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Not Another Mass Shooting...

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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24725 - Karma: 29,944
After this whole thing with the mass shooting in Oregon, it hit pretty close to home yet again. I went to school just south of there, and lived in that part of Oregon for 4 years out of my life. I know people from Roseburg. I know people who actually went to the school where this happened.

Not a month ago, there was a shooting at a community college 15 minutes from where I live in Sacramento - it wasn't a mass shooting, but it was serious. And Scary. I have friends at that school.

My high school had a shooting about 6 or 7 years ago after I had graduated. My brother had just graduated the previous summer...



This doesn't happen elsewhere - and when it does, the place where it happens does something about it...

Port Arthur happened, and Australia freaked out. They haven't had a mass shooting since.

Zug Massacre happened, and Switzerland implemented a lot of changes as well, and not only made it harder to get guns, especially certain kinds of guns, but also made it so in order to get them, increased firearms training and licensing would be required.

But here in America? Nope. No changes. No changes at all. No increase in gun control. No laws preventing certain firearms. No making it harder for anyone to get firearms. No nothing.

over 500000 gun deaths have happened in the USA since 1997. More than both world wars. combined. Think about that for just a second. not even 2 decades, and there have been over half a MILLION americans killed by firearms.

Simply put, we need to make a change. I get it folks, some of you really really like guns... but sometimes you just gotta accept change in order to make us all safer.


I know that many of you will probably bring up that many of these shooters have some sort of mental illness and that we need to focus on that rather than guns or something... welllll...

Screw the whole mental illness thing...

Yes, We need to do that, but you know damn well people will still slip through the cracks because they SEEM fine, and put together a bunch of weapons in order to shoot up an office or a school or a theatre or whatever...

Mental illness is stigmatized in this country. Nobody will admit to that, or admit that they have a kid who is sick until something really really shitty happens. We barely admit that we are addicted to alcohol or drugs when we need to, what makes you think americans will just flock to mental hospitals if we increase funding and care in that direction?

First and foremost, and the most direct thing to do, is just tell all the NRA 2nd amendment rights bastards to shut the fuck up about their government takeover conspiracy, stop acting like bratty children, and realize that there needs to be stronger laws when it comes to obtaining guns and ammunition... Switzerland allows guns, but they don't have fucking ammo stores every 2-3 miles and a gun show every weekend.

Additionally, we should also require stricter firearms awareness and training courses in order to obtain these kind of weapons. If you have to go through half a week worth of awareness and training in order to drive a car, you should in order to fire a weapon that may have been designed to kill a person.

There should also be money allocated to cracking down HARD on illegal firearms. The amount of money that goes towards going after illegal firearms and that that goes towards soft yet illegal drugs such as marijuana is skewed harshly in the wrong direction.

Americans need to just shut up and realize that whoever wrote the 2nd amendment didn't take into account that we'd have automatic handheld machine guns and shit, back in the day when it was just as effective to kill somebody with a bayonet...

To all those who say "people kill people" and that shit, I retort -People would find it pretty hard to go on a 'mass stabbing' with a knife. Hell, it's hard enough to go on a 'mass swording' because people are far better at avoiding that than a gun. Anyone with a karate class can disarm a dude with a knife... but you can't disarm a gunman from 20-30 feet away...

People with guns kill people. Not all of them. But enough of them. That should be plenty of reason to make a change...

**This thread was edited on Oct 4th 2015 at 3:05:27pm
Oct 4 2015 2:51PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
Twinjibber77-They've had "mass shootings" and even most of the liberals in their land aren't blaming the guns


They've had I think 3 mass shootings over 20ish years, one was a guy killed his family, then himself, one was a school shooting, and the last one he killed his nabors and 2 cops. We have a mass shooting what every month?
Oct 12 2015 6:53PM
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Monsieur_Patate
Posts: 1393 - Karma: 4,304
Twinjibber77This brought up some very interesting thoughts to mind. I was extremely ignorant about european gun laws before moving to Europe.

I'm American as fuck and in the military... so I just assumed every country was like Germany in a sense of "NO GUNS!!! BLAH BLAHHH KILL A FEW DEER BUT NO GUNS!!!"

I'm still fairly ignorant but the things i've learned since the move and i've thought of since this post:

-In Austria it's common for the shooting ranges (clay, target, pheasant) to have a bar. It's common to drink while shooting. It's considered a norm with every person i've met from there. They think it's silly that we have so many guns, so many ranges and no drinking at any of them.
-Their mental health checks are as shitty as ours are
-They have many guns for the amount of people they have
-Military service is no longer required
-They've had "mass shootings" and even most of the liberals in their land aren't blaming the guns

I have more but that's just food for thought



The homicide rate per 100,000 in Austria is 0.18 as opposed to 3.55 in the US. So as pointed out by nocturnal, it doesn't even compare...

In Austria Automatic firearms are prohibited, and semi-auto and handguns are restricted, so once again they have gun control laws. Guns per 100,000 residents ratio in the US is 112.6 as opposed to 30.4 in Austria, even France has more guns than Austria.

I don't really get your point, but you got a lot of things wrong.
Oct 13 2015 12:12AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,899
Twinjibber77-In Austria it's common for the shooting ranges (clay, target, pheasant) to have a bar. It's common to drink while shooting. It's considered a norm with every person i've met from there. They think it's silly that we have so many guns, so many ranges and no drinking at any of them.
-Their mental health checks are as shitty as ours are
-They have many guns for the amount of people they have
-Military service is no longer required
-They've had "mass shootings" and even most of the liberals in their land aren't blaming the gunst


To your points, while drinking is the official sport of Austria, they are cracking down on alcohol at shooting ranges (where you can't have human shaped targets (heads, bodies, etc), btw)

While the checks might not be any better, they at least perform them every year post sale (unlike the USA).

Military service IS still required from ages 17-51. It only lasts 6 months, but it is 100% compulsory, nonetheless. http://www.austria.org/military-service/

The extent & number of their shootings pales in comparison to the US's though, and they know how important healthcare for their citizens is. So they have a combination of strict yet reasonable gun laws and a heathcare system to care for those who need it.
Oct 13 2015 2:52AM
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rednecknation
Posts: 548 - Karma: 63
Yeah OP ban guns so that they are illegal so that way criminals wont have them. Good idea jackass, and yeah more gun free zones are a great idea too that way criminals know where to go when they want to find another place to have a mass shooting without any armed citizen to defend the unarmed. Oh and most people that decide to concealed carry arent idiots and know how to use their sidearm. So how about fuck yourself, you probably grew up in suburbia america where mom and pop voted for clinton, obama, and really hope hillary will win. Oh and flags kill people too, so better make stricter bans on confederate flags. How about educate society instead of ban ban ban. End of rant
Oct 14 2015 12:31AM
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jblaski
Posts: 5566 - Karma: 1,078
Everyone LOVE the headlines where some piece of shit goes nuts and kills a bunch of people, yet, for some odd reason, no one seems to cover the headlines where a responsible gun owner stops a criminal and prevents the injury or deaths to innocent people.

That needs to change.

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20151012/PC16/151019801/1006/report-robber-fired-first
Oct 14 2015 2:00AM
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jblaski
Posts: 5566 - Karma: 1,078
http://kron4.com/2015/10/11/homeowner-fatally-shoots-man-in-salinas/
Oct 14 2015 2:01AM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24725 - Karma: 29,944
jblaskiEveryone LOVE the headlines where some piece of shit goes nuts and kills a bunch of people, yet, for some odd reason, no one seems to cover the headlines where a responsible gun owner stops a criminal and prevents the injury or deaths to innocent people.


That's because it's usually the police who are awarded with that sort of heroism so to speak... and there's plenty of news about police stopping idiots before they hurt or at least hurt more people...
Oct 14 2015 7:03AM
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jblaski
Posts: 5566 - Karma: 1,078
http://starlocalmedia.com/mesquitenews/news/mesquite-man-shot-after-attacking-his-grandfather/article_4c3b31b2-71c3-11e5-8328-03cc227947b6.html
Oct 15 2015 12:16PM
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jblaski
Posts: 5566 - Karma: 1,078
http://fox2now.com/2015/10/14/burglary-suspect-shot-by-woman-in-st-louis/
Oct 15 2015 6:46PM
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S.J.W
Posts: 7609 - Karma: 31,185
jblaskiEveryone LOVE the headlines where some piece of shit goes nuts and kills a bunch of people, yet, for some odd reason, no one seems to cover the headlines where a responsible gun owner stops a criminal and prevents the injury or deaths to innocent people.

That needs to change.

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20151012/PC16/151019801/1006/report-robber-fired-first


How about we cover how if you have a gun in your home you're more likely to use it on a partner, yourself, or having your kid pull the trigger than you are on an intruder
Oct 15 2015 6:58PM
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SFB
Posts: 8895 - Karma: 26,352
S.J.WHow about we cover how if you have a gun in your home you're more likely to use it on a partner, yourself, or having your kid pull the trigger than you are on an intruder

its a pretty rare occurence, if your really worried about that dont keep a gun in your house, but just because some dumb or crazy people fuck up doesnt mean you can infringe on my right to defend myself.
Oct 15 2015 7:33PM
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S.J.W
Posts: 7609 - Karma: 31,185
SFBits a pretty rare occurence, if your really worried about that dont keep a gun in your house, but just because some dumb or crazy people fuck up doesnt mean you can infringe on my right to defend myself.


NO ONE IS FUCKING SAYING TAKE AWAY EVERY SINGLE GUN IN AMERICA. ALL PEOPLE ARE ASKING FOR IS MORE RESTRICTIONS SO THIS SHIT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

Look at Switzerland for example. They have guns, but not the amount of gun related incidents that Amrica has. Now why is that? It surely couldn't be their strict gun control measures.
Oct 15 2015 7:57PM
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erikK
Posts: 3245 - Karma: 2,328
S.J.WALL PEOPLE ARE ASKING FOR IS MORE RESTRICTIONS SO THIS SHIT DOESN'T HAPPEN.
.


Lol yeah because if you put some restrictions on the laws there will never be another shooting again. simple as that, right?
Oct 15 2015 8:01PM
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S.J.W
Posts: 7609 - Karma: 31,185
erikKLol yeah because if you put some restrictions on the laws there will never be another shooting again. simple as that, right?


Has worked pretty well in every other country...
Oct 15 2015 8:05PM
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gnar_whal
Posts: 1286 - Karma: 3,787
S.J.WHas worked pretty well in every other country...


Other countries don't have the access to the amount of guns that Americans do. If you think that harsher gun control will do anything, you're an idiot. Theres millions and millions of guns in the system. Even if they were banned, do you know how easy it would be to get one? Theres more ways to get guns than at the store. Its the same with marijuana. Its not legal, yet very easy to get your hands on. If a criminal wants a gun, a simple law will not stop him from doing so
Oct 15 2015 8:13PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
gnar_whalOther countries don't have the access to the amount of guns that Americans do. If you think that harsher gun control will do anything, you're an idiot. Theres millions and millions of guns in the system. Even if they were banned, do you know how easy it would be to get one? Theres more ways to get guns than at the store. Its the same with marijuana. Its not legal, yet very easy to get your hands on. If a criminal wants a gun, a simple law will not stop him from doing so


I think it's an even dumber statement to say gun control will have no effect on the shootings. The fact that you use the absolute amd think nothing will change means you have no idea what you're talking about.
Oct 15 2015 8:24PM
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gnar_whal
Posts: 1286 - Karma: 3,787
nocturnalI think it's an even dumber statement to say gun control will have no effect on the shootings. The fact that you use the absolute amd think nothing will change means you have no idea what you're talking about.


I think you're mistaken, and honestly you don't know what you're talking about. Will harsher gun control restrict more people and possible criminals from buying guns? It might. But what about the guns that people already have? There are about 300 million guns in the United States, and over 1/3 of Americans are gun owners. If someone decides they want to go to a crowded movie theater and shoot everyone, they will, and they will be able to get their hands on a gun without breaking a sweat. I don't know why people do not understand this, but gun control won't do anything for a criminal who is motivated to kill people. Getting your hands on a gun is much easier than you think, and there are certainly more ways to do so than going to the store and buying one. And this "gun free zone" bullshit? That just gives them something to aim for.
Oct 15 2015 8:42PM
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Monsieur_Patate
Posts: 1393 - Karma: 4,304
This debate is pointless.

You come in here with statistical evidence, and the answer you get is "Nope. You're wrong, I know better."

People won't hear what they don't want to hear. It's like debating the science of evolution, guess what, there actually shouldn't even be a debate. Good thing is that now I have a better understanding of Galileo's struggle.

Only in America.
Oct 15 2015 9:56PM
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S.J.W
Posts: 7609 - Karma: 31,185
gnar_whalI think you're mistaken, and honestly you don't know what you're talking about. Will harsher gun control restrict more people and possible criminals from buying guns? It might. But what about the guns that people already have? There are about 300 million guns in the United States, and over 1/3 of Americans are gun owners. If someone decides they want to go to a crowded movie theater and shoot everyone, they will, and they will be able to get their hands on a gun without breaking a sweat. I don't know why people do not understand this, but gun control won't do anything for a criminal who is motivated to kill people. Getting your hands on a gun is much easier than you think, and there are certainly more ways to do so than going to the store and buying one. And this "gun free zone" bullshit? That just gives them something to aim for.


Okay so the gun is easy to get. What about the ammo? How will they get the ammo? And especially so much ammo to commit a mass murder like Columbine.
Oct 15 2015 10:23PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
gnar_whalI think you're mistaken, and honestly you don't know what you're talking about. Will harsher gun control restrict more people and possible criminals from buying guns? It might. But what about the guns that people already have? There are about 300 million guns in the United States, and over 1/3 of Americans are gun owners. If someone decides they want to go to a crowded movie theater and shoot everyone, they will, and they will be able to get their hands on a gun without breaking a sweat. I don't know why people do not understand this, but gun control won't do anything for a criminal who is motivated to kill people. Getting your hands on a gun is much easier than you think, and there are certainly more ways to do so than going to the store and buying one. And this "gun free zone" bullshit? That just gives them something to aim for.


If you take guns out of people's hands, (like they did in Australia from the mandatory buy back) less people are going to die from guns that's basic math and statistics. Nobody is saying banning guns that seems to be the conclusion you're coming to whenever anybody tries to be reasonable the conversation. But why don't you post up some statistics that gun laws don't affect death in any way shape or form.
Oct 15 2015 10:25PM
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deleted5
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S.J.WOkay so the gun is easy to get. What about the ammo? How will they get the ammo? And especially so much ammo to commit a mass murder like Columbine.


It's actually very easy to get ammo I have a friend who's a rifle engineer, and he makes his own bullets because it saves him money.
Oct 15 2015 10:28PM
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jblaski
Posts: 5566 - Karma: 1,078
nocturnalIf you take guns out of people's hands, (like they did in Australia from the mandatory buy back) less people are going to die from guns that's basic math and statistics. Nobody is saying banning guns that seems to be the conclusion you're coming to whenever anybody tries to be reasonable the conversation. But why don't you post up some statistics that gun laws don't affect death in any way shape or form.


So....You're not saying that you want to ban guns, right? You're just saying that you want to "take guns out of people's hands".

What's the difference exactly?
Oct 15 2015 10:28PM
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S.J.W
Posts: 7609 - Karma: 31,185
nocturnalIt's actually very easy to get ammo I have a friend who's a rifle engineer, and he makes his own bullets because it saves him money.


Didn't know you could do that to be honest.

But how many of these mass shooters could make their own bullets? Let alone enough to necessitate a mass shooting. These shooters choose guns because they're available and they're easy.
Oct 15 2015 10:32PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
jblaskiSo....You're not saying that you want to ban guns, right? You're just saying that you want to "take guns out of people's hands".

What's the difference exactly?


I didn't say that at all, what I said was gun control will definitely affect statistics of gun deaths that guy said it wouldnt. The mandatory buybacks in Australia didn't take guns out of all people hands.

You should register your gone have a background check and a psychological test, and you need to be responsible every year to keep your gun. Fail to do any of these things and I think you should lose your right to own a gun. Like when David lesh shot his gun out of a moving vehicle. Boom gun rights revoked.
Oct 15 2015 10:33PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
S.J.WDidn't know you could do that to be honest.

But how many of these mass shooters could make their own bullets? Let alone enough to necessitate a mass shooting. These shooters choose guns because they're available and they're easy.


The issue here is not people being able to make their own bullets or ban all guns. the issue is how somebody can post on the internet I'm going to shoot up a school and that household has guns in it. Those are the times some kind of agency needs to be made somebody needs to visit that house and say we need to investigate this everything is being taken away. And if you somehow you left your gun out and someone else got a hold of it you should also be responsible for what happens. People need to be responsible and aware and when they're not they need to have their rights revoked.
Oct 15 2015 10:36PM
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gnar_whal
Posts: 1286 - Karma: 3,787
nocturnalIf you take guns out of people's hands, (like they did in Australia from the mandatory buy back) less people are going to die from guns that's basic math and statistics. Nobody is saying banning guns that seems to be the conclusion you're coming to whenever anybody tries to be reasonable the conversation. But why don't you post up some statistics that gun laws don't affect death in any way shape or form.


Ok, that's cool. Explain to me how you're going to "take guns out of people's hands" exactly. You can't do that. I have a right to own a gun, and you can't infringe on my rights. 2nd amendment: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

and to the person above, making bullets yourself is easy.
Oct 15 2015 10:37PM
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jblaski
Posts: 5566 - Karma: 1,078
S.J.WDidn't know you could do that to be honest.

But how many of these mass shooters could make their own bullets? Let alone enough to necessitate a mass shooting. These shooters choose guns because they're available and they're easy.


I could go into chain sporting goods store (Dicks, Cabella's, Scheels, Gander Mountain) and buy re-loading equipment tonight, and have 1000 rounds made up by the morning.
Oct 15 2015 10:38PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
gnar_whalOk, that's cool. Explain to me how you're going to "take guns out of people's hands" exactly. You can't do that. I have a right to own a gun, and you can't infringe on my rights. 2nd amendment: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

and to the person above, making bullets yourself is easy.


You realize it's called an amendment and we can make a change. To a well regulated sane responsible militia. So just for the record you can't post up a statistic or respond to any of the points of my argument.
Oct 15 2015 10:42PM
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jblaski
Posts: 5566 - Karma: 1,078
nocturnalThe issue here is not people being able to make their own bullets or ban all guns. the issue is how somebody can post on the internet I'm going to shoot up a school and that household has guns in it. Those are the times some kind of agency needs to be made somebody needs to visit that house and say we need to investigate this everything is being taken away. And if you somehow you left your gun out and someone else got a hold of it you should also be responsible for what happens. People need to be responsible and aware and when they're not they need to have their rights revoked.


So now you want some sort of internet gun police, to watch every single post on the internet for someone who makes some sort of threat online? NS has about 150,000 members, and I'm guessing into the 10's of thousands of posts daily. How many internet gun police should be assigned to this website? Reddit has multiple millions of users and probably millions of posts per day. How many internet gun cops should watch that site?

Or maybe develop a program that flags every single post on the internet that uses the word "gun" or "shoot" or "school". And then some guys can review each post when it comes in and determines if it's a threat or not.
Oct 15 2015 10:43PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
jblaskiSo now you want some sort of internet gun police, to watch every single post on the internet for someone who makes some sort of threat online? NS has about 150,000 members, and I'm guessing into the 10's of thousands of posts daily. How many internet gun police should be assigned to this website? Reddit has multiple millions of users and probably millions of posts per day. How many internet gun cops should watch that site?

Or maybe develop a program that flags every single post on the internet that uses the word "gun" or "shoot" or "school". And then some guys can review each post when it comes in and determines if it's a threat or not.


You are completely and totally not understanding what I'm saying. Just like the DMV and a drivers license. If somebody in your house gets diagnosed with schizophrenia then yes somebody should take away your guns. If you're irresponsible with your guns yes somebody should take them away and you can go to a hearing to try to argue in front of a judge to get them back. Just like we do with cars. No we shouldn't have cops police the Internet. But we should be checking up on people who own guns. Just like how you have to get your driver's license renewed or re register your car.
Oct 15 2015 10:45PM
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jblaski
Posts: 5566 - Karma: 1,078
nocturnalI didn't say that at all,


I used quotation marks in my reply because I LITERALLY quoted you word-for-word. Yes, you did say that.
Oct 15 2015 10:45PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
jblaskiI used quotation marks in my reply because I LITERALLY quoted you word-for-word. Yes, you did say that.


Now read the next sentence in my post because context is extraodinarily important. What I said was you're taking what I said out of context. But banning all guns tomorrow would definitely somehow affect the statistics of gun deaths. What I didn't say was, that means we should then ban all guns. I think you can agree with me that we shouldn't do that, but if we did do it gun deaths would go down over time.

Not mass shootings or all crime would stop, but that less people would die a year from guns if we took guns out of circulation, and there are less guns available.
Oct 15 2015 10:50PM
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pow_pow~
Posts: 1429 - Karma: 1,804
how can anyone possibly be against mandatory registration, back ground and mental checks...


the majority of guns in the hands of criminals these days were once legally purchased within the united states, which means, somewhere along the life of that gun a "responsible" owner fucked up.


also, your 2nd amendment is just that, and amendment aka a change. it can be changed again, to stay current, if need be.
Oct 16 2015 5:29AM
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gnar_whal
Posts: 1286 - Karma: 3,787
pow_pow~how can anyone possibly be against mandatory registration, back ground and mental checks...


the majority of guns in the hands of criminals these days were once legally purchased within the united states, which means, somewhere along the life of that gun a "responsible" owner fucked up.


also, your 2nd amendment is just that, and amendment aka a change. it can be changed again, to stay current, if need be.

I am not against it. Im saying that if you think background and mental checks will be effective as you think theyll be , think again. Let's take this Recent Oregon shooter. Before the shooting, he was a normal guy, who liked collecting guns. Was he a criminaL before the shooting? No. Did he have mental issues? After the shooting, we would say yes, but before that, any mental issues? No.
It's more than simply requiring people to take background checks and mental tests.
And like I said before, even if these checks and tests kept a potential criminal from getting a gun, there are definitely other ways to get guns. If you're motivated criminal, you can even build one yourself.
http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2013/05/ak-47-semi-automatic-rifle-building-party
Oct 16 2015 7:28AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,899
gnar_whalI am not against it. Im saying that if you think background and mental checks will be effective as you think theyll be , think again. Let's take this Recent Oregon shooter. Before the shooting, he was a normal guy, who liked collecting guns. Was he a criminaL before the shooting? No. Did he have mental issues? After the shooting, we would say yes, but before that, any mental issues? No.
It's more than simply requiring people to take background checks and mental tests.
And like I said before, even if these checks and tests kept a potential criminal from getting a gun, there are definitely other ways to get guns. If you're motivated criminal, you can even build one yourself.
http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2013/05/ak-47-semi-automatic-rifle-building-party


Which, again, is why we need checks done post-sale. Background checks and mental health exams should still be done prior to sale, but then every year gun owners should pass safety & ownership courses and mental health exams like other countries that allow their common citizens to own guns. Doing this is a huge step in the right direction that allows people to continue to have their right to own guns but also takes the steps to stop the wrong people from owning guns, even if they were ok to do so when they bought the gun.
Oct 16 2015 8:11AM
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gnar_whal
Posts: 1286 - Karma: 3,787
A mental health test wouldn't have detected that he was planning to shoot up a school. And for the post gun buy background checks, you arent understanding what I'm saying. They can get guns other ways besides buying them at a store, therefore owning them without anyone else knowing, and avoiding background checks and mental health tests. If you don't buy a gun at a store there's no way to know who has a gun and who doesn't. And as I said before, with over 300 million guns in the system, it's easy to get your hands on a gun without buying one from the store , allowing you to avoid background checks and mental health tests
Oct 16 2015 10:37AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,899
gnar_whalA mental health test wouldn't have detected that he was planning to shoot up a school. And for the post gun buy background checks, you arent understanding what I'm saying. They can get guns other ways besides buying them at a store, therefore owning them without anyone else knowing, and avoiding background checks and mental health tests. If you don't buy a gun at a store there's no way to know who has a gun and who doesn't. And as I said before, with over 300 million guns in the system, it's easy to get your hands on a gun without buying one from the store , allowing you to avoid background checks and mental health tests


How are you certain that a mental health check would not have red flagged this shooter? Yes, I am sure that fantastic criminal minds could Keyser Söze their way around it, but I am sure that more than a few people would be prevented from owning guns.

I left out that people ought to register their guns. Owning or being in possession of a non-registered gun ought to then be punishable in a way that people could lose their right to own guns. Obviously, this would not help this situation in regards to guns that are bought illegally but it would help on the side of private sales and at least put more reasonable checks in place. Plus, many (if not the majority) of these shootings took place with legally purchased firearms. To assume that these people all of a sudden will find a black-market connection is not very likely.
Oct 16 2015 11:29AM
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gnar_whal
Posts: 1286 - Karma: 3,787
onenerdykidHow are you certain that a mental health check would not have red flagged this shooter? Yes, I am sure that fantastic criminal minds could Keyser Söze their way around it, but I am sure that more than a few people would be prevented from owning guns.

I left out that people ought to register their guns. Owning or being in possession of a non-registered gun ought to then be punishable in a way that people could lose their right to own guns. Obviously, this would not help this situation in regards to guns that are bought illegally but it would help on the side of private sales and at least put more reasonable checks in place. Plus, many (if not the majority) of these shootings took place with legally purchased firearms. To assume that these people all of a sudden will find a black-market connection is not very likely.


All I will say is: if there's a will theres a way.
Oct 16 2015 2:08PM
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deleted5
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gnar_whalA mental health test wouldn't have detected that he was planning to shoot up a school.

Really are you a board certified psychologist and do you know whats done at these mental health tests? Oh you don't you're just completely and totally talking out of your ass?
Oct 16 2015 2:38PM
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gnar_whal
Posts: 1286 - Karma: 3,787
nocturnalReally are you a board certified psychologist and do you know whats done at these mental health tests? Oh you don't you're just completely and totally talking out of your ass?


Thats not the point buddy. The point is, as I have stated several times, is that even if these "mental health tests" were instituted, they could be easily avoided by acquiring guns on the black market.
Oct 16 2015 3:16PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
gnar_whalThats not the point buddy. The point is, as I have stated several times, is that even if these "mental health tests" were instituted, they could be easily avoided by acquiring guns on the black market.


You want to post up some statistics because I don't believe a word you're saying, obviously I won't fix it overnight but in the long run it'll definitely make an impact.
Oct 16 2015 4:44PM
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gnar_whal
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nocturnalYou want to post up some statistics because I don't believe a word you're saying, obviously I won't fix it overnight but in the long run it'll definitely make an impact.



Stop with this statistics horseshit. It takes a real idiot to not comprehend this. I don't need statistics.
Oct 16 2015 4:59PM
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gnar_whal
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nocturnalYou want to post up some statistics because I don't believe a word you're saying, obviously I won't fix it overnight but in the long run it'll definitely make an impact.


And never did I say it wouldn't make an impact. I said it wouldn't make the impact you think it would.
Oct 16 2015 5:00PM
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onenerdykid
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gnar_whalAll I will say is: if there's a will theres a way.


No doubt. But other countries have proven that there is a better system and their systems (gun control, healthcare, etc in total) demonstrate it.
Oct 16 2015 5:14PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
gnar_whalAnd never did I say it wouldn't make an impact. I said it wouldn't make the impact you think it would.


Unilke every other country that has ever existed, that's using the same arguments your using right now. Youre opinion has been proven wrong many times over.

Also don't make assumptions and think you know what I think.
Oct 16 2015 5:23PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
gnar_whalIf you think that harsher gun control will do anything, you're an idiot.


Also don't try to twist what you said. "ANYTHING"
Oct 16 2015 5:25PM
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gnar_whal
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nocturnalUnilke every other country that has ever existed, that's using the same arguments your using right now. Youre opinion has been proven wrong many times over.

Also don't make assumptions and think you know what I think.

And, as I said before, other countries do not have access to the amount of guns that the United States does. They're already there, you can't take them out of the system
Oct 16 2015 5:30PM
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gnar_whal
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nocturnalAlso don't try to twist what you said. "ANYTHING"

1 point for you. I wasn't clear.
Oct 16 2015 5:31PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
gnar_whalAnd, as I said before, other countries do not have access to the amount of guns that the United States does. They're already there, you can't take them out of the system


Again I would love to see a statistic on that because Australia has less guns but also a much lower population. You're throwing out opinions and not backing up anything you're saying.
Oct 16 2015 7:29PM
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gnar_whal
Posts: 1286 - Karma: 3,787
nocturnalAgain I would love to see a statistic on that because Australia has less guns but also a much lower population. You're throwing out opinions and not backing up anything you're saying.


Ok I'll give you statistics when you give me proof that your plan will work.
Oct 16 2015 7:38PM
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