Skiing Needs a Thrasher

Mr.BishopI mean NS can easily be this exact place OP wants. Problem is we turned the voice over to the people, and it wasn't as edgy as we thought it would be.

Because NS wants everything skiing related to be unicorns and rainbows and candies.

people who speak up about things they don't like are told that they are salty or unhappy with their lives or threatened to be banned hahah

Mr.SaltyI want skiing hall of meat

@c.o.p_hall_of_meat (I think) on instagram

yeahmonYES!!!

steezy_dogefirst one to make a skiing hall of meat gets all of the karma

http://youtu.be/op382s7kJF8]Hall of meat: http://youtu.be/op382s7kJF8[/url]

jakeordie10/10 would read again.


"newschool" or "freeskiing" will always be moderated by the more mainstream, ordinary disciplines of skiing in ways that make it seem lamer than snowboarding or skateboarding to certain people.....but distancing ourselves from the "less core" aspects of skiing is biting the hand that feeds us.

When JLev says "It's just skiing", the point is that ordinary skiers don't make us lame by extension. They're the white sheep, and our style of skiing makes us the black sheep.....so we gotta do our thing in their presence. If we leave to start our own "black sheep only" flock, it defeats the purpose.

I think Shane was great at that, presenting himself as being an individual and different from ordinary skiers without separating himself from them. Same with Candide's OOTD edits. Being different to most skiers is what defines us.

It is a great idea to take influences, as long as we're not simply claiming some other community's culture as our own because we're envious and insecure. Like rollerbladers did.....and everyone knows how that worked out.

The hidden message in what J says though is that what "just skiing" is lacks any uniform ideals. I'm a firm believer in the message - and hell even that you can enjoy skiing in any way that floats your boat - but I think that we need to work on the side of it where its all about play and fun. Many people will forget what it was like in the '90s - where skiing was all about winning and hard core performance. Sure west coasters had pow, but everywhere else it was just about who was the best.

The main fear is allowing too much of that influence back in. We don't have to bite the hand that feeds us in order to guide things, we just need to set the bar and showcase a fun side that people will want to partake in. Even my own parents loved the message that came out of the New Canadian Air Force dudes and the early 'revolution' in skiing, where it was about using comfortable equipment and simply enjoying your day. The park is a great tool for kids to have fun on the east coast, and I worry that we're falling too much back into what caused snowboarding to break away so far.

Snowboarding is fun because that is the core of everything. Racers don't dictate the best snowboards by who wins the most - and even you could argue that the Olympics has a dramatically blunted effect on the overall industry - its dictated by those just going out riding every day.

We could use more of that influence. We don't have to go all the way to being the angry 'fuck you all if you're not with us' type people, but I do think the message of enjoyment of the sport and free structure could use a solid kick in the ass.

Skiing really did suck in the '90s. I only didn't start snowboarding because I was so bad at it, but I wanted to as I was standing there in a skin suit bashing gates while all these dudes were listening to punk rock and hitting jumps.

Mr.BishopThe hidden message in what J says though is that what "just skiing" is lacks any uniform ideals. I'm a firm believer in the message - and hell even that you can enjoy skiing in any way that floats your boat - but I think that we need to work on the side of it where its all about play and fun. Many people will forget what it was like in the '90s - where skiing was all about winning and hard core performance. Sure west coasters had pow, but everywhere else it was just about who was the best.

The main fear is allowing too much of that influence back in. We don't have to bite the hand that feeds us in order to guide things, we just need to set the bar and showcase a fun side that people will want to partake in. Even my own parents loved the message that came out of the New Canadian Air Force dudes and the early 'revolution' in skiing, where it was about using comfortable equipment and simply enjoying your day. The park is a great tool for kids to have fun on the east coast, and I worry that we're falling too much back into what caused snowboarding to break away so far.

Snowboarding is fun because that is the core of everything. Racers don't dictate the best snowboards by who wins the most - and even you could argue that the Olympics has a dramatically blunted effect on the overall industry - its dictated by those just going out riding every day.

We could use more of that influence. We don't have to go all the way to being the angry 'fuck you all if you're not with us' type people, but I do think the message of enjoyment of the sport and free structure could use a solid kick in the ass.

Skiing really did suck in the '90s. I only didn't start snowboarding because I was so bad at it, but I wanted to as I was standing there in a skin suit bashing gates while all these dudes were listening to punk rock and hitting jumps.

I don't understand why people get so hung up on whether skiing as a sport is cool. What effect does it have on you and your buddies? None of us are getting laid and none of us are making money from sliding around on sticks so what do we have to loose? Skiing is a whale of a time and nothing is going to change that. Even back in the 90's in the skiing dark ages when skiing "wasn't fun" there were still people going out every day and having a great time on their ski planks. Even racing is pretty fun because otherwise no one would do it, there are probably only 20 people in the world making decent money off ski racing.

Skiing has been around for thousands of years because its the fastest and most efficient way to travel across snow that is the way it will always be.

Is park sustainable? maybe, but probably not. As cultural preferences change, skiing will probably fall into obscurity, but there will always be people skiing and having a good time to boot.

Snowboarding and skateboarding are both fads that will eventually fade away as new things are invented. Skis are the truth they have survived the test of time because the simply make sense, as long there is snow on our planet people will be skiing and that's ok with me

No mag can compare to thrasher.

roach1324Skiing is a whale of a time and nothing is going to change that. Even back in the 90's in the skiing dark ages when skiing "wasn't fun" there were still people going out every day and having a great time on their ski planks. Even racing is pretty fun because otherwise no one would do it, there are probably only 20 people in the world making decent money off ski racing.

Trust me man, I was there. No freestyle, no moguls allowed at the resort and if your skis left the snow you got your pass clipped. I liked it when I was younger, but my coaches all yelled at me if I didn't take racing seriously enough to win the Olympics. There was no people my age just skiing around, so you either raced or you didn't do shit. This is why Snowboarding got popular.

Sure I agree with you philosophically that it should be fun, but when we allow it to become too much of a competitive thing, the pressures on young people can shift from having fun with your friends to trying to be the next gold medal olympian.

I lived through it. It sucked.

I've actually been thinking about this for a long time. I used to be very in to the idea of another Thrasher, and for the most part I still am. I used to also think that the Skateboarding sales model was actually good for skiing, but those times have changed.

There are two reasons for this:

1. Sites like NS already allow just about anyone to say whatever they want about athletes/sponsors/industry stuff in general. This is great for people who actually care about skiing as an industry. What happens on this site is often enough to provide more than ample content about relatively easy to find info--everything an brand or athlete does is posted though digital channels and is then congregated here. It's great for industry-sensitive perspectives like Steve Stepp, Totally Trevor, and any other NS phenomenon. By nature of it's users, NS sort of automatically dictates what is cool. The drawback to this formula is that it makes it hard to justify paying for well researched and thoughtfully produced content when a random post with underboob sees more hits.

2. Outside of the relatively small, dedicated Freeskiing community the majority of the world has no idea what is going on in skiing, much less "freeskiing." It's not that they don't find skiing cool, but They See Me Trollin' doesn't make sense unless you're already in on the joke. Sports like skateboarding have just a touch of room for a magazine like Thrasher, because skateboards are sold at every department store, and if a kid skates long enough they'll find a violent dislike for shitty skateboards quickly enough. Thrasher is there to console those poor souls in St. Louis, MO. where skiing wasn't really an option in the first place.

The other end of skiing magazines comes from the old standards like SKI. This magazine serves an entirely different demographic who might love skiing, but definitely see it as an excess. This mentality serves skiing especially well when it's en vogue, but on years when someone like Lance Armstrong dopes his way through a tour, those people are going to buy bikes.

So what does skiing need? I think the answer probably lies in a different voice altogether. The biggest reason for this is that maybe, just maybe, skiing relies on people being aware of it more than skateboarding, because it might be warming up. There is a need for well informed journalism that isn't so industry specific, and maybe a bit more skier-centric because to keep our sport around we need new people to fall in love with it and then keep caring about it. That doesn't mean going full Nat Geo on anyone, but it certainly means less interviews about what people think about the ski industry. But maybe that's just me.

-Gavin, someone who voluntarily makes next to no money for the sake of ski journalism.

bikerockerSo what does skiing need? I think the answer probably lies in a different voice altogether. The biggest reason for this is that maybe, just maybe, skiing relies on people being aware of it more than skateboarding, because it might be warming up. There is a need for well informed journalism that isn't so industry specific, and maybe a bit more skier-centric because to keep our sport around we need new people to fall in love with it and then keep caring about it. That doesn't mean going full Nat Geo on anyone, but it certainly means less interviews about what people think about the ski industry. But maybe that's just me.

-Gavin, someone who voluntarily makes next to no money for the sake of ski journalism.

Dude you should totally join the ranks of our journalists. Even if its nothing more than some fresh perspective, I think we're working to build a pretty rad and diverse set of contributors. Together we can develop a new voice.

pussyfooterYou're missing the key factor between skiing and skateboarding: money.

Bullshit. Money colludes things a lot of the time... makes shit stale and mainstream. Case in point is the olympics and FIFA or... FIS or whoever, getting their hands on slope/pipe events.

We have a unique situation here with NS that if a member steps up and starts providing awesome content they can actually make a name for themselves and some notoriety within the entirety of the ski industry Remember, even though people don't like to admit it, they go on NS... a lot, actually - even pros and industry guys take note of what happens here.

bikerocker-Gavin, someone who voluntarily makes next to no money for the sake of ski journalism.

This was funny since as I was reading your post I thought about suggesting BombSnow to you, but it seems like you actually write for them haha!
Also for OP I think BroBomb.com does a good job with the more "controversial... non-fuck giving" attitude

But one of the biggest problems with ski journalism (and many people have raised this) is that it is either based in promoting brands and products, or talking about the industry like you said.
There is nothing wrong with either, but it can get tiring for sure.

This thread pretty much sums up why I love this site. This site allows everyone from little jimmy gapper to Tommy Wallfish to have a say on what skiing is or what they would like to see. You have pros dropping content and creating threads, you have Andy Parry inviting everyone who can read to come spend the day skiing with him, and you have kids who have never clipped into a set of bindings before asking how it is all done.....In the same place.

This place lets you see what skiing can be, and if you want to build on to that idea, you can create it and share it and let everyone else see what it can do and the process continues.

Mr.BishopIsn't that what road trip challenge is supposed to be?

Except that was extremely tame and pretty boring. Meanwhile KOTR has people pouring beer down their butt holes when its not even a challenge.
https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/756840/King-of-the-Road-2014--Episode-2

When I think of skateboarding or snowboarding I immediately go to the freestyle aspect of it, I don't think skiing is there yet because there are racers, and just people who just go down the slope. Of course snowboarding has some of that but not like skiing. With skateboarding there isn't one aspect of it that isn't a kind of freestyle. I think once skiing got the mostly freestyle look it could get the attention it finally deserves.

for better or worse, Newschoolers is the Thrasher for skiers ... the difference being that it comes in a digital format only.

I love skiing, I really do but it will never be like skateboarding.

zbphotoExcept that was extremely tame and pretty boring. Meanwhile KOTR has people pouring beer down their butt holes when its not even a challenge.
https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/756840/King-of-the-Road-2014--Episode-2

Wow yeah, RTC really managed to miss the boat on that vibe. Likely the sponsors wouldn't have wanted their athletes associated with that type of image. That is one thing on the money issue that hurts us - skate, snow, etc. companies will actually put sponsorship to this kind of content. Very few will in skiing.

That is funny as shit though. I can see why RTC doesn't capture the gnarly vibe of that.

That would be sick to have something like that in skiing. Hood crew vs. LaFa or some shit like that.

Oh man this just home so hard when I saw this. Skier Trash was originally mean't and headed for being a ski mag who's main influence was Thrasher. And not because we are skaters (We're 100% Skiers) but because we weren't inspired by and what what what.. I mean INSPIRED!!!! (all caps bitch) anyways are influences we're outside of skiing for various reasons except for GLEN PLAKE, any local scene/backyard/, and some random skiers and Levinthal. Anyone paying attention back then saw our site representative of this where we had things such as "Doglines" (https://www.newschoolers.com/forum/thread/743144/Skier-Trash-Most-Creative-Dogline-Contest) which has evolved into everyone's 3 tricks in 10 sec thing, We had "Coreshot" posting reader/fan am shots, etc. 8BALL and short opinion column type deal (https://instagram.com/p/pBA0eMFktR/?modal=true). in which there would be (and still is) things like No Censorship, No gear-queer guides, No resort guides (Basically all the dumb shit current ski mags do. And a big Fuck You! to all current ski mags that I've seen.) We reached out from the get go to interview people like Andy Parry, Real Skifi, etc. No some lame ass x-games fool. We had contests - think the first one we gave away a Bloom jacket for the best backyard setup.

We were not And Still do not promote ski resorts. and if we're skiing one, we poached (and the skiing is always rad just not the bs). Best day I had that year was opening up all the pics of kids backyards. WHY? - because backyards are Free, you can do whatever the fuck you want, there are no $8 burgers or pussy #FuckVail speeding tickets. Its cheaper and more accessible. Make skiing more affordable and accessible and appealing to the masses. More skiers, more money, more flavor, more skiers from different walks of life, more style....Like it was said early I think by Bishop. lots of skiers want to be lame. Or they grow up in these ritzy resorts and they just dont have life experience or perspective to draw from (and for the record we love all skiers) then lots of these people and family own shop and companies and win medal and they are lame as hell or they dont care about INCLUSION. they about exclusion. Lots of the ski industry is. Trust me. But that what we are about and hopefully all you guys..INCLUSION!

when Bishop asked if ST would help with TAFT - well fuck yea (http://skiertrash.com/blogs/ski-zine/18687691-st-gets-in-the-van-for-newschoolers-tell-a-friend-tour-canaan-valley-wv-stop-article-by-bob). Things like TAFT and Parry are good for skiing NOT fuck lame ass Freeskier roadtrip bullshit (And until its done proper dont do it. KOTR makes skiers look like pussys). And anyone who ever pays attention, when you run into skiers like Parry or Plake or any of the ST crew....everyone is more than happy to hangout and ski with EVERYONE skiing. Can't speak for everyone but Skier Trash has no time for any cool kid shit. We here for the skiing right and to hangout with skiers. Side Note: So fuck all brands who think theyre too good for the local homies.

And while the ski industry may not always have the edge, remember we have something better, skiing for us, has always had GLEN PLAKE. to put it into perspective Jay Adams was like the Glen Plake of skating. Not only the greatest skier of all time for so many reasons hes the real deal out fighting the good fight for all skiers, shit that the average skier or kid on NS wont ever know (ex: Ive seen him yelling, arguing, fighting against shit that would be bad for skiing with big wigs, etc for you guys) God bless him.

Remember, like Bishop said, most important thing in this thread "BE THE CHANGE". thats the only way things will be however you want them to be. doesn't necessarily mean everyone should start a company but things as simple as putting your $ and support with brand you see that change in and not just saying oh well it doesnt matter, cause it mot def does!!

blah blah beer time! Fuck you guys, go skiin or skip more school or somethang. And @ roach1324 right on.

Stay Low-Pro™
-Bob (Skier Trash)

https://vimeo.com/15972570

SKIER_TRASHRemember, like Bishop said, most important thing in this thread "BE THE CHANGE". thats the only way things will be however you want them to be. doesn't necessarily mean everyone should start a company but things as simple as putting your $ and support with brand you see that change in and not just saying oh well it doesnt matter, cause it mot def does!!

Welp, truths have been spit, time to do something about it

Newschoolers Road Trip Challenge with some crews like mole squad, hoodcrew, LaFa, GGW, etc

that would be dope. Let me write the challenge book

SKIER_TRASHOh man this just home so hard when I saw this. Skier Trash was originally mean't and headed for being a ski mag who's main influence was Thrasher. And not because we are skaters (We're 100% Skiers) but because we weren't inspired by and what what what.. I mean INSPIRED!!!! (all caps bitch) anyways are influences we're outside of skiing for various reasons except for GLEN PLAKE, any local scene/backyard/, and some random skiers and Levinthal. Anyone paying attention back then saw our site representative of this where we had things such as "Doglines" (https://www.newschoolers.com/forum/thread/743144/Skier-Trash-Most-Creative-Dogline-Contest) which has evolved into everyone's 3 tricks in 10 sec thing, We had "Coreshot" posting reader/fan am shots, etc. 8BALL and short opinion column type deal (https://instagram.com/p/pBA0eMFktR/?modal=true). in which there would be (and still is) things like No Censorship, No gear-queer guides, No resort guides (Basically all the dumb shit current ski mags do. And a big Fuck You! to all current ski mags that I've seen.) We reached out from the get go to interview people like Andy Parry, Real Skifi, etc. No some lame ass x-games fool. We had contests - think the first one we gave away a Bloom jacket for the best backyard setup.

We were not And Still do not promote ski resorts. and if we're skiing one, we poached (and the skiing is always rad just not the bs). Best day I had that year was opening up all the pics of kids backyards. WHY? - because backyards are Free, you can do whatever the fuck you want, there are no $8 burgers or pussy #FuckVail speeding tickets. Its cheaper and more accessible. Make skiing more affordable and accessible and appealing to the masses. More skiers, more money, more flavor, more skiers from different walks of life, more style....Like it was said early I think by Bishop. lots of skiers want to be lame. Or they grow up in these ritzy resorts and they just dont have life experience or perspective to draw from (and for the record we love all skiers) then lots of these people and family own shop and companies and win medal and they are lame as hell or they dont care about INCLUSION. they about exclusion. Lots of the ski industry is. Trust me. But that what we are about and hopefully all you guys..INCLUSION!

when Bishop asked if ST would help with TAFT - well fuck yea (http://skiertrash.com/blogs/ski-zine/18687691-st-gets-in-the-van-for-newschoolers-tell-a-friend-tour-canaan-valley-wv-stop-article-by-bob). Things like TAFT and Parry are good for skiing NOT fuck lame ass Freeskier roadtrip bullshit (And until its done proper dont do it. KOTR makes skiers look like pussys). And anyone who ever pays attention, when you run into skiers like Parry or Plake or any of the ST crew....everyone is more than happy to hangout and ski with EVERYONE skiing. Can't speak for everyone but Skier Trash has no time for any cool kid shit. We here for the skiing right and to hangout with skiers. Side Note: So fuck all brands who think theyre too good for the local homies.

And while the ski industry may not always have the edge, remember we have something better, skiing for us, has always had GLEN PLAKE. to put it into perspective Jay Adams was like the Glen Plake of skating. Not only the greatest skier of all time for so many reasons hes the real deal out fighting the good fight for all skiers, shit that the average skier or kid on NS wont ever know (ex: Ive seen him yelling, arguing, fighting against shit that would be bad for skiing with big wigs, etc for you guys) God bless him.

Remember, like Bishop said, most important thing in this thread "BE THE CHANGE". thats the only way things will be however you want them to be. doesn't necessarily mean everyone should start a company but things as simple as putting your $ and support with brand you see that change in and not just saying oh well it doesnt matter, cause it mot def does!!

blah blah beer time! Fuck you guys, go skiin or skip more school or somethang. And @ roach1324 right on.

Stay Low-Pro™
-Bob (Skier Trash)

https://vimeo.com/15972570

I love you guys.

**This post was edited on Feb 20th 2015 at 12:34:24am

butteredpretzelNewschoolers Road Trip Challenge with some crews like mole squad, hoodcrew, LaFa, GGW, etc

that would be dope. Let me write the challenge book

Man, lets fucking do it.

Mr.BishopMan, lets fucking do it.

This is the kind of thing that I honestly think we could pull off right now with close to zero funding, give it some thought though, get it organized, get some support and I have no doubt we could pull of something more legit and more real that the RTC. The key is making sure it's unique. NS has the athletes and the content producers, all we need is a little bit of direction and organization which I am seeing grow every day.

cydwhitThis is the kind of thing that I honestly think we could pull off right now with close to zero funding, give it some thought though, get it organized, get some support and I have no doubt we could pull of something more legit and more real that the RTC. The key is making sure it's unique. NS has the athletes and the content producers, all we need is a little bit of direction and organization which I am seeing grow every day.

Forget RTC. They do their own thing, no need to even compare this to that. We're just talking about getting a couple of badass crews in a van and filming some shit. You're right, minimal budget, a sprinkle of support and we could have some fun with it...

We already had one #Freeze #RIP

We have like 5 pages of challenges saved on a word doc, been talking about doing this. moneys are nice

the real issue lies in the roots of skiing. skating started out as dirty grungy sport by people who didn't give a fuck and did what they thought was rad like the dog town day. skiing on the other hand started out as a preppy sport that only the wealthy could afford and everything had to be glam and proper. although skiing has gotten way sicker with the evolution of free ride and park it still doesn't have that dirty recklessness that thrasher provides

roach1324Snowboarding and skateboarding are both fads that will eventually fade away as new things are invented. Skis are the truth they have survived the test of time because the simply make sense, as long there is snow on our planet people will be skiing and that's ok with me

Skateboarding makes sense as a mode of transport on concrete that combines with public transport (rollerblading and bicycles not as easily.) There's always that niche there that won't die and it's not expensive for people who cannot or won't drive cars. Personally, I like the look of solo-wheels.

Longboarding I suppose is the evolution of skateboarding-as-transport.

There's a movie called Thrashin' (1986)..
skiing needs a Thrashin'..
https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/756966/Thrashin--39--Trailer

EkisWe need more this kinda videos and films, G.N.A.R
https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/756763/G-N-A-R-

Gnar is cool but there is no street cred in being a naked dude, which this encourages. Skiing needs to put some clothes on and be less gay if we wanna be anything like skateboarding.

O.G.brynSKIthe real issue lies in the roots of skiing. skating started out as dirty grungy sport by people who didn't give a fuck and did what they thought was rad like the dog town day. skiing on the other hand started out as a preppy sport that only the wealthy could afford and everything had to be glam and proper. although skiing has gotten way sicker with the evolution of free ride and park it still doesn't have that dirty recklessness that thrasher provides

There's hella dirty grungy ski bums from back in the day, but yeah I get what you mean the cultures will never be similar. It's the accessibility of skateboarding, and the way that it becomes part of your normal everyday life. You go to school, go to work, go session, go eat, go to a show, and you're skateboarding the whole time.....if you live in a big city like LA NY SF you start needing it to have a life.

Skiing is more of a getaway from all that, unless you grew up in one of like half a dozen tiny towns in the middle of nowhere.

This is so lame...

Anders_FWe have like 5 pages of challenges saved on a word doc, been talking about doing this. moneys are nice

HMU

Alex_GGnar is cool but there is no street cred in being a naked dude, which this encourages. Skiing needs to put some clothes on and be less gay if we wanna be anything like skateboarding.

i feel like the entire point of that movie went right over your head. skiing is fun, do it for fun. dont care what others think about it, and dont take it so seriously.

-emile-Because NS wants everything skiing related to be unicorns and rainbows and candies.

people who speak up about things they don't like are told that they are salty or unhappy with their lives or threatened to be banned hahah

I'd like to see bishop answer this

Totally agree with this thread

So much going on in this thread, lets start to get some money together to rent some vans and gas expenses. We can all throw 5 if you sticky the kickstarter at the top of ski gabber

This is going places.

It's not about being like skateboarding though. Don't copy paste your influences.

DingoSeanBullshit. Money colludes things a lot of the time... makes shit stale and mainstream. Case in point is the olympics and FIFA or... FIS or whoever, getting their hands on slope/pipe events.

We have a unique situation here with NS that if a member steps up and starts providing awesome content they can actually make a name for themselves and some notoriety within the entirety of the ski industry Remember, even though people don't like to admit it, they go on NS... a lot, actually - even pros and industry guys take note of what happens here.

I agree with what you're saying to a point, but cool things need money too. I'd love to do way more cool shit in skiing, but I can afford to. Because of this I have a job, I ski in my free time and barely film anymore. CREAM

JOYSTICK*This is going places.

It's not about being like skateboarding though. Don't copy paste your influences.

get inspired by them, make it different, do it your own way

pussyfooterI agree with what you're saying to a point, but cool things need money too. I'd love to do way more cool shit in skiing, but I can afford to. Because of this I have a job, I ski in my free time and barely film anymore. CREAM

I never said money wasn't needed... I said BIG money wasn't needed - the kind Evan was talking about that comes with skateboarding, it just isn't required. Skiing is fine without that shit, and it has plenty of money behind it as it is.

I feel the biggest difference between those sports is accessibility and world reach. Skiing is something you can only do if you live in certain places where it snows. Skateboards are cheap. Skiing is not. You can live in a third world country, or at least a place with third world areas (namely brazil or southeast asia or central america) and become awesome at skateboarding. You don't need to have a dad who did it, and a 4x4 vehicle, and a 700$ season pass.

So by all of that nature, skiing is like hockey, and skateboarding is like basketball or soccer. One will always lag behind the others in world outreach, but the money and the followers are still plenty large enough for both.