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PoLaRpEaKI just live in a rich city. Standard.
theabortionatorBecause everyone in every restaurant or bar in America is totally paid on the books. No restaurant would ever pay their employees under the table.
And the point is grasping at straws honestly regardless. The money they need to make up to pay them a decent wage would barely increase anything. Maybe business would use it as an excuse to hike prices a bit, but there wouldn't be a NEED to increase prices substantially.
Let's just set a fucking price and let people come in and pay that price. If you want to tip beyond that go for it, but mandatory tipping is useless. The only reasons for supporting it IMO is being cultured into thinking it's the way to go.
shocker611Most services that have a 1-1 employee to customer relationship do have tipping. Like we've been talking about- barbers, valet, servers, drivers, they all supplement income with tipping. It makes sense for those businesses, as performance is highly visible and there is a personal "relationship" developed. You don't have a 1 on 1 service coming from lifties, so that argument makes zero sense. In addition, labor isn't the major cost to a ski resort, and it is a COMPLETELY different business model (practically economies of scale for ski resorts vs diseconomies of scale for restaurants).
Most businesses that rely on these services are extremely low margin businesses, so by having the tipping system, you are keeping prices lower for the services they are offering. If restaurants had to pay full+ labor costs, many would close, and those that did survive would have astronomical prices compared to what we pay today.
pow_pow~the only 1-1 there is barbers and maybe drivers. valets do dozens of cars all day and are only with you for about 30 seconds. there job is to park and retrieve your car, what are they doing extra that deserves a tip?
servers sure as hell arent 1-1 either. is there 1 server for every customer in a restaurant? no? thats fucking retarded. once again, their job is to serve you. what are they doing extra that deserves a tip?
literally every other business has to pay their employees. why not restaurants? its a joke.
shocker611You obviously have 0 sense as to the economics of restaurants. Their labor costs would increase 3 or 4-fold, that is HUGE for such a low margin business. Labor is a major contributor to restaurant expense, so saying it would "barely increase anything" is honestly so far off it's barely even worth addressing. Something like a third of restaurant revenue goes straight to their employees already, now imagine that it costs 3x as much for those employees. How can you even think that restaurants wouldn't close/hike prices through the roof?
theabortionatorBecause every employee in a restaurant is wait staff or a bartender so increasing their wage even 4 times what it is would increase the labor costs by 4 times right?
"hike the prices through the roof" lollerskates.
shocker611You obviously have 0 sense as to the economics of restaurants. Their labor costs would increase 3 or 4-fold, that is HUGE for such a low margin business. Labor is a major contributor to restaurant expense, so saying it would "barely increase anything" is honestly so far off it's barely even worth addressing. Something like a third of restaurant revenue goes straight to their employees already, now imagine that it costs 3x as much for those employees. How can you even think that restaurants wouldn't close/hike prices through the roof?
pow_pow~if a third of restaurant revenue goes to employees, that are getting paid $2.50 or whatever an hour then whoever is running that restaurant is fucking retarded.
shocker611Oh.. right. Because you know better than an expansive study by professionals right? Eat a dick. Go drink and drive yourself into a tree.
shocker611Oh.. right. Because you know better than an expansive study by professionals right? Eat a dick. Go drink and drive yourself into a tree.
pow_pow~youre right, i suppose the professionals are right. and ive never been to the usa.
but i have been to probably 15 other countries and guess what??? they can run restaurants fine with paying their employees good rates without tips. wow that might be a hard concept for you to understand but thats what really happens in the real world!!! people get paid by their employer!!!
pow_pow~youre right, i suppose the professionals are right. and ive never been to the usa.
but i have been to probably 15 other countries and guess what??? they can run restaurants fine with paying their employees good rates without tips. wow that might be a hard concept for you to understand but thats what really happens in the real world!!! people get paid by their employer!!!
pow_pow~no, they dont add service charges. some fine dining maybe, most people at fine dining tip anyway.
im not even going to bother arguing with you. until you have lived in a country that doesnt tip for more than two weeks you will never understand just how stupid tipping really is.
you have a minimum wage but restaurants are allowed to pay staff under minimum wage? that is so backwards. you really are behind the rest of the world in that respect.
shocker611You do realize that a lot of the countries you are referring to add service charges to bills right? How is that any different than tipping except that it takes the decision out of the hands of the consumer?
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VinnieFricher city actually, if this is a good indicator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Median_household_income_of_cities_in_Canada
RusticlesWow, Kind of shocked by this.
VinnieFwhy come? Ottawa's economy is dominated by high-tech and federal government jobs and we have the highest percentage of post-secondary degree graduates in the country, a low unemployment rate, and practically no poverty compared to other large cities.
That number of $95,000 probably even includes Gatineau, since their population figure certainly does, and Gatineau is definitely bringing that income down (no hate, just Gatineau is definitely lower income and draws more low income families in the area because of the lower housing costs).
p.hawksWhen I'm home from school, I go to the same place I've gone for years, so usually 20% and an extra dollar. Eg. 5 instead of 4 on 20.
UglyboyYou're over tipping so much.
theabortionatorSoooooooooooo what youre trying to say is you tip 25% ?
-emile-are you poor ?
10% is the cheapest tip you can give a part from just not tipping.
Uglyboy10% for shit service, 15% for normal and above 15% for exceptional.
-emile-see that's not how it works
15% is for shitty service 20% standard and 25 and over if they go out of their way to accomodate you.
-emile-see that's not how it works
15% is for shitty service 20% standard and 25 and over if they go out of their way to accomodate you.
-emile-see that's not how it works
15% is for shitty service 20% standard and 25 and over if they go out of their way to accomodate you.
pow_pow~why would you give someone extra money if they did the job they were HIRED to do poorly?
iSmokeweedbecause we make $2 bucks an hour before tips. and all that goes to taxes.
iSmokeweedbecause we make $2 bucks an hour before tips. and all that goes to taxes.
AnathemaI've never understood tipping things that don't require any extra work. I get it with servers, because you're personally asking them to do more than just bring you're food back and forth, you're asking for drink refills, condiments, more this, more that, etc. They really "serve" you.
Barbers just cut your hair. And they charge you to cut your hair. Where does the "above and beyond" come in? Same thing with delivery guys. Why the hell am I tipping a pizza delivery man $5 when he's only driving to and from my house?
pow_pow~sorry but you knew the pay before you got the job. dont complain. and it obviously doesnt all go to taxes.
iSmokeweedi mean dont get me wrong, im a kick ass server/bartender. im not worried about the shitty college student who only brings 14 dollars in cash and gets 13.15 in food. i have plenty of poeple that leave $20 on a $50 check. im looking at my YTD report right now and my tip percentage on the year is 22.34. i couldnt give shits about a shitty bartender that just pours drinks and lounges around. when i go out to a bar, i dont mind tipping poorly on bad service because i know the job and i dont like paying people to do something im better at.
im just saying that your tip is who pays the server, not the restaurant. so if you cant afford to tip, go eat mcdonalds or just get take out.
and when my bar is packed (which it is pretty much every night), i know my good tippers and my bad tippers. guess who gets the better service? the only way to get good service is to tip well. it easier at a bar than the dining room because i have many more regulars, but one you tip poorly
AnathemaI've never understood tipping things that don't require any extra work. I get it with servers, because you're personally asking them to do more than just bring you're food back and forth, you're asking for drink refills, condiments, more this, more that, etc. They really "serve" you.
Barbers just cut your hair. And they charge you to cut your hair. Where does the "above and beyond" come in? Same thing with delivery guys. Why the hell am I tipping a pizza delivery man $5 when he's only driving to and from my house?
SKI.INGOkay hear me out since you're speaking from personal experience. I'm speaking from California. So say you come over here and we go out to dinner. But before dinner I give you the facts. That all the staff at the restaurant are paid AT LEAST minimum wage, and get tips. And say we receive average to below average service. Will you still tip the same as you would anywhere else knowing what you know now?
And also, I disagree with your last paragraph. That thinking is a vicious cycle. I would be tipping poorly or not at all for bad service. So if you keep giving bad service to a bad tipper, then you'd keep receiving a low tip from them. It shouldn't be regardless of performance you'll receive a good tip. In this case, service first, tip after. I should get good service, and THEN you should get a good tip.
pow_pow~you can still use that logic with servers. there job is to serve you, bring you drinks, food, cutlery if you need extra.
Anathemayeah but a lot is dependent on the person. in any given night, you dont really know what you're going to get. are you going to be shlogging away bringing constant drink refills to a tball team of 20 kids?
for a barber, they don't do anything extra. they don't do anything to personalize the visit. they cut your hair and are done. i dont know, it feels different to me. i would tip someone for doing me a favor. a server fetching things for me seems like a favor. like extra effort. cutting my hair doesn't.
pow_pow~then if you have a tball team of 20 kids thats the manager's responsibility to roster accordingly.
Profahoben_212How is the manager supposed to know that they are coming in? They Definately try to schedule as many people as they need for the night, but sometimes it gets really busy. Nobody can see the future.
pow_pow~thats what reservations are for?
