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No helmets in football - More or less concussions?

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milk_man
Posts: 5252 - Karma: 5,978
I did not check to see if there's a thread on this. We always talk about helmets in skiing, and I think it's pretty obvious that wearing a helmet skiing will prevent concussions--sure you might have more confidence and go bigger, but it won't be by much.

In football though... Without helmets would they really lead with their head when they tackle?? (Since that's how the concussions happen). From experience, I don't think they would. So using that reasoning.. If the NFL stopped using helmets, would the number of concussions go down? Or are they savage enough to still put their body at risk even without a helmet?


Why am I making this thread? Well, I either care about the issue or I'm putting off studying for finals. Not sure which one.
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Dec 12 2015 3:23PM
55 19
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Spagett+
Posts: 3499 - Karma: 14,884
milk_manWhy am I making this thread? Well, I like penis.


2015 is so progressive omg
Dec 12 2015 3:27PM
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Deforestation
Posts: 1606 - Karma: 3,194
Sure, there might be less concussions, but that's because they wouldn't fucking hit eachother.

"Oh, you got the ball Marshawn? It's good, we can't tackle you because we don't want to split our heads open".

Dumbest idea ever.
Dec 12 2015 3:35PM
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im_Mongo
Posts: 109 - Karma: 177
You can't take away helmets without taking away hard shoulder pads so both would have to go and that would really change the game. I also don't really think there needs to be any changes except for better concussion protocol as the NFL is way less strict than other sports. I can't comment at an amateur level because I only watch NFL and (when they are on) College games.
Dec 12 2015 3:39PM
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cool_name
Posts: 4295 - Karma: 3,131
the simple ansewer would be is there more or less concusions in rugby, I don't know the answer, but I think if you could find the answer to that it would basically answer your question
Dec 12 2015 3:43PM
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im_Mongo
Posts: 109 - Karma: 177
I also don't think that they would hit less hard just there is so much money in football and most people don't really understand the mindset that you have to be in to play a high standard of any full contact sport. Rugby union and league has hits just as big (not at the same frequency) with no pads or helmet and there are way less old players who are braindead after their careers because there is a proper concussion protocol (however there is still a bit of a concussion problem).
Dec 12 2015 3:46PM
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im_Mongo
Posts: 109 - Karma: 177
cool_namethe simple ansewer would be is there more or less concusions in rugby, I don't know the answer, but I think if you could find the answer to that it would basically answer your question


I know this sounds like it would make sense but I think the crap concussion protocol in football is a much bigger reason. Players being allowed to play to quickly after having them results in reoccurring concussions and other long term problems.
Dec 12 2015 3:50PM
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*DUMBCAN*
Posts: 2447 - Karma: 5,628
cool_namethe simple ansewer would be is there more or less concusions in rugby, I don't know the answer, but I think if you could find the answer to that it would basically answer your question


Hits are illegal in rugby though. You have to tackle low.

IIRC there were 15 concussions over 15 matches during last winters Six Nations (big European international tournament), but I don't know how that compares to Football. Rugby concussions are much much rarer at lower levels.
Dec 12 2015 4:02PM
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im_Mongo
Posts: 109 - Karma: 177
*DUMBCAN*Hits are illegal in rugby though. You have to tackle low.

IIRC there were 15 concussions over 15 matches during last winters Six Nations (big European international tournament), but I don't know how that compares to Football. Rugby concussions are much much rarer at lower levels.


*Hits with out arms wrapped are illegal and they are are quite lenient as to what is a wrap.

You also don't have to tackle low with choke tackles and such it is really just below shoulders. I am pretty sure you're not allowed to tackle above there for football. Also they really aren't that uncommon I played for a top school team and we would have near one a game that dropped a bit for my club side but they still occur every couple of games.
Dec 12 2015 4:08PM
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im_Mongo
Posts: 109 - Karma: 177
Isis_rocksSure, there might be less concussions, but that's because they wouldn't fucking hit eachother.

"Oh, you got the ball Marshawn? It's good, we can't tackle you because we don't want to split our heads open".

Dumbest idea ever.


Missed this. Do you think this guy would give a shit if had a helmet or not? Oh wait he already doesn't.
Dec 12 2015 4:11PM
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Deforestation
Posts: 1606 - Karma: 3,194
im_MongoMissed this. Do you think this guy would give a shit if had a helmet or not? Oh wait he already doesn't.


Wow... Literally one in a thousand NFL players would do this in a normal regular season game.
Dec 12 2015 7:44PM
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im_Mongo
Posts: 109 - Karma: 177
Isis_rocksWow... Literally one in a thousand NFL players would do this in a normal regular season game.


one in a thousand players in the NFL will take on players with helmets when they don't have helmets on? So...
If no one had helmets then they would tackle them? Whats your point? Do you not think that you can play contact sport without a helmet?
Dec 12 2015 8:15PM
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Deforestation
Posts: 1606 - Karma: 3,194
im_Mongoone in a thousand players in the NFL will take on players with helmets when they don't have helmets on? So...
If no one had helmets then they would tackle them? Whats your point? Do you not think that you can play contact sport without a helmet?


To answer your last question, yes.
Dec 12 2015 8:54PM
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im_Mongo
Posts: 109 - Karma: 177
Isis_rocksTo answer your last question, yes.


What is rugby?
Dec 12 2015 9:17PM
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SammyDubz
Posts: 2168 - Karma: 7,222
Actually writing my senior thesis on why more padded helmets are not needed in lacrosse. It's an interesting debate to say the least.
Dec 13 2015 12:21AM
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Dddsz
Posts: 3042 - Karma: 7,326
My grandpa still has his leather helmet from when he played college football. He said there was not much of a concussion problem back then. Could have been from the lack of records though.
Dec 13 2015 10:06AM
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Connor_Sullivan
Posts: 479 - Karma: 1,686
Do any leagues have MIPS in their helmets? I feel like having something to protect from exactly the same impact that a head to head collision might help to prevent Concussions. Its not just a blunt impact like running face first into a brick wall, helmets slide on each other and heads tilt, maybe its time that they adopt something that was ore or less designed for the same impacts that players are receiving.
Dec 13 2015 10:32AM
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Aharrelson358
Posts: 356 - Karma: 478
So I currently play football at The University of Alabama, so I feel qualified to give some insight. We have a very strict concussion policy. Every player that comes in takes a baseline concussion balance test before their first practice. After a possible concussion, they use that baseline to retest and there is a certain threshold set by the NCAA that a player must pass before continuing to practice or play. As far as the helmets go, I think it would be a two way street. Players would definitely be less willing to spear someone with their head, but broken noses, sinuses, eye sockets, and jaws would go through the roof. While it might reduce the number of concussions, it wouldn't make the game statistically safer. I think the real improvement needs to come with the technology in football helmets. My helmet has been essentially the same since I started playing football in middle school and I'm now a collegiate senior. They have done nothing on that front, and I think that's where the big breakthrough on concussion prevention will come.
Dec 13 2015 10:35AM
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S.J.W
Posts: 7609 - Karma: 31,186
American football players are pussies with all the armour they wear.

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/800706/NRL-2015---BIGGEST-HITS

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/800707/Biggest-AFL-Hits--Modern-Era-
Dec 13 2015 10:45AM
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jason...
Posts: 9006 - Karma: 780
wearing a helmet in skiing doesn't prevent concussions it prevents you from fracturing your skull. your brain still rattles around inside your head when you have a helmet on.
Dec 13 2015 10:50AM
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im_Mongo
Posts: 109 - Karma: 177
Aharrelson358So I currently play football at The University of Alabama, so I feel qualified to give some insight. We have a very strict concussion policy. Every player that comes in takes a baseline concussion balance test before their first practice. After a possible concussion, they use that baseline to retest and there is a certain threshold set by the NCAA that a player must pass before continuing to practice or play. As far as the helmets go, I think it would be a two way street. Players would definitely be less willing to spear someone with their head, but broken noses, sinuses, eye sockets, and jaws would go through the roof. While it might reduce the number of concussions, it wouldn't make the game statistically safer. I think the real improvement needs to come with the technology in football helmets. My helmet has been essentially the same since I started playing football in middle school and I'm now a collegiate senior. They have done nothing on that front, and I think that's where the big breakthrough on concussion prevention will come.


Baseline testing is good but I know so many people that have dumbed down their baseline.
Dec 13 2015 1:24PM
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Snowgoner
Posts: 5047 - Karma: 965
Aharrelson358So I currently play football at The University of Alabama,

now that's pretty neat
Dec 13 2015 1:42PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
We all know that science isn't your strong point so I don't think you should be looking into it but the answer is yes if you take helmets out of football there will probably be less concussions being that people will not dive into other people head first at full speed.
Dec 13 2015 2:05PM
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Aharrelson358
Posts: 356 - Karma: 478
im_MongoBaseline testing is good but I know so many people that have dumbed down their baseline.

There's no way to dumb it down. It's a balance test blind folded so it's really tough to dumb it down. The athletic trainers have a threshold manual and below a certain point you have to redo it
Dec 13 2015 2:20PM
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milk_man
Posts: 5252 - Karma: 5,978
nocturnalWe all know that science isn't your strong point


Definitely not. However I'm holding a solid B in Biology I this semester so I know something...
Dec 13 2015 3:01PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
milk_manDefinitely not. However I'm holding a solid B in Biology I this semester so I know something...

Yeah biology at Liberty University doesn't count
Dec 13 2015 3:05PM
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milk_man
Posts: 5252 - Karma: 5,978
nocturnalYeah biology at Liberty University doesn't count


Well hey most of the warriors of NS only have high school biology in the books sooo
Dec 13 2015 3:34PM
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im_Mongo
Posts: 109 - Karma: 177
Aharrelson358There's no way to dumb it down. It's a balance test blind folded so it's really tough to dumb it down. The athletic trainers have a threshold manual and below a certain point you have to redo it


Ah well then thats different to the one my friends in Aus did then
Dec 13 2015 4:05PM
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Peter.
Posts: 23796 - Karma: 13,014
Aharrelson358There's no way to dumb it down. It's a balance test blind folded so it's really tough to dumb it down. The athletic trainers have a threshold manual and below a certain point you have to redo it


how did you end up on a skiing website? just curious
Dec 13 2015 4:10PM
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Aharrelson358
Posts: 356 - Karma: 478
Peter.how did you end up on a skiing website? just curious


I'm an avid skier. I skied 12 days last year and will get a lot more than that this year. I've been skiing since I was four. My mom always had meetings in Aspen once a year so we'd go because it was paid for by her work and I fell in love. There's a pretty sweet terrain park in North Carolina called Appalacian ski mountain so I get my park laps there and save all year and take a trip out west every spring break. Contrary to popular belief, there are some civilized and educated people who reside in Alabama. I played 11 years of ice hockey and don't hunt. Stereotypes don't cover everyone haha
Dec 13 2015 4:53PM
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milk_man
Posts: 5252 - Karma: 5,978
Aharrelson358I skied 12 days last year and will get a lot more than that this year.


That's nothing man there's some guys on here who ski 400 days a year
Dec 13 2015 5:07PM
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Aharrelson358
Posts: 356 - Karma: 478
milk_manThat's nothing man there's some guys on here who ski 400 days a year


Oh man I know. I just can't afford to get passed 69 days
Dec 13 2015 5:14PM
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TZA.
Posts: 1462 - Karma: 181
this is the most stupid question ive ever seen
Dec 13 2015 5:14PM
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milk_man
Posts: 5252 - Karma: 5,978
TZA.this is the most stupid question ive ever seen


*Stupidest
Dec 13 2015 5:29PM
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Aharrelson358
Posts: 356 - Karma: 478
Aharrelson358Oh man I know. I just can't afford to get passed 69 days


Past. Dammit I swear I'm not stupid.
Dec 13 2015 5:40PM
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DanielPlainview
Posts: 391 - Karma: 1,707
Just did a paper on concussions in football and brought this up(removing helmets and pads. Ultimately there probably would be less concussions, but the risk of deadly skull fractures, neck injuries etc. would skyrocket.
Dec 13 2015 6:16PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
milk_manWell hey most of the warriors of NS only have high school biology in the books sooo


Yeah but most of them don't believe people were riding around on dinosaurs, and you havent even finished a general biology course and now you think you're an expert?
Dec 13 2015 6:21PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51744 - Karma: 163,523
If the salvation army had a nickle for every time this thread came up they might stop shaking their bells at me and demanding my change.
Dec 13 2015 6:22PM
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yeahno
Posts: 4008 - Karma: 3,414
Aharrelson358So I currently play football at The University of Alabama, so I feel qualified to give some insight. .


yeah.... no...
Dec 13 2015 6:31PM
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.Rybak.
Posts: 9017 - Karma: 9,864
Aharrelson358So I currently play football at The University of Alabama, so I feel qualified to give some insight. We have a very strict concussion policy. Every player that comes in takes a baseline concussion balance test before their first practice. After a possible concussion, they use that baseline to retest and there is a certain threshold set by the NCAA that a player must pass before continuing to practice or play. As far as the helmets go, I think it would be a two way street. Players would definitely be less willing to spear someone with their head, but broken noses, sinuses, eye sockets, and jaws would go through the roof. While it might reduce the number of concussions, it wouldn't make the game statistically safer. I think the real improvement needs to come with the technology in football helmets. My helmet has been essentially the same since I started playing football in middle school and I'm now a collegiate senior. They have done nothing on that front, and I think that's where the big breakthrough on concussion prevention will come.


Your grammar was way too good to be a player for Alabama. I don't believe you.
Dec 13 2015 6:51PM
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.Rybak.
Posts: 9017 - Karma: 9,864
Aharrelson358Past. Dammit I swear I'm not stupid.


.Rybak.Your grammar was way too good to be a player for Alabama. I don't believe you.


Also,



and I checked the roster. I believe you now. It's good to know that there's someone cool who plays for bama.
Dec 13 2015 6:57PM
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edai
Posts: 4990 - Karma: 4,677
Aharrelson358So I currently play football at The University of Alabama, so I feel qualified to give some insight. We have a very strict concussion policy. Every player that comes in takes a baseline concussion balance test before their first practice. After a possible concussion, they use that baseline to retest and there is a certain threshold set by the NCAA that a player must pass before continuing to practice or play. As far as the helmets go, I think it would be a two way street. Players would definitely be less willing to spear someone with their head, but broken noses, sinuses, eye sockets, and jaws would go through the roof. While it might reduce the number of concussions, it wouldn't make the game statistically safer. I think the real improvement needs to come with the technology in football helmets. My helmet has been essentially the same since I started playing football in middle school and I'm now a collegiate senior. They have done nothing on that front, and I think that's where the big breakthrough on concussion prevention will come.


Regardless of the fact that you've already been disproven or probably have because i neglected to read the thread im still gonna respond. This is all bullshit, well, it's true, but you don't need to be a college player to know this information and you'd know that if you really were lol. Every high school player in the country for multiple sports takes a concussion test. The new speed flex by Riddell uses a compression plate to absorb impact, thats the most revolutionary helmet so far. Even then, ive seen the model shatter. And no, people wouldnt play football if they coudnt wear helmets because everyones head would explode. Ray Lewis exerted 1200lbs/sq ft when tackling, think about what guys like jj watt or greg hardy could do
Dec 13 2015 7:00PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
eazy.And no, people wouldnt play football if they coudnt wear helmets because everyones head would explode. Ray Lewis exerted 1200lbs/sq ft when tackling, think about what guys like jj watt or greg hardy could do


The whole argument is that people wouldn't go one hundred percent and do dangerous things without pads.
Dec 13 2015 7:19PM
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Aharrelson358
Posts: 356 - Karma: 478
eazy.Regardless of the fact that you've already been disproven or probably have because i neglected to read the thread im still gonna respond. This is all bullshit, well, it's true, but you don't need to be a college player to know this information and you'd know that if you really were lol. Every high school player in the country for multiple sports takes a concussion test. The new speed flex by Riddell uses a compression plate to absorb impact, thats the most revolutionary helmet so far. Even then, ive seen the model shatter. And no, people wouldnt play football if they coudnt wear helmets because everyones head would explode. Ray Lewis exerted 1200lbs/sq ft when tackling, think about what guys like jj watt or greg hardy could do


If you had read the the thread, it's been proven that I do play for Alabama. Check the roster and my IG is th same as my username here. I didn't say that it was required for me to play college football to know that, but the concussion testing I've been through at Alabama has been vastly more intensive and comprehensive than I ever had in high school. I merely used it as a way to show I wasn't some idiot sitting behind a computer desk who had no idea what I am talking about. Concussions on a level that cause ALS and Post-Concussion Syndrome don't come from your average high school hit, and this discussion really isn't talking about high school. Exactly as you stated, the issue come when you put the best of the best together on a day in and day out basis. Helmets now are not fit to withstand that kind of contact. The fact that you referred to the speed flex as revolutionary is 100% false. I've had several teammates get concussions in that helmet and none shattered. Also, only a few members of each team wear the new Speed. Many wear Schutt or older Riddell models without the new technology, such as myself. It clearly isn't that big of an improvement if they don't require everyone to wear them at a level where cost isn't the issue. Bottom line, there is no helmet with truly proper protection for top level D1 football and the NFL. That's what I meant when there needs vast improvements on helmets that are used today.
Dec 13 2015 7:26PM
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skier58284
Posts: 1705 - Karma: 5,366
Spagett+2015 is so progressive omg, and it makes me happy because it makes people accepting of the fact that I like penis even more than OP does


Too progressive m8
Dec 13 2015 8:08PM
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skier58284
Posts: 1705 - Karma: 5,366
Wtf that actually worked, when did it become possible to quote things that were never said?
Dec 13 2015 8:09PM
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milk_man
Posts: 5252 - Karma: 5,978
nocturnalYeah but most of them don't believe people were riding around on dinosaurs, and you havent even finished a general biology course and now you think you're an expert?


Yessir. 100% expert
Dec 13 2015 8:43PM
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Peter.
Posts: 23796 - Karma: 13,014
Aharrelson358I'm an avid skier. I skied 12 days last year and will get a lot more than that this year. I've been skiing since I was four. My mom always had meetings in Aspen once a year so we'd go because it was paid for by her work and I fell in love. There's a pretty sweet terrain park in North Carolina called Appalacian ski mountain so I get my park laps there and save all year and take a trip out west every spring break. Contrary to popular belief, there are some civilized and educated people who reside in Alabama. I played 11 years of ice hockey and don't hunt. Stereotypes don't cover everyone haha


that's awesome. you need to bring some sort of NS sign to the cotton bowl. you'd be internet famous
Dec 13 2015 9:27PM
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CHORIZO
Posts: 2003 - Karma: 10,039
will smith is the only one that gets concussions, so this is irrelevant
Dec 13 2015 9:37PM
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edai
Posts: 4990 - Karma: 4,677
Aharrelson358If you had read the the thread, it's been proven that I do play for Alabama. Check the roster and my IG is th same as my username here. I didn't say that it was required for me to play college football to know that, but the concussion testing I've been through at Alabama has been vastly more intensive and comprehensive than I ever had in high school. I merely used it as a way to show I wasn't some idiot sitting behind a computer desk who had no idea what I am talking about. Concussions on a level that cause ALS and Post-Concussion Syndrome don't come from your average high school hit, and this discussion really isn't talking about high school. Exactly as you stated, the issue come when you put the best of the best together on a day in and day out basis. Helmets now are not fit to withstand that kind of contact. The fact that you referred to the speed flex as revolutionary is 100% false. I've had several teammates get concussions in that helmet and none shattered. Also, only a few members of each team wear the new Speed. Many wear Schutt or older Riddell models without the new technology, such as myself. It clearly isn't that big of an improvement if they don't require everyone to wear them at a level where cost isn't the issue. Bottom line, there is no helmet with truly proper protection for top level D1 football and the NFL. That's what I meant when there needs vast improvements on helmets that are used today.


well shit i stand corrected, thats fucking cool. my bad for coming off as a prick just sounded too good to be true honestly.
Dec 13 2015 9:37PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
milk_manYessir. 100% expert


Question one: did evolution happen, or did God make all humans?
Dec 13 2015 9:55PM
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