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Two convicted murderers escape max security prison in NY

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Mingg
Posts: 13978 - Karma: 49,320
Full article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/08/nyregion/convicts-escape-prison-in-upstate-new-york.html?_r=0

"The State Police and other law enforcement agencies were hunting for two fugitive murderers on Sunday morning in the wilderness and rural communities of northern New York, a day after the two men escaped from the maximum-security state prison here.

Duping guards with dummies fashioned out of sweatshirts and using power tools to drill out of their cells, the men made their getaway late Friday or early Saturday, emerging on the other side of the prison’s 30-foot-tall walls, officials said."

This also isn't the first time one of the guys has escaped from Prison as well.
Jun 7 2015 2:00PM
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Big_Spence
Posts: 16177 - Karma: 4,352
is this not trending on every single Americans' Facebook feed?
Jun 7 2015 2:02PM
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Spagett+
Posts: 3499 - Karma: 14,884
That's pretty awesome
Jun 7 2015 2:13PM
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Big_Mtn
Posts: 551 - Karma: 1,647
Big_Spenceis this not trending on every single Americans' Facebook feed?


Not trending on mine.

Jun 7 2015 2:14PM
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Big_Spence
Posts: 16177 - Karma: 4,352
Big_MtnNot trending on mine.

i see a creepy worm thing and a pageant winner are trending for you....clearly Facebook tailors it's news based on your browser history.
Jun 7 2015 2:20PM
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yangumane
Posts: 1816 - Karma: 3,347
using power tools to drill out of their cells[/quote]

huh
Jun 7 2015 3:29PM
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Nikolaus
Posts: 863 - Karma: 995
Maybe prisoners wouldn't be so prone to escape if prison conditions weren't so awful. Prisons are supposed to be rehabilitation facilities, not hell.
Jun 7 2015 3:32PM
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Big_Mtn
Posts: 551 - Karma: 1,647
NickyToorMaybe prisoners wouldn't be so prone to escape if prison conditions weren't so awful. Prisons are supposed to be rehabilitation facilities, not hell.


Ahh yes, rehab for someone thats in there for life.
Jun 7 2015 3:35PM
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gotti
Posts: 4269 - Karma: 4,550
I feel like of all the joys in life, breaking out of prison successfully has got to be the best i can imagine
Jun 7 2015 4:23PM
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Nikolaus
Posts: 863 - Karma: 995
Big_MtnAhh yes, rehab for someone thats in there for life.


Life sentences shouldn't exist except for people like James Holmes. In Norway the max sentence is 21 years with very few exceptions and their facilities are much nicer. Norway also has a much lower crime rate, less then a third of the amount of guns the U.S. has per person, almost one tenth the murdet rate, and s much lower rape rate. The Norwegian criminal system works much better than the U.S. One.
Jun 7 2015 4:29PM
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DIX~
Posts: 4695 - Karma: 6,502
PULLI feel like of all the joys in life, breaking out of prison successfully has got to be the best i can imagine


Truth.

But seriously, power tools?


https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/772766/Dale--No-Power-Tools-
Jun 7 2015 4:30PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51674 - Karma: 162,646
I live in upstate. Def was blowing up on the book the last couple days.

Motherfuckers got power tools and shit
Jun 7 2015 5:00PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,176
NickyToorLife sentences shouldn't exist except for people like James Holmes. In Norway the max sentence is 21 years with very few exceptions and their facilities are much nicer. Norway also has a much lower crime rate, less then a third of the amount of guns the U.S. has per person, almost one tenth the murdet rate, and s much lower rape rate. The Norwegian criminal system works much better than the U.S. One.


I'm sure it is better/easier when you only have to deal with 5 million people. That's a little over half the population of NYC.

Way to compare apples to oranges.
Jun 7 2015 5:09PM
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iFlip
Posts: 4543 - Karma: 19,132
NickyToorLife sentences shouldn't exist except for people like James Holmes. In Norway the max sentence is 21 years with very few exceptions and their facilities are much nicer. Norway also has a much lower crime rate, less then a third of the amount of guns the U.S. has per person, almost one tenth the murdet rate, and s much lower rape rate. The Norwegian criminal system works much better than the U.S. One.


You fail fundamentally. Norway is a small country with a small population. There is little diversity, both ethically speaking and economically speaking. As such, the entire system can operate and work completely differently than in the US. Your arguments are wholly invalid.

You can say that you're comparing people to people, basically apples to apples. I would counter with the very different positions. For example, your apples are kept in a climate controlled room with no insects, no exposure to blight, and significantly slowed decomposition rates due to the cooled, climate controlled space. My apples are left out in the sun, in a field, with insects, mice, deer, heat, humidity, and the baking sun. My apples are going to look significantly worse and be faced with many more problems than yours, even if we take just a sample. Essentially, my apple problem rate per 100 apples is going to be 80%. Your apple problem rate per 100 apples is going to be 5%. Even though we are able to extrapolate the data and pull samples, they are not going to be representative of the larger underlying issues.

America is a melting pot of diversity. It has been built of immigrants from the world over. We have significant problems here, but we also have significant opportunities. There is no other country as diverse as the US, and Norway is quite literally the opposite. Now, get off your high horse, realize you were wrong in your attempted comparisons, and realize that while Norway may be a great place to live, that does not mean that the US is a bad place to live.
Jun 7 2015 5:21PM
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Nikolaus
Posts: 863 - Karma: 995
JAHpowI'm sure it is better/easier when you only have to deal with 5 million people. That's a little over half the population of NYC.

Way to compare apples to oranges.


If the U.S. Implemented the Norwegian prison and judicial system, it would make things easier for us.not to mention the enormous amount of money we would save by having less people in prison for shorter amounts of time. Our current prison and judicial system is much more difficult to manage as opposed to a Norwegian one.
Jun 7 2015 5:22PM
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Mr.noodle
Posts: 1361 - Karma: 4,651
Sick, I live in upstate new york
Jun 7 2015 7:08PM
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grilled_steeze
Posts: 422 - Karma: 1,448
I live about 1.5 hours south of Plattsburgh (where they escaped) and its been absolutely blowing up my news feed. This just a week after they searched my friends and his neighbors homes in a 4 hour manhunt for a hit and run suspect with 10 pounds of weed. FML
Jun 7 2015 7:33PM
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pow_pow~
Posts: 1429 - Karma: 1,804
JAHpowI'm sure it is better/easier when you only have to deal with 5 million people. That's a little over half the population of NYC.

Way to compare apples to oranges.


compare it to a little over half the crime rates of NYC then, it will come well under.
Jun 7 2015 7:56PM
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pow_pow~
Posts: 1429 - Karma: 1,804
also, they seem to have some brains in being able to get out of maximum security, it would probably be safe to assume they're over the border.
Jun 7 2015 7:58PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,176
pow_pow~compare it to a little over half the crime rates of NYC then, it will come well under.


Still comparing apples to oranges as that would not be an accurate comparison in terms of crime rate. It's a given that the denser the population the higher the crime rate. Oslo only has around 600,000 people and it's their largest city. Meanwhile NYC is the largest in the U.S. at about 8.2 million. But then there's still density and area differences. Norway was quite possibly the worst country to compare to the U.S. There's too many variables.

In my previous post I was comparing just population and implying that Norway's pop. is vastly smaller than the U.S. pop.
Jun 7 2015 8:49PM
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pow_pow~
Posts: 1429 - Karma: 1,804
JAHpowStill comparing apples to oranges as that would not be an accurate comparison in terms of crime rate. It's a given that the denser the population the higher the crime rate. Oslo only has around 600,000 people and it's their largest city. Meanwhile NYC is the largest in the U.S. at about 8.2 million. But then there's still density and area differences. Norway was quite possibly the worst country to compare to the U.S. There's too many variables.

In my previous post I was comparing just population and implying that Norway's pop. is vastly smaller than the U.S. pop.


i understand, but all northern european countries have crime rates per capita well below the rates of the u.s. regardless, there will always be too many variables to compare and the united states is too far gone down its track of incarceration for profits to even attempt to try some of the systems that are working over there.
Jun 7 2015 8:57PM
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Lemuel
Posts: 14492 - Karma: 10,630
They are definitely in Canada. I would not be surprised if these guys are never found. I can see the prison flickering across the lake from my house.
Jun 7 2015 9:07PM
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S.J.W
Posts: 7609 - Karma: 31,185
iFlipAmerica is a melting pot of diversity. It has been built of immigrants from the world over. We have significant problems here, but we also have significant opportunities. There is no other country as diverse as the US, and Norway is quite literally the opposite. Now, get off your high horse, realize you were wrong in your attempted comparisons, and realize that while Norway may be a great place to live, that does not mean that the US is a bad place to live.


crime does not come from ethnicity, it comes from low socio economic areas and other factors. Your race is not one of them. Also America is 85th with regards to ethnic diversity.
Jun 7 2015 9:11PM
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Nacho+
Posts: 3748 - Karma: 7,791
I hope they come and find you
Jun 7 2015 9:21PM
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byubound
Posts: 1636 - Karma: 9,870
How did nobody hear them drilling their way out with power tools?
Jun 8 2015 12:23PM
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Mingg
Posts: 13978 - Karma: 49,320
byuboundHow did nobody hear them drilling their way out with power tools?


There was some kind of construction going on there. So I'm assuming people thought the sounds were coming from the workers and not inmates.
Jun 8 2015 3:36PM
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statuswhitegirl
Posts: 4058 - Karma: 883
I go to school in Plattsburgh which is like 15 minutes from that jail, I've driven by that prison and it is truly insane, it has walls that are like 40 feet tall and 20 feet thick, of all the prisons in the country for an inmate to escape this is the last one I would expect someone to get out of.
Jun 8 2015 3:40PM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,485
statuswhitegirlI go to school in Plattsburgh which is like 15 minutes from that jail, I've driven by that prison and it is truly insane, it has walls that are like 40 feet tall and 20 feet thick, of all the prisons in the country for an inmate to escape this is the last one I would expect someone to get out of.


youve obviously never heard of adx or terre haute
Jun 8 2015 3:57PM
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daannnnieel
Posts: 5163 - Karma: 4,293
statuswhitegirlI go to school in Plattsburgh which is like 15 minutes from that jail, I've driven by that prison and it is truly insane, it has walls that are like 40 feet tall and 20 feet thick, of all the prisons in the country for an inmate to escape this is the last one I would expect someone to get out of.


and now it has a massive, permanent flaw.
Jun 8 2015 4:01PM
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CaptainObvious.
Posts: 5712 - Karma: 20,638
NickyToorIf the U.S. Implemented the Norwegian prison and judicial system, it would make things easier for us.not to mention the enormous amount of money we would save by having less people in prison for shorter amounts of time. Our current prison and judicial system is much more difficult to manage as opposed to a Norwegian one.


You know what else would save a whole lot of money? Execute them.
Jun 8 2015 4:06PM
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iFlip
Posts: 4543 - Karma: 19,132
CaptainObvious.You know what else would save a whole lot of money? Execute them.


Actually, it costs more to execute a man than to keep him in prison for life.
Jun 8 2015 4:08PM
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Skittle.
Posts: 2537 - Karma: 718
^not if we just shot them......
Jun 8 2015 4:11PM
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CaptainObvious.
Posts: 5712 - Karma: 20,638
iFlipActually, it costs more to execute a man than to keep him in prison for life.


I've heard that before and have a real hard time believing it.
Jun 8 2015 4:34PM
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Motes
Posts: 1840 - Karma: 90
I live in upstate NY too. Kinda crazy that they somehow got power tools into their cells, they must have some connection to a guard or something. These guys are prolly long gone by now though
Jun 8 2015 5:15PM
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.CJ.
Posts: 1509 - Karma: 3,669
CaptainObvious.I've heard that before and have a real hard time believing it.


It's a much longer and more expensive route to execute a criminal. Plus, prison for life is a greater punishment than execution.
If I had the choice of being executed or prison for life, I would rather be executed.
Jun 8 2015 6:21PM
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Mingg
Posts: 13978 - Karma: 49,320
CaptainObvious.I've heard that before and have a real hard time believing it.


It's because of a super complicated and long appeals process basically there to make sure they aren't executing an innocent person. If they executed the person as soon as they deemed them guilty in the first place then yeah, it wouldn't cost as much. However, they have this process in place to make sure these people are without a doubt guilty because obviously death is irreversible.
Jun 8 2015 7:37PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
S.J.Wcrime does not come from ethnicity, it comes from low socio economic areas and other factors. Your race is not one of them. Also America is 85th with regards to ethnic diversity.


Not inherently from ethnicity, but a city with a single ethnicity is likely to have a helluva lot less conflict than a town with multiple ethnic groups.
Jun 8 2015 7:59PM
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CaptainObvious.
Posts: 5712 - Karma: 20,638
.CJ.It's a much longer and more expensive route to execute a criminal. Plus, prison for life is a greater punishment than execution.
If I had the choice of being executed or prison for life, I would rather be executed.


MinggIt's because of a super complicated and long appeals process basically there to make sure they aren't executing an innocent person. If they executed the person as soon as they deemed them guilty in the first place then yeah, it wouldn't cost as much. However, they have this process in place to make sure these people are without a doubt guilty because obviously death is irreversible.


That makes more sense. Thanks for the info.
Jun 8 2015 10:48PM
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theBearJew
Posts: 10951 - Karma: 15,633
pow_pow~also, they seem to have some brains in being able to get out of maximum security, it would probably be safe to assume they're over the border.


For sure. If they stay together beyond canada Id be surprised. One of the guys has connections in Mexico from what the news was saying. Im sure hes headed to Mexico.

Still, how did they get power tools. The cut is so clean, they had to have help.
Jun 8 2015 10:58PM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,485
theBearJewFor sure. If they stay together beyond canada Id be surprised. One of the guys has connections in Mexico from what the news was saying. Im sure hes headed to Mexico.

Still, how did they get power tools. The cut is so clean, they had to have help.


they said there was construction going on right? id bet they either made a deal with or previously knew one of the workers
Jun 8 2015 11:09PM
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assatrailz
Posts: 324 - Karma: 745
There is a suspicion that they will come to Syracuse because they have a bunch of ties here (I live in Syracuse) so I'm bouda hide my boys out in my basement
Jun 9 2015 9:22AM
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Koochiemaine
Posts: 12 - Karma: 24
For those questioning the costs associated with the death penalty and execution John Oliver has a good piece on it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kye2oX-b39E

Cant embed srry, pleb life.
Jun 9 2015 6:53PM
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Brule.
Posts: 3921 - Karma: 6,206
They're searching for them up in Willsboro, which is in Essex County. I'm in Warren County and I'm fucked if they end up searching for them further and further south of the prison.
Jun 9 2015 7:03PM
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Brule.
Posts: 3921 - Karma: 6,206
Brule.They're searching for them up in Willsboro, which is in Essex County. I'm in Warren County and I'm fucked if they end up searching for them further and further south of the prison.


I'm fucked because that means I have to be on high alert for the prisoners.
Jun 9 2015 7:04PM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11954 - Karma: 12,298
Brule.They're searching for them up in Willsboro, which is in Essex County. I'm in Warren County and I'm fucked if they end up searching for them further and further south of the prison.


Essex county is directly across lake champlain from where I live during the summer. What if they managed to get a boat...


Lets be honest they are probably headed to Canada right now.
Jun 9 2015 7:08PM
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Brule.
Posts: 3921 - Karma: 6,206
Granite_StateEssex county is directly across lake champlain from where I live during the summer. What if they managed to get a boat...


Lets be honest they are probably headed to Canada right now.


There's a bridge across Lake Champlain in Crown Point, also there's a ferry in Ticonderoga. I highly doubt they'd utilize those resources.
Jun 9 2015 7:12PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,183
iFlipActually, it costs more to execute a man than to keep him in prison for life.


I don't believe that. In my local town (Pocatello, Idaho) I was talking to one of my county cop friends and he said its roughly $70 a day for inmates for food, facilities, paying guards, and all that crap. Buy a gun once and a $5 box of ammo when you need and get the job done. Now, I'm not saying kill all criminals but there are definitely some people who don't need to be wasting $70 a day.
Jun 9 2015 8:07PM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11954 - Karma: 12,298
Brule.There's a bridge across Lake Champlain in Crown Point, also there's a ferry in Ticonderoga. I highly doubt they'd utilize those resources.


No way thats two far south, plus no one really walks over that bridge so thed be spotted easily.
Jun 9 2015 9:19PM
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iFlip
Posts: 4543 - Karma: 19,132
.lenconI don't believe that. In my local town (Pocatello, Idaho) I was talking to one of my county cop friends and he said its roughly $70 a day for inmates for food, facilities, paying guards, and all that crap. Buy a gun once and a $5 box of ammo when you need and get the job done. Now, I'm not saying kill all criminals but there are definitely some people who don't need to be wasting $70 a day.


Ever hear of something called Google? It's pretty nifty.

"Turns out, it is cheaper to imprison killers for life than to execute them, according to a series of recent surveys. Tens of millions of dollars cheaper, politicians are learning, during a tumbling recession when nearly every state faces job cuts and massive deficits.

So an increasing number of them are considering abolishing capital punishment in favor of life imprisonment, not on principle but out of financial necessity."

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/29552692/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/execute-or-not-question-cost/#.VXfDk3nbLmI

"The death penalty is much more expensive than life without parole because the Constitution requires a long and complex judicial process for capital cases."

http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=42

Took me under a minute to find and post those.
Jun 10 2015 12:58AM
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Mingg
Posts: 13978 - Karma: 49,320
.lenconI don't believe that. In my local town (Pocatello, Idaho) I was talking to one of my county cop friends and he said its roughly $70 a day for inmates for food, facilities, paying guards, and all that crap. Buy a gun once and a $5 box of ammo when you need and get the job done. Now, I'm not saying kill all criminals but there are definitely some people who don't need to be wasting $70 a day.


Well yes, the actual execution of someone is cheaper than housing them. However the judicial process leading up to execution is where it gets expensive. They need to be sure these people are actually guilty because death can't be taken back. So there is a very complicated process that I don't know the full details of that costs a ton of money.
Jun 10 2015 1:05AM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,183
iFlipEver hear of something called Google? It's pretty nifty.

"Turns out, it is cheaper to imprison killers for life than to execute them, according to a series of recent surveys. Tens of millions of dollars cheaper, politicians are learning, during a tumbling recession when nearly every state faces job cuts and massive deficits.

So an increasing number of them are considering abolishing capital punishment in favor of life imprisonment, not on principle but out of financial necessity."

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/29552692/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/execute-or-not-question-cost/#.VXfDk3nbLmI

"The death penalty is much more expensive than life without parole because the Constitution requires a long and complex judicial process for capital cases."

http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=42

Took me under a minute to find and post those.


MinggWell yes, the actual execution of someone is cheaper than housing them. However the judicial process leading up to execution is where it gets expensive. They need to be sure these people are actually guilty because death can't be taken back. So there is a very complicated process that I don't know the full details of that costs a ton of money.


Thanks Ming, your post explained it nicely.

So it depends on execution too then, and you still have to disregard the judicial process I guess. But if you did firing squad that is much cheaper than keeping an inmate in a cell for a month. Maybe if we skipped the whole judicialy process that last months and realized people are killers we wouldn't spend so much money. I mean that dude who shot everyone in Colorado at the movie theater in batman is still on trial. That was like 5 years ago
Jun 10 2015 10:59AM
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