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Look Pivot/Rossi FKS Broken "Wing Tips"

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Krampus
Posts: 45 - Karma: 57
Hi all! Long time listener, first time caller. I come to you folks with a problem: broken "wing tips" on the toe pieces of a pair of Rossignol FKS bindings as well as a pair of Look Pivots.

The black tips of the toe pieces can be seen in the picture below, I'm sure many of you are familiar with these bindings.



My FKS's broke when I went down hard. I get that they are not bomb proof, but my Pivots broke on a fall that was comical at worst...a really stupid fall on a groomer. It's rather unfortunate that they did not hold up for shit and broke after a few days of skiing, I never even took them to the park! Was just getting a few days in before I started beating the shit out of them.

Of course both bindings are no longer covered by the shop I bought them from as they are more than a year old (I only get to ski a few days a year)

Anywho, upon disassembling the toe piece of my Pivots...I am stuck. I read that these things were not meant to come apart and this certainly appears to be the case. The rod just will not come out.



I like these bindings, but this is a pretty shitty design.

So...no buying a used set of bindings for spare parts here, eh? No fixing them myself? I am not thrilled with the idea of sending these things out every time I bust a toe wing, especially if they are so prone to breaking. My local ski shop has been dropping the ball left and right lately so I'm not excited about having them send my gear to the manufacturer to get fixed/replaced. But it looks like that's what I'm going to have to do unless anyone has any other suggestions.

Bummed. This has been a major disappointment.

Thanks in advance for any input!
Feb 27 2015 9:10AM
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NMMedia
Posts: 982 - Karma: 1,700
Interesting, Ive never seen this one. Ive only ever had issues with the brakes. I dont really have any input to help you but I'm interested to see what experience other people have with this. I have beat the shit out of my FKSs for over a year now (106 park days last season and Im up to 60 days this season) and have nor really had any issues
Feb 27 2015 10:24AM
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Krampus
Posts: 45 - Karma: 57
TheWingmenInteresting, Ive never seen this one. Ive only ever had issues with the brakes. I dont really have any input to help you but I'm interested to see what experience other people have with this. I have beat the shit out of my FKSs for over a year now (106 park days last season and Im up to 60 days this season) and have nor really had any issues


That's a lotta days on those bindings!

I believe I got 6 days out of my Looks and 4 days out of my FKS's.

That's not good!

The FKS's would have probably broken no matter how many days I had on them though it was a spectacular eatshit haha. The toe piece was rotated almost a full 90 degrees and was wedged on that little rubber pad to keep them from going further. Had to stomp in them pretty hard to get them to snap back.
Feb 27 2015 11:03AM
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NMMedia
Posts: 982 - Karma: 1,700
Yeah man I live 15min from my local hill, we head out there almost every day after class and all weekends
Feb 27 2015 12:08PM
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Krampus
Posts: 45 - Karma: 57
Color me jelly!
Feb 27 2015 2:52PM
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shin-bang
Posts: 4103 - Karma: 7,001
Yea I've had no problems with mine at all. I even have a pair of axials (same toe piece) that I bought used and who knows what they've been through. I've heard of them turning when releasing hard, but never this.
Feb 27 2015 6:36PM
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Krampus
Posts: 45 - Karma: 57
I have only read a couple of accounts of this happening when searching all of the Internets. I'm not an especially large person, 6'3" 185lbs, so that should not be a factor. DIN setting is a niner.

I busted these bindings three days apart from each other! Down to only my beater Line Anthems. The struggle is real, but enough whiney ass woe-is-me BS. Has anyone attempted to fix their toe pieces?
Feb 27 2015 7:53PM
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ggfski42
Posts: 651 - Karma: 700
Man, thats crazy. Ive had so many pairs of px/pivots and ive never managed to break off a "wing". Im NOT reccomending anything... but it's convenient that all px/pivot toe pieces look similar...
Feb 27 2015 8:16PM
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Krampus
Posts: 45 - Karma: 57
Yeah looks like I need to buy some spare bindings of each set and swap them out as I break them.

Upshot here is I'll have plenty of spare brakes should I have any problems with them :)
Feb 28 2015 12:20AM
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japanada
Posts: 13785 - Karma: 1,956
Damn! Do you go all aggro when you try to kick the snow off the toes of your boots? Throw them down violently on the ground?
Feb 28 2015 1:59AM
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Krampus
Posts: 45 - Karma: 57
Meh, I ski the East so I blame the ice...haha

No I guess I'm just hard on shit! What can I say?
Feb 28 2015 4:30AM
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last_tango
Posts: 2635 - Karma: 2,665
This is only the second time I have seen this. Had a guy come into the shop with the same problem but his bindings went through some serious shit over the YEARS. I'm not 100% sure but I think I may have an extra toe hanging around.
Feb 28 2015 10:15AM
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SimplyClean
Posts: 556 - Karma: 1,754
KrampusWas just getting a few days in before I started beating the shit out of them.


Wait so you bought these bindings on purpose to beat the shit out of them?

If you've broken two pairs of FKS already you're just doing something wrong or are unlucky. If you ski at a higher din (8+) just get some 180s instead of the 140s. The toes are super burly and shouldn't ever break on you. Orrr find some used axial's for dirt cheap and use one of those toes - they're the same ones as the FKS 120/140s.
Feb 28 2015 12:26PM
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Caucasian_Asian
Posts: 2447 - Karma: 1,665
It's shitty? But I've seen lots of those break before. I've even seen guys the have sheared their toes clean off.

It's an unfortunate risk with plastic bindings.
Feb 28 2015 1:23PM
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grifrowl
Posts: 200 - Karma: 471
SimplyCleanOrrr find some used axial's for dirt cheap and use one of those toes - they're the same ones as the FKS 120/140s.


Get axial 150 toes.
Feb 28 2015 1:23PM
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Krampus
Posts: 45 - Karma: 57
SimplyCleanWait so you bought these bindings on purpose to beat the shit out of them?

If you've broken two pairs of FKS already you're just doing something wrong or are unlucky. If you ski at a higher din (8+) just get some 180s instead of the 140s. The toes are super burly and shouldn't ever break on you. Orrr find some used axial's for dirt cheap and use one of those toes - they're the same ones as the FKS 120/140s.

I am unlucky. I think you read a little too much into what I said.

By beating the shit out of them, I mean taking them to the park and increasing my chances of a hard release more frequently.

So far both of these bindings have touched ONLY groomers, however I did manage to find a hard release on a groomer and I am clearly to blame! I was trying to air off the edge of a trail while hitting a cut-through and it went to hell. Ended up doing a flip and a couple rolls, it's still a little fuzzy haha.

The pivots are 14's, but the FKS's are 180's both set to 9 DIN and verified by a ski tech.

My beef here isn't that I broke them in the first place. Everything is made to be broken. It's that these wings cannot be repaired...or can they?

I do thank you for the constructive comments though.
Feb 28 2015 5:37PM
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Krampus
Posts: 45 - Karma: 57
grifrowlGet axial 150 toes.


These have the same spacing between the screws and everything?

It sure looks that way to me.
Feb 28 2015 5:39PM
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Krampus
Posts: 45 - Karma: 57
last_tangoThis is only the second time I have seen this. Had a guy come into the shop with the same problem but his bindings went through some serious shit over the YEARS. I'm not 100% sure but I think I may have an extra toe hanging around.


I would gladly pay you some cash money for the spare toe piece should you come across it! Thanks for the reply.
Feb 28 2015 5:41PM
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last_tango
Posts: 2635 - Karma: 2,665
KrampusI would gladly pay you some cash money for the spare toe piece should you come across it! Thanks for the reply.

I did find it but I'm not sure if its going to pass testing but yeah I found it and you should send me a pm
Feb 28 2015 7:37PM
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Krampus
Posts: 45 - Karma: 57
So far two people have come forward with toe pieces to sell me.

This community is fucking awesome, I mean I knew that coming into this place because I've been an observer here for a couple years now I just never had much reason to make an account to post. But I have much respect for people willing to help out some unknown guy who just signed up a few days ago!
Feb 28 2015 9:43PM
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TOAST.
Posts: 7559 - Karma: 37,314

I believe I have some of these toe pieces laying around,slightly different. I could probably ship you one.
Mar 1 2015 6:41PM
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No.Quarter
Posts: 5257 - Karma: 16,966
I'd email Look and see if they can help you out. My experience with them was very helpful when they sent me a whole new heelpiece when I had to cut mine off of my thumb with bolt cutters
Mar 1 2015 7:30PM
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Krampus
Posts: 45 - Karma: 57
JakeSmithI'd email Look and see if they can help you out. My experience with them was very helpful when they sent me a whole new heelpiece when I had to cut mine off of my thumb with bolt cutters


Ouch!
Mar 1 2015 11:12PM
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Krampus
Posts: 45 - Karma: 57
TOAST.

I believe I have some of these toe pieces laying around,slightly different. I could probably ship you one.


I thank you for the offer, but I will hold off for the time being. I have one, maybe two toe pieces shipping to me soon and I will buy a used pair of matching complete bindings for backups.
Mar 1 2015 11:14PM
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rozboon
Posts: 1642 - Karma: 868
KrampusThe pivots are 14's, but the FKS's are 180's both set to 9 DIN and verified by a ski tech.


Wait, what? The FKS180 has a one-piece metal toe, if you broke a wing off that you are some sort of man-beast, I'm surprised your leg/boot/mountain didn't break first.
Mar 2 2015 3:13AM
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Krampus
Posts: 45 - Karma: 57
rozboonWait, what? The FKS180 has a one-piece metal toe, if you broke a wing off that you are some sort of man-beast, I'm surprised your leg/boot/mountain didn't break first.


Uh-oh. I sounded pretty sure of myself but there is a chance I am wrong about this.

This might be a stupid question, but so you think that I would be better off or worse off with a solid piece?

I said that I thought the design was shitty because the plastic piece is an obvious failure point, but maybe that breakaway piece just saved me some pain.

I feel no ill effects from my crash. Maybe I would not be saying the same thing if I had the solid toe piece.

I'll check when I get home but it looks to me like I'm probably wrong and I have 140's.
Mar 2 2015 4:57AM
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Krampus
Posts: 45 - Karma: 57
Yeah, I'm an idiot and a simple Google image search confirmed that. My FKS are 140's.

That being said, looks like they still have those same black plastic pieces that I broke. But I digress...

I have some Pivot toe pieces on the way, but if anyone has any extra FKS 140 toe pieces lying around I'd gladly pay for them as well!

Will be posting in the buying forums soon :)
Mar 2 2015 5:02AM
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rozboon
Posts: 1642 - Karma: 868
That part of the binding is the same on pretty much any Look/Rossi 10-14 DIN binding (PX, Axial2, blah blah blah) as they all use the same toe.

Ask around a few shops and see if they have any wrecked ones... might be worth checking goodwill or whatever and see if they have any as well.
Mar 2 2015 1:50PM
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roach1324
Posts: 215 - Karma: 331
rozboonWait, what? The FKS180 has a one-piece metal toe, if you broke a wing off that you are some sort of man-beast, I'm surprised your leg/boot/mountain didn't break first.


Fks 180's have a metal toe piece but still have plastic wings on the ends to reduce friction that could break in the same way the OP posted

Not really relevant but I like a good circlejerk.
Mar 2 2015 2:24PM
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Krampus
Posts: 45 - Karma: 57
Yeah the plastic vs metal is only so relevant to the discussion, as the failure of the wing tip and the inability to replace those wing tips is where my issues are.

I do feel like plastic is for me. I'm a good skier but I'm kinda sketchy in the park so I feel like plastic is for me. I'm not trying to have a blowout in my knee, I'd rather the binding fail than my ligaments!
Mar 2 2015 2:29PM
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meina222
Posts: 2 - Karma: 10
I had a Rossi FKS toe wing break on me a few days ago. Thread describing the issue with picture:

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/288961-Broken-toe-wing-on-FKS-14-binding

Also in search for repair/replacement toe. Someone on TGR claims the wings can be replaced but who can get the parts and do that?
Mar 4 2015 10:09AM
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Krampus
Posts: 45 - Karma: 57
meina222I had a Rossi FKS toe wing break on me a few days ago. Thread describing the issue with picture:

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/288961-Broken-toe-wing-on-FKS-14-binding

Also in search for repair/replacement toe. Someone on TGR claims the wings can be replaced but who can get the parts and do that?

The wings can be replaced but you basically have to have a whole new toe piece to do it. You can take the screw and spring out of the front of the housing and remove the wings, but they are connected to each other and cannot be separated as far as I can tell. The same style of rod/pin that holds them together holds the black plastic tips in place as well. They are one way it appears, they go in but are not meant to come out.

I think in my case I am going to disassemble the used toe pieces that are being shipped to me and replace just the wings, as the new-to-me toe pieces have many more days of skiing on them than my current toe piece. So I will use my original screws, spring, and housing. I don't see the harm in doing that.

That being said, does that sound like a bad idea to anyone here? Were you in my position would you just slap on the "new" toe piece as a whole instead of mixing and matching parts?
Mar 4 2015 10:42AM
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bdot
Posts: 20 - Karma: 16
i work at a shop, we see this fairly often on rossi,dynastar and look bindings. can happen on any binding with these toes.

two ways to fix, one is to replace both toe wings with the connecting bolt, this is what we do as we get these assemblies from rossi.

the other is to replace just the broken wing, this is a touch trickier but still very straightforward.

If anyone wants pics/video just shoot me a pm, ive got an old toe just chilling on my desk i could open up
Mar 4 2015 12:02PM
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meina222
Posts: 2 - Karma: 10
Good to hear that. However, one needs to have the wings 1st from somewhere. Would Rossi ship them? I contacted their US office earlier via email. No response yet. I'd be happy to pay a reasonable price for a functional toe piece (preferably FKS matching the 6-14 din)

bdoti work at a shop, we see this fairly often on rossi,dynastar and look bindings. can happen on any binding with these toes.

two ways to fix, one is to replace both toe wings with the connecting bolt, this is what we do as we get these assemblies from rossi.

the other is to replace just the broken wing, this is a touch trickier but still very straightforward.

If anyone wants pics/video just shoot me a pm, ive got an old toe just chilling on my desk i could open up
Mar 4 2015 2:58PM
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Krampus
Posts: 45 - Karma: 57
bdoti work at a shop, we see this fairly often on rossi,dynastar and look bindings. can happen on any binding with these toes.

two ways to fix, one is to replace both toe wings with the connecting bolt, this is what we do as we get these assemblies from rossi.

the other is to replace just the broken wing, this is a touch trickier but still very straightforward.

If anyone wants pics/video just shoot me a pm, ive got an old toe just chilling on my desk i could open up

If you could share how to remove those pins it would be greatly appreciated :)

I would be able to scavenge parts from two different broken pairs of tips, and get more mileage out of my spare parts!

I tried prying from the top using a blade/screwdriver where there is slack in the place where the tip had broken...to try to push the pin out of the bottom of the wing enough to grip with a pair of pliers. In the end there was not enough room to get a bite on the end of the pin. Not to mention it looks like there is a knuckle in the middle of the pin that is larger than the diameter of the hole it was driven through, requiring a lot of force and potentially damaging the wing/wallering out the hole.

That's where I got stuck.
Mar 5 2015 7:41AM
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camstain
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 387
I've had the same pair of FKS's for five years I think and they've broken a couple times, just the heel pieces and brakes. Every time they break though I got to my local ski shop, Putnam's, and they just give me a new heel piece right then and there. The funny thing is that I didn't even buy the bindings at this shop. These bindings do have a ridiculous warranty, if you send them to Rossignol/Look they'll fix or replace them. I think taking them apart might void the warranty considering they advise all customers and shops not too. Calling them bomb proof is really just a way of them saying that their bindings are gonna last a lot longer than any other pair.
Mar 5 2015 1:24PM
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Krampus
Posts: 45 - Karma: 57
camstainI've had the same pair of FKS's for five years I think and they've broken a couple times, just the heel pieces and brakes. Every time they break though I got to my local ski shop, Putnam's, and they just give me a new heel piece right then and there. The funny thing is that I didn't even buy the bindings at this shop. These bindings do have a ridiculous warranty, if you send them to Rossignol/Look they'll fix or replace them. I think taking them apart might void the warranty considering they advise all customers and shops not too. Calling them bomb proof is really just a way of them saying that their bindings are gonna last a lot longer than any other pair.


Sign me up!!

Sigh. My local ski shop sucks dog nuts.

I understand the position of not covering disassembled bindings. I will leave my FKS' intact and deal directly with the manufacturer as they were purchased within the last two years and are still covered under warranty. The Pivots are older and will be my bindings that I tinker with, which I don't mind all that much so long as I can get the job done haha. Finding contact info for Look was not fruitful, so that's a motivating factor as well as being able to find some helpful people to sell me their spare toe pieces.

Thanks for the insight.
Mar 5 2015 2:39PM
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Cspliffff
Posts: 158 - Karma: 1,062
One of my friends did this a couple weekends ago! His first time trying a front flip he dug his tails in the ground and blew off both wing tips on each toe piece, he got them fixed at our local shop for the next weekend but unfortunately I have no idea how they where fixed. Good luck OP!
Mar 5 2015 11:25PM
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bdot
Posts: 20 - Karma: 16
sorry it took so long for a reply, couldn't upload to imgur from my phone.





Anyway you just need to pull out this black square plastic piece and the main pin will be able to slide out from the bottom. I have seen some that have a metal piece instead of the plastic piece but they still pop out but with a bit more force
Mar 6 2015 5:30PM
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Krampus
Posts: 45 - Karma: 57
bdotsorry it took so long for a reply, couldn't upload to imgur from my phone.





Anyway you just need to pull out this black square plastic piece and the main pin will be able to slide out from the bottom. I have seen some that have a metal piece instead of the plastic piece but they still pop out but with a bit more force


Oh, great thanks that is very helpful.

I was actually referring to the black plastic tip itself, and the pin that holds that in, but the above fix will go just as far to help get more utility out of my spare parts so I do appreciate i!t :)

I think the black tips (pink in your case) are a one-shot deal. Once they fail it's game over for that wing.
Mar 8 2015 6:50PM
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Krampus
Posts: 45 - Karma: 57
An aside, my extra toe piece came in this weekend and my K2 Maidens will be back up and running tonight thanks to slothking!
Mar 8 2015 6:52PM
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Cspliffff
Posts: 158 - Karma: 1,062
KrampusAn aside, my extra toe piece came in this weekend and my K2 Maidens will be back up and running tonight thanks to slothking!

Glad to hear! Thought I would come back cause I just snapped one of mine off today to hahaha thankfully I got it fixed at the hills shop and could keep shredding
Mar 8 2015 7:24PM
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Krampus
Posts: 45 - Karma: 57
Bindings repaired! Easier than I thought it would be :)

Now the search begins for a spare FKS toe piece. See you folks on the B/S/T forums!
Mar 8 2015 7:34PM
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