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The Whole Gun Debate Deal

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theabortionator
Posts: 51666 - Karma: 162,558
So people post all these memes, articles, and whatever about how they need guns to protect themselves against the government and what not.

Saw one that said "I don't need a gun or want a gun, but I have a gun and if the government ever says I can't that's when I'll need a gun" or something like that. It's a nice sentiment, the old cowboy standing up to the evil lawman to take back the town kind of deal.

At the same time, when the fuck is anyone ever going stand up to the government with their guns? I'm not saying they should or shouldn't just that it's something I can't really see happening. At the same time they're bitching about how they need guns to protect their freedoms, they're voting/supporting the people who are oppressing them and stripping them of the freedoms that they supposedly need guns to protect.

If you can't even stand up to the government with a ballot, you sure as fuck aren't going to do anything constructive with your guns.

Just sayin


Sparknotes: guns are bad mmmkay
Jun 24 2015 3:53AM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,485
LonelyI need to defend my home is bullshit. You do not need a ar-15 to defend your house unless it's from a invasion. Its called an assault rifle for a reason, and any officer who has trained for urban combat, will tell you that a long rifle is horrible for close quarters (home).


An ar-15 is not an assault rifle. anti gun people started calling it that to scare clueless people
Jun 29 2015 11:15PM
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987321654hgfd
Posts: 5133 - Karma: 5,447
.Hugo.anti gun people started calling it that to scare clueless people



like how every magazine is now high capacity.

At least an assault rifle is a real thing. I love when they call them assault weapons.
Jun 29 2015 11:31PM
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S.J.W
Posts: 7609 - Karma: 31,185
.Hugo.An ar-15 is not an assault rifle. anti gun people started calling it that to scare clueless people


Still tell me why you would need an AR-15 for protection?
Jun 29 2015 11:42PM
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987321654hgfd
Posts: 5133 - Karma: 5,447
S.J.WStill tell me why you would need an AR-15 for protection?


Because it's pretty good at protecting
Jun 29 2015 11:47PM
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Lonely
Posts: 6742 - Karma: 61,668
.Hugo.An ar-15 is not an assault rifle. anti gun people started calling it that to scare clueless people


If you want to be a picky shit sure technically speaking it is not an assault rifle it's is a civilian service rifle.

Since you know so much about it you should also know that the original model was designed for the Military, and is considered the original base for the m16 assault rifle. It is also not at all difficult to modify it (again depending on state) to the point where it is.
Jun 29 2015 11:50PM
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270on420out
Posts: 7508 - Karma: 51,058
CirilloBecause it's pretty good at protecting


It's also makes killing people a lot easier
Jun 29 2015 11:50PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,176
LonelyIf you want to be a picky shit sure technically speaking it is not an assault rifle it's is a civilian service rifle.

Since you know so much about it you should also know that the original model was designed for the Military, and is considered the original base for the m16 assault rifle. It is also not at all difficult to modify it (again depending on state) to the point where it is.


Well the proper term is modern sporting rifle. Civilian service rifle is a competition term for competing alongside military personnel. You can modify any firearm just as easily as an AR.
Jun 30 2015 12:00AM
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Lonely
Posts: 6742 - Karma: 61,668
JAHpowWell the proper term is modern sporting rifle. Civilian service rifle is a competition term for competing alongside military personnel. You can modify any firearm just as easily as an AR.


I feel like it's but of a stretch to compare modifying a glock 19 to an AR. Yes you can easily modify both. The glock though is much more limited in it's mods
Jun 30 2015 12:24AM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,176
LonelyI feel like it's but of a stretch to compare modifying a glock 19 to an AR. Yes you can easily modify both. The glock though is much more limited in it's mods


What do you mean by modify though? Like change the internals to make it full auto or the way it's dressed?

If you mean the latter there are many chassis out there to sbr a pistol.
Jun 30 2015 1:12AM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
ESBWow. Frenchy's calling people morons, and he thinks that the United States has more Asians than Japan does.


LOL!!!!

seriously. it's quiet here right now, and i totally disrupted the peace with a cough / burst of laughter. thanks for that.
Jun 30 2015 2:39AM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,485
S.J.WStill tell me why you would need an AR-15 for protection?


Because it would do a damn good job of it. Why are you against ar15s? Its literally a "scary" looking hunting rifle.
LonelyIf you want to be a picky shit sure technically speaking it is not an assault rifle it's is a civilian service rifle.

Since you know so much about it you should also know that the original model was designed for the Military, and is considered the original base for the m16 assault rifle. It is also not at all difficult to modify it (again depending on state) to the point where it is.


Thats not being a picky shit, its just not being a sheep to the mainstream media by calling it an inacurrate name. Thats like calling a snowboard, skis.

Yes it can be easily modified, if youre willling to spend thousands and thousands of dollars. I would say most people dont have $15,000 laying around to buy a pre 1986 lower. And even then a private citizen cannot convert a semi auto into a full legally
Jun 30 2015 8:12AM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
.Hugo.Because it would do a damn good job of it. Why are you against ar15s? Its literally a "scary" looking hunting rifle.


I'm not against it just get a background check and don't be crazy be responsible and you can get one
Jun 30 2015 8:18AM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,485
nocturnalI'm not against it just get a background check and don't be crazy be responsible and you can get one


If you buy it at a dealer you do. plus you need to apply for a permit to purchase, at least in mn you do
Jun 30 2015 8:32AM
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Lonely
Posts: 6742 - Karma: 61,668
.Hugo.Because it would do a damn good job of it. Why are you against ar15s? Its literally a "scary" looking hunting rifle.


Thats not being a picky shit, its just not being a sheep to the mainstream media by calling it an inacurrate name. Thats like calling a snowboard, skis.

Yes it can be easily modified, if youre willling to spend thousands and thousands of dollars. I would say most people dont have $15,000 laying around to buy a pre 1986 lower. And even then a private citizen cannot convert a semi auto into a full legally


I just used the ar because it is a common weapon people know. My bad. I understand that it is more of a sporting rifle but I would still argue that you can do a lot more damage with an ar than with a pistol (still subjective depending on mods of both guns)

But anyways how does a long rifle do a better job of defending your home than a glock or a 12? I don't understand why if you have both of those you would need something that is or is close to an assault rifle?
Jun 30 2015 8:32AM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,485
LonelyI just used the ar because it is a common weapon people know. My bad. I understand that it is more of a sporting rifle but I would still argue that you can do a lot more damage with an ar than with a pistol (still subjective depending on mods of both guns)

But anyways how does a long rifle do a better job of defending your home than a glock or a 12? I don't understand why if you have both of those you would need something that is or is close to an assault rifle?


A 12 gauge probably would be better, i know id chose it over an ar. But in general an ar isnt gonna be any bigger than a shotgun, lengthwise. You also have attachments like red dot, flashlight, or even night vision scope giving you an advantage at night. Not to mention a bigger magazine
Jun 30 2015 8:42AM
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corona
Posts: 12797 - Karma: 32,757
.Hugo.Its literally a "scary" looking hunting rifle.


No it's not. It was designed and made with the sole purpose of killing humans in mind. It CAN be used as a hunting rifle, but its main purpose is for human killing. Regardless that 99% of them are only ever used for target practice. That's why people bring them up a lot, because they're probably the most common rifle in the US that was designed for killing humans.
Jun 30 2015 10:05AM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,485
VinnieFNo it's not. It was designed and made with the sole purpose of killing humans in mind. It CAN be used as a hunting rifle, but its main purpose is for human killing. Regardless that 99% of them are only ever used for target practice. That's why people bring them up a lot, because they're probably the most common rifle in the US that was designed for killing humans.


A semi auto huntung rifle will do all the same things as an ar15
Jun 30 2015 10:10AM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,485
.Hugo.A semi auto huntung rifle will do all the same things as an ar15


Except for the larger magazines i guess
Jun 30 2015 10:11AM
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corona
Posts: 12797 - Karma: 32,757
.Hugo.A semi auto huntung rifle will do all the same things as an ar15


and an M249 switched to single fire does the same thing as a hunting rifle or an AR too. Doesn't matter what it does, it's what it is designed for.
Jun 30 2015 10:25AM
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corona
Posts: 12797 - Karma: 32,757
VinnieFDoesn't matter what it does, it's what it is designed for.


.. that makes them the butt of arguments against guns.
Jun 30 2015 10:26AM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,485
VinnieFand an M249 switched to single fire does the same thing as a hunting rifle or an AR too. Doesn't matter what it does, it's what it is designed for.


Ya, but an ar15 cant be switched to full auto. At least not a legal one owned by a private citizen.
VinnieF.. that makes them the butt of arguments against guns.


They may have been designed for killing humans but they are still no more dangerous than a hunting rifle. You could even argue that a hunting rifle is more dangerous
Jun 30 2015 10:31AM
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987321654hgfd
Posts: 5133 - Karma: 5,447
VinnieFand an M249 switched to single fire does the same thing as a hunting rifle or an AR too. Doesn't matter what it does, it's what it is designed for.


Lol why are we talking about saws now? You cannot switch a 249 to semi auto anyway.
Jun 30 2015 10:59AM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
.Hugo.If you buy it at a dealer you do. plus you need to apply for a permit to purchase, at least in mn you do


Roll that out federally and I'll be happy.
Jun 30 2015 11:02AM
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987321654hgfd
Posts: 5133 - Karma: 5,447
On top of that rifles (including ARs) should be the least of anti gunner's worries.
Jun 30 2015 11:08AM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,687
VinnieFNo it's not. It was designed and made with the sole purpose of killing humans in mind. It CAN be used as a hunting rifle, but its main purpose is for human killing. Regardless that 99% of them are only ever used for target practice. That's why people bring them up a lot, because they're probably the most common rifle in the US that was designed for killing humans.


gawd, you're a bitch.

Who gives a fuck. people use them for hunting. people use 308s and 30.06 semi-auto magazine fed weapons for hunting. All of them were developed at one point or another with the primary goal of hunting two legged prey.

People like shooting the AR15 because it is modular, enjoyable to shoot, and relatively inexpensive to shoot. It is easy, and fun, to build up a rifle that is ergonomic for a specific person (not so true with other platforms). They can easily be made lighter than a combat version, take a variety of optics without modification. 5.56 and 223 ammo is also a lot cheaper and enjoyable to shoot than 308, 30.06, .270, .300, and other common hunting rounds. It also provides more feedback than a .22LR. That is why it is so popular to shoot.


IF you don't like shit that was developed with the intent to enabling the killing of motherfuckers you should probably stop using just about anything. There have been three things that have driven everything humans have done since the beginning of time: eating, fucking, and killing.

#eatfuckkill
#thatpaleolifebro
#liberaltearsfuelmyfire
#ihopeyoureoffended
#heneededkilling
#sheneededfucking
#gameneededeating
#beabrokeepgunslegal
Jun 30 2015 11:28AM
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corona
Posts: 12797 - Karma: 32,757
cobra_commandergawd, you're a bitch.

Who gives a fuck. people use them for hunting. people use 308s and 30.06 semi-auto magazine fed weapons for hunting. All of them were developed at one point or another with the primary goal of hunting two legged prey.

People like shooting the AR15 because it is modular, enjoyable to shoot, and relatively inexpensive to shoot. It is easy, and fun, to build up a rifle that is ergonomic for a specific person (not so true with other platforms). They can easily be made lighter than a combat version, take a variety of optics without modification. 5.56 and 223 ammo is also a lot cheaper and enjoyable to shoot than 308, 30.06, .270, .300, and other common hunting rounds. It also provides more feedback than a .22LR. That is why it is so popular to shoot.


IF you don't like shit that was developed with the intent to enabling the killing of motherfuckers you should probably stop using just about anything. There have been three things that have driven everything humans have done since the beginning of time: eating, fucking, and killing.

#eatfuckkill
#thatpaleolifebro
#liberaltearsfuelmyfire
#ihopeyoureoffended
#heneededkilling
#sheneededfucking
#gameneededeating
#beabrokeepgunslegal


Calm down. I in no way am saying I'm against AR's or any of their uses. I'm just pointing out the reason why they're so commonly brought up by anti-gun people. I haven't taken any side in this.

But I guess it is typical for gun totin' 'Murcan's to have the "if you're not with us you're against us" ideology.
Jun 30 2015 12:42PM
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270on420out
Posts: 7508 - Karma: 51,058
.Hugo.Because it would do a damn good job of it. Why are you against ar15s? Its literally a "scary" looking hunting rifle.


Why can't I have an automatic rifle? It would do a great job of protecting. I like how everyone love to skip over the "well regulated" part of the 2nd amendment.

And an AR15 is not a "scary-looking hunting rifle". It is a semi-automatic rifle, that can be fed by a high capacity magazine.
Jun 30 2015 12:52PM
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270on420out
Posts: 7508 - Karma: 51,058
THEDIRTYBUBBLEAnd an AR15 is not a "scary-looking hunting rifle". It is a semi-automatic rifle, that can be fed by a high capacity magazine.


Which is capable of killing multiple people at once.
Jun 30 2015 12:54PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,687
VinnieFCalm down. I in no way am saying I'm against AR's or any of their uses. I'm just pointing out the reason why they're so commonly brought up by anti-gun people. I haven't taken any side in this.

But I guess it is typical for gun totin' 'Murcan's to have the "if you're not with us you're against us" ideology.


No, they are brought up because they look similar to the current military issue rifle.
The military uses the M4 for the same reasons I listed above. Never mind that the two are fundamentally different in function (single fire, vs select fire).
Jun 30 2015 1:11PM
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987321654hgfd
Posts: 5133 - Karma: 5,447
THEDIRTYBUBBLEIt is a semi-automatic rifle, that can be fed by a high capacity magazine.


So is a ruger 10/22
Jun 30 2015 1:14PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,687
THEDIRTYBUBBLEWhich is capable of killing multiple people at once.


please explain.
Jun 30 2015 1:32PM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,485
THEDIRTYBUBBLEAnd an AR15 is not a "scary-looking hunting rifle". It is a semi-automatic rifle, that can be fed by a high capacity magazine.


Hmmm sounds quite a bit like some hunting rifles out there
THEDIRTYBUBBLEWhich is capable of killing multiple people at once.


Lol
Jun 30 2015 1:37PM
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corona
Posts: 12797 - Karma: 32,757
To clarify for both sides:

AR's are not hunting rifles. They can be used for hunting.

Hunting rifles can be semi-automatic. Hunting rifles, at least in Canada, do not and cannot legally have high capacity magazines. 22's can. In the States I'm sure they can legally be fitted with them.


Gun laws can be pretty dumb though. In Canada AR-15's are restricted. At the same time something like an XCR (which looks way more 'scary') shooting 308 is non-restricted. Then a FAL, which, if has no selective fire, is functionally the exact same as an XCR shooting the exact same round is prohibited.


Prohibited: can't own at all, even semi-automatic variants




restricted: need to have RPAL, can only shoot at a range




non-restricted: can shoot wherever the fuck you want (so long as shooting there is legal). can go hunting with it, etc. only need a PAL

Jun 30 2015 1:58PM
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corona
Posts: 12797 - Karma: 32,757
or wait.. more retardedness of Canadian gun laws!


AK-style semi-auto firing 7.62x39

Prohibited. Can't own at all.





VZ-58 semi-auto firing 7.62x39

non-restricted. can own as many as you want!





Not only do they look nearly identical, they are completely functionally the same. No difference at all. Yes, our gun laws are really dumb.
Jun 30 2015 2:06PM
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270on420out
Posts: 7508 - Karma: 51,058
cobra_commanderplease explain.


What is there to explain?
Jun 30 2015 3:40PM
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Lonely
Posts: 6742 - Karma: 61,668
.Hugo.A 12 gauge probably would be better, i know id chose it over an ar. But in general an ar isnt gonna be any bigger than a shotgun, lengthwise. You also have attachments like red dot, flashlight, or even night vision scope giving you an advantage at night. Not to mention a bigger magazine


The biggest issue is that at close quarters with buckshot you are much better off than with an ar. The ar is more difficult to hip fire, and if you have a full barrel and stock will be longer than most pump 12 gauges. With all those mods though in some states you can only have a certain amount.
Jun 30 2015 5:28PM
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S.J.W
Posts: 7609 - Karma: 31,185
If Dylan Roof friend could see he was seriously fucked up and he thought he was going to do something bad, how the fuck could Dylan still get a gun so easily? (@2:17)

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/774630/Is-The-South-Racist--We-Asked-South-Carolinians
Jun 30 2015 5:51PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,687
THEDIRTYBUBBLEWhich is capable of killing multiple people at once.


cobra_commanderplease explain.


THEDIRTYBUBBLEWhat is there to explain?


How is the AR-15 capable of killing multiple people at once? How does this make it unique among other sporting rifles?
Jun 30 2015 6:53PM
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S.J.W
Posts: 7609 - Karma: 31,185
cobra_commanderHow is the AR-15 capable of killing multiple people at once? How does this make it unique among other sporting rifles?


Because you can't put FMJ on other sporting rifles and get mad feedz with it. Seriously over powered and needs a patch
Jun 30 2015 7:08PM
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270on420out
Posts: 7508 - Karma: 51,058
cobra_commanderHow is the AR-15 capable of killing multiple people at once? How does this make it unique among other sporting rifles?


It doesn't. I was just using the AR15 as an example. These "sporting rifles" serve no purpose and should be banned.
Jun 30 2015 7:08PM
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987321654hgfd
Posts: 5133 - Karma: 5,447
S.J.WBecause you can't put FMJ on other sporting rifles and get mad feedz with it. Seriously over powered and needs a patch


You literally have no idea what you're talking about.
Jun 30 2015 7:19PM
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S.J.W
Posts: 7609 - Karma: 31,185
CirilloYou literally have no idea what you're talking about.


Yeah I do, I have a KD of 4.67 and currently at 7 perfect FFA matches. Come talk to me about guns when you got those stats. SJW out to rek nubes
Jun 30 2015 7:29PM
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.frenchy
Posts: 18221 - Karma: 12,323
S.J.WIf Dylan Roof friend could see he was seriously fucked up and he thought he was going to do something bad, how the fuck could Dylan still get a gun so easily? (@2:17)

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/774630/Is-The-South-Racist--We-Asked-South-Carolinians


omfg "ITS A GOOD OL BOY STATE"

that's awesome, every southern state is a good ol boy state, hell MOST states are. cant wait to be in a couple of good ol boy southern states in 5 days ;)
Jun 30 2015 10:05PM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,485
LonelyThe biggest issue is that at close quarters with buckshot you are much better off than with an ar. The ar is more difficult to hip fire, and if you have a full barrel and stock will be longer than most pump 12 gauges. With all those mods though in some states you can only have a certain amount.


I straight up said a 12 gauge would be better for home defense, but that doesnt mean the ar15 is bad for it. Anyone whos decent with a gun can hit a grown man from the hip in close quarters. My friends ar is shorter than my turkey gun, which has a shorter barrel than an average 12 gauge. Obviously you wouldnt have all those attachments at once... you would only be able to and need to have one of them
Jun 30 2015 10:59PM
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.frenchy
Posts: 18221 - Karma: 12,323
.Hugo.I straight up said a 12 gauge would be better for home defense, but that doesnt mean the ar15 is bad for it. Anyone whos decent with a gun can hit a grown man from the hip in close quarters. My friends ar is shorter than my turkey gun, which has a shorter barrel than an average 12 gauge. Obviously you wouldnt have all those attachments at once... you would only be able to and need to have one of them


The AR I shot yesterday was light as fuck and I could easily hip fire it if I wanted to, i'd def rather have an AR for home defense... You've gotta be delusional to think otherwise...

AR = click the trigger

MOST shotguns aren't just click the trigger and it will shoot, without having to pump or feed in another shell after your first shot
Jun 30 2015 11:03PM
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corona
Posts: 12797 - Karma: 32,757
.Hugo.I straight up said a 12 gauge would be better for home defense, but that doesnt mean the ar15 is bad for it. Anyone whos decent with a gun can hit a grown man from the hip in close quarters. My friends ar is shorter than my turkey gun, which has a shorter barrel than an average 12 gauge. Obviously you wouldnt have all those attachments at once... you would only be able to and need to have one of them


but really you don't have to worry about it at all since the chances of having a home invasion where you need to defend with a gun are about the chances of winning the lottery. But if having a gun at hand helps you sleep at night, more power to ya.
Jun 30 2015 11:07PM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,485
.frenchyThe AR I shot yesterday was light as fuck and I could easily hip fire it if I wanted to, i'd def rather have an AR for home defense... You've gotta be delusional to think otherwise...

AR = click the trigger

MOST shotguns aren't just click the trigger and it will shoot, without having to pump or feed in another shell after your first shot


Id still rather have a shotgun, cant beat the pure stopping power. My 12 gaugue with 3.5 magnum turkey loads is 100% gonna put a dude on his ass.
VinnieFbut really you don't have to worry about it at all since the chances of having a home invasion where you need to defend with a gun are about the chances of winning the lottery. But if having a gun at hand helps you sleep at night, more power to ya.


I have 2 friends that had their .45s on people that broke into their homes. In both cases the intruder immediately took off. There was also once some guy trying to get in my house. All i had to was go to the window and yell that if he took one step in my house i would blow him away and he busted ass outta there. Luckily in all 3 situations no shots had to be fired. So youre right i didnt have to use it, but they are a damn good deterrent if anything
Jun 30 2015 11:35PM
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.frenchy
Posts: 18221 - Karma: 12,323
.Hugo.Id still rather have a shotgun, cant beat the pure stopping power. My 12 gaugue with 3.5 magnum turkey loads is 100% gonna put a dude on his ass.


So would 1 round of a .223 ... Then factor in a high capacity magezine
Jun 30 2015 11:41PM
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iFlip
Posts: 4543 - Karma: 19,132
.Hugo.Id still rather have a shotgun, cant beat the pure stopping power. My 12 gaugue with 3.5 magnum turkey loads is 100% gonna put a dude on his ass.


Hey bud, if you're going to use a shotgun for home defense, how about getting some slugs for it? Your turkey loads are for...turkeys. Slugs are the traditional stopping round, used by guides in Alaska as defense against grizzlies.
Jul 1 2015 12:23AM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,485
iFlipHey bud, if you're going to use a shotgun for home defense, how about getting some slugs for it? Your turkey loads are for...turkeys. Slugs are the traditional stopping round, used by guides in Alaska as defense against grizzlies.


I do have slugs but I rarely have a choke less than a full in my shotguns. Not gonna constantly change it out during hunting season. And if you dont think that turkey load would put a man down... youre wrong
Jul 1 2015 12:43AM
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