Member of the Month

KilaTsunami
October, 2024

Online

Welcome to the Newschoolers forums! You may read the forums as a guest, however you must be a registered member to post. Register to become a member today!

Minimum wage increase for low wage workers.

profile picture
Mingg
Posts: 13978 - Karma: 49,320
Low wage workers will participate in a nationwide strike on April 15, and they'll be asking Americans to support their efforts to push Congress to increase the federal minimum wage to $15.

According to the organizing group, the Fight for 15, the strike will include fast food employees, retail employees, child care workers, home care providers, and airport workers. Notably, the strike is expected to include Wal-Mart workers in addition to McDonald's workers, who helped drive a similar strike of fast food employees last December. There will be rallies in multiple U.S. cities, including New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago, and the organizers expect as many as 60,000 people to participate in 200 locations. They are also pushing the movement beyond U.S. borders and confirmed that there will be action from workers in Italy.

Momentum is growing to increase wages.

Retail stores such as Wal-Mart and Target have announced increases in their companies' minimum wage, although the new $10 minimums are well short of $15 per hour. Other retailers, such as the Container Store and Costco, have stood out by paying workers well above minimum wage and even providing benefits in some cases.

At McDonald's, the average worker makes just $9 per hour, and more than half of McDonald's workers receive some kind of government assistance.

"It's very hard to live on this salary," said McDonald's worker Jemere Calhoun, 30, in an interview with ATTN: in December. "You pretty much know that you start in the red. As soon as I get my check, I already know that it's not enough. So I have to take care of what's the most pressing matter at that time and then think of ways to fill that financial void."

So far, though, McDonald's has not indicated any willingness to increase pay.

“These events have not been ‘strikes,’ but organized rallies designed to garner media attention for which demonstrators are transported to various locations,” Heidi Barker Sa Shekhem, a McDonald’s spokeswoman, told the New York Times. “Historically, very few McDonald’s employees have participated in these organized events.”

...
http://www.attn.com/stories/1342/fight-15-strike

What do you think NS?
Apr 15 2015 10:21PM
307 159
profile picture
SKI.ING
Posts: 2695 - Karma: 2,535
.Hugo.Yes but $15 is a severe over correction


Ditto on this sentiment. $10 seems fair to me with how expensive housing has gotten in most states. But over reaching and being greedy to get $15 is ridiculous.
Apr 16 2015 2:33PM
0 0
profile picture
LightSyde
Posts: 104 - Karma: 169
If everyone has more money, the value of the dollar will decrease. It's quite an economic shift of you think about it.
Apr 16 2015 2:35PM
2 0
profile picture
Steezy_IN_KC
Posts: 2033 - Karma: 1,607
Here: http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/fast-food-workers-you-dont-deserve-15-an-hour-to-flip-burgers-and-thats-ok/
This is a wonderful article explaining what $15/hr. looks like.
Apr 16 2015 2:37PM
3 1
profile picture
OP_has_Aids
Posts: 183 - Karma: 837
If you work at McDonalds, or a fast food place, and you're complaining about how low wage your job is. Get a better job. Quit sitting around and complaining.
Apr 16 2015 2:42PM
0 0
profile picture
Mr.noodle
Posts: 1361 - Karma: 4,651
That's terrible. 15$ an hour is way too much for and then if they get their 15$ an hour 1/2 of the workers will probably end up getting fired because that's like the wage of almost 2 workers
Apr 16 2015 3:00PM
1 0
profile picture
cool_name
Posts: 4295 - Karma: 3,131
The problem isn't a low minium wage, it is that people are trying to support a family on a safely meant for a highschooler
Apr 16 2015 6:29PM
0 0
profile picture
qazwsxedc34
Posts: 2955 - Karma: 2,141
cornholiofuck people who live beyond their means and "can't get by" on their jobs at mcdonalds. $15 is ridiculous


Everyone wants things now, so many things, that they just don’t need. We have this ardent consumerism driven society.

Get rid of cable, stop buying bottled water, if you have a cellphone cut your phone line, ditch paper, buy less food, find things for free, stop shopping if you can’t pay cash for it.

Also, if you have space in your yard grow some vegetables, make a garden!

It’s surprising how easy you can live on only the necessities, the more things you have, the more things you are going to want and the more suffering you are going to have.
Apr 16 2015 6:53PM
5 0
profile picture
LightSyde
Posts: 104 - Karma: 169
Let me explain one of my points that I was thinking about and haven't really seen pop up.

If everyone has more money, that decreases the value of a dollar (I said that previously). This kind of works like supply and demand. If people have more money then they can pay more for the same services. If there was only $10 in our worldwide economy, and I had $1, I'd be uber rich. Now, what if the government was required to give everyone 10¢ a day. (I know, this would not be okay in a real economic setting.) That decreases the value of my dollar, and also decreases the value of a cent, because everyone has it. If a day's worth of food costed 10¢ before the daily wage increase, it was set for the oppressed class who can't afford it as often as others (such as upper and middle class). Keep in mind that 10¢ is a very high price for every person on earth. Now if everyone has at least 10¢, then everyone can buy their food. But supply is short, so the person selling food is forced to raise their prices.

Now we're back where we started, a gap between necessity and what people can pay for it. Well, except for the unhappy upper and middle class, who now have less money, because for every $1 they own it is now worth 90¢.

A little hard to understand, I know, but take an economics class. You can really learn a lot.

Also, I'd like to comment on something I saw in a news article. If you're living in a big city trying to live off of minimum wage, you need to relocate. If you move to seattle and plan to work and McDonalds for the rest of your life, then there's something not right in your mind. Relocating is hard (and expensive sometimes), but studies have shown that living costs are significantly lower in outskirts of cities.
Apr 16 2015 6:55PM
1 1
profile picture
caucasian_chad
Posts: 4078 - Karma: 3,625
JAHpowCouldn't this all be avoided if the government lowered taxes? Everyone would win.


People making minimum wage don't pay much in taxes anyways.
Apr 16 2015 7:34PM
0 0
profile picture
madchronic
Posts: 460 - Karma: 324
g-daddyIf you work at McDonalds, or a fast food place, and you're complaining about how low wage your job is. Get a better job. Quit sitting around and complaining.

exactly
Apr 16 2015 7:46PM
0 0
profile picture
~~~~~~~~
Posts: 2345 - Karma: 2,104
Damn, there sure are a lot of economists on Newschoolers.
Apr 16 2015 7:47PM
5 0
profile picture
Ghoster
Posts: 261 - Karma: 1,871
integralmgmtI also assume that by raising the minimum wage to around $12/hour we would see more Americans going to work - men and women who currently rely on government assistance would see incentive to finding a job.


Shouldn't not being a lazy worthless burden to society be enough incentive?
Apr 16 2015 7:58PM
4 0
profile picture
Mingg
Posts: 13978 - Karma: 49,320
LightSydeIf everyone has more money, the value of the dollar will decrease. It's quite an economic shift of you think about it.


No.

The value of the dollar decreases when there is more money in circulation. This is determined by the fed.

There would still be roughly the same amount of money in circulation it would just be distributed differently.
Apr 16 2015 8:01PM
3 14
profile picture
Ghoster
Posts: 261 - Karma: 1,871
MinggNo.

The value of the dollar decreases when there is more money in circulation. This is determined by the fed.

There would still be roughly the same amount of money in circulation it would just be distributed differently.


If they didn't increase the amount of money in circulation, half of the employees would get a doubled pay, and the other half would be jobless. $15 an hour is ridiculous.
Apr 16 2015 8:08PM
3 1
profile picture
cornholio
Posts: 3952 - Karma: 3,057
MinggNo.

The value of the dollar decreases when there is more money in circulation. This is determined by the fed.

There would still be roughly the same amount of money in circulation it would just be distributed differently.


for their to be the "same amount of money in circulation just distributed differently" you're either going to have to give enough people a paycut to match what all these bozos make with this minimum wage increase or cut half of the jobs that just doubled in pay. i think those two scenarios are further from reality than what that guy proposed
Apr 16 2015 8:20PM
5 0
profile picture
LightSyde
Posts: 104 - Karma: 169
MinggNo.

The value of the dollar decreases when there is more money in circulation. This is determined by the fed.

There would still be roughly the same amount of money in circulation it would just be distributed differently.

Oh shit I was looking at it wrong. Whoops lmao
Apr 16 2015 8:21PM
0 4
profile picture
milk_man
Posts: 5252 - Karma: 5,980
Bye-bye dollar menu


Buhbye Walmart
Apr 16 2015 8:26PM
0 5
profile picture
saskskier
Posts: 4774 - Karma: 10,005
GhosterShouldn't not being a lazy worthless burden to society be enough incentive?


So people such as refugees, immigrants who don't yet speak good enough english for better jobs, folks with physical or mental health issues and so on are all lazy, worthless burdens to society?

I'm not saying doubling the minimum wage (or however much they want to raise it) is necessarily the best option, but there are a million legitimate reasons for people to be working minimum wage jobs that don't have anything o do with being lazy, useless or unmotivated.
Apr 16 2015 8:56PM
2 1
profile picture
Ghoster
Posts: 261 - Karma: 1,871
saskskierSo people such as refugees, immigrants who don't yet speak good enough english for better jobs, folks with physical or mental health issues and so on are all lazy, worthless burdens to society?


If you read it in context I was talking about the people who need incentive to get minimum wage jobs instead of not working at all, not people who are working.
Apr 16 2015 9:22PM
3 0
profile picture
johnnyBuz
Posts: 1438 - Karma: 1,270
MinggNo.

The value of the dollar decreases when there is more money in circulation. This is determined by the fed.

There would still be roughly the same amount of money in circulation it would just be distributed differently.


I don't know why you got down voted for this cuz you are right. If the government mandates $15 an hour minimum wage - that will come out of the corporation's cash, meaning their profits will be less and likely lead to job cuts or price hikes.

But the money supply would remain the same since the government isn't paying the $15/hr as an entitlement payment.
Apr 16 2015 9:31PM
3 6
profile picture
Mingg
Posts: 13978 - Karma: 49,320
johnnyBuzI don't know why you got down voted for this cuz you are right. If the government mandates $15 an hour minimum wage - that will come out of the corporation's cash, meaning their profits will be less and likely lead to job cuts or price hikes.

But the money supply would remain the same since the government isn't paying the $15/hr as an entitlement payment.


I mean it is possible the fed decides to increase the money supply and then yes, the value of the dollar will decrease. But increasing minimum wage does not directly effect the money supply or value of the dollar.
Apr 16 2015 9:36PM
1 11
profile picture
remove
Posts: 2566 - Karma: 1,026
Seems like most the people in this thread don't understand the basic concept of inflation.
Apr 16 2015 9:43PM
11 2
profile picture
johnnyBuz
Posts: 1438 - Karma: 1,270
HumpsSeems like most the people in this thread don't understand the basic concept of inflation.


Enlighten us braj.
Apr 16 2015 9:58PM
2 3
profile picture
gengar.
Posts: 1042 - Karma: 1,641
HumpsSeems like most the people in this thread don't understand the basic concept of inflation.


.
Apr 16 2015 10:00PM
9 0
profile picture
remove
Posts: 2566 - Karma: 1,026
johnnyBuzEnlighten us braj.


Inflation is pretty much how the general price of goods and services is compared to the value of a dollar (average cost of living). both raise at different rates but mostly keep in check with each other.
A safe rate of inflation a year is 2-3%.

Something like raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour would cause an imbalance in this ratio and cause prices to raise rapidly to compensate for the influx of money.
Apr 16 2015 10:16PM
6 2
profile picture
johnnyBuz
Posts: 1438 - Karma: 1,270
HumpsInflation is pretty much how the general price of goods and services is compared to the value of a dollar (average cost of living). both raise at different rates but mostly keep in check with each other.
A safe rate of inflation a year is 2-3%.

Something like raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour would cause an imbalance in this ratio and cause prices to raise rapidly to compensate for the influx of money.


There is no influx of money. That's the point. The minimum wage going up has no impact on the money supply circulating in the country.

If the minimum wage goes up, profit margins will decline because companies can't simply raise their prices by an equal amount as consumers won't pay. The more likely scenario is a combination of cost cutting and layoffs, leading to higher unemployment for low-skilled labor, and minor price increases.

Inflation means the average price of a basket of goods has increased, generally due to an increase in money supply. If the government doesn't increase the money supply, which they won't - because that would defeat the whole purpose of raising the minimum wage - than inflation is likely to be minimal.
Apr 16 2015 10:35PM
2 2
profile picture
remove
Posts: 2566 - Karma: 1,026
johnnyBuzThere is no influx of money. That's the point. The minimum wage going up has no impact on the money supply circulating in the country.

If the minimum wage goes up, profit margins will decline because companies can't simply raise their prices by an equal amount as consumers won't pay. The more likely scenario is a combination of cost cutting and layoffs, leading to higher unemployment for low-skilled labor, and minor price increases.

Inflation means the average price of a basket of goods has increased, generally due to an increase in money supply. If the government doesn't increase the money supply, which they won't - because that would defeat the whole purpose of raising the minimum wage - than inflation is likely to be minimal.


Supply and demand. More money to spend on goods and more money being spent on goods leads to an increase in price. Any economics course can teach you that. More people with more money demanding more goods and services will increase the price of the good and service to drive up the profit margin.
Apr 16 2015 10:42PM
3 1
profile picture
ANDR01D
Posts: 1181 - Karma: 3,319
johnnyBuzThe more likely scenario is a combination of cost cutting and layoffs, leading to higher unemployment for low-skilled labor, and minor price increases.


Close. The most likely scenario is that they cut both low-skilled and skilled labor so they still have enough grunts. They will also likely freeze raises for skilled labor for a period of time.

Basically: When those below the poverty line are aided, middle-class gets fucked, and upper class stays the same.
Apr 16 2015 10:43PM
3 0
profile picture
remove
Posts: 2566 - Karma: 1,026
HumpsSupply and demand. More money to spend on goods and more money being spent on goods leads to an increase in price. Any economics course can teach you that. More people with more money demanding more goods and services will increase the price of the good and service to drive up the profit margin.


to back up my point

Apr 16 2015 10:44PM
0 0
profile picture
johnnyBuz
Posts: 1438 - Karma: 1,270
HumpsSupply and demand. More money to spend on goods and more money being spent on goods leads to an increase in price. Any economics course can teach you that. More people with more money demanding more goods and services will increase the price of the good and service to drive up the profit margin.


Exactly - supply and demand. Demand for unskilled dumbasses declines and demand for skilled labor capable of replacing 2-3 people earning $7.50/hr increases.

There isn't "more money" to spend. The money is simply redistributed to a smaller percentage of people which will fuck over the lower class even worse. The only reason they have minimum wage jobs is because nobody else wants them.

As soon as minimum wage fast food jobs go up to $15/hr they will begin to attract a higher talent pool of motivated employees (college graduates who can't get a job in their desired field) who can work their way up by being efficient and productive.

A tangential side effect may possibly be that government entitlement payments to those in poverty increases, which means the money supply has to increase, but that would be an unintended consequence rather than the result. Correlation does not equal causation.
Apr 16 2015 10:51PM
1 2
profile picture
Swaggy_P
Posts: 130 - Karma: 361
This is why I love Newschoolers. I have a 10 page paper on minimum wage due Monday and their just happens to be a thread about it.
Apr 16 2015 10:57PM
2 1
profile picture
remove
Posts: 2566 - Karma: 1,026
johnnyBuzExactly - supply and demand. Demand for unskilled dumbasses declines and demand for skilled labor capable of replacing 2-3 people earning $7.50/hr increases.

There isn't "more money" to spend. The money is simply redistributed to a smaller percentage of people which will fuck over the lower class even worse. The only reason they have minimum wage jobs is because nobody else wants them.

As soon as minimum wage fast food jobs go up to $15/hr they will begin to attract a higher talent pool of motivated employees (college graduates who can't get a job in their desired field) who can work their way up by being efficient and productive.

A tangential side effect may possibly be that government entitlement payments to those in poverty increases, which means the money supply has to increase, but that would be an unintended consequence rather than the result. Correlation does not equal causation.


You think McDonalds is going to be the next place for college kids that can't find a job? I'll take my correlation over your speculation any day of the week.

The jobs still need to be done and won't disappear. Historically wages will increase across the board and so will prices. It will cause an inflation spike just like it did when the minimum wage jumped $.50 in 07.
Apr 16 2015 11:00PM
2 1
profile picture
Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
$15 per hour?

That's like saying "I exist, so I'm entitled to a good living."

Next you'll be telling me no more participation ribbons in sports for coming last, everyone gets a TROPHY!!

How about you contribute, and get something for it, like the rest of the planet!
Apr 16 2015 11:05PM
4 0
profile picture
johnnyBuz
Posts: 1438 - Karma: 1,270
HumpsYou think McDonalds is going to be the next place for college kids that can't find a job? I'll take my correlation over your speculation any day of the week.

The jobs still need to be done and won't disappear. Historically wages will increase across the board and so will prices. It will cause an inflation spike just like it did when the minimum wage jumped $.50 in 07.


Lol. Gotta learn your history bud. Yes - considering there is a lack of full-time jobs for college graduates who are working temp jobs, $15/hr would attract those types to fast food jobs with the expectation you can work your way up to manager, corporate, etc.

Furthermore, inflation in 2007 was not driven by an increase in the minimum wage, it was driven by a red hot economy that was creating bubbles in the stock market, housing market and commodity market driven by easy credit. Inflation is demand driven which is why it's always highest at the peak of a business cycle.

When credit dried up the economy went bust. The lol 50 cent increase in minimum wage had no effect on any of that.

Artificially doubling the minimum wage would result in huge market inefficiencies, reduce demand, and quite possibly lead to deflation.
Apr 16 2015 11:14PM
1 2
profile picture
remove
Posts: 2566 - Karma: 1,026
johnnyBuzLol. Gotta learn your history bud. Yes - considering there is a lack of full-time jobs for college graduates who are working temp jobs, $15/hr would attract those types to fast food jobs with the expectation you can work your way up to manager, corporate, etc.

Furthermore, inflation in 2007 was not driven by an increase in the minimum wage, it was driven by a red hot economy that was creating bubbles in the stock market, housing market and commodity market driven by easy credit. Inflation is demand driven which is why it's always highest at the peak of a business cycle.

When credit dried up the economy went bust. The lol 50 cent increase in minimum wage had no effect on any of that.

Artificially doubling the minimum wage would result in huge market inefficiencies, reduce demand, and quite possibly lead to deflation.


Inflation is bad for businesses and profit margins that companies care about the most. Companies will take care of that any which way they can, cutting mainly their part time workers because they won't face lawsuits doing so. Even cutting part time employees won't make it as profitable as the current minimum wage so they'll raise prices.

Unemployment is bad for the government so they'll rectify that as fast as possible before worrying about the inflation because the market has a good habit of working that out (by raising prices). There was an increase in demand in 07 and no move in prices causing increase in inflation before the drop of the market with the credit bubble you are mentioning. It wasn't till 08 that the market came crashing down and that was mainly due to speculation on real estate and balloon payments.

How would it reduce demand and lead to deflation? And it's not artificial if they actually do it.
Apr 16 2015 11:24PM
4 1
profile picture
daOyster
Posts: 329 - Karma: 298
Just cap minimum wage at $10, get rid of a lot of social welfare programs. Implement a flat tax rate. And finally, put in a form of Universal basic income of about $10000 a year for working age citizens. Would clear up a lot of wage inequality real fast and would stop punishing poor people. Since it basically acts as a tax rebate for the poor, and a baseline for everyone else to help with basic needs. It also one of the few ways we can survive automation, which is a good thing, without becoming a dystopian world run by the social elite.
Apr 17 2015 11:13AM
2 0
profile picture
cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,687
schneidert6This is why I love Newschoolers. I have a 10 page paper on minimum wage due Monday and their just happens to be a thread about it.


Using this as a starting point for you paper would be a good way to go about ensuring that changes in the minimum wage have a direct impact on your life.


You're all wrong, and you're all right at the same time; kinda.

There are arguments made both for and against this by well respected economists, backed up with evidence and reasoned logic. The best economic predictions are still less dependable than the sketchiest weather forecast.

suppose a fucking can opener.
Apr 17 2015 11:42AM
4 0
profile picture
ANDR01D
Posts: 1181 - Karma: 3,319
cobra_commandersuppose a fucking can opener.


?????????
Apr 17 2015 11:45AM
0 0
profile picture
Trace.
Posts: 1460 - Karma: 635
cobra_commanderUsing this as a starting point for you paper would be a good way to go about ensuring that changes in the minimum wage have a direct impact on your life.


You're all wrong, and you're all right at the same time; kinda.

There are arguments made both for and against this by well respected economists, backed up with evidence and reasoned logic. The best economic predictions are still less dependable than the sketchiest weather forecast.

suppose a fucking can opener.


Thisthisthisthis. Everyone here is cherrypicking arguments that have been beaten to death by economists trying to argue what they believe will work. You can't just definitively say x causes y because of the innumerable amount of other factors. All I can comfortably argue for is that the minimum wage should be increasing with the rate of inflation, something that isn't happening right now.

Also, does anyone against minimum wage increases think that maybe just possibly profit margins could be held by balancing wages between employees and CEO's? Is an increase of over 900% in pay since 1978 really something that can't be dialed back for the sake of the consumer and the employee?

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/12/04/5-facts-about-the-minimum-wage/
Apr 17 2015 12:27PM
0 0
profile picture
Brule.
Posts: 3921 - Karma: 6,206
Steezy_IN_KCHere: http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/fast-food-workers-you-dont-deserve-15-an-hour-to-flip-burgers-and-thats-ok/
This is a wonderful article explaining what $15/hr. looks like.


THIS. $15/hour for a wage is hard to earn, and it requires dedication. I work minimum wage as a ski instructor plus tips (if I end up recieving any) in the winter, mimimum wage at a summer camp for eight weeks in the summer. All of these are seasonal jobs, and I'm still in high school. Right now I'm looking for a second summer job in order to hopefully buy myself a car and have some money for gas and save the rest for my future.

It's great to have goals, and jobs that have wages of $15/hour are good to strive for, instead of having a wage of $15/hour handed to you, and that's what fast-food employees want. Of course, the obvious reason why raising wages at minimum-wage jobs is bad because inflation skyrockets, causing products and necessities to cost a lot, thus causing workers being laid off and unemployment increases. Once the cost of products increase, less customers equals businesses closing up shop.

So is it really worth raising the wage for minimum wage workers? The answer is no.



Also, OP, you're wrong about the worth of the dollar bill decreasing.
Apr 17 2015 6:19PM
1 1
profile picture
lIllI
Posts: 1255 - Karma: 1,986
Earned Income Tax Credits ftw

Increase spending power of the working class by reducing their tax expense instead of making their income providers foot the bill and muck up labor market.
Apr 17 2015 6:44PM
3 0
All times are Eastern (-5)