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Official 2016-2017 Gear Rumor Thread

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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7495 - Karma: 11,561
Lange just dropped something very interesting. K2 has a competitor for tech inserts Alpine boots.


https://instagram.com/p/84k1HLw94J/
Oct 16 2015 8:19AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6713 - Karma: 11,477
Not exactly like K2, but close. While Lange's boots do have tech inserts directly in the shell, the soles are WTR not Alpine ISO/DIN and (as pictured) will not work in true alpine bindings. As pictured, they will need to work with WTR, MNC, or touring bindings.


Also, isn't there already a 16/17 thread started?
Oct 16 2015 10:35AM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7495 - Karma: 11,561
onenerdykidNot exactly like K2, but close. While Lange's boots do have tech inserts directly in the shell, the soles are WTR not Alpine ISO/DIN and (as pictured) will not work in true alpine bindings. As pictured, they will need to work with WTR, MNC, or touring bindings.


Also, isn't there already a 16/17 thread started?


I didn't see it, not that I looked too hard for it.

I assume you have gotten your hands on them then. Are they basically their XT with tech soles then?

Interesting choice if they did.
Oct 16 2015 10:51AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6713 - Karma: 11,477
.MASSHOLE.I didn't see it, not that I looked too hard for it.

I assume you have gotten your hands on them then. Are they basically their XT with tech soles then?

Interesting choice if they did.


Haven't had my hands on them yet and only seen them from this picture. Lange just launched the updated XT last year, so I don't think there are any real mold changes beside the tech insert update.
Oct 16 2015 11:09AM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7495 - Karma: 11,561
onenerdykidHaven't had my hands on them yet and only seen them from this picture. Lange just launched the updated XT last year, so I don't think there are any real mold changes beside the tech insert update.


Odd given that there are better AT boots out there in terms of downhill and uphill performance.

Who knows, maybe it will kill it.
Oct 16 2015 11:12AM
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KyleA
Posts: 865 - Karma: 510
.MASSHOLE.Odd given that there are better AT boots out there in terms of downhill and uphill performance.


What tech boot would you say offers better downhill performance than an XT 130?
Oct 16 2015 1:03PM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7495 - Karma: 11,561
KyleAWhat tech boot would you say offers better downhill performance than an XT 130?


For PURE AT use (which is what this seems to be going for seeing as it is not a DIN certified sole) the Mountain Lab, Khion, and Vulcan off the top of my head.
Oct 16 2015 1:46PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,681
you can most likely take the WTR sole off and put a ISO 5355 sole on those, just like you can with this year's Lange XT WTR and Rossi Alltrack WTR boots.

The reality is, Amer and Rossignol group are looking to make WTR the most prominant boot sole spec on the market. Their goal appears to make it the standard for anyone who is not racing (solid plastic lug that has been canted) or using a backcountry specific boot.

They walk better, and have less people making an attempt at staring in Warren Miller's frozen granular segment. You can still cant them using cantology soles. It will take a couple years but my guess is you will soon see WTR soles (or something similar) as the new standard across skiing in everything from tech compatible side country boots to rentals, to your high end weekend warrior front side skier. Basically, anyone who does not need a solid stiff lug or a full rubber walk sole.
Oct 16 2015 2:55PM
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MartianMan
Posts: 1101 - Karma: 2,099
I always thought the K2 idea was genius. Is there truly a downside to putting tech inserts onto Alpine DIN soles? Seems like it loses almost no performance and opens up a ton of options. Why don't all companies stick inserts on boots that have big mtn/sidecountry features? (i.e. Dalbello Lupo, Salomon Quest Max)
Oct 16 2015 3:21PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,681
MartianManI always thought the K2 idea was genius. Is there truly a downside to putting tech inserts onto Alpine DIN soles? Seems like it loses almost no performance and opens up a ton of options. Why don't all companies stick inserts on boots that have big mtn/sidecountry features? (i.e. Dalbello Lupo, Salomon Quest Max)


It does not meat ISO 5355.

Rossi does not currently indemnify their bindings to work with K2 boots with the tech insert. Marker does, not sure if Amer does.

It also costs money and pushes the cost of the boot up. If you are using a tech binding why not just swap soles and use a rocker sole that walks better with improved traction? K2 released a rocker rubber sole for the Pinnacle this year.
Oct 16 2015 3:31PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7225 - Karma: 18,139
cobra_commanderIt does not meat ISO 5355.

Rossi does not currently indemnify their bindings to work with K2 boots with the tech insert. Marker does, not sure if Amer does.

It also costs money and pushes the cost of the boot up. If you are using a tech binding why not just swap soles and use a rocker sole that walks better with improved traction? K2 released a rocker rubber sole for the Pinnacle this year.


No one wants to swap soles all the time though. The k2 just works. I love the fact I can take those boots out and ride any possible binding without changing anything.
Oct 16 2015 3:50PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,191
Doesn't ON3P launch a "youth line" during 16-17? If so, the kids will be hyped. #4thakidz


Also I made a comment about the older Jeffrey's (108/110 versions) and he said (in a forum) that we might see something like that again. If so I'd buy it.
Oct 16 2015 4:05PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,681
tomPietrowskiNo one wants to swap soles all the time though. The k2 just works. I love the fact I can take those boots out and ride any possible binding without changing anything.


sure, and you save 5 minutes to get a boot that doesn't scramble or walk near as well. It takes a lot more time to wax and tune that second ski every five-ten days you ski it.
Oct 16 2015 4:35PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7225 - Karma: 18,139
cobra_commandersure, and you save 5 minutes to get a boot that doesn't scramble or walk near as well. It takes a lot more time to wax and tune that second ski every five-ten days you ski it.


I see it more like I know I can ski any possible ski in that boot without doing anything. Quite often I'll be just testing somthing for a day an it could have tech or alpine or really anything else. To save me taking multiply boots and extra soles te k2 just works. And other then the issue with cuff movement they ski really well.
Oct 16 2015 4:39PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6713 - Karma: 11,477
MartianManI always thought the K2 idea was genius. Is there truly a downside to putting tech inserts onto Alpine DIN soles? Seems like it loses almost no performance and opens up a ton of options


cobra_commanderIt does not meat ISO 5355.


Emphasis on the meat. According to Alpine ISO 5355, you cannot have any interference on the surface of the boot's interface to the binding. So, on paper, tech inserts violate this. From there, it just depends on how much of a legal risk a brand wants to take. Brands have always known this, which is why they have gone with the Touring ISO 9523 or WTR or swappable norm grip pads.
Oct 16 2015 5:25PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7225 - Karma: 18,139
onenerdykidEmphasis on the meat. According to Alpine ISO 5355, you cannot have any interference on the surface of the boot's interface to the binding. So, on paper, tech inserts violate this. From there, it just depends on how much of a legal risk a brand wants to take. Brands have always known this, which is why they have gone with the Touring ISO 9523 or WTR or swappable norm grip pads.


What is the actuall issue with having the inserts out of interest. I get they are changing the surface but is it a strength issue or more of one that it could potentially catch or somthing. And how is it differnt then say a wtr sole with inserts whic could still be used in a warden for example. Just interested and figure you're the man to ask.
Oct 16 2015 5:29PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6713 - Karma: 11,477
tomPietrowskiWhat is the actuall issue with having the inserts out of interest. I get they are changing the surface but is it a strength issue or more of one that it could potentially catch or somthing. And how is it differnt then say a wtr sole with inserts whic could still be used in a warden for example. Just interested and figure you're the man to ask.


It's just the rules of the Alpine norm and such restrictions are not present in the Touring norm or WTR norm. Providing a safe, consistent release is the main goal of the TÜV (the norm testing organization) and the norm is incredibly strict and detailed in regards to what you can and can't do.
Oct 16 2015 6:02PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7225 - Karma: 18,139
onenerdykidIt's just the rules of the Alpine norm and such restrictions are not present in the Touring norm or WTR norm. Providing a safe, consistent release is the main goal of the TÜV (the norm testing organization) and the norm is incredibly strict and detailed in regards to what you can and can't do.


do you maybe think that will change? when was the norm put in place by the TUV? could it be as things change they update it do you think
Oct 16 2015 6:09PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,681
Last update was 2005 I believe, before that 1997.

I doubt they will change it. Amer, Rossi, and whomever else they can get on board (Marker{Dalbello} comes to mind) will likely attempt to work with TUV to create a new standard (using WTR as a guide). TUV can then test new bindings and boots against that standard.

Or they could change it, but that would be complex with the push for a non horizontal boot sole surface.
Oct 16 2015 7:25PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7225 - Karma: 18,139
cobra_commanderLast update was 2005 I believe, before that 1997.

I doubt they will change it. Amer, Rossi, and whomever else they can get on board (Marker{Dalbello} comes to mind) will likely attempt to work with TUV to create a new standard (using WTR as a guide). TUV can then test new bindings and boots against that standard.

Or they could change it, but that would be complex with the push for a non horizontal boot sole surface.


Yeah will be interesting to see what happens in the coming years. I would like to know more about the TUV thoughts on tech inserts as although on paper its not allowed I really had no issues what so ever using many different bindings. Having said that I did have an issue with one tech binding so i wonder if that is more the downside rather then alpine bindings but then you would think that would not be covered by the same norm anyway
Oct 16 2015 7:35PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6713 - Karma: 11,477
tomPietrowskiYeah will be interesting to see what happens in the coming years. I would like to know more about the TUV thoughts on tech inserts as although on paper its not allowed I really had no issues what so ever using many different bindings.


The short answer is that there is currently no norm for tech insert shape or design- almost every boot company has their own unique shape. This means that there could be a tech insert in a boot that does not agree with the alpine binding in some way (for example, the tech insert could get hung up on the little rollers in the toe piece during a lateral release).
Oct 17 2015 9:33AM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7495 - Karma: 11,561
onenerdykidThe short answer is that there is currently no norm for tech insert shape or design- almost every boot company has their own unique shape. This means that there could be a tech insert in a boot that does not agree with the alpine binding in some way (for example, the tech insert could get hung up on the little rollers in the toe piece during a lateral release).


Do you think there ever will be a norm?
Oct 18 2015 10:21AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6713 - Karma: 11,477
.MASSHOLE.Do you think there ever will be a norm?


I hope so. It would definitely make things easier.
Oct 18 2015 11:56AM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7225 - Karma: 18,139
onenerdykidI hope so. It would definitely make things easier.


As brands can you guys ever have any kind of power in this respect. For example (and I realize it's not likely) but say you guys, salomon, Rossi, k2 etc all came together and created analpine sole with inserts you were all happy with, could you then have some pressure over TUV to consider changes or are you more pressured to not go outside what the TUV want.
Oct 18 2015 8:21PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7225 - Karma: 18,139
tomPietrowskianalpine


Possibly my new favourite autocorrect. Alpine that should say haha
Oct 18 2015 8:23PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6713 - Karma: 11,477
tomPietrowskiAs brands can you guys ever have any kind of power in this respect. For example (and I realize it's not likely) but say you guys, salomon, Rossi, k2 etc all came together and created analpine sole with inserts you were all happy with, could you then have some pressure over TUV to consider changes or are you more pressured to not go outside what the TUV want.


The TÜV is more or less an independent 3rd party that tests the norms that are given by ISO (the International Organization for Standardization). The problem with changing a norm is more about the pragmatic costs associated with all of the boot companies having to launch all new molds for all sizes for all models and the binding world to do the same.

It for sure can happen and WTR is a great example of the process: Salomon had an idea for a new grip pad shape and a binding that accepted that shape. It passed the tests done by the TÜV and boom a new norm was created. The question is will it be embraced by the entire industry and render the current Alpine ISO obselete? Who knows... but at least Salomon, Atomic, Lange, Rossi, and Scott are on board with it. There just needs to be more boot and binding options for that to fully happen.
Oct 19 2015 4:00AM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7495 - Karma: 11,561
onenerdykidI hope so. It would definitely make things easier.


Anything cool in the pipeline that you have been hearing rumors about and want hint to us?
Oct 20 2015 2:24PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6713 - Karma: 11,477
.MASSHOLE.Anything cool in the pipeline that you have been hearing rumors about and want hint to us?


There might be a new alpine boot from us that you might be interested in :)
Oct 22 2015 7:53AM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7495 - Karma: 11,561
onenerdykidThere might be a new alpine boot from us that you might be interested in :)




I am listening..
Oct 22 2015 8:18AM
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a_burger
Posts: 5244 - Karma: 20,856
so the other day someone posted a picture of some camo and yellow full tilts which a rep supposedly showed them that are the new Tom Wallisch pro model.

I was skeptical after that nike ski boots thread a while back but the thread appears to be deleted soooooo...
Oct 28 2015 2:42PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7225 - Karma: 18,139
w_skierso the other day someone posted a picture of some camo and yellow full tilts which a rep supposedly showed them that are the new Tom Wallisch pro model.

I was skeptical after that nike ski boots thread a while back but the thread appears to be deleted soooooo...


https://www.newschoolers.com/news/read/What-Full-Tilt#PLxuVBWP0yBVUQbY.97
Oct 28 2015 3:12PM
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Kbob94
Posts: 1296 - Karma: 8,332
tomPietrowskihttps://www.newschoolers.com/news/read/What-Full-Tilt#PLxuVBWP0yBVUQbY.97

awesome!!! Great read!
Oct 28 2015 3:19PM
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Line_Skis
Posts: 1992 - Karma: 37,808
We're making new skis! Shiny colors and all!
Oct 28 2015 8:38PM
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Kbob94
Posts: 1296 - Karma: 8,332
Line_SkisWe're making new skis! Shiny colors and all!


Heck yes!!!! Exactly what I wanna hear.
Oct 28 2015 11:02PM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7495 - Karma: 11,561
Line_SkisWe're making new skis! Shiny colors and all!


Dibs on the red ones.
Oct 29 2015 3:17PM
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Ghini
Posts: 2262 - Karma: 3,004
Rossi will stop selling rebranded Look bindings... So less FKS color choices for those who color match all their gear...... Hurray!
Oct 29 2015 5:12PM
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a_burger
Posts: 5244 - Karma: 20,856
GhiniRossi will stop selling rebranded Look bindings... So less FKS color choices for those who color match all their gear...... Hurray!


interesting... I wonder what this means for pivot/fks prices cause it seems like fks are always a bit cheaper online
Oct 29 2015 7:38PM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7495 - Karma: 11,561
GhiniRossi will stop selling rebranded Look bindings... So less FKS color choices for those who color match all their gear...... Hurray!


Interesting, where did you see this?
Oct 29 2015 7:54PM
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HenriksDreads
Posts: 332 - Karma: 327
Line_SkisWe're making new skis! Shiny colors and all!


But will they match my boots, bindings, and outerwear? That's what's important
Oct 30 2015 9:45AM
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Ghini
Posts: 2262 - Karma: 3,004
.MASSHOLE.Interesting, where did you see this?


Heard on ISPO..
Oct 30 2015 4:10PM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7495 - Karma: 11,561
GhiniHeard on ISPO..


Too bad. I wonder if Rossi will just put all their athletes on Look bindings then.
Oct 31 2015 6:11PM
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..=
Posts: 548 - Karma: 1,224
.MASSHOLE.Too bad. I wonder if Rossi will just put all their athletes on Look bindings then.


Good question, I wonder if Rossignol themselves will distribute Pivots now. Can't see the team on another binding...
Oct 31 2015 7:18PM
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gapersarefriends
Posts: 2158 - Karma: 4,270
in the BLACK & WHITE edit from stubai that was just posted, are the guys riding new atomic park skis?
Nov 4 2015 6:55PM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7495 - Karma: 11,561
gapersarefriendsin the BLACK & WHITE edit from stubai that was just posted, are the guys riding new atomic park skis?


Grab a screen shot and post it here. I bet OneNerdyKid can confirm or deny
Nov 5 2015 12:21PM
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Carl_the_Llama
Posts: 506 - Karma: 1,313
gapersarefriendsin the BLACK & WHITE edit from stubai that was just posted, are the guys riding new atomic park skis?


.MASSHOLE.Grab a screen shot and post it here. I bet OneNerdyKid can confirm or deny


Pretty sure it's just a custom ski graphic maker promo-thing that Atomic is doing. Europe only atm if if I'm not mistaken.
Nov 5 2015 12:40PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7225 - Karma: 18,139
Arcteryx are making a tourin boot aparently. Any amer boot designers able to fill us in with some details?
Nov 5 2015 4:52PM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,411
gapersarefriendsin the BLACK & WHITE edit from stubai that was just posted, are the guys riding new atomic park skis?


Carl_the_LlamaPretty sure it's just a custom ski graphic maker promo-thing that Atomic is doing. Europe only atm if if I'm not mistaken.


They're Atomic 'Custom Studio' skis. Europe exclusive.

https://customstudio.atomic.com/#en-GB/ski_models
Nov 5 2015 5:31PM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7495 - Karma: 11,561
tomPietrowskiArcteryx are making a tourin boot aparently. Any amer boot designers able to fill us in with some details?


WHAT?

Their own or just a rebrand from another Amer sports company?
Nov 5 2015 8:22PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7225 - Karma: 18,139
.MASSHOLE.WHAT?

Their own or just a rebrand from another Amer sports company?


From the small amount of info I got it's a new development maybe based on their mountaineering boot. That is all I know, onenerdy got any insights
Nov 5 2015 9:08PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,681
not an arcteryx boot designer, but can fill you in. It will walk a little 'differently' than other tech boots on the market.
Nov 6 2015 3:27AM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7495 - Karma: 11,561
cobra_commandernot an arcteryx boot designer, but can fill you in. It will walk a little 'differently' than other tech boots on the market.


Are they going for the mountaineering crowd then? Or ski-mo?

I can't see them going for freeride/traditional BC skier...But I could be wrong
Nov 6 2015 1:03PM
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