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Bootfitting help

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Park.
Posts: 2480 - Karma: 4,582
yo,
So I have a pair of Nordica 3 stars that I absolutely love, but I have a serious problem with heel hold. I have bruising on the back of my heel and the top of my heel from heel lift. the boots are very very snug and fit properly. the only problem is my foot is so damn boney (spelling?) that im getting excessive friction and contact on pinpoint spot on the heel (especially the top on the bony). This isnt from my foot sliding around (my calf is tightly hugged 360 degrees around in the cuff).


this is happening from putting a deep flex into the boot. I also feel like this problem is from the lack of a heel pocket that Nordica's have. I guess they think the 45 degree buckle compensates for it, but I still need a damn heel pocket. My feet just slam into the back of the heel pocket whenever I land heavy and flex and it always hurts.

I've gone to the place where I got the boots (new shop for me) and they are very far away and out of the way so I can't go as much as I really need to. the first time I let them know about the heel hold issue I suggested j bars but they said they had something else and used some foam pads that they on each side of my achilles tendon to fill in the space. At first it worked, but I was doubtful about it since the foam would pack out just like the liner. That happened, and now I still have the same problem.

My heels have been so badly bruised that I cant properly walk for 2 days after skiing. every day I am sore and my heels hurt way more than they should, and its pissing me off because I am so close to having boots with no problems (never had those before). But again, I can't readily get to my shop whenever I want so I want, if possible, to have the exact solution so I can just fix this problem and not have to worry about it ever again.

I'm thinking of tossing intuition liners in there because I never had this problem with my FT's (really the only thing I didn't ahve a problem with), adding more foam into the heel to add cushioning or to help get a better mold, add a j bar, and regardless of what I do, I am getting the area where my bony makes contact with the boot grinded since it just juts out so much that it will always hurt when I land switch.

So NS, what are your ideas?
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Mar 22 2015 10:26PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7147 - Karma: 17,498
Heels can be tough sometimes in this respect. I'm working on some boots to try to help this exact problem at the moment.

Does se it feel like you have heel lift in the boot or is it just in heavy switch landings ect?

do you have any footbeds? Having te foot neutral will for sure help.

Making ire sure the instep fit is goo so your not lifting is important but your don't nesacarilly want to raise the foot much as you still want it to fit the heel pocket.

Matching the the heel pocket of the boot to the foot is the biggest factor an so long as you have the foot secure in te rest of the boot modifying the shape will be ok. You want to ensure the heel sits with the heel shape an of not it can be modifyed. I'm currently smoothing off the heel pocket to make it less harsh on the lateral side.

things you can do are ensure you are fitted snugly. Volume reducers could be added but again ensure the heel pocket still works when you move the foot.
Mar 22 2015 10:39PM
2 0
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Park.
Posts: 2480 - Karma: 4,582
tomPietrowskiHeels can be tough sometimes in this respect. I'm working on some boots to try to help this exact problem at the moment.

Does se it feel like you have heel lift in the boot or is it just in heavy switch landings ect?

do you have any footbeds? Having te foot neutral will for sure help.

Making ire sure the instep fit is goo so your not lifting is important but your don't nesacarilly want to raise the foot much as you still want it to fit the heel pocket.

Matching the the heel pocket of the boot to the foot is the biggest factor an so long as you have the foot secure in te rest of the boot modifying the shape will be ok. You want to ensure the heel sits with the heel shape an of not it can be modifyed. I'm currently smoothing off the heel pocket to make it less harsh on the lateral side.

things you can do are ensure you are fitted snugly. Volume reducers could be added but again ensure the heel pocket still works when you move the foot.


1. every other aspect of the boot is well fitted and no problems except the heel pocket. The pocket feels like Nordica just took an icecream scoop and used that to make a heel pocket. I have no real definition of shape just a carved out pocket. I can feel it all the time, but its only side to side (and only miniscule movement) until I start skiing and landing heavy switch

2. I have fully custom footbeds that have not given me any problems.

3. I have had so many issues with instep, but luckily Nordica's provide a problem free solution to my instep pain. NO problems whatsoever, very snug, solid fit.

4. I have my boots as tight as I can in without cutting off circulation. I couldnt take up any more room in any spot except the heel pocket, and maybe another spot but thats not relevant for this issue.

What do you think I should aim for to fix the solution? I feel like a punch on my bony and a j bar will do the trick, but I also have tons of room laterally. are there any bootfitting pieces that are just heelpockets you can insert in boots to get a more snug fit?
Mar 22 2015 11:08PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7147 - Karma: 17,498
Does it feel like te heel slides side to side or is it more of a rolling feeling in the heel?

shaping the heel to a comparator the foot and then ensuring you hold the foot in place will be the biggest factors. Holdin the heel is not always just done to the heel area though. Extra padding on the instep or tounge may help.

Something else to consider is how tight your achilies is. Stand in a neutral position and then bend your knees forward and see how far you can go until your heels lift.
Mar 22 2015 11:13PM
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Park.
Posts: 2480 - Karma: 4,582
tomPietrowskiDoes it feel like te heel slides side to side or is it more of a rolling feeling in the heel?

shaping the heel to a comparator the foot and then ensuring you hold the foot in place will be the biggest factors. Holdin the heel is not always just done to the heel area though. Extra padding on the instep or tounge may help.

Something else to consider is how tight your achilies is. Stand in a neutral position and then bend your knees forward and see how far you can go until your heels lift.


its more like my foot is locked and in my heel pocket, theres just no firm contact from the liner/shell. it reminds me of a vice how if you put, lets say a pencil, in a vice, its locked really well where its being held, but theres just air around the part thats not being clamped, yet it still locked in. There is no movement or wiggle unless I am skiing and put considerable force into a turn or sommething to actually have my heel move around alot.

there is no room on the instep for padding honestly, and the tongue is very snug. I buckle the tongue down as much as possible then crank my boosterstrap because I've had shinbang in these until I went to the fitter and bought some boosters and had the latch for the buckles moved wider apart to really close the space. Like I said, everything except the heel pocket has been dialed and worked on to the point where I simply dont have any problems, the fit is there, the shop I went to has even better bootfitters than my previous shop, and I havent felt problems anywhere else.

I have a lot of flexibility in this aspect, and I honestly think the Dalbello's may have been a better fit for me out of the box, but I was sold on the nordica's since the dalbellos were out of stock everywhere on the east coast so I just had to get the nordica's worked on a solid amount. I have more flexibility than my boots allow are really made to handle (since the 45 degree buckle restricts super deep flex) but i just translate that into my body taking the force and absorbing the best I can.
Mar 22 2015 11:37PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7147 - Karma: 17,498
Honestly I know you think they are good but it sounds like a footbed issue. If your foot is well held in neutral you won't get that kind of heel movment. The fact your going very tight with the buckles suggests your foot is perhaps not held well that or the boots or just to big.

What type of footbeds did you get?
Mar 23 2015 12:10AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,896
tomPietrowskiHonestly I know you think they are good but it sounds like a footbed issue. If your foot is well held in neutral you won't get that kind of heel movment. The fact your going very tight with the buckles suggests your foot is perhaps not held well that or the boots or just to big.


It could be footbed related, but from what he has said so far is it sounds like the heel pocket of the shell is simply too generous for his heel. Excess space around the heel + a bone spur will lead to exactly what the OP has described.

OP, if you truly want to solve this problem:
1. Make sure your footbed is 100% properly supporting your foot in the right way.
2. Get the area of the heel ground away for your bone spur to fit.
3. Get a foam injection liner to guarantee that you have exactly the perfect fit around your heel, ankle, and forefoot. Sidas foam is very hard, so I would stay away from them, but perhaps Boot Doc or other ski brands or race shops in your area have a solution for you.

This will not be cheap, but it will solve your problems. And if you do like the way the Nordica feels in all other regards, you can take this liner to a new Nordica in the future because they will last longer than any stock or Intuition liner.
Mar 23 2015 8:09AM
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Park.
Posts: 2480 - Karma: 4,582
tomPietrowskiHonestly I know you think they are good but it sounds like a footbed issue. If your foot is well held in neutral you won't get that kind of heel movment. The fact your going very tight with the buckles suggests your foot is perhaps not held well that or the boots or just to big.

What type of footbeds did you get?


I can't fit into a 25.5 boot at all so I went to 26.5 from a 27.5 which was a tad big in the length and very big in the calf. I have about a 1 finger shell fit, and I tighten my boots not to make them fit, but to get the best responsiveness out of them. Iv'e had to deal with overbuckling on my old boots and thats not an issue with these.

It could be the footbeds not holding me securely enough since they are for walking and are made to adjust my back (they are foot levelers full customs), but I was told to use them considering the amount of skiing I do by my chiropractor. I talked to another bootfitter that said ideally, a skiing footbed would be best, but I don't have the funds to get footbeds and I can't just buy footbeds to shape my feet, they have to be the same shape as my footbeds from my chiropractor. I have noticed that when I land forward heavily, I feel the foam in my footbed compress and my whole foot shift down, but the footbed regains its shape after a few minutes. This foam compression has not cause this heel hold problem with boots in the past, even when they were too big.

Is it even possible for bootfitters to mold a pre-existing footbed?
Mar 23 2015 11:36AM
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