboard halfpipe went the same way back in 2003 when a 16-year old Shaun White started changing that comp scene.

There are game-changers and Kelly could usher in a whole new set of talent or she could be like Kelly Clark and just ride it out for years largely on the same run waiting for somebody to challenge her. It basically took her whole career for Chloe Kim to show up.

So I'm not sure it is necessarily random. Happens in a lot of sports. Kelly Slater, Tiger Woods, Lindsey Vonn, Mikeala Shiffrin. Young kids come into the scene and then just dominate and then nobody can really knock them off that podium consistently.

Again, not sure the US really has a strong scene for that now. It seems all the great riders are coming out of Europe that are pushing progression on the women's side. Maggie probably the exception as I think she has switch 10, but certainly not a lot of both way tricks and I think I've maybe only seen a switch cork 5 as her only inverted trick in a comp.
Dec 14 2015 1:44AM
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Breaking_Rad
Posts: 478 - Karma: 1,092
asadovnikoffNot everyone is going to agree with me here, but I think there is something to be said about the outcomes of the women's slopestyle finals. The fact alone that a 13 year old has the capacity to beat many other women who are much more experienced and who are paid as a living to be the best says alot about the sport of women's freesking. If Sildaru is this good at this age, then every other pro female skier must have been trash compared to her at the same age. Why is the female side of this sport progressing so slowly in most areas and so quickly, such as in Kelly's case, in very few?


Also, not to rip your premise, but a lot of these girls aren't really paid "as a living." They are more like professional ski bums. Bobby Brown, Gus, and some of the bigger names might be banking it, but I'm not sure Devin Logan or any of the other Olympic medalists or X-Game winners are r

So that alone might scare a bunch of prospective people away. It is a slog and you really have to love it because the Keri Hermans, Kim Lamarres

BUT it will be interesting to see what happens when a game-changing girl is back on the scene. Sarah Burke was formerly that 'game changer' and she was starting to really make a living at it. Kelly doesn't seem to possess the personality of a Sarah (and not simply because she doesn't speak English...Chloe Kim is in the same sort of place and much more personable, quirky and marketable), but I think Kelly will do her speaking with comp wins and kick ass edits. It has gotten her this far.

But Sarah inspired a batch of girls to get out there. Maybe Kelly, at such a young age doing such massive things, will inspire a batch of girls to take it to the next level.
Dec 14 2015 2:00AM
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safety.third
Posts: 217 - Karma: 459
MinggFrom what I've been able to tell, many skiers skied normally first, discovered park, excelled, started competing.


the best skiers i know, park or otherwise, all grew up racing. they are also the people who seem to love skiing the most.
Dec 14 2015 3:30AM
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Hackster
Posts: 145 - Karma: -11
Titus69Im stoked for Kelly, she finally got big enough to hit big jumps in comp. But my question is, why dont I see Lisa Zimmerman in comps a lot more? The girl can dub 12 while pro girls cant cork yet


Valid question. As people said Kelly has apparently got tons of support and structured training from very young age on - as does her brother. So she's got a rock solid foundation.

Lisa accidentally stumbled into the scene 4-5 years ago coming from figure skating where she was really good at and also competed a lot in. So shaky comp nerves should not be the factor here. No one knows how well structured her training really is but her approach appears to be off somewhat. It seems while all other girls confidently progress past her she is going backwards instead and never able to throw her best tricks other than over features she spends an entire week on. A really selective course like this year's Dew Tour along with some iffy conditions revealt her true standing in the pack which isn't even top ten and you can expect her to get crushed in any comp going forward. In a mere Big Air show it might look a little different but maybe she should have stuck with figure skating instead.
Dec 14 2015 8:03AM
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Breaking_Rad
Posts: 478 - Karma: 1,092
ebotdzthe best skiers i know, park or otherwise, all grew up racing. they are also the people who seem to love skiing the most.


Best skiers I know grew up skiing moguls. Can flat out can ski anything.
Dec 14 2015 9:08AM
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Lab_or_bust
Posts: 90 - Karma: 86
Kelly is just insane she can do things some 13 year old boys can't. But have any of you ever seen here little brother henry shred? He is insane
Dec 14 2015 9:14AM
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Titus69
Posts: 9329 - Karma: 17,816
Lab_or_bustKelly is just insane she can do things some 13 year old boys can't. But have any of you ever seen here little brother henry shred? He is insane


Kids gonna be nuts, hes growing up in the same way Kelly did, homeschooled and skiing 300 days a year.
Dec 14 2015 1:43PM
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Mingg
Posts: 13977 - Karma: 49,303
ebotdzthe best skiers i know, park or otherwise, all grew up racing. they are also the people who seem to love skiing the most.


Yes... and freeskiers at the very beginning also were involved in aerials, racing etc at first. The reason they moved to freeskiing was to break away from the structure and to do their own thing.
Dec 14 2015 1:48PM
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safety.third
Posts: 217 - Karma: 459
MinggYes... and freeskiers at the very beginning also were involved in aerials, racing etc at first. The reason they moved to freeskiing was to break away from the structure and to do their own thing.


I don't understand how that's relevant?
Dec 14 2015 4:53PM
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asadovnikoff
Posts: 49 - Karma: 264
Breaking_RadBut Sarah inspired a batch of girls to get out there. Maybe Kelly, at such a young age doing such massive things, will inspire a batch of girls to take it to the next level.


I mean if she can inspire the next gens of freeskier women to compete and improve at that level then I'm all for it. Im kinda just commenting on the fact that a few young girls can doing difficult off axis tricks are easily knocking off pros who can barely throw a cork sev.
Dec 14 2015 6:27PM
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BWalmer
Posts: 9141 - Karma: 12,883
It's not really the best example (because a lot of people hate them), but both Ryan Sheckler and Nyjah Houston won major competition medals at young ages and are consider by most to still be at the top of their sport. Sometimes someone really young, focused and skilled can come in a win - gender, experience and level of competition don't really matter. Kelly has been crushing it for a couple years now in edits, only reason she hasn't competed before was cause she was too small to get enough speed to clear the jumps. I don't think a single one of the competitors feels bad about losing to her or that a single one of them has nothing but respect for her.
Dec 14 2015 7:45PM
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