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Hey team, how boned is this ski

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msg
Posts: 1108 - Karma: 3,269
So basically I bought these (thalls) last year, put 5 days on them the first year, then 3 days earlier this year then noticed a bit of delamination. Chased up Armada, then backcountry, only for them to tell me they were about 20 days out of warranty (rough)

Condition:



Said fuck it and took them down south for a couple more days. Ate shit, went to do the inspections yesterday and noticed the delams gotten pretty bad now.

Condition:





How boned am I, and how should I remedy the situation?

Thanx team
Aug 21 2015 9:50AM
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shin-bang
Posts: 4100 - Karma: 6,997
Idk what to say other than keep riding them. But those axials look in good condition lol
Aug 21 2015 10:00AM
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mski
Posts: 4791 - Karma: 3,803
Rastafarians are not well know for their ski technology

Lesson learned
Aug 21 2015 10:10AM
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corona
Posts: 12794 - Karma: 32,719
Keep riding them, but do a fix on them first. I'd take the binding off, then get a good glue that wicks well and bend the ski a bit so you can get as much glue between the topsheet as you can then clamp it well. depending you the glue that might be enough on its own, or you could throw some screws in the top to be sure.
Aug 21 2015 10:17AM
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kylemclean
Posts: 413 - Karma: 1,311
VinnieFKeep riding them, but do a fix on them first. I'd take the binding off, then get a good glue that wicks well and bend the ski a bit so you can get as much glue between the topsheet as you can then clamp it well. depending you the glue that might be enough on its own, or you could throw some screws in the top to be sure.


Don't do this

If you want to do it yourself use a good 2-part epoxy not glue. Don't put a screw in there either it will just eat at the core.

The easiest and beat way is definatley just taking it to a shop. Most shops that tune also do repairs. That way if they fuck up its there fault not yours and they should give you at least some compensation
Aug 21 2015 11:00AM
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SteezyStokes
Posts: 154 - Karma: 246
That's bunk, I had some factions last year that broke down after about 3/4 of a season. There was some major core shots and an edge was cracked and almost ripped out. This was only from skiing a lot of park and some glades (I'm in the east so there isn't a lot of snow coverage and a lot of rocks). However I sent pictures of the damage and they apologized saying that they were a faulty pair and sent me new skis free of charge. I didn't even have to send in the damaged ones and they even sent me some fresh factions socks.

All in all buy factions next time they have great customer service.
Aug 21 2015 11:13AM
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Poikenz
Posts: 1478 - Karma: 3,761
Where did you get them mounted? You could at least try arguing that it was the shops fault as the screw in your heel looks like it isn't really holding. I mean that isn't what caused the delam but you might be able to strike some sort of deal out of it.

Other than that, yeah I'd unscrew the heel piece and use a two part epoxy to fill the crack, get it in deeper with a thin exacto blade (the more you can push in the better) just try not to get it to delam more. Clamp it down with a couple pieces of wood or metal bar to get even pressure and leave it for the recommended time. In terms of epoxy, the best small kit I'd recommend would be west's g flex. It isn't the best epoxy, but it will hold up better than most small sized kits.
Aug 21 2015 11:14AM
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corona
Posts: 12794 - Karma: 32,719
kylemcleanDon't do this

If you want to do it yourself use a good 2-part epoxy not glue. Don't put a screw in there either it will just eat at the core.

The easiest and beat way is definatley just taking it to a shop. Most shops that tune also do repairs. That way if they fuck up its there fault not yours and they should give you at least some compensation


Problem with epoxy is getting it to wick into the entire surface that's been delaminated so that there's no space for water to get in. But epoxy would be preferred if possible.

As for screws, what do you think is holding in your bindings? Magic? Screws are 100% fine and will not 'eat at the core'. That's some bs. So long as they're installed with sealer to stop water getting in.
Aug 21 2015 3:44PM
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kylemclean
Posts: 413 - Karma: 1,311
Screws on bindins are designed to not damage a ski as it flexes so you can't just put a random screw in there. Also good luck finding a screw small enough to not puncture the base that will also fit under the binding
Aug 21 2015 4:29PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7143 - Karma: 17,438
Are you sure it's a delam op? It looks like a broken sidewall. I would guess your edge caught the sidewall and broke a strip out. If that is the case you just need it reselling. They will never be as strong as you have lost some of the structure of the ski but they should hold up ok for a whIle. If there is a delam then when the sidewall is filled they can clamp the ski but a I say it looks more like sidewall damage then a delam.
Aug 21 2015 5:44PM
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msg
Posts: 1108 - Karma: 3,269
PoikenzWhere did you get them mounted? You could at least try arguing that it was the shops fault as the screw in your heel looks like it isn't really holding. I mean that isn't what caused the delam but you might be able to strike some sort of deal out of it.

Other than that, yeah I'd unscrew the heel piece and use a two part epoxy to fill the crack, get it in deeper with a thin exacto blade (the more you can push in the better) just try not to get it to delam more. Clamp it down with a couple pieces of wood or metal bar to get even pressure and leave it for the recommended time. In terms of epoxy, the best small kit I'd recommend would be west's g flex. It isn't the best epoxy, but it will hold up better than most small sized kits.


Got them mounted at a reputable shop kind of near the hill. I trust them, but everyone makes mistakes. I could have potentially argued before I took them back down and put that chunk of damage behind the brake that you can see in the 2nd and 3rd photo. Because of that chip I think it is all on me now.

tomPietrowskiAre you sure it's a delam op? It looks like a broken sidewall. I would guess your edge caught the sidewall and broke a strip out. If that is the case you just need it reselling. They will never be as strong as you have lost some of the structure of the ski but they should hold up ok for a whIle. If there is a delam then when the sidewall is filled they can clamp the ski but a I say it looks more like sidewall damage then a delam.


I thought it was delam as the whole layer had basically separated WITHOUT having any sidewall damage (ie that chunk you see was not there originally , that has just made the problem worse). Of course, I'm not sure.

Thanks for the help fellas.
Aug 21 2015 6:34PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7143 - Karma: 17,438
Yeah it's kind of hard to tell but if you look at the armada stamp the letters finish at the top of the red part whereas at the bottom there is green beneath the letters which would indicate you are infact missing some sidewall at the top. Hopefully that is all it is and should be fairly easy to fill
Aug 21 2015 8:22PM
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corona
Posts: 12794 - Karma: 32,719
kylemcleanScrews on bindins are designed to not damage a ski as it flexes so you can't just put a random screw in there. Also good luck finding a screw small enough to not puncture the base that will also fit under the binding


what are you saying. they're screws. it's wood. this isn't some space age material that's designed specifically for a screw made of carbon fibre that can only have 12 threads per inch. You are 100% wrong about screws damaging the core as it flexes.

And no, it's not hard to find a screw. What about binding screws. The damage is behind the bindings so one of those with washers at the ends of where it's delaminating would absolutely work to stop it delaminating any more. Not a pretty solution, but if an adhesive doesn't work properly then adhesive and screws would be the best bet.
Aug 22 2015 1:29AM
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corona
Posts: 12794 - Karma: 32,719
never mind, it's under the binding.
Aug 22 2015 1:30AM
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BernardL
Posts: 4 - Karma: 72
my skis are way more fucked up and i rode them for a week up at hood. you should be fine if you fix them up.
Aug 22 2015 2:05PM
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msg
Posts: 1108 - Karma: 3,269
BernardLmy skis are way more fucked up and i rode them for a week up at hood. you should be fine if you fix them up.


Yeah well MY dad only has 5 mil
Aug 22 2015 7:40PM
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rozboon
Posts: 1642 - Karma: 868
It's because they're a hybrid cap/sidewall ski and I would say it's quite likely that someone did a kinda poor job of the mount.

Either the holes weren't drilled deep enough, so the binding + screw + cap section is getting "jacked" off the sidewall part of the ski, or the screws used were too short and are only gripping the cap section and pulling it away from the sidewall part of the ski.

I would be inclined to remove the heelpiece, inspect the holes and measure the screws (particularly their protrusion from the binding), then mix some 2-part epoxy, heat it so it's thin, pour it in there, keep a heat lamp on it for an hour or so to help it flow and clamp the hell out of it overnight. Then re-mount the heelpiece and do a better job than the first person did.
Aug 23 2015 5:19PM
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msg
Posts: 1108 - Karma: 3,269
rozboonIt's because they're a hybrid cap/sidewall ski and I would say it's quite likely that someone did a kinda poor job of the mount.

Either the holes weren't drilled deep enough, so the binding + screw + cap section is getting "jacked" off the sidewall part of the ski, or the screws used were too short and are only gripping the cap section and pulling it away from the sidewall part of the ski.

I would be inclined to remove the heelpiece, inspect the holes and measure the screws (particularly their protrusion from the binding), then mix some 2-part epoxy, heat it so it's thin, pour it in there, keep a heat lamp on it for an hour or so to help it flow and clamp the hell out of it overnight. Then re-mount the heelpiece and do a better job than the first person did.


Yeah I'm kind of new to the whole binding sector of skiing...if I unscrew my heel piece, do I need any special tools to insert them back in?

Would love to read a good, informative article to become educated if you have a link to one btw
Aug 23 2015 7:45PM
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Poikenz
Posts: 1478 - Karma: 3,761
dodgeYeah I'm kind of new to the whole binding sector of skiing...if I unscrew my heel piece, do I need any special tools to insert them back in?

Would love to read a good, informative article to become educated if you have a link to one btw


If you don't trust yourself, take them to a shop, explain why you want your heel removed and more or less sweet talk your way into being allowed to watch. They can probably do the whole fix for you.

With that said, all you need is a screwdriver, take the screws out carefully and when you put them back in don't over-tighten or you will strip the holes. It is pretty likely that you will strip a hole having no experience, so either practice on a 2x4, or take them to your shop. If you strip a hole, your options are to helicoil or remount the heel in a different spot.

Also be careful with heating epoxy to thin it out as it will cut your work time drastically. AKA if you buy a 5-min "quick cure" you will probably only get a minute or two of work time.
Aug 23 2015 8:19PM
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msg
Posts: 1108 - Karma: 3,269
Clamping them down didn't actually compress the damage, so I put it down as just sidewall damage, no delamination. Got them curing now.

http://imgur.com/ex8A4RT
Aug 29 2015 3:27AM
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