Transphobia; Reflection of Society (Woman in Trans draws angry, violent mob)

TurkeltonTransgender-ism is a mental disorder. Is it not more possible that rather than your large, multifunctioning, healthy body being out of sync with your mind, it is the little 5kg organ in your skull that something is going wrong?
It is the only mental disorder that we allow people to harm themseleves. Cut off your penis or breasts? SURE GO AHEAD BUD but Depression? NO DON'T CUT YOURSELF THAT'S A DISORDER BUT BEING TRANS IS PERFECTLY NORMAL.

https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2012/11/21/what-many-transgender-activists-dont-want-you-to-know-and-why-you-should-know-it-anyway/

Yes, you only have one life to live, live it. But maybe don't mutilate yourself and have "buyers guilt" when you're 40

UglyboyLet's for argumentative sake say being Trans is a mental disorder and a man gets implants and a vagina etc, etc. How is it harming ones self to be who you truly believe you are? You can't compare Trans to depression. They're completely different mental disorders.

Okay and being trans isn't a mental disorder http://www.takepart.com/article/2014/09/04/american-scientists-world-homosexuality

It's only a medical myth that there's a chemical imbalance in the brain.

Now onto your third point. Have you ever met a trans person who's had buyers remorse after having a sex change? What's so bad about being who you want to be?

californiagrownIts an interesting very logical argument. And yes I have met a man and a woman who both regret doing the hormones and surgery. I've also met many more who are much happier post sex change. ( I lived in the Castro of SF for a few years).

That said, you should be able to do whatever you want to yourself.

UglyboyOkay, for devils advocate, let's say homosexuality and trans is a mental disorder. Does it really matter? We can't refer to people with down syndrome as retards so why do we need to remind people who are gay and trans that they're not normal. It's hard enough to come to terms with being gay and trans then to have someone on top of that go "hahaha you're not normal, you have a mental disorder" is just really not needed. You live in San Fran so I'm going to assume you've met heaps of people with stories about discrimination in terms to their gender and sexuality.

californiagrownMental retardation is a medical term still currently taught and in use. If you have mental retardation you are in fact, retarded.

Trans folks aren't normal. Do you not know what normal means? Who the fuck wants to be normal anyways? Probly only teenagers. And how are we reminding them they aren't normal? I thought we were discussing an interesting hypothesis concerning how the brain has a disconnect regarding the body's gender? Do you not know the difference between intellectual discussion and insult hurling on the street?

UglyboyI was referring to everyday society and not the medical community. Off course the medical community can use the term retard because it doesn't have negative connotations within their community.

But to your normal point, with people like Turkleton saying they're not "normal" is reminding them they're different. Yeah you can say "well what is normal" all you want but at the end of the day, the straight and cisgender are the majority and will always be "normal".

But yes,we are discussing the hypothesis if being gay or trans is a mental disorder. My point is that even if it is true, do we need to remind them? Like I've said you can't refer to a person with down syndrome as a retard because it's hurtful.

However, being gay or trans isn't a birth defect. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/06/biological_basis_for_homosexuality_the_fraternal_birth_order_explanation.html

californiagrownWho is reminding them? Its an interesting thought that we condone and encourage self mutilation within a population that is mentally Ill.

Why arent skinny girls born into a fat girls body given the same support? Instead they are told to love the body they have.

And retardation has a negative connotation for a reason. Should we also takeout birth defect from our lexicon? Handicapped? Bipolar? Fat? All conditions with rightfully negative connotations. They are accurate descriptions.

UglyboyWell the mutation is so they can feel like themselves. We also cut peoples legs off if they have an infection. We do absurd amount of things to the body, including plastic surgery which you could look at is the exact same thing. "I wasn't given big enough boobs so I'm going to get bigger boobs". It allows someone to feel comfortable within their skin.

Just look at this thread, turkleton said they have a mental disease. SFB did the exact same thing on the deleted bruce jenner thread. I don't think either Turkleton or SFB meant it in hurtful way. But just like a white person saying "nigger" it can have negative effect on the LGTB community.

Also to your fat point. Yes, some people are fast metabolisms and some people have slow metabolisms. Except being fat is dangerous to your health and can be curved with exercise and eating properly.

And to your last point. There's a difference between a medical professional using terms and your religious uncle using the terms to actively discriminate and justify his hatred.

californiagrownWho is reminding them? Its an interesting thought that we condone and encourage self mutilation within a population that is mentally Ill.

Why arent skinny girls born into a fat girls body given the same support? Instead they are told to love the body they have.

And retardation has a negative connotation for a reason. Should we also takeout birth defect from our lexicon? Handicapped? Bipolar? Fat? All conditions with rightfully negative connotations. They are accurate descriptions.

californiagrownThe body is a vessel. To change ones appearance is purely changing ones appearance. You are what you are and that won't change regardless of your outward appearance.

To change your appearance unless you are objectively horribly disfigured is elective surgery in my mind, period. I don't see the difference between a dumb blonde getting DDs, and a tranny getting his D turned into a V. Both feel better about themselves after the surgery, neither was remotely medically needed.

Why do you refuse to engage in a discussion? Do you disagree with the assertion that it is a mental defect?

mirozYour point about skinny girls in fat bodies is interesting but no so relevant because that can be changed through lifestyle, as you would know.

And ugly, you're missing the point about using the word "retarded." It's a problem not in its overall use but because kids use it as an insult to point out bad things, eg "you're retarded." Same thing goes for using "you're gay" as an insult. Gay and retarded as words themselves are fair game but using them as insults is no good.

UglyboyBut shouldn't a person always feel happy about themselves? A person doesn't need to buy a ferrari. They buy one for happiness and the thrill of driving.

A person should have the right to feel happy about them selves. Whether that's through tattoo's, implants or a sex change.

And where did I ever refuse to partake in a discussion. I'm rebuttalling your posts and your'e doing the same to mine. And no I don't think it's a mental disorder. There's scientific hypothesis's regarding it. But even if it was, it's hurtful to remind someone of that.

Let's look at red heads. Technically speaking it's a mutation, but they're accepted in society. Religious folk don't say "god condemns red heads". But religious people love spurting that being gay or trans is a mental disease. Even though there is no scientific evidence only hypothesis regarding a "gay gene".

californiagrownRed heads are the butt of mean spirited jokes that are accepted by society as funny. Not fair, but accepted.

The brain does not agree with the body in the case of a trans. It does not recognize the body as its own. What are the scientific hypothesis regarding why people become transgender? You haven't made any arguments, you've just said there are other ideas put there... What are they?

Uglyboyhttp://healthland.time.com/2012/12/13/new-insight-into-the-epigenetic-roots-of-homosexuality/

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/06/biological_basis_for_homosexuality_the_fraternal_birth_order_explanation.html

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/33

californiagrownCliffnotrs about the origins/cause of being transgender would be great. Otherwise, again, you aren't contributing to the discussion. You are citing sources from an argument you never made.

UglyboyMy original point was even if trans and gay were in fact mental diseases why do we need to remind them? Or use it against them

californiagrownNo. Do you think it is one?

UglyboyNo, I don't think being gay or trans is a mental disorder. Until there is hard scientific proof.

californiagrownSo what is your hypothesis, how they come to be? That's what the discussion was about.

Uglyboythe discussion was never about how you come to be trans or gay. It was about if being gay or trans was a mental disease why it doesn't matter.

And I'm not a scientists, so I don't have an explanation for how someone comes to be gay. Do we have an explanation for how straight come to be? No, it's just assumed that evolution caused people to be straight for the purposes of reproduction. But some people don't want kids, or they can't have kids. Does that make them mentally ill?

californiagrownStraight came to be because it is a trait necessary for the survival of our species. Its a basic reproductive trait. To not have kids is a choice. Gay/trans is not a choice. Disease is not a choice.

I guess the question to you would be, why do you not believe being trans is not a mental disease? Its ridiculous how adamant you are about avoiding this basic question haha.

Lemme guess you are gonna say " why does it matter, why should we remind them". Its a fucking curious discussion, based on trying understand why. Jesus christ. Are you a brain dead dolt who doesn't care about understanding why things are?

Uglyboyno I've told you I don't think being trans or gay is a mental disease. I said it in one of my first posts on this thread.

californiagrownHahahaha you are one dense cokkie, huh?

Been said many times before... Why?


I guess you have no use for reasoning in this world. Must be a hard way to go through life- too scared to ask the question why?

TurkeltonNO DON'T CUT YOURSELF THAT'S A DISORDER BUT BEING TRANS IS PERFECTLY NORMAL.

UglyboyWhat the fuck? You're pulling shit out of your ass mate. I said I don't think being gay or trans is a mental diseasee and you spurl this shit. There is no logical rebuttal in your response. Been said many times???? What? And what question am I meant to be asking?

Troy.As part of the content team and having the purple name, you become a representative of Newschoolers of sorts. You're currently a horrible representative of this amazing site. That (along with your entire post) is one of the most ignorant things I have read on this website in a really, really long time.

I genuinely hope that at some point in time you realize how fucked what you said is, and you feel terrible about it. But, more than that, I hope you learn how to accept people for who they are.

Troy.As part of the content team and having the purple name, you become a representative of Newschoolers of sorts. You're currently a horrible representative of this amazing site. That (along with your entire post) is one of the most ignorant things I have read on this website in a really, really long time.

I genuinely hope that at some point in time you realize how fucked what you said is, and you feel terrible about it. But, more than that, I hope you learn how to accept people for who they are.

Lord_Byronweather you like it or not, he's right. Does it make the mutilation wrong? No. Not in my opinion. But as a society we are encouraging sever self mutilation. Like implants. And i understand where turk is coming from, he's not mad at transexuals for being trans, he's complaining about our societies eagerness to accept such an obvious double standard.

californiagrownYeah different viewpoints suck. We shouldn't allow them.

Troy.If that's how he meant it, it sure as hell didn't come across like that. The all caps "BUT TRANS IS PERFECTLY NORMAL" is bluntly stating that being transgendered is unacceptable, and something to be ashamed of, which isn't true at all. Maybe not "normal", but skiing isn't normal, nor is the internet.

Fred_Beardidnt even make it a minute. that editing was annoying as fuck

Troy.If that's how he meant it, it sure as hell didn't come across like that. The all caps "BUT TRANS IS PERFECTLY NORMAL" is bluntly stating that being transgendered is unacceptable, and something to be ashamed of, which isn't true at all. Maybe not "normal", but skiing isn't normal, nor is the internet.

mirozAgreed.

At least he didn't call it a disease or illness. Being transgender in and of itself is not a disorder, but a prerequisite of being transgender is a condition called dysphoria, which is a disorder. "Being transexual is the result of the body not matching up to how the brain perceives it to be, as opposed to how someone feels they should 'act'. In a world where genders aren't a thing, and boys can wear dresses and girls can act macho and that wasn't seen as 'weird', gender dysphoria would still be a thing."

Saying "It is the only mental disorder that we allow people to harm themseleves" is not entirely accurate, because the use of the word harm is incorrect here. Undergoing professional treatment, whatever it may be, to correct transgenderism is not harm; it's the only way we can help these people live a full and free life. Comparing that to mutilation - "an act of physical injury that degrades the appearance or function of any living body" - and the physical acts done by the severely depressed is also not accurate. The use of these words is not appropriate in this situation.

While it may be true that the issue is one of the brain, not the body (i.e. the body is perfectly healthy, by medical standards), the brain is the one that defines who you are. You ARE your brain. It just lives in the body you grew.

Troy.If that's how he meant it, it sure as hell didn't come across like that. The all caps "BUT TRANS IS PERFECTLY NORMAL" is bluntly stating that being transgendered is unacceptable, and something to be ashamed of, which isn't true at all. Maybe not "normal", but skiing isn't normal, nor is the internet.

Spagett+This thread is gay