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So you dig your brah up, now what?

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ChasingFlakes
Posts: 822 - Karma: 1,544
I just started my first day of my advance wilderness first aid today and I just wanted to briefly touch on why I got into it in the first place ( aside from the obvious).

It's two fold. The first , I am 26, ive been a general manager of a hotel and now a restaurant manager and made upwards of 80k a year. I fucking hhhhhhate my job. So here i am 26, married, kid and starting down a new career path hopefully leading to guiding or forecasting.

Second, and this one is more importanter than the first. A few seasons ago I was involved in an avalanche rescue. I won't bore you with the gory details but had this incident not happened in an area where a group was being guided. The victim would have died. We did everything bang on, beacon search under 5 minutes with a positive probe strike but with a burial of almost 2m in a flat deposition zone and only 3 people to extricate, it took us 30 minutes or so to get a clear airway. unresponsive, my partner and I have no clue where to even begin. Lucky for the victim the guide from the group near by was able to start getting him air and a after more digging, was able to being chest compression's.

I didn't know the guy who was caught, he was in another party but it hit home pretty hard. While your AST1 is an very crucial component to responsible backcountry recreation it isn't the only thing you need. I couldn't imagine digging up a friend , having done everything by the avalanche handbook only to have they lay at feet and watch them slip away. Just an FYI the victim, will never drive a care again and after two years I'm still not sure he is walking yet.

Not preachin , just sharing.
Oct 1 2015 10:16PM
10 8
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
i never took ast1 s and that entire curriculum can easily be gained and practiced without the class
so crucial is a preachy stretch imo
did get an emt cert good life skills to have
i'll spend the $$ on a good woofer course before an airbag
ABC's and hope to not need ALS
Oct 1 2015 11:31PM
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ChasingFlakes
Posts: 822 - Karma: 1,544
SFBv420.0i never took ast1 s and that entire curriculum can easily be gained and practiced without the class
so crucial is a preachy stretch imo
did get an emt cert good life skills to have
i'll spend the $$ on a good woofer course before an airbag
ABC's and hope to not need ALS


I don't really agree with that. You could just as well purchase the hand book for first aid and do your own research on that as well. The idea of an AST1 isn't to make you an expert ( obviously ) but to take those who have zero idea about avalanche terrain, give them a bit of practical knowledge on terrain selection as well as companion rescue. Most importantly you are able to ask questions with someone competent and not your rooms mates cousin who skis off " the back side" all the time. I left my AST feeling less confident about my abilities of reading terrain and conditions then i felt going in. That prompted more study and lost of time tip toeing around the backcountry for years.
Oct 5 2015 3:47PM
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ChasingFlakes
Posts: 822 - Karma: 1,544
SFBv420.0i never took ast1 s and that entire curriculum can easily be gained and practiced without the class
so crucial is a preachy stretch imo
did get an emt cert good life skills to have
i'll spend the $$ on a good woofer course before an airbag
ABC's and hope to not need ALS


I don't really agree with that. You could just as well purchase the hand book for first aid and do your own research on that as well. The idea of an AST1 isn't to make you an expert ( obviously ) but to take those who have zero idea about avalanche terrain, give them a bit of practical knowledge on terrain selection as well as companion rescue. Most importantly you are able to ask questions with someone competent and not your rooms mates cousin who skis off " the back side" all the time. I left my AST feeling less confident about my abilities of reading terrain and conditions then i felt going in. That prompted more study and lost of time tip toeing around the backcountry for years.
Oct 5 2015 3:47PM
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jblaski
Posts: 5566 - Karma: 1,078
ChasingFlakes I left my AST feeling less confident about my abilities of reading terrain and conditions then i felt going in. That prompted more study and lost of time tip toeing around the backcountry for years.[/QUOTEThis sentence stood out, because it's so true. The more I learn about avalanche education (I'm avy I&II), the more I realized how much I didn't know. You enter avy education with a pretty narrow vision of avalanches and terrain, and the more you learn, you more you realize how much out there could kill you. Never let the learning stop.
Oct 5 2015 10:24PM
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
i have an avvy 2 cert , took a semester class on snow science through an university
and have an emt cert and years probably a decade of experience on you
it doesn't mean I'm a more responsible backcountry recreationist than you, it just means i have more training and experience. I may or may not have a higher risk tolerance which is an important thing to factor in or discuss.
Nor was not taking avvy 1 detrimental in my training.There are a shitload of super experienced tourers who never have taken a formal avvy class. 15 or 20 years ago there were no where near as many classes or options.
There are thousands of people who have learned vocations and skills w/out formal education. While i'm not saying avvy 1 isn't a potential good start or worth it it isn't the magic avvy dragon slaying silver bullets some think it is
it's a 24 hour class w/ no test to prove competence show up get the cert.
the semester long snow study class had over a dozen field days and for a similiar price provided way more instruction in both class and field time, than my avvy 2 class but no piece of paper certification
in order to gain an emt cert you must pass both a written test and practical exam
and some organizations allow you to challenge the written and practical test.
Oct 6 2015 7:32AM
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ChasingFlakes
Posts: 822 - Karma: 1,544
SFBv420.0i have an avvy 2 cert , took a semester class on snow science through an university
and have an emt cert and years probably a decade of experience on you
it doesn't mean I'm a more responsible backcountry recreationist than you, it just means i have more training and experience. I may or may not have a higher risk tolerance which is an important thing to factor in or discuss.
Nor was not taking avvy 1 detrimental in my training.There are a shitload of super experienced tourers who never have taken a formal avvy class. 15 or 20 years ago there were no where near as many classes or options.
There are thousands of people who have learned vocations and skills w/out formal education. While i'm not saying avvy 1 isn't a potential good start or worth it it isn't the magic avvy dragon slaying silver bullets some think it is
it's a 24 hour class w/ no test to prove competence show up get the cert.
the semester long snow study class had over a dozen field days and for a similiar price provided way more instruction in both class and field time, than my avvy 2 class but no piece of paper certification
in order to gain an emt cert you must pass both a written test and practical exam
and some organizations allow you to challenge the written and practical test.


I think we're both on the same page. Take home point. Get educated for safe backcountry travel AND learn what to do when or ish your friend gets broke off.
Oct 8 2015 1:36PM
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Hugh_Conway_jr
Posts: 746 - Karma: 467
You all speak truths, but in the context of this forum ( generally younger folks, generally zero to minimal experience), I think its best promote formal training, be that a level 1 avy or a basic first aid ... you got to start some place.

Now to add to the debate, consider the statistics of Resuscitation and avalanche survival... You will be far better served if you can read the terrain well, so focus on that. search skills and first aid are great, but once you take that ride, your chances of survival drop drastically.

even if you beat the clock, we all know that multi system trauma is a bitch to manage in the BC, and even with ACLS equipment and training its very difficult to successfully resuscitate a trauma pt who has been asphyxiated.

Point being, the basics of BC travel with serve you better than being able to conduct a multi burial search and preform your ACLS algorithms... speaking from experience.

Knowledge is Power.
Nov 29 2015 7:42AM
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tBatt
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 580
Agreed that avoiding the situation i.e reading terrain and assessing snowpack is step one of being avy savy, but it's equally important to have the training for when shit goes wrong. With the increased amount of people venturing in to the BC, at some point someone will be doing everything correctly and another group will be making the bad decisions, cut a slope or cornice on top of another party, and you'll be left to take care of the rescue.
Dec 3 2015 12:23PM
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ChasingFlakes
Posts: 822 - Karma: 1,544
It's all pieces to a puzzle. My main thought when i posted this was that many will take an AST and forget the rest. Obviously the best way to survive a slide is not to be caught in one. Same for crevasse rescue but hey mistakes happen. Take a first aid course, take an avy course and ask questions but most of all keep reading, keep digging and don't get complacent.
Dec 3 2015 10:12PM
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