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S-S-KThere may be some parallels between the two topics, but it is still apples to oranges. If "Kate's Law" would have been a signed law there would have been no possible way Francisco Sanchez could have murdered anyone, because he would have been locked up. For gun control you can have the highest restrictions signed into law and you will still have shootings.
It isn't as straightforward as Law A will prevent B from happening with gun control. With illegal aliens that commit crimes, it is for the most part that straightforward...
I don't want to get into a gun control debate in this Trump thread, you probably know where I stand
Your argument is based on a causal chain of events, not negligence or immoral will, and therein lies the problem.
To say that "If Kate's Law would have been signed, she would still be alive" relies on you removing one causal event from an absurdly large amount of causal events in order to be made true. Moreover, all causal events have the same necessary value in that when you remove one causal event from the equation, the equation fails. Causal events are like a recipe - without one ingredient, your recipe (equation) falls apart. You could just as easily say "If Kate wasn't there at that time, she would still be alive" and it is just as equally true as your original statement. You could equally say "if Francisco was never born, she would still be alive". All of those are true statements, but none of them actually address the actual problem: the immoral will of Francisco Sanchez.
You can also demonstrate this idea with a car accident. Two cars collide, one runs a stop sign and unlawfully hits a car in the intersection. Causally, both cars need to be there in order for the accident to occur and without one of them the accident is avoided. BUT one car is at fault and the other is not. This is called negligence and what you look for when proving blame or guilt and how to actually solve the problem, not band-aid it.
Francisco Sanchez killed someone who was innocent and it was a terrible tragedy. But to solve the problem by saying "if Francisco wasn't allowed in the country, then Kate would still be alive" is unfortunately missing the point of the problem.
Gun Control involves almost the same exact argument, and, moreover, gun-rights activists use my above argumentation to allow guns to exist in this country: guns don't kill people, people kill people. Anti-gun people say that "well, if we don't have guns, then we can't have any more gun violence". They are making the same exact causal argument as your anti-immigration argument, which is true but also missing the point. A gun sitting alone on a table will never murder anyone, which is 100% true. It requires the immoral will of a person to do that. Good people (of their own volition) will not murder anyone, but bad people will/can and this latter group of people is the real problem of the gun debate- keeping guns out of the hands of bad people.
I'm not trying to draw a gun debate into this topic, but people should be aware of the argument they are using against immigration is the same "missing the point" fallacy used by people who want to remove guns from the country based on the argument of "if we remove it from the equation, then the problem is solved".
CampeadorYes your sources are irrelevant in relation to the argument you are trying to make. Analyzing crime by legal immigrants is entirely irrelevant to the analysis of crime by illegal immigrants.
You are weak-minded and are swayed by emotion, hence all the bleeding-heart bullshit.
Welfare use:
"Households headed by immigrants from Central America and Mexico (73 percent)"
"In 2012, 76 percent of households headed by an immigrant who had not graduated high school used one or more welfare programs"
All of your opinions are the typical, brainwashed liberal drivel. Regurgitating verbatim what your Marxist instructors say make you neither educated or intelligent.
"But I asked my Math and Economics teachers!" Thank you for giving away that you are still in high school.
If you actually read the reports it found that crime among legal and illegal immigrants was lower.
And will immigrants use welfare? Yes, they will. That's pretty obvious.
But what about big banks, they took 12.8 trillion dollars of government money so they could survive? You know the banks that were so frivolous with their lending they pretty much fucked up the entire global economy. But that bailout money was needed to keep America out of another great depression. Much like how welfare is needed so people can make a better life for themselves.
And from the sources I've already posted that shows a clear link that welfare helps people get back on their feet faster and make a better life for themselves.
But holy fuck "all of your opinions are the typical, brainwashed liberal drivel. Regurgitating verbatim what your Marxist instructors say make you neither educated or intelligent", that is the most fucking right wing paragraph I have ever read. Taking out the big guns with bringing up Karl Marx, like every cunt who is a liberal is automatically a communist. But see the thing is, I've posted studies to back up my points about welfare, crime and other shit. You haven't posted shit. You're in your own little bubble where everyone who wasn't born a rich American is beneath you, I hope to god that you get on welfare one day. That would be so ironic and hilarious.
And giving away I'm in high school. "asked" is past tense, meaning it happened in the past. BOOM MIND FUCKING BLOWN. You can believe that I'm still in high school if you wish to dismiss anything I say, if that will help your wilful ignorance. Go right away.
On Obama:
2015 - he's incompetent
2010 - he and the Democrats have done a good job, especially with the economy
On Healthcare:
2015 - the Republicans are weak in their attack on Obamacare
1999 - Liberal on healthcare, favors universal healthcare
On Taxes:
2015 - we all should pay as little as possible
1999 - favors heavy taxes on the rich to combat our national debt
On Abortion:
2015 - very pro life
1999 - very pro choice
He is a simple opportunist who will change his beliefs for a shot at being president. The only thing he truly stands for is saying whatever it takes in order to be the most powerful man in America.
This is in stark contrast to Bernie, who has not waivered on any of his positions in the last 30 years, who clearly is guided by the desire to improve people's lives.
Trump involved in fundraiser for fake Veterans group started by Joel Arends, who is currently under investigation in Arizona, and was previously involved with a fake US Senate candidate and involved in phony Super PAC scams in Texas.
onenerdykidWorth a repost and comparison with Bernie.
On Taxes:
2015 - we all should pay as little as possible
1999 - favors heavy taxes on the rich to combat our national debt
Actually if you watched the last debate the other night, he still has the same stance on taxes as he did in 1999, im not necessarily a trump supporter, but just fact checking you. Also, sanders a a socialist, not sure why anyone is giving him any support...
MattsaffActually if you watched the last debate the other night, he still has the same stance on taxes as he did in 1999, im not necessarily a trump supporter, but just fact checking you. Also, sanders a a socialist, not sure why anyone is giving him any support...
Then you obviously haven't done any research on him.
What is it about the word socialism that scares you?
MattsaffActually if you watched the last debate the other night, he still has the same stance on taxes as he did in 1999, im not necessarily a trump supporter, but just fact checking you. Also, sanders a a socialist, not sure why anyone is giving him any support...
Trump changes his mind as much as my ex girlfriend. One day "okay lets deport all muslims", today "muslims are good people"
MattsaffActually if you watched the last debate the other night, he still has the same stance on taxes as he did in 1999, im not necessarily a trump supporter, but just fact checking you. Also, sanders a a socialist, not sure why anyone is giving him any support...
If you actually watched the video I posted, you will literally hear those words come out of his mouth.
Furthermore, you need to re-read up on socialism and understand what it is and how Bernie is different from it. He's actually far closer to FDR, Truman, and Eisenhower than people are aware. If you watch the other video I posted (the one about Bernie) you would see his policies are far more level headed than any of the Republicans currently running.
SFBv420.0what is it about the words and concept of self reliant that scares you?
Your comments reminds me of this:
Other than missing a colon after the word "libertarian", I find the quote to be a fairly accurate portrayal of their mentality.
S.J.WTrump changes his mind as much as my ex girlfriend. One day "okay lets deport all muslims", today "muslims are good people"
Why are you acting like changing your opinion and not being stuck in your ways is a bad thing? Also thats a great thing to change your stance on. OO look at trump he's a little less racist. Also don't lie on NS we all know you never have a girlfriend, and You're V card is keep in your diary next to your night stand.
onenerdykidIf you actually watched the video I posted, you will literally hear those words come out of his mouth.
Furthermore, you need to re-read up on socialism and understand what it is and how Bernie is different from it. He's actually far closer to FDR, Truman, and Eisenhower than people are aware. If you watch the other video I posted (the one about Bernie) you would see his policies are far more level headed than any of the Republicans currently running.
I think socialism has turned into a scary word that people don't understand. Do people here like social security?
nocturnalWhy are you acting like changing your opinion and not being stuck in your ways is a bad thing? Also thats a great thing to change your stance on. OO look at trump he's a little less racist. Also don't lie on NS we all know you never have a girlfriend, and You're V card is keep in your diary next to your night stand.
Yeah because changing your opinion within two days is the exact same as changing your opinion over weeks after discussion about the subject...
Sick dude, bringing up virginity. What are you still in high school where that's all anyone cares about? And why are you so obsessed with my sex life? Got a little crush on me do you? Aww i'm flattered.
onenerdykidYour comments reminds me of this:
Other than missing a colon after the word "libertarian", I find the quote to be a fairly accurate portrayal of their mentality.
What does being a libertarian have to do with dependence on others? One could say the economy in general is dependent on others. USA in general is dependent on foreign productivity as a nation hell-bent purely on consumerism.
Go tell Walton to stop filling his stores with products that are made in Taiwan.
I think the joke is saying that libertarians never realize how much they (and certainly other people) rely on or benefit from the things that they decry in the name of 'personal freedom'.
A libertarian probably wouldn't subscribe to the mantra that a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. Everything in life is interconnected; a butterfly flaps its wings, right? So why would you support further independence? It's unnatural! Symbiotic growth is a beautifully natural thing.
nocturnalTo mentions of it equals obsessed? And you have to have a sex life for someone to be obsessed with it. Waiter check please
Just for argumentative purposes... Even if I didn't have a sex life. Why does it matter? Are you so shallow as a person that the only thing that matters to you is how much sex someone has? You must live a pretty miserable life if the only thing you care about is sex. I truly do feel sorry for you that you are so lonely that you need to find worth in how much sex you have.
S.J.WJust for argumentative purposes... Even if I didn't have a sex life. Why does it matter? Are you so shallow as a person that the only thing that matters to you is how much sex someone has? You must live a pretty miserable life if the only thing you care about is sex. I truly do feel sorry for you that you are so lonely that you need to find worth in how much sex you have.
That's a ridiculous thing to say I don't judge you based on your sex life, I judge you because you're stupid. Fight me m8 u wont.
I really hope Trump becomes President of those United Staties.. Just so I can have a good laugh for four years... Like when you have a bad day, all you need to do is think about the US of A and the President.. But also so the rest of the world will take you less serious..that would actually be a really good thing for the world.. Go Trump!
#littledrunk
CamembertI really hope Trump becomes President of those United Staties.. Just so I can have a good laugh for four years... Like when you have a bad day, all you need to do is think about the US of A and the President.. But also so the rest of the world will take you less serious..that would actually be a really good thing for the world.. Go Trump!
#littledrunk
You mean less serious like this?
You may need to stay drunk those four years, hopefully your liver will give out before then.
CampeadorYou may need to stay drunk those four years, hopefully your liver will give out before then.
I think you are confusing that with the Bush Jr.'s first term when he randomly invaded Iraq in a desperate response to 9/11 and consequently spurred on the largest increase in Islamic terrorism we've ever seen. Or later in his second term when his inept corporate policies contributed to the banking disaster and necessitated the largest "socialist" bailout America has ever enacted which costed every American working taxpayer $4,635. Yeah, that was awesome. Good times for sure.
You may need to stay drunk those four years, hopefully your liver will give out before then.
I'm just going to respond to these pictures one by one.
First picture. Obama has dropped more bombs on the middle east than Bush did. Also withdrawing from a country you should of never invaded in the first place does not equal surrender.
Second picture. Like I've already shown you but you refuse to accept, muslims aren't a problem. Here have another look again...
Third picture. Any person with three brain cells to rub together knows the Iran deal is a good deal. It prevented another war, saved money, and Iran can't get a nuclear weapon.
Fourth picture. HHAHA what the fuck is this shit? That is the dumbest thing I have ever seen. Oh no he bowed down to a muslim. That's called fucking respect you idiot.
You are probably the dumbest person I have ever encountered. It makes me sad that you're actually allowed to vote.
Also loved you said "apparently" like what the fuck dude, it doesn't apparently use reports of terrorism. It does use reports of terrorism within the US.
And don't forget there was no real Islamic terrorism until the US invaded the middle east. It's almost like there's a connection between war and extremism. Yeah we need to drop more bombs on the middle east, meanwhile creating more terrorists.
Terrorism was more based off of differences within the Muslim religion (Sunni vs. Shiite, Kurds vs. Muslims, Houthis vs. Muslims, etc) rather than religious differences outside of it as well. Too many people do not understand that the concept of jihad is as old as the Saudi empire. It was first used by al-Wahhab to help Ibn Saud conquer other Muslims in a way that did not violate Quranic law.
S.J.WAlso loved you said "apparently" like what the fuck dude, it doesn't apparently use reports of terrorism. It does use reports of terrorism within the US.
The best ways to destroy your pathetic arguments is one at a time.
And you failed to mention how your little graph proves absolutely nothing, like all your shitty sources. I use "apparently" because I don't know how credible the graph is (I don't consider "loonwatch" blog the most credible source). There's no way to know for sure whether the graph uses accurate FBI statistics without looking at it closely. Also, 2005 was a decade ago and I remember the islamic terrorist attacks of that year well.
CampeadorThe best ways to destroy your pathetic arguments is one at a time.
And you failed to mention how your little graph proves absolutely nothing, like all your shitty sources. I use "apparently" because I don't know how credible the graph is (I don't consider "loonwatch" blog the most credible source). There's no way to know for sure whether the graph uses accurate FBI statistics without looking at it closely. Also, 2005 was a decade ago and I remember the islamic terrorist attacks of that year well.
oh my god you are legit the most stubborn cunt on this site. I love how you dismiss my sources by calling them "shitty" even though you have failed to even provide even one source to back up your arguments. And why don't you go find fault with my source then huh? Go look at the study, look at the reports they used then come back here and admit that you are just a little paranoid shit. Taking whatever the media tells you as fact without doing your own research. And you remember the terrorist attacks of 2005? Great to see your anecdotal evidence trumps facts.
S.J.Woh my god you are legit the most stubborn cunt on this site. I love how you dismiss my sources by calling them "shitty" even though you have failed to even provide even one source to back up your arguments. And why don't you go find fault with my source then huh? Go look at the study, look at the reports they used then come back here and admit that you are just a little paranoid shit. Taking whatever the media tells you as fact without doing your own research. And you remember the terrorist attacks of 2005? Great to see your anecdotal evidence trumps facts.
I said on a global scale, Islamic terrorism is responsible for the majority of deaths. Almost all the countries on the top of the list have one thing in common, they're followers of the prophet. In terms of global terrorism, the number of islamic attacks on U.S. soil (especially in the 1980s) is entirely irrelevant. Your only source is entirely discredited.
And yes I remember because I was there in London in 2005 on the day of the bombings. I saw first-hand the results of islamic "multiculturalism".
Islam and Marxism are the two most evil political ideologies to befall mankind. The followers of each are bedfellows because you are the enemies of the Enlightenment. You are the enemies of all of Western Civilization.
CampeadorIslam and Marxism are the two most evil political ideologies to befall mankind. The followers of each are bedfellows because you are the enemies of the Enlightenment. You are the enemies of all of Western Civilization.
While I may grant you the Islam part (as I am not a fan of religion in general), you have clearly not read anything by Karl Marx, except maybe a small excerpt from the Communist Manifesto in your freshman political science course. You seem to forget that direct democracy is the end result of Marxism (any many other ideas/things that no "communist" country ever implemented obviously and avoided altogether).
Read up on his Theory of Alienation and tell me how he is wrong. FYI- you'll also have to disprove most of Aristotle's political and ethical philosophy along the way (which is also the basis for most of the Enlightenment's political theory you claim to love so much). Good luck.
CampeadorI said on a global scale, Islamic terrorism is responsible for the majority of deaths. Almost all the countries on the top of the list have one thing in common, they're followers of the prophet. In terms of global terrorism, the number of islamic attacks on U.S. soil (especially in the 1980s) is entirely irrelevant. Your only source is entirely discredited.
And yes I remember because I was there in London in 2005 on the day of the bombings. I saw first-hand the results of islamic "multiculturalism".
Islam and Marxism are the two most evil political ideologies to befall mankind. The followers of each are bedfellows because you are the enemies of the Enlightenment. You are the enemies of all of Western Civilization.
You seem to be forgetting that within the middle east it's mostly muslims killing muslims. (and that IS doesn't even own a Quran...) And America has killed more civilians than IS, Al Queda, whoever have killed Americans. But thank you for bringing up the 7/7 bombers. However, you seem to be forgetting about the IRA, they killed 1696 people over their span trying to make Ireland a republic. Or did you not hear about them because they're white? Point is, every aspect of the politics and religion have terrorists. Some receive more air time (Islam) because it can persuade people into thinking the war within the middle east is a good thing. Ever since governments learned that people don't like war (Vietnman), the media tries so hard to paint this picture of why we need to invade other countries, so people don't protest and they lose power.
And why the fuck do you keep bringing up Karl Marx? Democratic socialism isn't fucking communism you idiot. Are you so much of a close minded idiot that you can't even accept the fact that they are different?
