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Preserving Snow?

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qyleberry
Posts: 788 - Karma: 2,211
I went to Walmart yesterday and shoveled a snow pile into a garbage can and put it into my car...
We have not had snow for probably 3 weeks so it was a shock there was snow there...

As I shoveled I noticed there was just an outside layer of dirt, the snow was clean as you dug in...
I brought it back to my house and skied, as seen in the picture....


Then the next day after school the in-run melted, but the jump looked like someone just through sand all over it...

So what I am asking is, does dirt preserve snow?

I have also seen park crew throwing stuff on jumps and stuff... What is that? Does that help preserve the snow?

I tried google and I couldn't really fine anything so Does anyone know?
Dec 9 2015 11:59PM
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qyleberry
Posts: 788 - Karma: 2,211
Sorry I meant to say threw sand
Dec 10 2015 12:00AM
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qyleberry
Posts: 788 - Karma: 2,211
Sorry for the spelling errors... and the park crew was throwing some kind of salt or salt looking material on the jumps
Dec 10 2015 12:02AM
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270on420out
Posts: 7515 - Karma: 51,160
The salt hardens the lips of the jumps/rails.
Dec 10 2015 12:05AM
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qyleberry
Posts: 788 - Karma: 2,211
THEDIRTYBUBBLEThe salt hardens the lips of the jumps/rails.


Oh ok, and is it actually just salt or does it have a specific name?
Dec 10 2015 12:08AM
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E-Bracht
Posts: 52 - Karma: 71
qyleberryOh ok, and is it actually just salt or does it have a specific name?


I'm pretty sure it's normal crushed salt
Dec 10 2015 12:56AM
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E-Bracht
Posts: 52 - Karma: 71
qyleberryOh ok, and is it actually just salt or does it have a specific name?


I'm pretty sure it's normal crushed salt
Dec 10 2015 12:56AM
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qyleberry
Posts: 788 - Karma: 2,211
E-BrachtI'm pretty sure it's normal crushed salt


Ok thank you!
Dec 10 2015 1:03AM
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powderwhor
Posts: 380 - Karma: 725
Its rock salt. Park crews do use it to preserve jumps and lips when its warm and slushy out. But be careful, it probably won't help on your setup when you have hardly any snow. Salt actually melts snow, which is why people throw it down on their driveways and plow crews throw it down on highways and roads for de-icing (i.e. road salt). How it works on jumps though is it melts the very top layer of snow creating a film or thin layer of water over the jump. As I'm sure you know, slushy or old snow is essentially just small kernels of ice. So the salt causes the top layer of snow melt over what is essentially a bunch of tiny pieces of ice. The film or layer of water fills in all the gaps between the tiny pieces of ice and quickly freezes and adheres into a harder layer that makes the snow more durable and therefore last longer. This takes a few minutes to happen, which is why park crew stands around for a few minutes after salting jumps before letting anybody hit them. It also only lasts a few hours at best, especially if its really hot out.

And theres your snow science lesson for the day :)
Dec 10 2015 8:41AM
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qyleberry
Posts: 788 - Karma: 2,211
powderwhorIts rock salt. Park crews do use it to preserve jumps and lips when its warm and slushy out. But be careful, it probably won't help on your setup when you have hardly any snow. Salt actually melts snow, which is why people throw it down on their driveways and plow crews throw it down on highways and roads for de-icing (i.e. road salt). How it works on jumps though is it melts the very top layer of snow creating a film or thin layer of water over the jump. As I'm sure you know, slushy or old snow is essentially just small kernels of ice. So the salt causes the top layer of snow melt over what is essentially a bunch of tiny pieces of ice. The film or layer of water fills in all the gaps between the tiny pieces of ice and quickly freezes and adheres into a harder layer that makes the snow more durable and therefore last longer. This takes a few minutes to happen, which is why park crew stands around for a few minutes after salting jumps before letting anybody hit them. It also only lasts a few hours at best, especially if its really hot out.

And theres your snow science lesson for the day :)

Thank you that helps a lot, +k to you
Dec 11 2015 4:18PM
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E-Bracht
Posts: 52 - Karma: 71
powderwhorIts rock salt. Park crews do use it to preserve jumps and lips when its warm and slushy out. But be careful, it probably won't help on your setup when you have hardly any snow. Salt actually melts snow, which is why people throw it down on their driveways and plow crews throw it down on highways and roads for de-icing (i.e. road salt). How it works on jumps though is it melts the very top layer of snow creating a film or thin layer of water over the jump. As I'm sure you know, slushy or old snow is essentially just small kernels of ice. So the salt causes the top layer of snow melt over what is essentially a bunch of tiny pieces of ice. The film or layer of water fills in all the gaps between the tiny pieces of ice and quickly freezes and adheres into a harder layer that makes the snow more durable and therefore last longer. This takes a few minutes to happen, which is why park crew stands around for a few minutes after salting jumps before letting anybody hit them. It also only lasts a few hours at best, especially if its really hot out.

And theres your snow science lesson for the day :)


Thanks, I couldn't remember it was called rock salt. Also, rock salt is just normal salt that hasn't been treated to remove impurities like table salt has. Just thought I'd mention 'cause I was curious if there is any difference.
Dec 15 2015 12:31PM
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Aharrelson358
Posts: 356 - Karma: 478
http://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/solutions/faq/why-salt-cools-icewater.shtml

Thought it it would be faster to find a site than typing it all out. Here's a quick idea as to how salt preserves snow.
Dec 15 2015 3:19PM
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qyleberry
Posts: 788 - Karma: 2,211
Aharrelson358http://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/solutions/faq/why-salt-cools-icewater.shtml

Thought it it would be faster to find a site than typing it all out. Here's a quick idea as to how salt preserves snow.


So if you put salt on the snow it will melt it a little, but preserve the rest? Or is that wrong?
Dec 15 2015 5:38PM
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Aharrelson358
Posts: 356 - Karma: 478
Adding ice salt to the top of snow that is 1 meter thick actually makes the surface harder because the snow that is below the surface is colder than the saltwater freezing point. What I mean is, once the surface needs a freezing point of -5C to freeze, that extra amount of cold comes from the snow below which may be at -10C. Although the air is 10C, the snow and ice below the surface keeps the top layer of snow/ice colder than the 0C it would normally be.
Just because water freezes at 0C doesn't mean it can't be colder than 0C, which is why the snow below allows all of this to happen.

To give one more example, if there were 0.5 meters of snow on road, it would actually be worse to put ice salt down because the top layer would become colder. That is why roads need to be plowed before salt is distributed.
Dec 15 2015 5:45PM
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qyleberry
Posts: 788 - Karma: 2,211
Aharrelson358Adding ice salt to the top of snow that is 1 meter thick actually makes the surface harder because the snow that is below the surface is colder than the saltwater freezing point. What I mean is, once the surface needs a freezing point of -5C to freeze, that extra amount of cold comes from the snow below which may be at -10C. Although the air is 10C, the snow and ice below the surface keeps the top layer of snow/ice colder than the 0C it would normally be.
Just because water freezes at 0C doesn't mean it can't be colder than 0C, which is why the snow below allows all of this to happen.

To give one more example, if there were 0.5 meters of snow on road, it would actually be worse to put ice salt down because the top layer would become colder. That is why roads need to be plowed before salt is distributed.


Thank you for the info! +k if you care about it haha
Dec 15 2015 6:48PM
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WeathermanPetro
Posts: 239 - Karma: 228
Do you still have the set up? No snow here and I'm dying to hit some rails!
Dec 16 2015 9:58AM
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trevorschu
Posts: 708 - Karma: 2,357
WeathermanPetroDo you still have the set up? No snow here and I'm dying to hit some rails!


RT ^^^
Dec 16 2015 12:59PM
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qyleberry
Posts: 788 - Karma: 2,211
WeathermanPetroDo you still have the set up? No snow here and I'm dying to hit some rails!


trevorschuRT ^^^


Sadly no, that set up lasted 1 day... it was fun though and yea I am dying for some snow too!
Dec 16 2015 1:20PM
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John18_6
Posts: 7313 - Karma: 49,165
put a tarp over the snow, darkest side down.
Dec 16 2015 3:05PM
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qyleberry
Posts: 788 - Karma: 2,211
john18061806put a tarp over the snow, darkest side down.


Well when the snow comes around I'll try it hahah
Dec 16 2015 7:48PM
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Slush
Posts: 1916 - Karma: 12,960
Two words

ice rink. Infinite snow
Dec 16 2015 9:42PM
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qyleberry
Posts: 788 - Karma: 2,211
SlushTwo words

ice rink. Infinite snow


Yea nearest one is 20 min away, but I would have to make many trips because I don't have a truck. The ice rinks by me let their snow melt inside, they don't put it outside so they don't have a pile out back like most do
Dec 16 2015 11:37PM
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Earl_Globz
Posts: 1555 - Karma: 818
powderwhorIts rock salt. Park crews do use it

And theres your snow science lesson for the day :)


E-BrachtThanks, I couldn't remember it was called rock salt. Also, rock salt is just normal salt that hasn't been treated to remove impurities like table salt has. Just thought I'd mention 'cause I was curious if there is any difference.


Believe it or not, the 'rock salt' that is used in terrain parks today, is specific. Its called Granulated Urea, which is a mixture of chemical salts and horse piss. You can find in your girls 'moroccan, argon oil' shampoos.

The reason for Urea, is it spreads rather than sinks, Freezing a smaller layer, preserving more snow that lies underneath. You will find when you use regular rock salt, The chunks will 'burn' their way to the bottom.
Dec 17 2015 10:59AM
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qyleberry
Posts: 788 - Karma: 2,211
Earl_GlobzBelieve it or not, the 'rock salt' that is used in terrain parks today, is specific. Its called Granulated Urea, which is a mixture of chemical salts and horse piss. You can find in your girls 'moroccan, argon oil' shampoos.

The reason for Urea, is it spreads rather than sinks, Freezing a smaller layer, preserving more snow that lies underneath. You will find when you use regular rock salt, The chunks will 'burn' their way to the bottom.


This also helped a lot! Thanks!
Dec 17 2015 6:09PM
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Earl_Globz
Posts: 1555 - Karma: 818
yee!
Dec 19 2015 7:55AM
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Deepskier
Posts: 3267 - Karma: 4,832
NOT DIRT darker colors absorb more heat ever wear a black shirt in the sun if you have you know. The thrown stuff you see is salt it melts snow then the excess water from that freezes and hardens it. The best way is to preserve it is together in big piles keep it clean and little surface area and cover it with a SOLID tarp that won't get light through it
Dec 19 2015 9:05PM
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qyleberry
Posts: 788 - Karma: 2,211
DeepskierNOT DIRT darker colors absorb more heat ever wear a black shirt in the sun if you have you know. The thrown stuff you see is salt it melts snow then the excess water from that freezes and hardens it. The best way is to preserve it is together in big piles keep it clean and little surface area and cover it with a SOLID tarp that won't get light through it


I understand what you are saying, but snow piles soak dirt up and gain a layer all over and they don't melt... I guess I just feel dirt preserves snow

Now I'm not planning on throwing dirt on snow piles haha
Dec 19 2015 10:23PM
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Deepskier
Posts: 3267 - Karma: 4,832
qyleberryI understand what you are saying, but snow piles soak dirt up and gain a layer all over and they don't melt... I guess I just feel dirt preserves snow

Now I'm not planning on throwing dirt on snow piles haha


yeah I get it but have you ever seen a leaf sink into the snow because its darker/hotter
Dec 20 2015 12:44PM
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