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People that hunt for fun are closet psychopaths. They murder for joy, not survival. They kill so they can show how "strong" they are by mounting carcasses in their homes for all to see. These creatures that kill for fun are not humans, they are demons, and they must be stopped.
Bombogenesisthese people don't deserve to inhale the same air the rest of us do.
Its a very wasteful practice. A lot of resources are wasted so white people can fly thousands of miles to shoot one animal at near point blank range. It's truley ridiculous. Isnt part of hunting the challenge?
I think the use of a motorized vehicle to assist in hunting anything should be banned.
_Fluffy_Its a very wasteful practice. A lot of resources are wasted so white people can fly thousands of miles to shoot one animal at near point blank range. It's truley ridiculous. Isnt part of hunting the challenge?
I think the use of a motorized vehicle to assist in hunting anything should be banned.
I don't think you should make it into a white issue...it's an asshole issue.
_Fluffy_Sorry but it's mostly white people. I'm not going to ignore that fact because it skinda bad
well yeah...no kidding. But it's a psychopathic thing I think more than anything. It's usually rich white dudes because it costs a lot of money but I don't know...I think if you're caught doing this kind of thing you need a psych eval.
Rich white people should not spend their money on things they like to do. That's terrible. They should just keep all their money for fear of spending it on something that somebody somewhere might find offensive
_Fluffy_Sorry but it's mostly white people. I'm not going to ignore that fact because it skinda bad
Quit adding your own lttle facts to the story, nowhere in your img post does it say race. It sounds super fucking dumb when you substitute the word "americans" for "whites".
Your bias is in no way grounded in reality. Your lack of any research into the other side of the argument shows how shallow your thinking is. Sport hunting is, without any room for doubt, the single largest driving force in conservation in Africa. I have been on safari. I have shot animals like those you pictured, and posed for similar pictures. I feel extremely good about my decision and about where my money went.
I'll put this in very simple terms for you. Africa as a continent is exceedingly poor. The divide between rich and poor is massive, and the poor are truly poor. Very often men struggle to provide any nutrition at all for their families. If there is an impala, a cape buffalo, or other game animal nearby, it would be difficult to construct an argument that the man should not poach the animal, rather than let his family go hungry. Watching a wild animal has zero value to a poor African.
Look at rhinos, elephants, etc. A rhino horn, sold on the black market, represents literally 100 or 1000 times how much a poor African might make in a year, or a lifetime. The idea of simply poaching that rhino and selling its horn and being able to provide for one's family (or simply satisfy basic human greed) is an almost insurmountable draw. For poaching to not be an end to wildlife in Africa, this wildlife must pay its way. Photo "safaris" draw very, very, very little in comparison to sport safaris.
To look at the rhino example in a bit more detail, since rhinos are an easily relatable animal (much more so than say a lechwe), here is some more information, all my own words.
In the hunting circles, especially the African hunting circles, the ultimate goal is to take the "Big 5." The Big 5 consists of Elephant, Lion, Leopard, Cape Buffalo, and Rhino. These are storied beasts, steeped in legend, and all dangerous to hunt regardless of weapon used. Leopard and Cape Buffalo are reasonable price-wise to harvest. Lion and Elephant are expensive, particularly trophy males. Rhino are in a whole different class, usually in the six figure range.
Yes, Rhino numbers are drastically down from historic levels. There are two different types of rhinos in Africa, the White Rhino and the Black Rhino. The White Rhino is the more affordable and more available option, with only a few Black Rhino harvested each year (prices in the high six figures.) So why hunt rhinos? The answer is surprisingly simple, and quite logical.
Rhinos are poached in large numbers because their horns are believed to have aphrodisiac powers, specifically in Asia. Africa is a very poor continent. People are literally starving there, especially in the more wild areas where rhinos are found. Poaching one rhino and selling its horn on the black market represents an amazing opportunity to better one's life and feed one's family. It is hard to blame the natives for poaching the rhinos when we take the time to look at the conditions in which they live. As such, every rhino that can be found gets poached. The natives are responsible for the decline in rhino numbers, not the white hunters such as the one in the picture.
How can this issue be resolved? Yes, there are game scouts and patrollers, but the African bush is very vast and the motivation to poach high. This is not a viable solution. The answer is to make the rhinos more valuable alive than dead. By allowing a limited number of white hunters to come in and legally take a rhino for six figures, and have a large portion of this money go to the local people, all of a sudden the natives become the best friends of the rhinos. Their number one goal has now changed to making sure that every rhino is protected and revered. They want there to be enough rhinos around that the government will allot a few tags to white hunters. The absolutely enormous financial infusion that stems from the legal harvest of one white rhino is worth so much more than hawking a few horns on the black market. The same has been done with elephants, tremendously successfully. Money talks, here in the US, and in Africa.
Whether you like it or not, sport hunting in Africa is carefully managed with specific quotas set by each individual country's government. Licensed outfitters get quotas and employ well-trained professional hunters who guide clients to appropriate animals. Most outfitters employ or fund large anti-poaching units, as they, more than anyone else, want game animals to remain in large numbers in their concessions, so as to be issued quotas in the future.
If you are truly interested in learning more about the other side of this issue, I highly recommend the book Game Changer. It deals specifically with sport hunting in Africa, and contrasts countries that have successful sport hunting programs and countries where hunting has been made illegal, such as Kenya. Kenya's wildlife was in abundance until it banned hunting. Immediately wildlife lost any monetary value, and instead was seen as an easy source of protein. Wildlife numbers have plummeted, and areas that were once rich in game are all but barren.
cool_nameIs it a white thing or a rich person thing? No need to add race where it doesn't belong.
It's a Rich White American problem.
"Most of the folks who do this are men from a wealthier subset. These are people who, for vacation, go to an African country and pay up to tens of thousands of dollars for the opportunity to kill a lion, rhino or elephant that they can bring back home."
"When the government tells a local man in Chad that he can't hunt but then allows a rich, white hunter from Texas to hunt, it's a really terrible message to send," he said. "It's colonialistic and sends mixed signals to locals who see hunting is OK when a rich, white guy does it but not OK when a local does it."
"A $350,000 permit to hunt a rare black rhino was sold last December, international hunting organization Dallas Safari Club announced"
""What happens in practice, most of the time, that money goes straight to corrupt government officials or outfitters and doesn't actually wind up back in hands of local community where hunting goes on, and they then aren't incentivized to protect wildlife and conservation areas," he said."
"The number of mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians and fish across the globe is, on average, about half the size it was 40 years ago, according to a report released by the World Wildlife Fund last October."
iFlipYour bias is in no way grounded in reality. Your lack of any research into the other side of the argument shows how shallow your thinking is. Sport hunting is, without any room for doubt, the single largest driving force in conservation in Africa. I have been on safari. I have shot animals like those you pictured, and posed for similar pictures. I feel extremely good about my decision and about where my money went.
I'll put this in very simple terms for you. Africa as a continent is exceedingly poor. The divide between rich and poor is massive, and the poor are truly poor. Very often men struggle to provide any nutrition at all for their families. If there is an impala, a cape buffalo, or other game animal nearby, it would be difficult to construct an argument that the man should not poach the animal, rather than let his family go hungry. Watching a wild animal has zero value to a poor African.
Look at rhinos, elephants, etc. A rhino horn, sold on the black market, represents literally 100 or 1000 times how much a poor African might make in a year, or a lifetime. The idea of simply poaching that rhino and selling its horn and being able to provide for one's family (or simply satisfy basic human greed) is an almost insurmountable draw. For poaching to not be an end to wildlife in Africa, this wildlife must pay its way. Photo "safaris" draw very, very, very little in comparison to sport safaris.
To look at the rhino example in a bit more detail, since rhinos are an easily relatable animal (much more so than say a lechwe), here is some more information, all my own words.
In the hunting circles, especially the African hunting circles, the ultimate goal is to take the "Big 5." The Big 5 consists of Elephant, Lion, Leopard, Cape Buffalo, and Rhino. These are storied beasts, steeped in legend, and all dangerous to hunt regardless of weapon used. Leopard and Cape Buffalo are reasonable price-wise to harvest. Lion and Elephant are expensive, particularly trophy males. Rhino are in a whole different class, usually in the six figure range.
Yes, Rhino numbers are drastically down from historic levels. There are two different types of rhinos in Africa, the White Rhino and the Black Rhino. The White Rhino is the more affordable and more available option, with only a few Black Rhino harvested each year (prices in the high six figures.) So why hunt rhinos? The answer is surprisingly simple, and quite logical.
Rhinos are poached in large numbers because their horns are believed to have aphrodisiac powers, specifically in Asia. Africa is a very poor continent. People are literally starving there, especially in the more wild areas where rhinos are found. Poaching one rhino and selling its horn on the black market represents an amazing opportunity to better one's life and feed one's family. It is hard to blame the natives for poaching the rhinos when we take the time to look at the conditions in which they live. As such, every rhino that can be found gets poached. The natives are responsible for the decline in rhino numbers, not the white hunters such as the one in the picture.
How can this issue be resolved? Yes, there are game scouts and patrollers, but the African bush is very vast and the motivation to poach high. This is not a viable solution. The answer is to make the rhinos more valuable alive than dead. By allowing a limited number of white hunters to come in and legally take a rhino for six figures, and have a large portion of this money go to the local people, all of a sudden the natives become the best friends of the rhinos. Their number one goal has now changed to making sure that every rhino is protected and revered. They want there to be enough rhinos around that the government will allot a few tags to white hunters. The absolutely enormous financial infusion that stems from the legal harvest of one white rhino is worth so much more than hawking a few horns on the black market. The same has been done with elephants, tremendously successfully. Money talks, here in the US, and in Africa.
Whether you like it or not, sport hunting in Africa is carefully managed with specific quotas set by each individual country's government. Licensed outfitters get quotas and employ well-trained professional hunters who guide clients to appropriate animals. Most outfitters employ or fund large anti-poaching units, as they, more than anyone else, want game animals to remain in large numbers in their concessions, so as to be issued quotas in the future.
If you are truly interested in learning more about the other side of this issue, I highly recommend the book Game Changer. It deals specifically with sport hunting in Africa, and contrasts countries that have successful sport hunting programs and countries where hunting has been made illegal, such as Kenya. Kenya's wildlife was in abundance until it banned hunting. Immediately wildlife lost any monetary value, and instead was seen as an easy source of protein. Wildlife numbers have plummeted, and areas that were once rich in game are all but barren.
That wasn't the question. The question was "why kill for pleasure?" It certainly isn't for meat or for a systematic cull of overpopulated species which are both very valid practices.
If they were house cats, dogs or any number of other animals not killed for food, you'd be labeled a sick fuck in all reality.
If you can't see the parallels of pure sport trophy hunting to psychotic tendencies, you're living in a dream world. Despite the economic details, it's still getting a rush from ending the life of a stories and exotic animal, and in the least "sporting" method imaginable aside from maybe using an Apache Longbow. It's more than a little pathetic that so many feel so accomplished for having "hunted" an animal raised to be shot in many cases.
Tell yourself you're doing the locals and the animals a service all you want but the rest of the world will always look down on trophy sport killings the same way we look down on impotent Chinese men who sprinkle rhino horn on their dicks in the hopes it will work one day. Everybody has their reason for making shitty decisions and while rich white people are perhaps the most entitled of all, you're still no better than the flaccid Chinamen causing the shortage to begin with- it's just very fortunate that the local economy has figured out how to capitalize on you, otherwise you'd simply be clamoring along with all the rest to shoot the last one.
iFlipYour bias is in no way grounded in reality. Your lack of any research into the other side of the argument shows how shallow your thinking is.
I am not bias. The Trophy hunters are hiding behind the conservation argument because one of their brethren fucked up.
"70.4 percent of Americans would pay to view lions on an African safari, while only 6.6 percent would pay to hunt them." Those numbers suggest wildlife tourism has a significantly larger potential audience than trophy hunting.
Corruption can also play a major role in the permit process, fueling unsustainable hunting through what is essentially legalized poaching. Furthermore, the IFAW points to a study that found that a mere 3 to 5 percent of hunting revenues actually reach fringe communities.
Finally, hunting can promote "reverse evolution," according to the IFAW. Hunters often prize the largest, healthiest specimens they can find. Weaker animals with smaller manes or shorter horns aren't harvested, and therefore may pass on their genes. Many legal hunts get around this, however, by targeting animals past their breeding prime."
"Trophy hunting isn't a clear win or lose then when it comes to conservation efforts. With the issue not settled, the matter comes down to a question of philosophy. Is the killing of one animal a justifiable means of protecting an entire species, or can we encourage life without causing death?"
Caucasian_AsianI've never been hunting. Doesn't appeal to me.
But, I have been on a guided fishing trip to Haida Gwai'i. I paid a guide to help me catch and kill fish. And I posed for pictures with them.
Does this make me a psychopath? No, It means I like fishing.
This argument is stupid.
While I see the point you're trying to make, it's not exactly the same as what Fluffy is talking about (who I think is definitely trying pretty hard with this thread). Was your trip solely based on acquiring the trophy and the thrill of the hunt?
Regardless, it is a bit of a stretch to say that trophy hunters are closet psychopaths. Trophy hunting is arguably dehumanizing & unethical, but that is not to say it is necessarily indicative of being a psychopath. Psychopathic tendencies on the other hand? Maybe. It's arguably an activity that hints at the more primal, barbaric traits we are capable of. As such, hunting solely for sport where there is no need to kill the animal for your own survival or to ensure the larger population is kept safe definitely echoes a passion for killing, and as such is not a characteristic befitting a being who is supposedly above and better than the animal kingdom.
onenerdykidWhile I see the point you're trying to make, it's not exactly the same as what Fluffy is talking about (who I think is definitely trying pretty hard with this thread). Was your trip solely based on acquiring the trophy and the thrill of the hunt?
Regardless, it is a bit of a stretch to say that trophy hunters are closet psychopaths. Trophy hunting is arguably dehumanizing & unethical, but that is not to say it is necessarily indicative of being a psychopath. Psychopathic tendencies on the other hand? Maybe. It's arguably an activity that hints at the more primal, barbaric traits we are capable of. As such, hunting solely for sport where there is no need to kill the animal for your own survival or to ensure the larger population is kept safe definitely echoes a passion for killing, and as such is not a characteristic befitting a being who is supposedly above and better than the animal kingdom.
I like to take it too far to see how people react. I Think most could be considered mild sociopaths. Doctor Palmer has had sexual harassment issues in the past. I think anyone who is willing to drop the kind of money it takes to go rip the heart out of a lion has some issues.
.Hugo.Ya but no one needs to hunt them to survive anymore, the main reason people hint nowadays is its something they enjoy doing.
And what do you think that when african animals are shot the meat is just left to rot? The majority of deer hunters just waste the hide of the deer
Maybe they do it to build character and better appreciate how easy life is. I think I would learn a lot from killing a deer, although im positive it would sadden me. I think trophy hunters lack a great deal of empathy.
_Fluffy_Maybe they do it to build character and better appreciate how easy life is. I think I would learn a lot from killing a deer, although im positive it would sadden me. I think trophy hunters lack a great deal of empathy.
A lot of deer hunters are trophy hunters as well. Its all about finding the biggest rack with the most points. Every discipline of hunting is loaded with trophy hunters. Which is why i dont get why people like you are appalled with hunting in africa but ok with it here. Is it because you watched the lion king as a child or.....?
.Hugo.A lot of deer hunters are trophy hunters as well. Its all about finding the biggest rack with the most points. Every discipline of hunting is loaded with trophy hunters. Which is why i dont get why people like you are appalled with hunting in africa but ok with it here. Is it because you watched the lion king as a child or.....?
and I'm talking about trophy hunters. Some people still kill deer/fish/fowl for food believe it or not.
I think its stupid to kill animals just to mount them on a wall. If the hunter is shooting game to eat for a long time then thats perfect. Id rather have that then have them supporting the beef industry.
_Fluffy_and I'm talking about trophy hunters. Some people still kill deer/fish/fowl for food believe it or not.
I think its stupid to kill animals just to mount them on a wall. If the hunter is shooting game to eat for a long time then thats perfect. Id rather have that then have them supporting the beef industry.
But they dont need to shoot and kill those animals for food so why do they do it? Because they enjoy it or as you said in your title hunt for fun
So people who shoot big deer, moose, caribou etc to mount them also eat the meat is what youre saying and i agree with that. But you know for a fact the meat in african animals hunted for trophies goes to waste? I highly doubt it. Poachers ya, hunters no
.Hugo.Ya but no one needs to hunt them to survive anymore, the main reason people hint nowadays is its something they enjoy doing.
And what do you think that when african animals are shot the meat is just left to rot? The majority of deer hunters just waste the hide of the deer
I hear you. I just don't agree with the desire to shoot and kill a lion, rhino, elephant or really any other animal that is just being shot so people can think they're cool.
IMO real hunters or sportfishermen have every intention of eating their kill/catch, and don't just go around killing shit because they think it's cool to kill shit.
And that's your problem. You haven't mentioned talking to any trophy hunters, so you don't know. You just speculate.
Most people that hunt and fish, do it for the sport. They enjoy it. Those that consume their kill, also do so because they enjoy it. Not because they need to.
And that's your problem. You haven't mentioned talking to any trophy hunters, so you don't know. You just speculate.
Most people that hunt and fish, do it for the sport. They enjoy it. Those that consume their kill, also do so because they enjoy it. Not because they need to.
I grew up in Idaho and I was surrounded by hunter my entire life.
.Hugo.But they dont need to shoot and kill those animals for food so why do they do it? Because they enjoy it or as you said in your title hunt for fun
So people who shoot big deer, moose, caribou etc to mount them also eat the meat is what youre saying and i agree with that. But you know for a fact the meat in african animals hunted for trophies goes to waste? I highly doubt it. Poachers ya, hunters no
Also, the meat tastes better, is arguably healthier, wild deer are treated somewhat more humanely than a cow in a feedlot (if ya gotta eat meat) and in a lot of areas the deer/moose herd needs to be culled.
.Hugo.But they dont need to shoot and kill those animals for food so why do they do it? Because they enjoy it or as you said in your title hunt for fun
So people who shoot big deer, moose, caribou etc to mount them also eat the meat is what youre saying and i agree with that. But you know for a fact the meat in african animals hunted for trophies goes to waste? I highly doubt it. Poachers ya, hunters no
This girl from my school shot a zebra a little while back, and some people were flaming on her because "she was a phycopath"....but she paid money to shoot it completely legally. Also none of it went to waste. The guides take any animal that is unable to be transported home and give it to the local tribes.
She was saying the tribe was dancing around and stuff. Pretty cool they fed them for quite a while.
S.J.WA question to pro hunters. Do you have any objection to what Japan is doing to whales?
Killing hundreds of whales in the name of scientific research is not even close to the hunting we're talking about here. I think most hunters would disagree with that practice anyway.
SFBthe industrial overharvesting of one species is hardly relatable to hunting/trophy hunting for sport and food.
I totally agree but when you look at how quickly certain species in Africa are declining its pretty ridiculous to say hunting is a conservation effort.
If the money/meat does go to the villagers, which in most cases I highly doubt, than its a humanitarian effort not wild life conservation.
_Fluffy_I totally agree but when you look at how quickly certain species in Africa are declining its pretty ridiculous to say hunting is a conservation effort.
If the money/meat does go to the villagers, which in most cases I highly doubt, than its a humanitarian effort not wild life conservation.
How do you figure that they fund parks/park rangers and conservation efforts? It's through rich people willing to spend a shit load of money. By killing one legally they can afford to save many more.
_Fluffy_If the money/meat does go to the villagers, which in most cases I highly doubt, than its a humanitarian effort not wild life conservation.
Can't something be both humanitarian and conservation?
I have a friend who has gone cape buffalo hunting a number of times and while he keeps the hide, the carcass goes to the local community and money goes to local community and conservation efforts. In his experience, this is how most hunting outfits work, but there are always outliers that make more noise and ruin it for everyone else.
onenerdykidWhile I see the point you're trying to make, it's not exactly the same as what Fluffy is talking about (who I think is definitely trying pretty hard with this thread). Was your trip solely based on acquiring the trophy and the thrill of the hunt?
Regardless, it is a bit of a stretch to say that trophy hunters are closet psychopaths. Trophy hunting is arguably dehumanizing & unethical, but that is not to say it is necessarily indicative of being a psychopath. Psychopathic tendencies on the other hand? Maybe. It's arguably an activity that hints at the more primal, barbaric traits we are capable of. As such, hunting solely for sport where there is no need to kill the animal for your own survival or to ensure the larger population is kept safe definitely echoes a passion for killing, and as such is not a characteristic befitting a being who is supposedly above and better than the animal kingdom.
I've been on those trips and yes catching the biggest fish is main reason people go. There is constant batter on the radios about how somebody is gonna catch the bigger fish and therefore is clearly better. Hell, the times I go there is almost always a contest for biggest fish.
_Fluffy_and I'm talking about trophy hunters. Some people still kill deer/fish/fowl for food believe it or not.
I think its stupid to kill animals just to mount them on a wall. If the hunter is shooting game to eat for a long time then thats perfect. Id rather have that then have them supporting the beef industry.
You clearly haven't looked into the cost of hunting, it is always more expensive when you factor in time, equipment, travel, etc
_Fluffy_I think the use of a motorized vehicle to assist in hunting anything should be banned.
I disagree only with this. I live in the Yukon in Canada and you need a motorized vehicle to hunt certain animals. You can't haul a massive bison through 4 feet of snow for a 100 kilometres and some areas are only accessible by powerboat or atv. they're often too far into the wilderness to take horses or hike. If you can get to a hunting zone by walking or horse then do that. but if you can't, use a motorized vehicle
SFBthe industrial overharvesting of one species is hardly relatable to hunting/trophy hunting for sport and food.
JAHpowKilling hundreds of whales in the name of scientific research is not even close to the hunting we're talking about here. I think most hunters would disagree with that practice anyway.
But this is just hypocritical. Look at Rhinos, Cheetahs, Elephants, the list goes on, they are all on the endangered list and yet are still hunted.
Those poor whales being killed by the Japs each year, but who gives a fuck about lions aye? The exact same bullshit that Japan spits out about scientific research is the exact same bullshit that trophy hunters spit about conservation. You can't be against Japan then be pro trophy hunting. That makes you a hypocrit.
