Member of the Month

KilaTsunami
October, 2024

Online

Welcome to the Newschoolers forums! You may read the forums as a guest, however you must be a registered member to post. Register to become a member today!

Technology for Skiing Technique

profile picture
motionmetrics
Posts: 8 - Karma: 56
Hi people!

I'm looking for some feedback and/or signs of interest for some ski technology a couple of guys and I have developed. We've built a sensor unit that retrofits into ski boots and measures the pressure distribution and motion of the skis during a run. The sensor unit connects to a boot-mounted unit which wirelessly communicates with the skier's smartphone. Here's a picture of our current prototype:


Here's a short clip showing some of the raw data we collect:
http://youtube.com/v/LffROPRJbH0

This technology is designed to help skiers learn about their technique, and to give instructors and coaches precise information which can be used in their lessons. We've tested our prototypes with a few highly competitive skiers and instructors in the Alps, and have received a positive response so far!

We're now wondering if this technology is of any interest to the skiing community at large, so please do leave us some feedback, and feel free to ask any questions! Thank you!

More information about the technology:
The sensor unit has numerous pressure sensors, allowing us to determine the pressure distribution between the left and right feet, distinguish between heel and toe pressure etc (it's pretty awesome). Here's a quick demonstration using a heat map:
http://youtube.com/v/oU_23QUxl0Q

We're also developing a mobile application that analyses the measured data and provides feedback about the skier's technique. For instance, we can prompt the skier (in real-time!) to put their weight forward when we detect them leaning too far backwards. Over time, the app can generate a profile for the skier, which can be used to suggest training goals.

We are also looking into gamifying ski drills to make them both more quantifiable and enjoyable. We could provide simple goals such as "make 10 turns" and track their progress using through the sensors. The app could then score the drill based on a suitable metric, have leaderboards and friendly competitions to encourage doing drills!

We are very excited about this technology and its potential, and we hope you are too! Please let us know what you think, thank you!
Nov 2 2015 7:40AM
47 3
profile picture
arnie_grape
Posts: 3451 - Karma: 11,683
that's pretty cool.

it's not useful for the average skier but there's definitely lots of coaches/instructors/manufacturers who will want this.
Nov 2 2015 3:21PM
2 0
profile picture
RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
We are probably the exact opposite of your target market.
Nov 2 2015 8:49PM
20 0
profile picture
CHORIZO
Posts: 2003 - Karma: 10,039
More intersted in technology that can ski for me so i can just take naps
Nov 2 2015 9:23PM
1 0
profile picture
motionmetrics
Posts: 8 - Karma: 56
FROGGINBULLFISHthat's pretty cool.

it's not useful for the average skier but there's definitely lots of coaches/instructors/manufacturers who will want this.


Thank you for your comments! We do indeed get quite favourable responses from professional skiers, coaches and instructors. They were very interested in the details available in the raw data, but for most of the other skiers, we have developed algorithms to perform analyses on the data collected, summarise the data and give feedback on technique. We've also tested some simple real-time feedback (through earphones) algorithms, and we're working on more!

For novice and intermediate skiers, we are also developing a rigourous ski lesson plans which are supplemented with a set of drills, all monitored in real-time using our technology with real-time scoring, feedback and commentary/encouragement.

RudyGarmischWe are probably the exact opposite of your target market.


Thank you for your response, but I am curious to know why that's the case. Please do let us know!
Nov 3 2015 6:25AM
0 0
profile picture
gnar_whal
Posts: 1286 - Karma: 3,787
^^spend a bit of time on here and you'll know why. I would head over to tgr if I were you http://www.tetongravity.com

cool idea tho
Nov 3 2015 7:31AM
2 1
profile picture
KravtZ
Posts: 6637 - Karma: 2,629
Wow thats pretty cool. I think it could definitely be used on a high level in racing programs, mountain schools, potentially very high level park skiers, etc.

Don't think the average person would think twice about using this honestly. I also don't think the vast majority of NS is your target audience in this. I'd target US national ski team or other programs that use a lot of science in their approach to skiing
Nov 3 2015 8:31AM
1 0
profile picture
S.J.W
Posts: 7609 - Karma: 31,185
This thing is fucking sick. I'd buy one in a heart beat if it also worked with powder skiing or mogul skiing.
Nov 3 2015 9:24AM
1 0
profile picture
DBack1321
Posts: 410 - Karma: 485
I think it would be cool to use and I would use it, but that's totally dependent on price point. I don't think something like that would be cheap. Most rec skiers (go one family trips a couple times a year, groomer cruisers) are the majority of skiers at resorts and they probably wouldn't buy this unless they're rich.

Your target should be instructors, coaches, mountain schools, etc not the individual skier in my opinion.In that market, your idea will probably be really profitable.
Nov 3 2015 10:05AM
0 0
profile picture
itswillis21
Posts: 294 - Karma: 66
motionmetricsThank you for your response, but I am curious to know why that's the case. Please do let us know!


a lot of the people on here are exclusively into hitting rails and jumps and don't care if their skiing technique is good
Nov 3 2015 2:12PM
1 0
profile picture
motionmetrics
Posts: 8 - Karma: 56
itswillis21a lot of the people on here are exclusively into hitting rails and jumps and don't care if their skiing technique is good


Thank you, I see your point! Perhaps the pure technique like carving isn't of great interest. However, our technology is quite versatile, and we could potentially add a new section in our app to include tracking for jumps, grinding on rails and other freestyle skiing moves. Would that be of any interest?

KravtZWow thats pretty cool. I think it could definitely be used on a high level in racing programs, mountain schools, potentially very high level park skiers, etc.

Don't think the average person would think twice about using this honestly. I also don't think the vast majority of NS is your target audience in this. I'd target US national ski team or other programs that use a lot of science in their approach to skiing


Thank you! We too think there's a lot of potential for this technology, and the benefits for professional skiers are the most evident. We're putting a lot of effort into technique analysis, instruction and training feedback to cater to the wider skiing community, and we hope there'll be a warm reception for it!

S.J.WThis thing is fucking sick. I'd buy one in a heart beat if it also worked with powder skiing or mogul skiing.


Thank you very much! Your interest in our work means so much to us. What features would you like to see regarding power and mogul skiing specifically? We're always happy to receive feature suggestions!

DBack1321I think it would be cool to use and I would use it, but that's totally dependent on price point. I don't think something like that would be cheap. Most rec skiers (go one family trips a couple times a year, groomer cruisers) are the majority of skiers at resorts and they probably wouldn't buy this unless they're rich.

Your target should be instructors, coaches, mountain schools, etc not the individual skier in my opinion.In that market, your idea will probably be really profitable.


Thank you for your interest! We've certainly found the professional skiers, instructors and coaches to be extremely receptive of our technology, but we're really keen on making this technology readily available to as many skiers as we can. As such, we're very focused on making the device as affordable as possible!
Nov 3 2015 2:51PM
1 0
profile picture
S.J.W
Posts: 7609 - Karma: 31,185
I haven't a clue how they'd work in powder. Perhaps it sees how much you're leaning back??? How good your positioning is??? And as for mogul skiing? How close you are to hitting the perfect spot on the mogul, how close you keep your knees together and how good your take offs are on the jumps as well as landings and the transitions.
Nov 3 2015 6:30PM
0 0
profile picture
motionmetrics
Posts: 8 - Karma: 56
I see, thank you for your suggestions! We've actually tested our prototypes with professionals in ski cross, and we received similar feedback about jumps and landings. Looking at the pressure data, we can quite easily see several features of the jumps and landings like asymmetric force application, timing etc. We'll definitely look into writing the algorithms to detect and provide feedback for these!
Nov 4 2015 5:28AM
0 0
profile picture
itzki
Posts: 444 - Karma: 1,344
OP writes like a Bond villain
Nov 4 2015 8:00AM
2 0
profile picture
itzki
Posts: 444 - Karma: 1,344
inb4 ski boots become self aware
Nov 4 2015 8:00AM
1 0
profile picture
elcornholio
Posts: 797 - Karma: 1,556
This seems like it could be used to prevent injury, for instance, finding out how to avoid landing in a way that could cause knee damage. It could also show from the given movement on landing if you're in danger of injury.
Nov 4 2015 10:06PM
0 0
profile picture
motionmetrics
Posts: 8 - Karma: 56
elcornholioThis seems like it could be used to prevent injury, for instance, finding out how to avoid landing in a way that could cause knee damage. It could also show from the given movement on landing if you're in danger of injury.


That's a great suggestion! We could probably give real-time feedback when the skier lands a jump poorly, or does a very risky move. We'll definitely look into it, thank you!
Nov 5 2015 4:36AM
0 0
profile picture
CTD
Posts: 6300 - Karma: 348
yeah sell it as a safety prevention thing to the mass market. knee injuries scare the crap out of people and rightfully so. sounds like you've got some cool tech and your approach on here is good! GOOD LUCK!
Nov 5 2015 4:28PM
0 0
profile picture
Lbird
Posts: 401 - Karma: 2,190
But does it measure afterbang?
Nov 5 2015 4:58PM
3 0
profile picture
kylemclean
Posts: 413 - Karma: 1,311
I love the idea. I don't see how it would help with knee injuries on landings as you wouldn't be able to react. I could see it being used for jumps to see how well and consistently you land though possibly helping to fix the way you land to avoid injury in the future but not in real time. I would also want to know what something like this would cost as that is a big factor for the average skier.
Nov 5 2015 6:20PM
0 0
profile picture
californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
gnar_whal^^spend a bit of time on here and you'll know why. I would head over to tgr if I were you http://www.tetongravity.com

cool idea tho


I think TGR would absolutely roast this guy haha. Epicski would eat this up though.

Racing it'd be good, but free skiing involves waaay too many terrain and body positioning variables.
Nov 5 2015 7:01PM
0 0
profile picture
gnar_whal
Posts: 1286 - Karma: 3,787
californiagrownI think TGR would absolutely roast this guy haha. Epicski would eat this up though.

Racing it'd be good, but free skiing involves waaay too many terrain and body positioning variables.


tru or snow heads
Nov 5 2015 7:06PM
0 0
profile picture
salomonskiier12
Posts: 2862 - Karma: 19
is this a joke?
Nov 5 2015 11:57PM
0 0
profile picture
motionmetrics
Posts: 8 - Karma: 56
kylemcleanI love the idea. I don't see how it would help with knee injuries on landings as you wouldn't be able to react. I could see it being used for jumps to see how well and consistently you land though possibly helping to fix the way you land to avoid injury in the future but not in real time. I would also want to know what something like this would cost as that is a big factor for the average skier.


Yes it'll purely be for injury prevention, but immediate feedback might be helpful if for example the skier is going down a particularly brutal line for the first time. We actually tested our technology with Filip Flisar, and he too was very interested with the data of his jumps!

We're trying to make this as affordable as possible, and if we manage to attract sufficient interest, we'll be able to meet our target of a couple of hundred dollars or less.
Nov 6 2015 5:49AM
0 0
profile picture
motionmetrics
Posts: 8 - Karma: 56
Just to add to the previous post a little, here's a short clip of our test with Filip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV-jQ1hAhpI

We can quite clearly see the distribution and timing of the force of the jumps, landings and the turn right at the end!

We're working on better visualisation methods, apologies for the graphs!
Nov 6 2015 6:05AM
0 0
profile picture
motionmetrics
Posts: 8 - Karma: 56
Hey guys, we made a short clip of the feedback we've received from our early alpha testers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ0ZWFMy2_k

They talk about some issues people have raised, particularly regarding comfort with using the inserts. Take a look and let us know what you think!
Dec 7 2015 11:23AM
0 0
profile picture
eduardoNS
Posts: 1 - Karma: 10
It's been a while, but this Carv thing is up on Kickstarter, so it did work after all
Feb 15 2016 9:44AM
0 0
All times are Eastern (-5)