Knee Bindings, is the consensus that they suck?

Got a friend that has a pair. He only used them for a couple weeks at the end of the season, but the only time he prereleased the bindings wernt set properly and it was in the toe. They handled jumps as good as any other binding.
The only reason I wouldn't buy a pair is because they are so high off the ski, its a little higher than jesters, which Im not a fan of.

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/765802/KneeBinding-Park-Edit

I'm sure we can all agree that if you are in the position in which you need a brace, it sucks, and in conjunction wearing one sucks

Bump.

Unofficial sequel. That is all.
https://vimeo.com/91473846

Count*BlattulaUnofficial sequel. That is all.
https://vimeo.com/91473846

Are you one of the skiers in this edit or have used the bindings? How was experience if you've used em?

So it appears that these bindings are pretty solid for park. These skiers are certainly better than I am in the park, but I do tend to hit fairly bigger jumps and ski tech lines and drop cliffs. I doubt anyone poking around in gear talk on NS has experience with knee bindings in big mtn terrain.

Really, I'm not sure why a huge amount of park skiers don't use this binding. I have had surgery on both of my shoulders and have a bad hip. So for me personally I would rather risk a knee injury than eject in a situation in which I am not used to. Without having more evidence that this binding holds up during bigger skiing in general, personally I am reluctant to buy it. Also can anyone elaborate on how they put you further up on the ski and if that's adjustable, thanks.

ChrisHarperAlso can anyone elaborate on how they put you further up on the ski and if that's adjustable, thanks.

The AFD on the toe and heel is higher off the ski than other bindings. Based on the design of the binding they seem to need to be this high and it isn't adjustable, unless you want to add risers and lift your foot that much higher off the ski.

I would say that people don't ride them at a high level since they only offer a 12 din binding and many have their din set to 12 or higher. There is also no reason to switch from what is already a safe product as there is really nothing backing up that Knee bindings are safer.

I haven't read any scientific information on pivoting bindings being safer than non-pivot bindings. If they were companies would only be making pivoting heels because of safety concerns (I would hope regardless of law). Look at fks and STH, one pivots, one doesn't but they are basically held equal in terms of safety/ quality. Just watching Knee's "tech" video has me wondering where they got all of their "this is safer" information from. The "flex float" thing they have going on, where you don't pre-release from an over-flexing ski worries me. Plenty of acl tears happen from a twisting backseat landing, so you would want a ski to "pre-release" on flexing out your ski.

With no scientific evidence to back up the information someone could easily call up the Federal Trade Commission and have all of their marketing pulled as they can't claim to be safer without scientific proof. With that said if someone does have scientific evidence and a link to an article I would love to read it.

They are incredibly ugly compared to jester, griffon, fks, pivot, etc. which may be a part of why park skiers don't like them. Also the din only goes up to 12 and I have heard from people that they like their din over 12 idk why. Other than that I don't see why park skiers don't like them.

I have never skied on the bindings but I have felt them in a shop the carries them, and they are very heavy.

Just something to consider if using them for park.

PoikenzLook at fks and STH, one pivots, one doesn't but they are basically held equal in terms of safety/ quality.

FKS don't release laterally from the heal like Kneebindings do, so even though they pivot, its not a good comparison.

TOAST.FKS don't release laterally from the heal like Kneebindings do, so even though they pivot, its not a good comparison.

I would agree that it wasn't a great comparison as there is the misconception about fks, but it is also partly to say that no one really knows what is the safest binding. Lateral release theoretically sounds great and I believe in it, but without a study who is to say that the difference would be statistically significant?

FKS dont release laterally from the heal? what is the point of the heal piece being able to pivot? apparently ive had that misconception too

petroFKS dont release laterally from the heal? what is the point of the heal piece being able to pivot? apparently ive had that misconception too

The pivoting heel aids the toe in lateral release. Lateral release means it will eject to the sides. The pivot heel does not eject to the sides, only vertically like every other heel piece except the Knee Binding.

After tearing my ACL twice, I would still never put Knee Bindings on my skis. Way too high off the skis, the plastic feels extremely cheap, and you cannot swap skis without swapping heel pieces.

Ahh thanks for clearing that up. I have a pair of fks and always assumed that they released from the heal laterally, derp. I've also torn my acl and had it repaired but my bindings work fine for me.

Also, that website...my god. I can't take a company seriously with a website like that

I found it interesting that they claim that Knee Bindings are the only binding proven to reduce knee injuries, because I have knee injuries. So I dug around their site for a while to see what they had to substantiate their claim. It would seem that they've done a rather extensive amount of lab testing, with a lot of video footage of skis set in jigs to hold them in place by the binding while they pull on the ski in various ways to reproduce forces that might be applied to the ski while skiing or in a crash. They also have a testimonial from a professional skier and some footage of him falling. Based on what they have on their site (and that's about all, I'm a doctor or anything. At best, I have some classical education in physics that maybe applies), I would say that their proof is probably based on measuring the amount of force that would be exerted on the knee before release and also the fact that the binding truly does have more potential release angles than other bindings. I imagine that their claims are true, to a point. All the competing binding manufacturers have lawyers on retainer who either already called the Federal Trade Commission, or looked into it and decided there was no reason to call the Federal Trade Commission. However, I also notice that they use smart language in their claims as well. They say that no one has ever reported a knee injury while using Knee Bindings. That just means that anybody who might have injured their knee in a Knee Binding hasn't told anybody. They also say "reduce knee injuries," not "prevent." So even if somebody were to report a knee injury, it wouldn't invalidate their claim so long as more people were hurting their knees in other bindings. Knee Bindings don't seem particularly popular, so there's probably far less impirical evidence for whether or not Knee Bindings are better or worse than other bindings because far fewer people are using them. Also, in their video they show the lateral release by pulling sideways, at a ninety degree angle to the edge of the ski, on the middle of the ski. This is the only angle that traditional bindings failed to release from. I think the chances of applying force straight to the side of your ski, without putting more pressure on the tip or the tail and engaging the typical toe release is pretty minimal. So I think the chances of this binding saving an ACL are probably not much greater than the protection you would get from any other binding. I don't know if I'd say Knee Bindings suck (based on what I read on their website and holding a pair in my hands at a shop a while back), but I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to recommend them either.

TL:DR-In short, there's nothing to convince me that I should use this binding over my usual FKS/Pivot binding. I don't really like how high the stand height is, they're heavy,and the benefit seems pretty minimal. Also, expensive. Knee Bibding is probably just another binding, comparable to the rest.

Bindings now adays have pretty advanced as far a safety goes atleast that's how it seems but I think the biggest reason people tear their acts is because of their din. I ride the fks and it would make sense if it helped your knees a little bit because instead of releasing at the toe and having your heal stay in place it follows the lateral release which is nice.

kryptonicBindings now adays have pretty advanced as far a safety goes atleast that's how it seems but I think the biggest reason people tear their acts is because of their din. I ride the fks and it would make sense if it helped your knees a little bit because instead of releasing at the toe and having your heal stay in place it follows the lateral release which is nice.

Bindings nowadays are pretty advanced and you ride fks's which are an '80s design?

BlackcountryBillBindings nowadays are pretty advanced and you ride fks's which are an '80s design?

Yeah the design is from the 80s but they must've changed some things to make it better, like the toe piece seems like it changed wsince the original one and next years pivots are going to have a sliding afd to you get a better release. So things like that must make them better.

I would agree, even though the design of modern bindings may be similar to that of older bindings, improvements have been made both in terms of performance and safety. In regards to the Knee Bindings, if they really do have something worthwhile here, other companies will start building comparable bindings and trying to improve the design.

overall bindings haven't changed significantly over the decades just new things here and their. I think just from researching knee bindings that their lateral release system is better than any other one out there, but that doesn't make the whole binding better or worse. Also I tore my ACL this year and the way that I did it (the same way many others have) was i landed funky back seat which takes away all pressure on the toe piece so the binding can't release properly no matter what model/brand it is.

bump to see if there are any more thoughts out there

I also have this dilemma! please let me know if you end up getting them so you can give me an idea of how they are! my brother is getting a set put on his pow skis so i will try and clip into them this winter

I'm somewhat over the hill which helps to account for my interest in Knee bindings. I never willingly go anywhere near a park, but race masters downhill and super G. I am very pleased with my Knee bindings, the Hard Core model which, has a din max of 14.

ChrisHarperSo it doesn't take long to browse the forums or check out some videos on NS before you see the depressing phrase "tore my ACL, out for the season, need surgery".

I came across Knee Bindings (http://www.kneebinding.com), and while they are designed for ACL injuries and seem extremely helpful in preventing ACL injuries, it seems that the consensus amongst freeskiers is that they should not be used for park/aggressive skiing due to undesirable release issues. However I am wondering if these opinions are justified with personal experience, videos, etc. The population who use Knee Bindings and ski aggressively is certainly extremely small, which obviously might be highly correlated to the distrust amongst park skiers, but I am wondering if the distrust is warranted in the first place.

The only video I can find (positively or negatively) depicting knee-bindings is this one where the knee-binding definitely looks solid:

https://vimeo.com/27739169 (+k for embed)


yes this is a repost, will also post in gear talk later

The easiest way around all this is to stretch! Stretch your legs, every part, as much as you can. If you cant get your knuckles to your toes you are at a lot of risk for ACL tearing. I get it, it sucks to stretch, when I started competing at 15 I couldn't reach my ankles, but I had a scare where I thought I tore my ACL, and started stretching. It obviously doesn't make you invincible, but it really fuckin helps.

I realize this is an old thread, but it's the top Google hit for KneeBinding reviews, so I figured I should share my experience with KneeBinding and it's CEO John Springer Miller (JSM.) My experience is a few years old as well, but I'm finally in a position where I can talk about and publish my experience.

I should start by saying that my bindings - KneeBinding Carbon's - were provided to me by KneeBinding's initiative to get industry professionals on their product and in public view. My bindings were mounted by a certified KneeBinding service tech.

Now that that's out of the way...These binding's were nothing but trouble since day 1. Several issues quickly became apparent, and when they did, the CEO of the company, rather than being receptive to constructive criticism became uncomfortably defensive of the product.

Here's what I found:

First: the ramp delta of the bindings is uncomfortably high. This is the change in height from heel to toe. JSM - the CEO - told me that there was nothing wrong with the ramp delta, but conveniently, that they sold a product to change the angle. Without this add-on, the bindings feel like you're skiing in high heels. You're essentially transferring your turn energy through your big toe rather than through your foot.

Second: the binding is extraordinarily difficult to put on, especially in cold environments (you know, like winter.) Again, JSM told me this is not a problem with the binding, but that I was stepping into the binding incorrectly. I've been skiing since I was two years old, I have 10 years racing experience, and 16 years as an industry professional. I like to think that I have a pretty good handle on how to put skis on my feet. This was condescending and almost the apex of his douchiness.

Third and most importantly: these bindings are right foot left foot dependent. What this means is that you CANNOT swap your edges without taking your binding off of your skis. JSM didn't understand the problem here...he probably skis in jeans. If you do try to swap your feet and wear your right foot binding on your left foot, you risk walking out of your skis by activating the lateral release when loading your downhill ski. This is inconvenient at best and dangerous at worst.

Now for my experience...I managed to tear (complete) my ACL, lateral meniscus, and fracture my tibial plateau of my right knee while wearing these steaming piles. I have no history of knee injury. When sharing my experiences and constructive criticisms with JSM, he was dismissive and defensive. He has no interest in what people (professionals) think of his product, he just wants us to be his shills.

I am a known entity in my "little" east coast ski town, and have made it my personal mission that the shops in this town do not carry his product. In fact,(JSM if you're reading this listen closely) I am one of the reasons his product is not on the shelves of one of the largest retailers on the east coast. Don't bite the hand that feeds you, JSM.

TLDR; These are dangerous at best, save yourself the headache and get yourself a pair of Pivots.

Holy old thread, but yeah at the top of Google results. I always wondered about these. The idea in itself is great. Theoretically they release where your traditional bindings won't. I've been in that phantom foot position before and it is truly scary. They will prevent some knee injuries, but not all obviously. My thoughts is that they aren't more popular is because they are still relatively new compared to the traditional binding style. Probably many concerns about prerelease whether true or not. Also they run $400+ on average, whereas you can buy brand new Pivots for $280 or the previous years model for even less- and pivots are more of an expensive binding. People won't shell out for something that they would be the only people on the mountain in. Popularity. They have no prestige yet, while other companies such as Marker, Look, tyrolia, Salomon, etc. do. You also have to think about competition. This company is small and definitely overshadowed by the older more established binding companies out there.

Whenever the patent expires and the big companies start making this type of binding, is when it may become more popular. That is a huge maybe.

I assumed the point of knee bindings was to save your knees.

As in, "I'd rather be randomly tomahawking down the hill at 50 mph than go through another ACL surgery."

I've been skiing with these bindings since they first came out well more than 10 years ago. I have 400+ days on various versions of the things ---- lots of deep and steep, groomers, bumps, tons of back country days in the Sierras, etc. Never once had an unwanted release....never. Also, never had a rotational heal release that I know of either, but I don't think I've needed it. I've also driven thousands of miles and never used my airbag either. If you investigate the mechanics of the heal release, it will work if called upon. Why not have the airbag if it's available is my attitude.

Dont touch knee bindings with a 10 foot pole

now Im not saying they’re technology is bullshit, because it is definitely safer for knees. But the safety comes at the price of having some of the worst retention of any binding I’ve ever skied.

My experience was skiing them on a pair of all mountain/ park skis, I got given a set of them as part of the uvm free skiing team partnership that only lasted a year. Multiple people gave the bindings back after a week or two on them due to unpredictable releases. I didn’t have other bindings to use so I kept them the whole season. I can’t describe the amount of times they released on the lip of a rail or the take off of a jump, as well as in the middle of mogul fields, leading to no knee injuries but many tomohawks that left me more than a little sore.

Now before anyone says that my bindings were misadjusted, they were mounted and set to my boots in the knee bindings headquarters, and then double checked and my dins uped to over 3 dins higher than i was running on my set of fks on my other skis.

In the end I traded them for a six pack of beer and felt like I was ripping the person off.

I just want to ad my 2 cents to what to me is an unfairly negative thread. Seems most if not all the posters in this thread are park or advanced skiers whose top concern is all-out performance. Fair enough. But most skiers worry much more about an ACL injury that might end their skiing for the season if not for good than about cranking their DINs off the scale or a couple added ounces in 10+ lbs of ski weight.

I bought new skis this season and after a lot of homework, decided to go with Kneebinding Carbons. It was noteworthy that I read no Kneebinding review anywhere that said they failed to protect as advertised; or that someone tore their ACL catching an inside edge while wearing them, the intended condition for side release. The added cost will be insignificant if these bindings give just a fraction of the protection claimed. I live 20 minutes from Mt Bachelor and ski twice a week. I've had no issues with the KBs other than the installer forgot to adjust the boot setting properly so the heels were hard to engage. When I emailed KB about it, I got a phone call from the owner of the co. and he spent an hour walking me through the adjustment process. Problem disappeared. And yes, they do recommend a slightly different and actually easier technique when stepping in. No big deal.

Kneebindings aren't a panacea and the company makes some claims beyond knee protection, but it is a safer binding design. After decades of big name mfrs spending more on event banners than on R&D for safer bindings for the average buyer, I'd just like to see KB get a fair chance to prove it's technology instead of being dismissed by expert skiers whose safety priorities are different from average and often occasional skiers.

don't own but friend across the street does and he pops out at the wierdest times and they feel low quality

just get a pair of salomons and thank yourself later

barunrmSecond: the binding is extraordinarily difficult to put on, especially in cold environments (you know, like winter.)

My KBs were installed by a certified installer too, at a very reputable local shop. I had a hell of a time getting them on first time at the mtn on snow. Took them back and the installer ground a little material off my boot heels...a little improvement when tried at the shop but still very hard to step into at the mtn on snow and in the cold. I called KN to complain and was walked through the setting process. The installing tech had set the boot adjustment (bottom screw of the three on heel binding) way too tight...or just forgot about it. I also got the advice on positioning and straightening my leg instead just jamming my heel down to put them on as I always had. It was a better way. Once properly adjusted, the KBs went on as easily as any binding I've used and I've had no release issues; though I'm not pushing them to the brink. I think because KBs are quite expensive and not very well known, that even factory-certified installers don't get much practice installing them and may overlook the boot adjustment.

I’m not sure how far down this response will be, or if anyone will ever see it - but I feel like I owe it to anyone even considering a knee binding to make this post.

It wasn’t my intent to make this a novel, but it’s a cautionary tale worth hearing for anyone considering buying these things - or perhaps somebody who is already on a set, and had the same existential anguish like me.



Before any of this happened to me, I had no clue how critical a ski binding can really be to ones performance.

Long story short (sort of, haha): Factastic Facts: had a Blizzard Bonafide with Rossignol FKS bindings purchased back in the 15/16 season. When those skis were shot after 200 days of abuse, I got a new set of Bonafides for the 18/19 season (same exact ski, just different graphics) – but this time with a knee binding CORE (3-12).



Earlier in the 20/21 season here I had the owner of a ski shop here in Flagstaff, AZ laugh when he saw my knee bindings, and mansplained to me why they sucked (Heavier than current competitor’s bindings, old technology (other than their “pure lateral” third release point] and way too high off the ski). I was feeling some serious buyer’s remorse, I did a web search, and found this forum – which as you might imagine only increased the negative resonance in my fragmented information echo chamber. I tried not to believe I’d made a terrible mistake buying these, and hoped for the best.



On a 2 week ski vacation in Colorado I couldn’t seem to rediscover the mojo I could channel in years past. In fact, my 60 year old father seemed to be getting through the bumps effortlessly, and I felt like I was just feeling painfully out of the rhythm, and off my game trying to keep up. I should have been warmed up for the season well before this point in time.

I ended up getting new boots (the ones I had were about 10 years old), which definitely helped put more energy and pop into my turns again, but something was still wasn’t congruent with how I remember a set of Blizzard Bonfides feeling. I felt like the skis couldn’t really flex into, and hold an edge onto groom – and on a Bonafide that doesn’t make sense (that’s where its suppose to excel!)



Either Blizzard was making a cheaper ski than a few years earlier, the knee binding was affecting my performance, or there was something different about me. Refusing to believe that I was regressing into a jerry, and that Blizzard would betray me – I deduced that the binding’s extra weight, weird forward tilting angle, and amount of distance off the ground was to blame.



In an act of pure desperation I decided to pull the trigger on a $385.68 experiment. I got a set of Look Pivots (same thing as an FKS) mounted to my Bonafides, and pray to the Sweet Baby Jesus it made a statistically significant difference.

Well, holy shit guys, heres what happened.



Same exact skis, boots, skier – and most importantly - same conditions, yet different bindings. The difference was night and day. There hadn’t been fresh snow on the ground there in about 10 days, but it essentially felt like a powder day for me. The bumps felt smoother, like I could smear, slide, and of course even carve through the bumps with incredible ease.



I remember the guy at the ski shop telling me that knee bindings were super heavy, but I didn’t think it really mattered that much because the weight was close to my feet. Surprisingly to me I could actually feel the difference, like a weight was lifted. There was such a thrill to having the edges of the skis sink into the hill like I remembered, and how swift edge to edge I could be once again.


Even clicking into the things felt completely different – the LOOK Pivot bindings had almost a gentle fashion of adhering to my boots, where as the KneeBinding required much more force to step down into, and had a sharp springing click.



My movements with both skis are much more “fluid”, and more enjoyable now that the knee binding is in the rearview mirror. I feel more confidence because the “platform” I create with both of my edges has a bigger sweet spot, because it feels like I can recruit more of the skis edge into the turn – almost like my big toe is extended halfway down the inside edge. Theres a flow I have through my transitions during the run that I really couldn’t achieve with that clunky old KneeBindings. The Pivots can do this effortless steezy little slide along the ski bases that I couldn’t seem replicate on the Kneebindings.



An additional bonus not to be overlooked is that now I can swap my skis back and forth to ski both edges once again, and these pivots just look super fly!



My thoughts: The knee binding is suppose to prevent “a slow backwards fall” from giving you a knee injury… that honestly sounds like some old fat guy jerry kind of maneuver. As long as you keep it in the front seat, you really shouldn’t require these clunky bindings. I’m not sure how much safer I really was in the knee bindings, but I’m willing to wager that whatever gains in safety I’ve waived have been far outweighed by the performance I’ve acquired in the Look Pivot binding.



Bottom line: If you’re an old, cautious skier, maybe they’re for you? But if you’re trying to get after it and rip the knar, get a set of FKS or Pivots and don’t go near these stupid things.

knee bindings are the worst thing to ever happen to ski bindings. Don't waste your time with them, trust me from personal experience. These bindings love to eject you all over the mountain. Stick with Tyrolia, Marker, or Look.

Holzsteezy*https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/765802/KneeBinding-Park-Editwhat reort is that?

what resort is that?

thanos7thstonerwhat resort is that?

Stowe back in 2010. Bit of a trip seeing a video of yourself filmed over a decade ago pop up on NS...especially since even back then we were all middling at best skiers.