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.MASSHOLE.Again, you're looking at these people the same way some of them look at us, pure evil..
Islamists are pure evil. If you cannot recognize evil you will never defeat it.
"“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
Also, we perceive them as evil based on the principles of the Enlightenment. They see us as evil based on the words of a mass-murdering, illiterate pedophile from the desert.
CampeadorAnd the last resort of the flailing leftist, accusations of racism or attacks based on class.
I have no patience for people who's hearts bleed for terrorists.
Why aren't you an Islamic extremist?
The answer- you were born into an incredibly lucky, positive situation.
Terrorists by and large were nurtured into their situation through strife. I personally don't believe imposing more, blanket strife across an extremely vulnerable population will do anything but continue to breed violent groups looking for power. Unless you plan on flatout exterminating anyone and everyone at all associated with Islamic radicalism, I think social and economic help is the best route.
One of Masshole's Islamist friends, sharing his culture. Initial indications suggest the attack was because the French mother and her daughters weren't dressed appropriately (by Islamic standards).
"A 37 -year-old man from the Paris area this morning has caused a bloodbath in a holiday in southern France . In the morning he came to his cottage from where he was staying with his family , went to the house of the neighbors and began stabbing with a knife on a woman and her three daughters. French media reported that he would have found that they were "too scantily clad ."
"The incident occurred in the town of Garde- Colombe , in south-eastern France . According to French media would be between the 46 - year-old mother , the girls ( 8, 12 and 14) and the man arose a discussion on their clothing. Which would have been "too tight"
"The 37 - year-old man would be of Moroccan origin and Mohammed called"
californiagrownWhy aren't you an Islamic extremist?
The answer- you were born into an incredibly lucky, positive situation.
Terrorists by and large were nurtured into their situation through strife.
Those poor souls! They didn't want to be murderous, rapist butchers! They were just not born in a lucky, positive situation!
Give me a fucking break. You should be ashamed of yourself.
And yes, what strife the terrorists in Brussels, Paris, and Nice suffered through.
Brussels
Paris
Nice
Oh, but maybe the people of Belgium and France, besides paying for all their welfare checks, just weren't kind enough to them. Remember, the rats in Molenbeek sheltered the Brussels terrorists for weeks after the attack.
Those poor, poor muslim terrorists, my heart truly bleeds for them.
californiagrownYou surely come off as one sheltered SOB who's never been outside the bubble of privlege and wealth.
Why would you assume this about someone? That is pathetic and very insulting.
Most of us on this website are middle class but we have basically all experienced overdrawn bank accounts, working for unlivable wages, and generally not being able to afford to do things we want. That is without going further and into detail.
CampeadorYou're a weakling not to stand up for Western culture in the face of an Islamic onslaught, an onslaught that seeks to change the very way we live our lives.
Here you go, you might learn something for once.
CampeadorIslamists are pure evil. If you cannot recognize evil you will never defeat it.
"“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
Also, we perceive them as evil based on the principles of the Enlightenment. They see us as evil based on the words of a mass-murdering, illiterate pedophile from the desert.
The two are not the same.
I stand by Western culture but I am not so naive to think that it is the only option for I also understand that there are other cultures and that a mix is possible.
If you believe all Islamists are pure evil, then you yourself are no better than them.
You say we perceive them as evil based on principles of the Enlightenment, yet you are evidently lacking a core aspect of it, Reason. The Enlightenment taught European's that being an individual is allowed religious tolerance, freedom of speech, and ultimately the freedom to interpret religious texts in their own manner.
You do not believe that any Islamist, hell, any follower of Islam, should have the ability to practice their religion, speak about their religion, and interpret their religion in a way they see fit. This is not to say all aspects of the Sharia lifestyle are acceptable, but so long as they do not conflict with any laws and do not become political, there is no reason it should be seen as dangerous. But you clearly lack the ability to reason and accept the differences between those that want to politicize Islam, and those that want to be devout and faithful members of their religion.
.MASSHOLE.I stand by Western culture but I am not so naive to think that it is the only option for I also understand that there are other cultures and that a mix is possible.
CampeadorOne of Masshole's Islamist friends, sharing his culture. Initial indications suggest the attack was because the French mother and her daughters weren't dressed appropriately (by Islamic standards).
Evidently you lack the ability to comprehend (and read) the fact that imposing religious views on ANYONE is something I am against.
.MASSHOLE.You say we perceive them as evil based on principles of the Enlightenment, yet you are evidently lacking a core aspect of it, Reason. The Enlightenment taught European's that being an individual is allowed religious tolerance, freedom of speech, and ultimately the freedom to interpret religious texts in their own manner.
CampeadorThat would be against Sharia, unless of course you're stupid enough to believe their Taqiyya (which by all indications you are).
Islamists only understand the three stages of Jihad, and act accordingly.
You seemingly discount the fact that these are people too, and as such, are capable of making their own rational decisions. Evidently you're in need of your own Enlightenment.
But you keep going on your bigoted ways. Nothing will change that.
CampeadorThose poor souls! They didn't want to be murderous, rapist butchers! They were just not born in a lucky, positive situation!
Give me a fucking break. You should be ashamed of yourself.
And yes, what strife the terrorists in Brussels, Paris, and Nice suffered through.
Brussels
Paris
Nice
Oh, but maybe the people of Belgium and France, besides paying for all their welfare checks, just weren't kind enough to them. Remember, the rats in Molenbeek sheltered the Brussels terrorists for weeks after the attack.
Those poor, poor muslim terrorists, my heart truly bleeds for them.
So you actually know nothing about those attackers other than they were muslim haha. Moving somewhere as an adult doesn't mean you grew up there...
And yeah buddy, I'm sure all you've seen of cities are the nice, posh areas... slums and ghettos don't exist in your world.
PeppermillRenoWhy would you assume this about someone? That is pathetic and very insulting.
Most of us on this website are middle class but we have basically all experienced overdrawn bank accounts, working for unlivable wages, and generally not being able to afford to do things we want. That is without going further and into detail.
The fuck is wrong with you?
Was I speaking to you? But see the post above. Homeboy I was talking to thinks that there are no rough areas in those cities lol.
Tell me a more affluent bubble trait than not realizing there are ghettos in major metropolitan areas because he has only traveled to the nice areas(his words)? Haha
californiagrownSo you actually know nothing about those attackers other than they were muslim haha. Moving somewhere as an adult doesn't mean you grew up there...
Let's have a look then,
Brussels terrorists:
Ibrahim El Bakraoui: Born 9 October 1986 Brussels, Belgium
Najim Laachraoui: Born 18 May 1991 Ajdir, Morocco Raised in the Schaerbeek neighbourhood of Brussels, where he attended a Catholic high school.
Mohamed Abrini: 27 December 1984 (age 31) Sint-Agatha-Berchem, Belgium
Khalid El Bakraoui: 12 January 1989 Brussels, Belgium
Osama Krayem: c. August 1992 Malmö, Sweden
Paris terrorists:
Abdelhamid Abaaoud: 8 April 1987 Anderlecht, Belgium
Salah Abdeslam: 16 September 1989 (age 26) Brussels, Belgium
californiagrownSo you actually know nothing about those attackers other than they were muslim haha. Moving somewhere as an adult doesn't mean you grew up there...
And yeah buddy, I'm sure all you've seen of cities are the nice, posh areas... slums and ghettos don't exist in your world.
Was I speaking to you? But see the post above. Homeboy I was talking to thinks that there are no rough areas in those cities lol.
Tell me a more affluent bubble trait than not realizing there are ghettos in major metropolitan areas because he has only traveled to the nice areas(his words)? Haha
Yeah but while Nice and Brussels aren't 'major' metropolitan areas they are two of the largest cities you will find in Europe that are essentially entirely 'nice' with no real slums so to speak of.
(Marseilles has them Nice doesn't.)
Europe has been good to these people. Putting aside the fact that there are plenty of good Muslims who fit in and embrace their new surroundings and culture the bad apples and the radicalized ones have absolutely no justification for their actions or hostility towards their new homes. They are treated far better in Europe than they were wherever they came from and still hate it and want to murder innocents.
Its frightening that you don't see the other side of this and are so enthusiastic about excusing senseless killings because it fits your PC/liberal agenda.
Its a very weird dynamic. I didn't know the Boston Marathon bombers but they were from a town over from me probably only 1-2 friend groups removed. They murdered the guy who sold all the heady weed in my town from 05-10 in bulk to finance their killings in the Waltham triple homicide. Everyone thought he just snitched on the wrong person when the cops discovered the bodies with weed sprinkled on them. They probably didn't have radical parents. But they probably had some radical relatives or close friends who served as influences. Its terrifying due to the culture preaching violence and hatred in the koran and yeah normal second generation Americanized muslims are capable of committing these atrocities in the name of allah. Again its just mind boggling and terrifying. And it is a cultural problem of theirs which they have made ours.
Doubt you will give that even a second of consideration though since you have made your mind up and will defend senseless murders no matter what since it fits your manifesto.
californiagrownSo a few of the terrorists grew up in muslim ghettos in the countries where the attacks took place. Yes. And?
Or do you think the fact that some of them were born in Europe means they lived a great life without want?
For fucks sake, man.
You idiot, I just gave you all of them (except for maybe one for which I could not find information), from two of the three most recent serious terrorist attacks in Europe.
Before it was "strife", now if they grow up in anything other than an upper middle class neighborhood, then their terrorism is perfectly understandable.
PeppermillRenoThey probably didn't have radical parents. .
Have you seen the mom?
"The chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee said that he believes the mother of the Boston bombing suspects played a major role in their radicalization and that they received terror training before carrying out their attack."
"‘My boys are the best of the best,’ Mrs Tsarnaev added."
"The chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee said that he believes the mother of the Boston bombing suspects played a major role in their radicalization and that they received terror training before carrying out their attack."
"‘My boys are the best of the best,’ Mrs Tsarnaev added."
The brother of Pakistani social media celebrity Qandeel Baloch says he is “not embarrassed at all” about having drugged and strangled her to death, noting that after her accusations against an Islamic cleric led to his removal, he felt he had no choice but to stop her from continuing to “dishonor” the family.
“I am proud of what I did. I drugged her first, then I killed her,” Waseem Baloch said in his stated confession to the police. “Girls are born to stay home and follow traditions. My sister never did that.” He asserted that the murder had earned him a place “in heaven.”
CampeadorWhether every member adheres completely is irrelevant, it forms a core part of the Islamic value system, and has the danger of caring religious authority.
But this same notion is present in Christianity, and any other violent ideology for that matter. Are we going to deport Christians who believe in the Old Testament? Or KKK members who want to rid America of all non-whites? Or Satanists who want to fuck children and murder them?
All of these things (including Sharia Law) are morally despicable, morally reprehensible, and downright un-American. Yet, we allow the Westboro Baptist Church to preach death to homosexuals and doctors who provide abortions, and we allow the KKK to promote hate towards non-whites, and we allow Satanists the right to believe in their utter nonsense. All of these examples have the potential to lead to unjust human suffering. But as long as it remains a personal belief system that does not infringe upon the rights of another citizen, it's fair game. The mere belief in Sharia Law is no different. But as soon as that belief turns into action, then of course any of it should be met with justice.
No one is arguing that the belief in Sharia Law is moral, we are just arguing that it is legal, just as believing in racism or slavery or Old Testament stoning are also all legal to believe in. This is what our Constitution guarantees and protects. If that's not something you believe in that's fine, but that's not what currently exists in our country. And to change that will probably cause more bloodshed than all of these problems combined.
PeppermillRenoYeah but while Nice and Brussels aren't 'major' metropolitan areas they are two of the largest cities you will find in Europe that are essentially entirely 'nice' with no real slums so to speak of.
(Marseilles has them Nice doesn't.)
Europe has been good to these people. Putting aside the fact that there are plenty of good Muslims who fit in and embrace their new surroundings and culture the bad apples and the radicalized ones have absolutely no justification for their actions or hostility towards their new homes. They are treated far better in Europe than they were wherever they came from and still hate it and want to murder innocents.
Its frightening that you don't see the other side of this and are so enthusiastic about excusing senseless killings because it fits your PC/liberal agenda.
I never excused any killings. And yes there are hoods in nice and brussels.
I agree there are plenty of transplanted Muslims thriving in Europe, why are you so against letting similar folks immigrating to America and screening out the bad apples as you put it?
Also, bragging about knowing of a small time drug dealer makes you an expert on the marathon bombers, da fuq?
CampeadorYou idiot, I just gave you all of them (except for maybe one for which I could not find information), from two of the three most recent serious terrorist attacks in Europe.
Before it was "strife", now if they grow up in anything other than an upper middle class neighborhood, then their terrorism is perfectly understandable.
How fucking stupid are you?
Do you not know what strife means? I guess not lol.
Are you against an intensive screening process to allow refugees to immigrate to the states? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand you to be for a Muslim immigration ban.
I don't see how people don't realize the vast majority of Trump's promises are unfeasible and will never happen. His tax cuts? No way, we can't afford it. Deport 11 million people? Are you serious? Not a chance. Too expensive to round up everyone and get them out. Build the wall? Cmon. You can't seriously believe Mexico would pay for that.
This is data compiled on the amount of terrorist deaths per year in Europe. As you can see Europe has endured far worse than brussels, paris and nice. Europe will be fine, and along with the harvard study I have continually posted which shows in due time muslims do indeed share similar values as to christians we can eradicate the dangerous sect of Islam from the middle east.
But guys, he is anti-establishment, he isn't in bed with Wall Street like everyone else!!!
Oh wait...
"Donald Trump has told prospective donors that, if elected president, he plans to nominate former Goldman Sachs banker Steve Mnuchin for U.S. Treasury Secretary.
That’s according to Anthony Scaramucci, a high-profile hedge fund manager and Trump fundraiser."
This is data compiled on the amount of terrorist deaths per year in Europe. As you can see Europe has endured far worse than brussels, paris and nice. Europe will be fine, and along with the harvard study I have continually posted which shows in due time muslims do indeed share similar values as to christians we can eradicate the dangerous sect of Islam from the middle east.
Who could forget your bogus Harvard study that you parade around (probably because its the only bullshit you can find on the subject)? You mean the Harvard study that you didn't even bother read? You probably just took it from a cited Media Matters article.
The countries in Europe that have been dumb enough to accept large numbers of Muslims are facing demographic catastrophes, and emptying their treasuries to pay out welfare to large muslim families.
Your Harvard study is hard to take seriously when no other piece of evidence supports it. In fact, everything that comes out from Pew Research and other research seem to indicate quite the opposite.
One example of many:
"Only one in three British Muslims would tip off the police if they believed that somebody close to them had become involved with terrorist sympathisers, a poll has revealed."
onenerdykidBut this same notion is present in Christianity, and any other violent ideology for that matter. Are we going to deport Christians who believe in the Old Testament? Or KKK members who want to rid America of all non-whites? Or Satanists who want to fuck children and murder them?
All of these things (including Sharia Law) are morally despicable, morally reprehensible, and downright un-American. Yet, we allow the Westboro Baptist Church to preach death to homosexuals and doctors who provide abortions, and we allow the KKK to promote hate towards non-whites, and we allow Satanists the right to believe in their utter nonsense. All of these examples have the potential to lead to unjust human suffering. But as long as it remains a personal belief system that does not infringe upon the rights of another citizen, it's fair game. The mere belief in Sharia Law is no different. But as soon as that belief turns into action, then of course any of it should be met with justice.
No one is arguing that the belief in Sharia Law is moral, we are just arguing that it is legal, just as believing in racism or slavery or Old Testament stoning are also all legal to believe in. This is what our Constitution guarantees and protects. If that's not something you believe in that's fine, but that's not what currently exists in our country. And to change that will probably cause more bloodshed than all of these problems combined.
The problem with your analysis is that the numbers and the culture aren't in your favor.
How many members does the Westboro Baptist Church have? 40
The KKK, 5,000 to 8,000 members.
The number of Muslims who follow strict Sharia are in the hundreds of millions.
Now, why would you import more people with similar value systems to the Westboro church and the KKK?
The Constitution protects the rights of citizens and legal residents, not foreign Muslims, so we absolutely can reject them entry based on their system of beliefs if it is deemed contrary to public safety. Also, if the KKK were carrying out terrorist attack on the level that Muslims are currently doing, their organizations would be completely destroyed. And yet, terror mosques like the one in Boston continue to plot openly.
All Islamic terrorism is derived from Islamism and Sharia.
CampeadorThe problem with your analysis is that the numbers and the culture aren't in your favor.
How many members does the Westboro Baptist Church have? 40
The KKK, 5,000 to 8,000 members.
The number of Muslims who follow strict Sharia are in the hundreds of millions.
Now, why would you import more people with similar value systems to the Westboro church and the KKK?
The Constitution protects the rights of citizens and legal residents, not foreign Muslims, so we absolutely can reject them entry based on their system of beliefs if it is deemed contrary to public safety. Also, if the KKK were carrying out terrorist attack on the level that Muslims are currently doing, their organizations would be completely destroyed. And yet, terror mosques like the one in Boston continue to plot openly.
All Islamic terrorism is derived from Islamism and Sharia.
I just think we need to be as consistent as possible. If we deem anyone who believes in Sharia Law to be unfit for citizenship or residency, then that should be applied to anyone who truly believes in a violent ideology. But since that is just never going to happen, there needs to be line drawn- keep your beliefs to yourself and if you force them upon anyone else there will be super repercussions.
While the Westboro Baptist Church and KKK were specific examples, you know there are millions and millions of Americans who share their ideas. Violent ideas that if acted upon would (and often do) result in the same level of human suffering that acting upon Sharia Law would cause (at least from Muslim populations within the USA). Luckily, we don't see North American Muslims following/acting on Sharia Law to the same degree as Middle Eastern and Asian Muslims. They don't have the cultural safety net here that is present elsewhere and that's a huge plus for us. But I totally agree that we would need to be super diligent on who gets allowed entry, which is another bonus that the USA has over Europe at the moment.
And of course, any such group should be monitored as closely as needed. And I will be one of the first to argue that more should be done on this front.
CampeadorWho could forget your bogus Harvard study that you parade around (probably because its the only bullshit you can find on the subject)? You mean the Harvard study that you didn't even bother read? You probably just took it from a cited Media Matters article.
The countries in Europe that have been dumb enough to accept large numbers of Muslims are facing demographic catastrophes, and emptying their treasuries to pay out welfare to large muslim families.
Your Harvard study is hard to take seriously when no other piece of evidence supports it. In fact, everything that comes out from Pew Research and other research seem to indicate quite the opposite.
One example of many:
"Only one in three British Muslims would tip off the police if they believed that somebody close to them had become involved with terrorist sympathisers, a poll has revealed."
I'm not disputing that there's a sect of Islam that is dangerous. What I'm saying is that the best way to fight said sect of Islam is to show them that the middle east is a fuckload more worse than the west. And muslims in time come to see that. But according to you apparently being a professor at Harvard is bullshit? Okay there matey. I'm sure I'll trust their empirical data over your opinion poll. Which has a lot more variables. And to show those variables, here's another survey showing other groups rationalizing killing civilians. I know you're just going to ignore these polls because it goes against your anti islam/ christians are perfect agenda.
