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What self respecting, sane gay person would allow their children to become mormon lol, actually what self respecting, sane person would allow their children to be mormon, you don't even need to be gay to want to stay the hell away from the mormon church
AKhoodratWhat self respecting, sane gay person would allow their children to become mormon lol, actually what self respecting, sane person would allow their children to be mormon, you don't even need to be gay to want to stay the hell away from the mormon church
I mean, how knows, but why would they make it so obviously? Like clearly, someone who is gay probably won't want to be mormon, so why even say anything? they fucked up
As a Mormon, I have to say that I don't get this. I don't know why, with the church saying homosexuality is a sin like pre-marital sex, this is different than having a parent who has sex outside of marriage or has had an abortion or something. I don't know why the church thinks that parents choices necessarily have any influence on a child's life at all. I don't know why this was an issue at all. I dunno man.
I just can't seem to understand people and their botherness of the gay community. we don't judge the Mormons or really strong Christians on their practices, so why should it be the same?
Also, I'm a huge believer of separation of church and state. I'm an independent of politics and think Botha sides have major flaws. But the right side (republicans) in particular, how are you guys considered conservatives aka less government, but want to control marriage (separation of church and state people), regulate marijuana use and control what woman do to their bodies?
Goes back to that one thread, maybe the world would be better off without religion...
"I am seeing a lot of posts about the church's announcement to not allow the baptism of children of gay parents until they are 18 years old, no longer living with those parents, and disavow same-sex marriage. While I understand family and friends' posts who are not members of the church and are expressing their disagreement, I would say a word or two to friends and family who are still members of the church, but struggling with this policy adjustment:
I keep reading comments that say something along the lines of "How can the church punish children for the sins of their parents?", mostly with reference to the second article of faith. Let's be careful of how we define the word punishment. The Lord has always allowed the actions of others to affect His children. That's not punishment. The children who must wait to be baptized until they meet the criteria now listed in the handbook of instructions will not in any way be denied any eternal blessings or divine mercy by being required to wait to receive saving ordinances. The Lord is quite capable and more than willing to bless them according to their faith and obedience while they wait until the time is right to receive those ordinances, given their circumstances.
Secondly, people seem to think this is some drastic, radical change to church policy. The same policy has existed for some time now in regards to children of parents who practice plural marriage. Same sex marriage and polygamy are very serious sins which affect entire households in spiritual ways. Accordingly, after careful consideration, church leaders institute measures to ensure an individual's preparation, commitment, and ability to nourish obedience and righteous traditions after receiving sacred covenants. The latter can be much more difficult in a polygamous home or in the home of a same-sex couple.
Finally, do I understand all of the reasons behind this policy announcement? No, not at all. I would love to ask any of the brethren for greater light and knowledge on the matter, but I can't and I'm not going to lose sleep over it (although, there is nothing wrong with you if you do). I readily accept that there is a lot to this matter that I don't understand. I also readily accept that this is an opportunity for myself and other members of the church to exercise faith. Faith is taking that next step into the darkness before the Lord illuminates the way. To exercise faith, we cannot have all the answers. We should try to remember often how very little we understand in the grand scheme of things and rely on the assurances we've received by the Spirit of God that this is the true restored Gospel of Jesus Christ to carry us through times of uncertainty and difficulty. Justice, in conjunction with mercy, will be dealt perfectly at the last day, so lets try to maintain an eternal perspective."
If the prophet came out tomorrow and told all the Mormons to drink antifreeze, they most surely would all be dead the next day, but I guess that's what faith is all about.
The irony in all of this is too rich. The Mormon church wants these kids to wait till they're 18, so that they can be a full grown person that makes their own decisions free of their predecessors' own convictions. Holy Loly
K-Dot.The irony in all of this is too rich. The Mormon church wants these kids to wait till they're 18, so that they can be a full grown person that makes their own decisions free of their predecessors' own convictions. Holy Loly
No they are welcoming the children to the church but they can't actually be members unitl they disown their parents at the age of 18. Where are the family values now? The Mormon church wants to marginalize the offspring of homosexual marriages. If you knew how socially integrated mormonism is in Utah, you'd understand how this is a form of oppression that will mentally damage young children
I was raised Mormon and while I don't believe most of it, this still riles me up. Say if you were 16 years old, had gay parents, and a car to transport yourself to church and what not. So you can't be Mormon? That's ridiculous. I have nothing against Mormons, especially since many family and friends are Mormon, but this doesn't make sense at all in my eyes.
skiforsamyou didn't have to specify this. your username is byubound.
Lol. You'd be surprised how many people don't get it.
With this issue though, keep in mine that the church manual where the new rule is published is not a hard and fast law. Exceptions can be made, in the rare case where the child of gay parents wants to join the church and the parents are totally ok with it. Apparently, there was some situation where some homophobic and Mormon grandmother was trying to use the church as leverage to take custody over her grandson who was raised by her gay son and partner, saying that because he was LDS he needed to be taken away from his gay parents or they might influence him or whatever. The church wanted no part in tearing apart families like this, so hence the new rule.
MALEPRIVILEGENo they are welcoming the children to the church but they can't actually be members unitl they disown their parents at the age of 18. Where are the family values now? The Mormon church wants to marginalize the offspring of homosexual marriages. If you knew how socially integrated mormonism is in Utah, you'd understand how this is a form of oppression that will mentally damage young children
I think you missed my point bub, I was making a jab at the irony of telling kids to wait till they're 18 to make their own choice to join while they indoctrinate children since the day they're born. So we agree. Btw I grew up in a town that was 60% + Mormon and now inhabit SLC..
Ha I think this whole thing is funny though. I can't wait for the holy land to be overrun by heathens. Where will your Joseph Smith be when Salt Lake elects a gay mayor? Oh wait..
K-Dot.I think you missed my point bub, I was making a jab at the irony of telling kids to wait till they're 18 to make their own choice to join while they indoctrinate children since the day they're born. So we agree. Btw I grew up in a town that was 60% + Mormon and now inhabit SLC..
Ha I think this whole thing is funny though. I can't wait for the holy land to be overrun by heathens. Where will your Joseph Smith be when Salt Lake elects a gay mayor? Oh wait..
Yeah they will act super tolerant to your face. Mormons value peace over expressing their own beliefs and will always avoid confrontation. they still very much hate same sex marriage and would prefer there be no gay people and suggest that homosexuality is entirely a product of free will.
what is ironic is that Mormons rant and rave about the social discrimination they went through as a people while establishing the church yet hypocritaclly place those same types of social pressures on those with beliefs that differ from their own. Mormons are incredibly ethnocentric, hypocritical and judgemental. Don't let their friendly demeanor fool you.
What people dont understand (and a lot of mormons themselves) is that this wasn't some sort of vote... Based on the doctrines of the church, this installation was direct revelation and a command from god. People act and think like this is the Prophet or Quorm of the 12 instigating their own personal philosophy. Its not.
Well, when God commands something, its best not to disagree.... He might just go and make you a fag or somethin!
So I am mormon and I think that myself and most other members of the LDS church are very accepting to the LGBT community. In regard to this new thing with membership to people with gay parents being denied, I honestly don't get it. I think it is kinda sad and i don't agree with it but i can see where they are coming from on it. Here me out. So in our religion, we believe that marriage is between a man and a woman and thats what people are taught. Now imagine some young kid, whose parents are gay, who is interested in the mormon church. He'll go to church and hear all this stuff about how marriage is not supposed to be between two people of the same gender, so basically he'll learn that his parents marriage is wrong which would probably just confuse him a ton because he grew up with gay parents and has never known anything different.
So thats why they did this new thing. The mormon church wasn't trying to be a dick to kids that have gay parents, i think they were trying to say that it is kinda unfair for a kid with gay parents to learn in church that his parents are violating a main principle of the mormon which would be hard and confusing and plenty other things for a young kid.
so yeah, blah blah blah mormons and stuff am i right?
So I am mormon and I think that myself and most other members of the LDS church are very accepting to the LGBT community. In regard to this new thing with membership to people with gay parents being denied, I honestly don't get it. I think it is kinda sad and i don't agree with it but i can see where they are coming from on it. Here me out. So in our religion, we believe that marriage is between a man and a woman and thats what people are taught. Now imagine some young kid, whose parents are gay, who is interested in the mormon church. He'll go to church and hear all this stuff about how marriage is not supposed to be between two people of the same gender, so basically he'll learn that his parents marriage is wrong which would probably just confuse him a ton because he grew up with gay parents and has never known anything different.
So thats why they did this new thing. The mormon church wasn't trying to be a dick to kids that have gay parents, i think they were trying to say that it is kinda unfair for a kid with gay parents to learn in church that his parents are violating a main principle of the mormon which would be hard and confusing and plenty other things for a young kid.
so yeah, blah blah blah mormons and stuff am i right?
Lol so why don't you guys just ask God to change the rules? That's what the LDS church did when they got called out for being racist in the 70s. One day God just decided to allow black people into the priesthood. Kinda cool how God seems to be very in touch with American Civil rights movements.
stinky_peteSo thats why they did this new thing. The mormon church wasn't trying to be a dick to kids that have gay parents, i think they were trying to say that it is kinda unfair for a kid with gay parents to learn in church that his parents are violating a main principle of the mormon which would be hard and confusing and plenty other things for a young kid.
From the article: "Natural or adopted children living in a same-sex household will only be allowed to be baptized once they are 18, disavow the practice of same-sex cohabitation or marriage, and stop living within the household, according to the policy."
Don't you think that's a little steep for the sake of preventing a kid from possibly being confused by his parents marriage? Basically, the Mormon Church is saying "we refuse to accept you until you officially reject your parents love for one another, how they express that love, and then move out of their house. Once you abandon your parents, then we will accept you."
I don' understand why or how this even comes up? What ever happened to those things you just never talked about. Religion, Money, Politics, Sexuality. These are things that I consider personal and won't talk specifics about because honestly, no one gives AF.
So I am mormon and I think that myself and most other members of the LDS church are very accepting to the LGBT community. In regard to this new thing with membership to people with gay parents being denied, I honestly don't get it. I think it is kinda sad and i don't agree with it but i can see where they are coming from on it. Here me out. So in our religion, we believe that marriage is between a man and a woman and thats what people are taught. Now imagine some young kid, whose parents are gay, who is interested in the mormon church. He'll go to church and hear all this stuff about how marriage is not supposed to be between two people of the same gender, so basically he'll learn that his parents marriage is wrong which would probably just confuse him a ton because he grew up with gay parents and has never known anything different.
So thats why they did this new thing. The mormon church wasn't trying to be a dick to kids that have gay parents, i think they were trying to say that it is kinda unfair for a kid with gay parents to learn in church that his parents are violating a main principle of the mormon which would be hard and confusing and plenty other things for a young kid.
so yeah, blah blah blah mormons and stuff am i right?
This is how powerful their brainwashing is. They convince the victim it's the fault or their choice and if they don't choose mormonism they made the wrong choice.
If you are not a mormon then live with the consequences. (According to Mormons)
ianrich511I don' understand why or how this even comes up? What ever happened to those things you just never talked about. Religion, Money, Politics, Sexuality. These are things that I consider personal and won't talk specifics about because honestly, no one gives AF.
That's just a shitty excuse to get people to not challenge the atrocities religions commit. Its not personal when it directly effects others
CARTMANBRUHThat's just a shitty excuse to get people to not challenge the atrocities religions commit. Its not personal when it directly effects others
Well I think its fine to not be concerned with others personal life. I guess we aren't catching each others drift. Why can't the church not care, is what I was getting at, not the other way around. Like I said earlier, money, a church is never going to ask what kind of money you make in regards to being a member. Seems like they are taking an extra step adding to their practice what they think is right and wrong.
ianrich511Well I think its fine to not be concerned with others personal life. I guess we aren't catching each others drift. Why can't the church not care, is what I was getting at, not the other way around. Like I said earlier, money, a church is never going to ask what kind of money you make in regards to being a member. Seems like they are taking an extra step adding to their practice what they think is right and wrong.
onenerdykidFrom the article: "Natural or adopted children living in a same-sex household will only be allowed to be baptized once they are 18, disavow the practice of same-sex cohabitation or marriage, and stop living within the household, according to the policy."
Don't you think that's a little steep for the sake of preventing a kid from possibly being confused by his parents marriage? Basically, the Mormon Church is saying "we refuse to accept you until you officially reject your parents love for one another, how they express that love, and then move out of their house. Once you abandon your parents, then we will accept you."
Which one honestly sounds more unfair?
the mormon church isn't refusing to accept these kids, they are just withholding membership until the person is 18. They can still come to church and all of that, they just won't be allowed to be legit members until they are 18. And the mormon church isn't trying to make kids reject their parents love for each other. there is nothing in this new thing that says the kids should not love their parents or not accept their parents.
it doesn't matter though, people will always hate mormons so whatever
the LDS church is open to anyone. You can't hold the preisthood or be baptized until 18 if your parents are gay. They won't kick you out of the church. It's a confusing situation that has good arguments to both sides
stinky_petethe mormon church isn't refusing to accept these kids, they are just withholding membership until the person is 18. They can still come to church and all of that, they just won't be allowed to be legit members until they are 18. And the mormon church isn't trying to make kids reject their parents love for each other. there is nothing in this new thing that says the kids should not love their parents or not accept their parents.
it doesn't matter though, people will always hate mormons so whatever
No, it is exactly saying that. For the majority of Christians, baptism represents the acceptance/entrance into a community on Earth. The Mormon Church WILL NOT baptize them until them meet ALL of the following conditions: be 18, disavow cohabitation of homosexuals, disavow homosexual marriage, and leave their household. They are literally and plainly saying that if you don't meet all these conditions (not just some of them), then you will not be fully accepted in our community.
What I say here does not come from any hate towards Mormons as people. I have many friends & colleagues in Ogden, Utah who are Mormon and they are very nice, peaceful people. I do take issue with their ideas though, which is an entirely separate issue from them as people.
byuboundI don't know why the church thinks that parents choices necessarily have any influence on a child's life at all. I don't know why this was an issue at all. I dunno man.
Well parents choices are the basis of every child's formative experiences, and two parents raising a child in a stable household is exactly what has a positive influence on a child's life and teaches that kid proper values of love and respect. If the church is trying to procure virtuous members, they shouldn't turn away people who are conscientiously raising a child out of love for one another solely on the grounds that they both have dicks
onenerdykidNo, it is exactly saying that. For the majority of Christians, baptism represents the acceptance/entrance into a community on Earth. The Mormon Church WILL NOT baptize them until them meet ALL of the following conditions: be 18, disavow cohabitation of homosexuals, disavow homosexual marriage, and leave their household. They are literally and plainly saying that if you don't meet all these conditions (not just some of them), then you will not be fully accepted in our community.
What I say here does not come from any hate towards Mormons as people. I have many friends & colleagues in Ogden, Utah who are Mormon and they are very nice, peaceful people. I do take issue with their ideas though, which is an entirely separate issue from them as people.
Like I said in my post above, the church manual in which the new rule is published is not a hard and fast rule. In the case of a minor who is living with homosexual parents who wants to be baptized, has the full consent and support of his parents, an exception can be made. The new policy is just a guideline to avoid creating undue conflict in families. My mom went through the same process when she wanted to be baptized, just because her parents said that they did not want her to be Mormon.
byuboundLol. You'd be surprised how many people don't get it.
With this issue though, keep in mine that the church manual where the new rule is published is not a hard and fast law. Exceptions can be made, in the rare case where the child of gay parents wants to join the church and the parents are totally ok with it. Apparently, there was some situation where some homophobic and Mormon grandmother was trying to use the church as leverage to take custody over her grandson who was raised by her gay son and partner, saying that because he was LDS he needed to be taken away from his gay parents or they might influence him or whatever. The church wanted no part in tearing apart families like this, so hence the new rule.
byuboundLike I said in my post above, the church manual in which the new rule is published is not a hard and fast rule. In the case of a minor who is living with homosexual parents who wants to be baptized, has the full consent and support of his parents, an exception can be made. The new policy is just a guideline to avoid creating undue conflict in families.
You are clearly not well informed of what is said in the manual then (or you will say whatever it takes to get your religion off the hook). What you say blatantly contradicts what is written in the manual itself:
"A mission president or a stake president may request approval from the Office of the First Presidency to baptize and confirm, ordain, or recommend missionary service for a child of a parent who has lived or is living in a same-gender relationship when he is satisfied by personal interviews that both of the following requirements are met:
1. The child accepts and is committed to live the teachings and doctrine of the Church, and specifically disavows the practice of same-gender cohabitation and marriage.
2. The child is of legal age and does not live with a parent who has lived or currently lives in a same-gender cohabitation relationship or marriage."
This is more than a simple guideline for how one might want to behave. It is a prescription for judging if a child is worthy of receiving the blessing and it contradicts what you say. It is not simply a "guideline to avoid creating undue conflict in families". If this is to be followed by the child, it could very well and most certainly create (or at least encourage) conflict within a family.
Every religion is the only religion, and most of those religions have completely different sects within, and most of those are interpreted in very different ways depending on where you go etc.
Also, God made gay people so that he could fuck with them, ignore their prayers, and banish them from his kingdom for his own amusement.
onenerdykid"A mission president or a stake president may request approval from the Office of the First Presidency to baptize and confirm, ordain, or recommend missionary service for a child of a parent who has lived or is living in a same-gender relationship
That last bit about how the president CAN request approval for a child of a parent who 'is living in a same gender relationship' is what myself and others were basing this interpretation on. Admittedly, the statement contradicts itself in the regulations following. Also, I don't understand how you can think this policy will create additional conflict in a family. Homosexuality has been a sin in the church for forever. Having the children of homosexual couples renounce homosexuality does not mean that they are saying they don't love their parents or that their parents don't love each other. That being said, there is no way I am going to change your opinion on the issue, and there is no way you are going to change mine, so Im gonna go ski.
