Mandatory Military Service

I see how mandatory service works for smaller countries; however, there are over 31 million 18-24 year olds in the United States. Do we really need that many military personal?

JustGoWithItI see how mandatory service works for smaller countries; however, there are over 31 million 18-24 year olds in the United States. Do we really need that many military personal?

Correction: military personnel

JustGoWithItI see how mandatory service works for smaller countries; however, there are over 31 million 18-24 year olds in the United States. Do we really need that many military personal?

We are putting a ton of money into the military, why not put it towards our youth and the next generation simultaneously by investing not profiting off them? Never mind, that sounds way too socialist.

OP- You make good points.

There is no accountability in our system. Remember 10x more people will go to jail in our society right now than will serve in the armed forces. People are just removed from it and as you say have no attachment since it almost certainly won't be their kid getting shot.


I don't think more people joining the military is the answer. I think the answer is to de-emphasize the military and have some fucking respect for the military that won BOTH world wars as an extremely PEACEFUL ISOLATIONIST nation that MINDED ITS OWN FUCKING BUSINESS..... but still entered and ENDED both world wards. Respect the USA's ability to mind its own fucking business but to settle serious international conflict when needed and things will be OK.


But we are a society full of shitheads who want to be involved and control everything so it doesn't work like it used to. Again the USA went to great lengths to AVOID both WW1 and WW2 they tried to stay out of both as much as possible despite being the clear cut winners of both ending both conflicts within roughly a year of entering them.

Basically to me if you don't respect the United States's ability to go from a peacetime small non existant army to one capable of beating anyone within a matter of months and think we need to keep a huge army at all times you are a piece of shit American and a traitor.

Minding our own shit didn't hurt us in WW1 or WW2. Fuck military spending.

If it instilled some discipline and respect in our dumbshit millennial society then I would be totally on board.

I think 2 years without a cellphone would be more valuable

Be forced to fight wars you don't believe in? Terrible idea. Having family in the war doesn't stop anything. I'm sure that can be proved.

And this is coming from a Veteran. Yes, I did mature as a disciplined adult helping me later in life but still, terrible idea.

So basically what Israel does. Everyone serves 3 years I think. But thats not saying you are going to be in an infantry unit or shipped off somewhere. I have met people from Israel who did their service behind a desk doing communications or technology/intel. They all go through basic training though.

Just from a development standpoint they have said it helped them figure out a direction for their life. Whether it be going to college or straight to work, the 3 years have given them time to get some life experience and make a more mature decision at 21 rather than 18.

For America, I dont think it could ever happen. Too many people who go apeshit because they wouldnt look at it for any of the positives. People will all think their kids now have a mandatory sentence to war or to be shipped overseas.

I think its a great idea, but it will probably always just remain an idea.

It would probably harden up all the pussys in this country

it would also act as a great education

SamtheEagleThe mandatory voting thread inspired me to make a thread about another issue. Mandatory Military service is something I think should be required for 3 main reasons. 1. We would get into fewer wars if everyone in the nation had a son, daughter, or friend who was going to go overseas and risk their lives for the nation. 2. the split between military and non military would be eliminated and we could stop a lot of the animosity between the two and unite the nation. 3. I believe it would strengthen our nation as a whole and if we ever needed people to fight we would have plenty, not that we would ever need that and eliminate the need for a draft. I am thinking something like 2 years of service and it doesn't have to be simply as an infantryman (although everyone should get that basic training) but it would introduce people to all sorts of vocational training or other education. Lets keep this civil people. Discuss.

You really had to go there?

First this is a horrible idea.

Second how old are you? I'm just curious. I would be surprised it you were out of high school.

Most of what is going on over seas, has nothing to do with protecting Americans and are freedoms, so we can just throw that out the window to start.

2. Okay. What did you just light up a doober, throw on bob marley and find out how to save the world?

3. You do realize we have a massive, massive military. We have absurd amounts of troops in countries we haven't even been at war with in half a century or more. Look at the numbers. We don't nee more troops. More troops, with nothing to do just means we'll invade more countries in stupid wars, and get people killed unnecessarily.

I hope you're just crushing the trolling game right now. I would buy you a beer.

If not, i don't even know.

Did you ever post on NYskiblog? You sound just like somebody that used to post on there.

The referenced post has been removed.

I agree that this would be a concern but I think that if we allowed people to take different routes within the military, not just infantry, then it wouldn't really be an issue. For example, if you could go and learn to be a mechanic or work in intelligence or work in food prep or a number of other things where you aren't actually fighting then it would be a learning experience that doesn't necessarily stress people too much. This would be a very different situation than vietnam. I don't think we would have gone into vietnam if mandatory military service was a thing. the draft didn't start in vietnam until the war had been going on for a while. I don't think the war would've started if america knew there would be a draft.

-benedettoBe forced to fight wars you don't believe in? Terrible idea. Having family in the war doesn't stop anything. I'm sure that can be proved.

And this is coming from a Veteran. Yes, I did mature as a disciplined adult helping me later in life but still, terrible idea.

I respectfully disagree. I think the transition period into it would be terribly rough but like you aknowledge that it helped you in the long run I think it would help america in the long run.

AlsoKnownAsYou really had to go there?

First this is a horrible idea.

Second how old are you? I'm just curious. I would be surprised it you were out of high school.

Most of what is going on over seas, has nothing to do with protecting Americans and are freedoms, so we can just throw that out the window to start.

2. Okay. What did you just light up a doober, throw on bob marley and find out how to save the world?

3. You do realize we have a massive, massive military. We have absurd amounts of troops in countries we haven't even been at war with in half a century or more. Look at the numbers. We don't nee more troops. More troops, with nothing to do just means we'll invade more countries in stupid wars, and get people killed unnecessarily.

I hope you're just crushing the trolling game right now. I would buy you a beer.

If not, i don't even know.

Did you ever post on NYskiblog? You sound just like somebody that used to post on there.

We really do not have that many troops for how much we spend on the military. I agree we currently use our military for reasons other than protecting us and I think that would change with compulsory military service. That would change if everyone served and knew what it was like to go through training and service.

You are going to buy me a lowely high schooler a beer???? Thanks!

No I am not in high school, I am out of college. No I haven't posted on that blog. Finally, No I am not a Troll. I am pretty sure we all know which one of us is the troll.

SamtheEagleI respectfully disagree. I think the transition period into it would be terribly rough but like you aknowledge that it helped you in the long run I think it would help america in the long run.

Help America do what exactly?

SamtheEagleWe really do not have that many troops for how much we spend on the military. I agree we currently use our military for reasons other than protecting us and I think that would change with compulsory military service. That would change if everyone served and knew what it was like to go through training and service.

.

What makes you think it would change? More troops so why not use them? All the money is going to million dollar tanks, airplanes, bombs, you name it. Meanwhile, Veterans are fighting for medicine and too many are committing suicide.

It all sounds like a good idea till you dig deeper. Why don't you give the military a shot?

The referenced post has been removed.

Truth on so many topics.

-benedettoHelp America do what exactly?



What makes you think it would change? More troops so why not use them? All the money is going to million dollar tanks, airplanes, bombs, you name it. Meanwhile, Veterans are fighting for medicine and too many are committing suicide.

It all sounds like a good idea till you dig deeper. Why don't you give the military a shot?

I think of it as an investment in our youth. It would go towards education and training so youth would mature and have a better idea about the next step in life after they get out. I also think that it would unite the nation and eliminate some of those post military problems like veterans ending up on the street. One of the problems I see in todays society is that there is a divide between the military and the citizens. I think we would improve those programs if everyone was serving

For nations like South Korea and Israel it makes sense.. because their neighbors are fucking mental... for the USA? ehh..

I mean, I wouldn't be against it if it wasn't all indoctriny and propaganda loaded... but I feel like it would be, especially if it was mandatory 2 years or whatever. I've seen too many people come out of the military all gung ho and fucked up.

Here's how I would consider it to be a positive...

Everyone who goes through it receives some sort of college benefit - such as say, a year or two of free tuition at a junior college - thus giving them some time to figure out what they want to do without hurling money all over the place. It would place some incentive on the whole thing, it would mean that we have a semi-trained populace in case some whackshits try to pull shit (IE: That whole thing that happened on the train in France? I feel like nobody would try to pull that shit if they knew most of us were trained at disarming a situation)

It would be only like 6 months to a year of mandatory service... rather than say 2 whole years.

You receive full healthcare benefits during that time, while still being able to stay on your parents insurance till you're 26 or whatever as long as you are in school or working towards some kind of certificate.

You receive proactive careerpath counseling to help you figure out what the fuck you want to do with your life.

You don't have to be sent to some Base in Mississippi - you can stay within a reasonable distance of home (they'd need to fire up some of the bases they closed after the Cold War though..)

overall, it would be fine if they implemented it, but the cost of the whole system would be pretty high - like pre Berlin Wall falling down high... I doubt it would be easy to sell to a skeptical post-vietnam anti-draft populace. If they wanted to implement conscription in America, they should have done it pre-Civil War, or right after it in order to thrust unity up the ass of the newer generations... at this point there's no fucking way it's going to be implemented unless the benefits for the average American far outweigh the cost and danger...

SamtheEagleI think of it as an investment in our youth. It would go towards education and training so youth would mature and have a better idea about the next step in life after they get out. I also think that it would unite the nation and eliminate some of those post military problems like veterans ending up on the street. One of the problems I see in todays society is that there is a divide between the military and the citizens. I think we would improve those programs if everyone was serving

It sounds like you want everyone to be work robots and look straight ahead and they better not speak out of line! Know what I mean? Not everyone is cut out for the military.

Invest in our youth through education. The 12 years sit behind the desk model needs a major overhaul.

Being that we live in the USA we're kind of out in the middle of no where as far as the world lay out goes.

That being said it would cost so much money to have everyone serve in this country the military already wastes enough money as is.

By the way, here's the worldwide map. conscription in red. purely voluntary in blue. conscription soon to be abolished in yellow/orange.

Just a few nations of interesting note here...

Chile
Brazil
Norway
Austria
Switzerland
Finland

I know most of these countries are small (sans Brazil) but all have pretty solid economies, and don't have any direct enemies next door. In the case of the European nations on this list, especially, they receive tons of benefits for their time spent in the military, and in most cases it really helps them make a mature decision for where they want to go in their life. The education systems of these countries are all pretty freaking awesome too, (that said, Brazil has a long way to go to serve all 200 million of it's people right, but it's growing in the right direction)

The USA could theoretically implement it and have it work, but it would also have to stay out of international affairs at the same clip as these other nations, and instead of spending money on foreign wars, spend the money on having a prepared populace - not only for any potential attacks, but also for a career and life.

Another thing I just thought of... If there was a conscription inacted, all women would also have to take part. I'm not sure middle America is quite ready to send their daughters off to compulsory military school for 6 months to a year. Parents are way too fucking helicoptery these days as it is...

Or we could just copy Switzerland.

How about mandatory community service instead.

Dustin.How about mandatory community service instead.

Are you thinking of something like the peace corp? It was originally created as an alternative to military service and I like the idea but I think it would cause a huge divide between those who serve in the military and those who serve in the peace corp. Just some quick thoughts

Terrible idea.

As someone who has been in the military for 4 years now I know firsthand the difference in performance between someone who is taking pride in their service and someone who is simply doing their time to get out. We are largely a premier militaristic force because we depend upon people volunteering to serve their country, these people are motivated by a number of reasons but are volunteers nonetheless. Forcing people into service eliminates the pride and prestige behind wearing the uniform, would greatly increase sabotage, result in security breaches and much more. There's a small group of people who I would trust by my side in combat, and I do not want to put my life into someone's hands who is serving their contract unwillingly and lackadaisically. I honestly couldn't imagine a worse thing for this country (besides Hilary Clinton)

Mandatory PTSD

Primary school or "daycare" is bad enough already. I wouldn't want to have anything else forced upon me as a kid. Maybe a few weeks of building a railroad or bridge...

the way our country is becoming super politically correct and anti war there is no way in hell it would ever happen. Plus it would cost so much money to put theses kids into military.

Why not provide free college instead. follow some of dem european countries that use the exam to determine if you can go to college

SamtheEagleWe are putting a ton of money into the military,

And there lies our problem

Yeah, no. Part of what makes our military effective is the fact that everybody, at least at first, wants to be there and is willing to do their job. Not a bunch of sorry ass conscripts.

SamtheEagleWe really do not have that many troops for how much we spend on the military. I agree we currently use our military for reasons other than protecting us and I think that would change with compulsory military service. That would change if everyone served and knew what it was like to go through training and service.

You are going to buy me a lowely high schooler a beer???? Thanks!

No I am not in high school, I am out of college. No I haven't posted on that blog. Finally, No I am not a Troll. I am pretty sure we all know which one of us is the troll.

So if we had a ton more troops than the ridiculous amount of troops we already have, it would keep us from using our troops in way's that we shouldn't be?

That doesn't make much sense.

Are you one of those people that thinks you're at risk of some scary brown dude blowing you up every time you walk to the mailbox?

We're at war with all these countries, and we act like we're one step away from losing all our freedoms to muslims or whoever. Yet there really isn't a war going on here. We aren't under attack. Look at where all the civilians are dying, it isn't america. Hell even look through history, it's all out in these other countries.

But sure. These guys are really so close to taking away our freedoms. We need at least 70 trillion more troops and 100 billion in space cash for the military or our freedom is toast!

This concept is so ridiculous, it's hard to fathom how you can see it as a good idea. Then again, you could probably run with it and get elected president these days. Maybe that's what you should do.

SamtheEagleAre you thinking of something like the peace corp? It was originally created as an alternative to military service and I like the idea but I think it would cause a huge divide between those who serve in the military and those who serve in the peace corp. Just some quick thoughts

No I'm talking about service. In your own community.

SamtheEagleWe really do not have that many troops for how much we spend on the military. I agree we currently use our military for reasons other than protecting us and I think that would change with compulsory military service. That would change if everyone served and knew what it was like to go through training and service.

wouldn't forcing everyone to join the military increase our spending? this is an area most people agree we spend too much money already.

I'm from canada and live in switzerland, and honestly I wish this was something we had at home.

In Switzerland only the males serve, and they have a choice between doing military or civil service. You can also do your year condensed, or in weekly stints over 10 years or something.

It teaches youth the value of respect, orderly conduct, forces integration between people from different background and with different beliefs, and generally allows people to pay their debts to the liberties of their country.

Now this obviously works well in switzerland as they're neutral and therefore unlikely to ever go to war unless they're invaded. Probably slightly more scary if you're serving mandatory military duty in a country that might actually ship you out. However, if you give people the option of civil duty, I think it's a great thing and would teach our generation a lot.

PeppermillRenoOP- You make good points.

There is no accountability in our system. Remember 10x more people will go to jail in our society right now than will serve in the armed forces. People are just removed from it and as you say have no attachment since it almost certainly won't be their kid getting shot.


I don't think more people joining the military is the answer. I think the answer is to de-emphasize the military and have some fucking respect for the military that won BOTH world wars as an extremely PEACEFUL ISOLATIONIST nation that MINDED ITS OWN FUCKING BUSINESS..... but still entered and ENDED both world wards. Respect the USA's ability to mind its own fucking business but to settle serious international conflict when needed and things will be OK.


But we are a society full of shitheads who want to be involved and control everything so it doesn't work like it used to. Again the USA went to great lengths to AVOID both WW1 and WW2 they tried to stay out of both as much as possible despite being the clear cut winners of both ending both conflicts within roughly a year of entering them.

This is a complete derailment of this thread haha, but I hate it when people say the US won and ended both World Wars. That is just completely dishonest. Your point has more merit in WW1 though, as one of the reasons for the Ludendorff Offensive was because the US entered the war, the Germans were already on the ropes at that point and knew they were going to lose if they didn't do something drastic, so they went all in. They made massive advances, the biggest since 1914, but it wasn't enough and the failure of the offense ended trench warfare and turned it into a mobile one again. At that point, the Germans days were numbered. You could argue that the US involvement sped up the end of the war, but you have to remember that Germany was fully blockaded, people and the military were starving and they were thinking of negotiating with the West.

As far as WW2, the US had even less of an impact in the European Theater. Theres no doubt we finished off Japan and bore the brunt of that front, but the British and Dutch were also fighting there. The Pacific theater was also a lot smaller in scale as far as land battles, but navel battles were much more important. In Europe, Hitler lost the war as soon as he launched Operation Barbarossa, the invasion of the Soviet Union. The Eastern Front is where the fate of the entire war was decided. Yes, they made massive advances, but the Soviet Union is not a small country, land mass and population speaking haha. Hitler invaded at literally the only time he could. It was not possible to do it sooner as troops were tied up in the Balkans and if he waited, the Soviets would have built up more troops and equipment. They new the days of their treaty with Germany were numbered. They just weren't expecting an invasion so soon. After Barbarossa was underway yes it was largely successful at first, but it was doomed to fail. Even if they had captured Moscow, it wouldn't have mattered as they could just relocate it farther east. The Germans would've probably been kicked out of Moscow during the next offensive. At that point their fate was sealed. The Germans didn't attack Moscow again during the Spring of 1942 because the Soviets had massed troops there and that offensive would've failed. So they attacked South. The Soviets reacted, drew them into Stalingrad then destroyed an entire Army in and around the city. At that point the Germans were on the ropes, again. They're last effort was at Kursk, that failed in the summer of 1943 and at that point the Germans were in a fighting retreat/route for the remainder of the war.
Yes, again, the US helped though lend lease and drawing troops away from the Eastern Front, but the war was lost for Germany in 1941. The US did help speed it up, but Soviets would've been in Berlin eventually.

I am currently doing a project on this and have a couple views on this. One is that overall i think it would not be a bad idea to have two years of mandatory federal/military/civil service which would range from working in the military, federal prisons, government buildings, hospitals, some schools and much more. What could result in this is teaching young adults skill sets and work ethic. Anther outcome of this it would unify our country, making the people much more politicly involved. We will be more watchful of the government's decisions especially in terms of national security. Lastly it would promote equality between us rich, poor, black, white, tall, short no matter what u look like or who u are you have to participate and like i said it would unify us a whole. As many good reasons for this it could be said that there is a equal amount of bad reasons.

DBack1321This is a complete derailment of this thread haha, but I hate it when people say the US won and ended both World Wars. That is just completely dishonest. Your point has more merit in WW1 though, as one of the reasons for the Ludendorff Offensive was because the US entered the war, the Germans were already on the ropes at that point and knew they were going to lose if they didn't do something drastic, so they went all in. They made massive advances, the biggest since 1914, but it wasn't enough and the failure of the offense ended trench warfare and turned it into a mobile one again. At that point, the Germans days were numbered. You could argue that the US involvement sped up the end of the war, but you have to remember that Germany was fully blockaded, people and the military were starving and they were thinking of negotiating with the West.

As far as WW2, the US had even less of an impact in the European Theater. Theres no doubt we finished off Japan and bore the brunt of that front, but the British and Dutch were also fighting there. The Pacific theater was also a lot smaller in scale as far as land battles, but navel battles were much more important. In Europe, Hitler lost the war as soon as he launched Operation Barbarossa, the invasion of the Soviet Union. The Eastern Front is where the fate of the entire war was decided. Yes, they made massive advances, but the Soviet Union is not a small country, land mass and population speaking haha. Hitler invaded at literally the only time he could. It was not possible to do it sooner as troops were tied up in the Balkans and if he waited, the Soviets would have built up more troops and equipment. They new the days of their treaty with Germany were numbered. They just weren't expecting an invasion so soon. After Barbarossa was underway yes it was largely successful at first, but it was doomed to fail. Even if they had captured Moscow, it wouldn't have mattered as they could just relocate it farther east. The Germans would've probably been kicked out of Moscow during the next offensive. At that point their fate was sealed. The Germans didn't attack Moscow again during the Spring of 1942 because the Soviets had massed troops there and that offensive would've failed. So they attacked South. The Soviets reacted, drew them into Stalingrad then destroyed an entire Army in and around the city. At that point the Germans were on the ropes, again. They're last effort was at Kursk, that failed in the summer of 1943 and at that point the Germans were in a fighting retreat/route for the remainder of the war.
Yes, again, the US helped though lend lease and drawing troops away from the Eastern Front, but the war was lost for Germany in 1941. The US did help speed it up, but Soviets would've been in Berlin eventually.

The Russians beat the Germans but the Germans beat themselves by invading them and being such assholes most Russians would have welcomed them with open arms as liberators they could have easily defeated the USSR if they had calmed down on the atrocities. For some perspective my Ukranian grandparents (Western Ukraine ie Catholic POlish border not Russian Ukranians) were more than happy to move to GErmany and work in the factories/be a nanny after Germany invaded. They liked Germany and after the war ended and they moved to the US my Grandfather got a job at GM easily because he had been working in the factories during the war.

Britain fought the bulk of the war in Europe on its own for the USA,

The USA defeated Japan almost single handedly and is responsible for liberating western europe and reaching Berlin at the same time as the Soviets.

If Eisenhower had had the balls to piss the British off royally at the end of the war and allow Patton to lead the final offensives and the capture of Berlin instead of Montgomery they could have easily beaten the Soviets there and been the clear cut winners. But the British public were butt hurt babies about the USA coming to their rescue and stealing all the glory. Cold war wouldn't have lasted as long if Berlin was a free democratic city and there was no wall/East Berlin.

SamtheEagleThe mandatory voting thread inspired me to make a thread about another issue. Mandatory Military service is something I think should be required for 3 main reasons. 1. We would get into fewer wars if everyone in the nation had a son, daughter, or friend who was going to go overseas and risk their lives for the nation. 2. the split between military and non military would be eliminated and we could stop a lot of the animosity between the two and unite the nation. 3. I believe it would strengthen our nation as a whole and if we ever needed people to fight we would have plenty, not that we would ever need that and eliminate the need for a draft. I am thinking something like 2 years of service and it doesn't have to be simply as an infantryman (although everyone should get that basic training) but it would introduce people to all sorts of vocational training or other education. Lets keep this civil people. Discuss.

Uhhhh, the general public does not decide when the country goes to war. The people deciding that could easily have their sons and daughters removed from the requirement, or placed in non-combat positions. I've though about this requirement a lot, but I don't think it would work in America.

Conscription sucks! I was forced to do a full year of service in the Norwegian Army and it sucked balls. I had to postpone my studies for a year, basically costing me a lot given the lousy compensation.

Also, when the state has unlimited supply of soldiers for the price of a slave they start inventing bullshit jobs just to keep everyone busy. For instance, every camp has a "welfare"unit where soldiers are forced to sit for twelve hours a day lending out movies and playstation games for a whole year. Thank god I didn't end up there!

if the states had mandatory military service then canada would be flooded with retarded draft dodging pussies like what happened during the vietnam war.

I think that it would probably do a lot of good for the current state of the youth in this country. Instilling some discipline would help alot of people in life, instead of the general liberal bullshit that they teach college kids. This in turn would probably stimulate our economy and quality of life as people would value what they already have, instead of thinking that they are entitled to everything.
There are many benefits of instating mandatory military service. But there are some problems as well.
Religious people would often have a problem with joining, although that could be fixed by creating rest days (for Church or Sabbath or some such), and specified meals (for hallal and kosher, etc.). People with disabilities would have to be exempt, or something, but there are always non-combat jobs in the military such as construction, mechanical, and medical jobs just to name a few.
It would be doable and I would probably support it, but I can't see it happening unless something drastic occurred.