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Ski-nsecurities

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S.M.G
Posts: 446 - Karma: 1,450
Alright, since I talked big shit in Mingg's thread, I'll back it up in my own.

The X games this year have catalyzed a lot of talk at Freeskier Magazine and in NSG about why we ladies haven't been progressing. However, we haven't started a dialogue amongst ourselves, the working class of women's skiing so to speak. Most of us here aren't pro or competing at a serious level, so we can't speak to the effect of the competition scene, but we can talk about our own progression.

Hence, the name of the thread: Ski-nsecurities (Ski + insecurity)

What are your skiing insecurities? What stops you from throwing new tricks? What on-hill and off-hill factors deter your skiing? What is your experience with filming, and why aren't there more edits coming from us ladies?

Let's talk about the pressure we get from the boys, what prevents us from being at the level of skiing/filming we're capable of, and how to help each other be the best ski community we can be.
Feb 2 2015 11:15AM
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Cyanicenine
Posts: 966 - Karma: 2,294
I didn't start skiing until I was 26, so any hopes and dreams of pro have never come into the picture. Most of the ladies I know in the park also started much older then their male counterparts. Once you've accepted that you won't be pro it's really hard to justify taking excessive risks that can turn into lifelong nagging injuries.

As for external factors impeding my progress, the number 1 thing right now is the lack of snow in the PNW, making my local mountains have few features with janky snow conditions. Number 2 would be lack of access to a rope tow park, so I can't just session the same feature over and over like I see a lot of the park skiers able to. If I want to do this I have to hike, which just feels inefficient, and a waste of potential vert. Lastly when our season is actually good here it snows enough that the parks generally shut down sometimes for days at a time because all the features get buried.

Here is the real deal. Most of the people I've seen that throw down in park have had access to coaching and training facilities. If you have access to those kind of resources you can progress insanely fast. For example I knew a kid that would hardcore windmill off all the jumps, was very sloppy in the air, pretty much sucked. He spent a summer at windells and came back the next season able to throw clean 540's off the large jumps that he could barely even straight air the prior season. Great for him, but a little depressing to know that other kids are working just as hard, but don't have the same kind of resources to fast track their progress like that. Sure you could try and learn via the "fuck it and huck it" methodology but you are rolling the dice for a potential season ender. Having the ability to throw something into a foam pit or water ramp and get it dialed there before you ever throw it on snow is an insane advantage.
Feb 2 2015 5:30PM
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S.M.G
Posts: 446 - Karma: 1,450
CyanicenineHere is the real deal.


Its undeniable that professional coaching an facilities make a huge impact, but there are boys here without those resources that put out decent edits between once a season and once a week. Obviously there's a biological aspect, they're simply stronger, but that does not account for how much further behind we are than in most sports. Do we just not want it bad enough?

Why aren't we out there building jibs and trying to get shots of everything we do?
Feb 2 2015 5:57PM
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Cyanicenine
Posts: 966 - Karma: 2,294
I think the age thing that I mentioned is a huge part. I see ton's of little 8 year old boys in the park, some of them are already throwing down big tricks. I don't ever see little 8 year old girls. The handful of girls I do occasionally see in the park are already in their late teens. These boys by the time they hit their teens already have a whole network of park skiers built up that they can go do ubran sessions and filming with. Meanwhile it seems like the girls are only just testing the waters at that age.

Maybe we can get a consensus on this here in Lady Gabber. How old were you when you first started park skiing? And I don't mean you fifty fiftied a box once one season, but you actually tried to progress. For me it wasn't until I was 28.
Feb 2 2015 6:42PM
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ModMommy
Posts: 10834 - Karma: 57,463
S.M.GWhy aren't we out there building jibs and trying to get shots of everything we do?


My friends and I go out and build stuff, I'm just usually too stoked/not good enough to really want to be filmed.
Feb 2 2015 6:43PM
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erica
Posts: 3450 - Karma: 24,088
I'm a mediocre at best park skier, I do it because it's all that's available in Minnesota. We don't get powder or have steeps and cliffs to drop.

I love going fast and finding tranny and hucking cliffs, but the thing is I don't get out west a lot, and I'm bad at making filming a priority when I just want to have fun.


I'll touch more on how I feel about women and progression later. but that's my .02 for now. I do think this discussion is really important though.
Feb 2 2015 6:50PM
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S.M.G
Posts: 446 - Karma: 1,450
CyanicenineThese boys by the time they hit their teens already have a whole network of park skiers built up that they can go do ubran sessions and filming with. Meanwhile it seems like the girls are only just testing the waters at that age.


THIS. That makes so much sense. In my last post I was gonna comment on how the group dynamic makes a huge difference in progression. I never see any all girl crews mobbing around. I always end up being the token girl in the crew and I feel like they think filming me is a waste of time compared to the shots they could be getting of the guys.

I've been skiing since 3 or 4 but I only started challenging myself in the park at like 16. I'm 18 now.
Feb 2 2015 6:59PM
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katrina
Posts: 2395 - Karma: 15,198
I have spent HOURS discussing this with Bishop - what are the barriers to women getting into the game so to speak? If those barriers are identified than those of us who do have some pull can put our efforts where they count.

I know many people who don't personally know me have mixed opinions on me; that aside, I have been trying to formulate a plan with Bishop to get more girls getting more tricks, getting more stoked, have more fun, and getting more content - inside and outside of competition. Numerous ideas have been thrown around including video contests focused on style, creativity, and personality to get cameras or other equipment girls need to progress in whatever they see as their path in skiing - whether it is competing or filming or just dicking around with your friends and showing everyone how much fun you are having (my personal favorite).

I coach women's skiing and skateboarding, and helping girls who are on the cusp of women's freeski is a personal mission of mine, even if people perceive my intents to be different. My favorite edits and content from girls are the ones that make you go 'shit i want to do that so bad that looks so fun and weird!'

For me personally it was getting a hold of a camera and editing software that was my big barrier, it is so hard to convince a dude with a 60D to point his camera at you when you are learning your first 270 off when all the guys are hucking doubles in big line.

One thought I had was holding a women's version of 'Tell A Friend Tour' to go to weird little resorts and show girls that YES it is possible to get into, YES it is fun, and YES you can do it too.

I don't know, I have spent a tremendous amount of time thinking about this, but I am stoked to hear others are feeling the same way.
Feb 2 2015 7:59PM
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erica
Posts: 3450 - Karma: 24,088
KatrinaOne thought I had was holding a women's version of 'Tell A Friend Tour' to go to weird little resorts and show girls that YES it is possible to get into, YES it is fun, and YES you can do it too.

I don't know, I have spent a tremendous amount of time thinking about this, but I am stoked to hear others are feeling the same way.


this is gold. I'm coming.
Feb 2 2015 8:29PM
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taylor_gang
Posts: 309 - Karma: 260
nsfairythis is gold. I'm coming.


Absolutely.

For me, I get too comfortable doing thing same tricks on things. When I try something new, I would PAY for nobody to be there... not really but you get the point....Like damn, let me hike and fall a hundred times before there's a line of people waiting behind and in front of me.
Feb 2 2015 9:11PM
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snophie
Posts: 99 - Karma: 202
S.M.GI never see any all girl crews mobbing around. I always end up being the token girl in the crew and I feel like they think filming me is a waste of time compared to the shots they could be getting of the guys.

I've been skiing since 3 or 4 but I only started challenging myself in the park at like 16. I'm 18 now.



I can relate completely!! I've been skiing since i could walk but felt too nervous to actually try progress in the park until last year (21 years old). It was almost disappointing how easy improving was once i started trying new trick and hitting bigger features.

But i still struggle with asking someone to film. Even for the sake of improving by looking back on what i was doing wrong
Feb 2 2015 9:42PM
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S.M.G
Posts: 446 - Karma: 1,450
KatrinaNumerous ideas have been thrown around including video contests focused on style, creativity, and personality to get cameras or other equipment girls need to progress in whatever they see as their path in skiing - whether it is competing or filming or just dicking around with your friends and showing everyone how much fun you are having (my personal favorite).


Erica, Sammi, make this happen.
Feb 2 2015 9:54PM
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snophie
Posts: 99 - Karma: 202
Why women's freeskiing isn't as progressive as guys in my opinion (agreeing with many other posts above):

- Lack of support/encouragement: Gender stereotyping parents who discourage females as kids in the park.

- The kid complex (being super reckless and not scared as a kid): By default, not being around the park when this fearlessness exists, thus never experimenting in the park at an early age.

- Ingrained self consciousness: NEVER wanting others to see us fail (fall) when learning new tricks or hitting new features.
(this is why i struggle having a friend or another person coach me because i'm embarrassed and feel pressured and vulnerable) I landed my first 3 in a semi whiteout when my friends weren't around

- Position of the park: Guys seem to thrive on having random spectators, so it seems logical for them to have the park positioned under or very near a chairlift (also easier to to short park laps around a shorter lift) however, i severely dislike that people around are watching (for the above reasons)

- No starting options/go to people: lack of female friends who would be keen to try park
(note: for me, i needed them to be of equal skiing ability because i feared and was super discouraged when taking a gaper friend to the park and they progress faster than me).

- Features: Park features available can be woeful for learners. there needs to be small medium and large features.. i get stuck learning new tricks if there isn't a well build intermediate jump or beginners rail.

- Always being the one stuck behind the camera filming the guys/ never feeling adequate enough to be filmed as we compare to the guys and so not getting to watch our mistakes and learn from them.

-Expression: Nowhere to discuss skiing (like we are now), so glad we have lady gabber now!
Feb 2 2015 10:26PM
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be.kill
Posts: 101 - Karma: 149
I think the big thing for me personally is not having anyone to push me. When I first started park skiing when I was 13/14 none of my friends would do it so it would just be me out there hiking features solo over and over but I had no one to give me feedback. When I finally got people to ski with they're all guys and so when I can't get down the same tricks as them I guess I feel okay being complacent and not trying my hardest due to the fact that I'm a girl. Which is a huuuuge cop out and I think the underlying problem is most likely my fear of getting hurt when trying something new. Basically I need to stop being a puss and send it.
Feb 3 2015 12:41AM
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skiara.
Posts: 670 - Karma: 1,710
I've been really struggling this season and my mind has not been in a great place when I'm in the park. I don't really give a shit if guys see me falling or anything because everyone does it and whatnot. I have AMAZING support from my boyfriend who will make me hike a rail I really want to hit and he won't let me leave until I do it. I just started park skiing last season at age 21 and got solo hooked. I was a ski racer in high school and had NO fear. I was very different from the rest of the chicks on the team who were seriously so intimidated by the hills we were skiing and from falling (I'm from Michigan, nothing intimidating there) and I was always going all out and crashed a lot and HARD. I wanted to ski park but didn't have anyone I knew to teach me the basics but I was always hitting jumps and boxes (not well fyi) so finally having someone to push me does help, but I still have a lot of issues when it comes to park skiing. Ive seemed to lose my no fear mindset that I had in high school. Whenever I look at something new, I always immediately picture what could go wrong and that just stays in my head and I can't seem to look past it. Ill be terrified to hit a rail simply because I don't like how much of it is sticking up out of the lip (pathetic I know). My resort also has an awful park. I live in Steamboat Springs, CO now and its a struggle to progress in the park because of our builds. All our features are either really easy ass boxes or super difficult features. So thats my ski insecurity :(
Feb 3 2015 10:17PM
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katrina
Posts: 2395 - Karma: 15,198
__skiaraMy resort also has an awful park. I live in Steamboat Springs, CO now


that park for sure sucks, but does your pass work at copper? lets link up sometime!
Feb 3 2015 10:26PM
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Cyanicenine
Posts: 966 - Karma: 2,294
All our features are either really easy ass boxes or super difficult features. So thats my ski insecurity :(


I really feel like this is a chronic problem at a lot of parks. Not very many mid level progression features. It's either completely newbie features that aren't even worth hitting, or high consequence scary huge features, with very little in between.

Jumps are especially bad about this, at my mountain there is a really shitty 3 foot hip type "jump" with pretty much no transition. Aaaaand the next jump up from that is 20+ foot step up.
Feb 3 2015 10:28PM
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el_mn_op
Posts: 577 - Karma: 1,175
Earlier in the year, I was definitely afraid to ask guys to film me. Or even if they offered, I would turn them down because I didn't want to waste their time/battery/memory card space on my inconsistent tricks, but I've since gotten over that. I'm lucky that the guys I ski with are super supportive and make me feel really good about even the mediocore stuff I throw down.

Now, my biggest worries are hurting myself and breaking my skis. If either of these things happens, my season is screwed.
Feb 4 2015 7:14PM
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Shelbsshreds
Posts: 67 - Karma: 195
My biggest ski-nsecurity is probably me not looking thug enough.. No jk lol. I'd say riding switch to features. I don't know why its just sketch. The only thing that stops me from throwing new tricks is me.. And my job because I usually work AM shifts on park crew. Like I've been telling myself I'll try a backflip and then I wait and wait and wait and then psych myself out. Or I'll be super tired from work.. or I'll wait when for it to be too close to when I have to work if its PM. It makes me so mad that I keep doing that. The only thing that deters me from skiing is my mom.. Because she thinks I have an obsession and gets really mad that I am there every day on weekends while I'm still in high school lol. But I can't help it. Its a passion. I think there aren't more edits coming from us ladies because there are not as many of us!
The best advice I can give to any of the ski ladies is not not care about what others think about you.. Have fun, and improve. All good skier fall. And if they don't fall it means they aren't trying to improve. Not every skier tries.
Feb 4 2015 7:40PM
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nattytokes
Posts: 57 - Karma: 318
I skied a few times growing up, but didn't start hitting the slopes every day until I was 22. I didn't hit a rail until I was 25. I live in Dillon, CO now and part of the reason why I moved here was in the hopes I could recruit more chicks to join Lost Girls Tribe (a crew my friends and I started on Mt. Hood in OR).

I have had some good days and some bad days, and I've been struggling with knee pain off and on. I guess I get scared to try new things sometimes because I want to keep skiing...after I cracked and dislocated 3 or 4 ribs on a rail over the summer, I got back to hitting rails when I could because I knew I had to in order to get over my fear. Fear is the mind killer! It kills your tricks, too. hahah I really want to get a crew rolling through the park because I think that having fun with a group of women who are badass and willing to try new shit will get everyone pumped, help us stop thinking so much, and forget our fears and insecurities.

That said, if any of you want to join us, let me know. We don't really care about ability level. Like I said, I'm just learning and am just starting to get comfortable with calling myself a park skier. I sometimes worry people watch me and think I suck, but I want it too bad to let that stop me. To all you girls who fall and fall and get back up again, mad props.
Mar 1 2015 5:14PM
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Queen_Selassie
Posts: 1430 - Karma: 1,363
KatrinaOne thought I had was holding a women's version of 'Tell A Friend Tour' to go to weird little resorts and show girls that YES it is possible to get into, YES it is fun, and YES you can do it too.

I don't know, I have spent a tremendous amount of time thinking about this, but I am stoked to hear others are feeling the same way.


Can we actually make this happen next season?!
Mar 1 2015 6:31PM
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lp.
Posts: 269 - Karma: 322
__skiaraI live in Steamboat Springs, CO now and its a struggle to progress in the park because of our builds. All our features are either really easy ass boxes or super difficult features. So thats my ski insecurity :(


Katrinathat park for sure sucks, but does your pass work at copper? lets link up sometime!


Our steamboat season passes don't work in copper but they do in winter park if you pay some extra money! They used to at copper several years ago but not anymore which sucks. And Eric seriously is awesome at helping with tricks! keep learning from him! :) I'll letcha know if I can come back to the boat to ski!
Mar 2 2015 6:02PM
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lp.
Posts: 269 - Karma: 322
I think the thing that hold me back the most is I tend to not hold myself to my goals as much as I should. I'll say I want a solid 5's with grabs by January, and now it's March and I've landed a few SKETCHY ones, and none of my other goals. Having friends (guy or girl) out there that help me stick to my goals and push me to make new ones would be really helpful. I feel like I'm going out there and cruising around with people but just doing the same tricks I have already.
Mar 2 2015 6:11PM
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el_mn_op
Posts: 577 - Karma: 1,175
lp.I think the thing that hold me back the most is I tend to not hold myself to my goals as much as I should. I'll say I want a solid 5's with grabs by January, and now it's March and I've landed a few SKETCHY ones, and none of my other goals. Having friends (guy or girl) out there that help me stick to my goals and push me to make new ones would be really helpful. I feel like I'm going out there and cruising around with people but just doing the same tricks I have already.


I do the exact same thing. Having goals in the first place is a good step towards progression though, and even when they aren't met, if you're putting effort into achieving them at least you're doing something! Or at least that's what I tell myself when I fail to hold myself to my goals ha.

At the same time I think skiing should be fun, and if the pursuit of goals gets in the way of that, then maybe it's ok to not hold yourself to them? Although it's so easy to get into the routine of doing the tricks I already know, to the point that somedays it becomes almost a rut that I feel stuck in- and then not pushing myself isn't any fun either. Gotta find that happy-medium I guess.
Mar 2 2015 8:02PM
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nattytokes
Posts: 57 - Karma: 318
P.S. Would anyone be down to help put together a casual rail jam/party this spring? We could get a bunch of friends to bring features and set up somewhere inconspicuous!
Mar 3 2015 12:41AM
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NSwidow
Posts: 888 - Karma: 3,223
nattytokesP.S. Would anyone be down to help put together a casual rail jam/party this spring? We could get a bunch of friends to bring features and set up somewhere inconspicuous!


Girl, this sounds awesome! Count me in. I in CO now too. just shot you an email. lets link up. Gotta get Katrina in on this too.
Mar 3 2015 1:04AM
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lp.
Posts: 269 - Karma: 322
NSwidowGirl, this sounds awesome! Count me in. I in CO now too. just shot you an email. lets link up. Gotta get Katrina in on this too.


I'm in! I have to get wrist surgery but hopefully i'll be casted up soon after the sling (whenever that happens) and i can ski hah
Mar 4 2015 12:06PM
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katrina
Posts: 2395 - Karma: 15,198
im in! also going to utah tonight so utah ladies hmu if you wanna shred!
Mar 4 2015 12:16PM
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nattytokes
Posts: 57 - Karma: 318
Sweet, then let's make it happen! I'll work on finding a spot, any suggestions for summit county? I could even hit up some companies and see if they'll send us some swag to give away. :)
Mar 4 2015 8:23PM
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katrina
Posts: 2395 - Karma: 15,198
loveland might be into it
Mar 4 2015 8:35PM
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badlucksince91
Posts: 68 - Karma: 211
I think a big part of progressions is filming, seeing yourself, what you're doing right and wrong...agreed that most dudes I ski with won't take time to film a chick...they're always like 'yo! she can film us' ugh.
Mar 5 2015 12:01AM
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Queen_Selassie
Posts: 1430 - Karma: 1,363
A Basin or Loveland like Katrina said. Maybe even Woodward at Copper might go for the idea. A friend of mine on the east coast puts together an event every spring for the ladies called Park Affair. Their moto is "ride more, care less" I love the idea of having a private park for a weekend for just ladies to ride and progress. Let's make something happen!
Mar 7 2015 3:10PM
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annex_
Posts: 1659 - Karma: 1,498
this should be in the spring cause i'm having knee surgery again and won't be skiing till then :)
Mar 7 2015 11:51PM
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katrina
Posts: 2395 - Karma: 15,198
woodward at copper could be into it, could be a way to promote women signing up for camp? perhaps the best thing to do is get some footy together of girls progressing, killing it, and most importantly having fun and then pair it with a nice email to pitch the concept.

FYI WE ARE HAVING A LADY SKI DAY AT KEYSTONEA51 THURSDAY FOR ALL INTERESTED PARTIES.

maybe we can put something together using footage from that? i have a camera we
can use and if anyone else does we
can all take turns alternating filming and get shit done?
Mar 9 2015 8:15PM
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NSwidow
Posts: 888 - Karma: 3,223
Katrinawoodward at copper could be into it, could be a way to promote women signing up for camp? perhaps the best thing to do is get some footy together of girls progressing, killing it, and most importantly having fun and then pair it with a nice email to pitch the concept.

FYI WE ARE HAVING A LADY SKI DAY AT KEYSTONEA51 THURSDAY FOR ALL INTERESTED PARTIES.

maybe we can put something together using footage from that? i have a camera we
can use and if anyone else does we
can all take turns alternating filming and get shit done?


That's a perfect plan! Let's get it done. Can we make the Copper day before April 3 though? I MUST ATTEND
Mar 9 2015 9:03PM
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nattytokes
Posts: 57 - Karma: 318
Queen_SelassieA Basin or Loveland like Katrina said. Maybe even Woodward at Copper might go for the idea. A friend of mine on the east coast puts together an event every spring for the ladies called Park Affair. Their moto is "ride more, care less" I love the idea of having a private park for a weekend for just ladies to ride and progress. Let's make something happen!



Perfect! Love this idea. And yes, Katrina, great ideas! I can definitely put together an edit for this with the footy this Thurs!
Mar 10 2015 1:06AM
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lp.
Posts: 269 - Karma: 322
Katrinawoodward at copper could be into it, could be a way to promote women signing up for camp? perhaps the best thing to do is get some footy together of girls progressing, killing it, and most importantly having fun and then pair it with a nice email to pitch the concept.

FYI WE ARE HAVING A LADY SKI DAY AT KEYSTONEA51 THURSDAY FOR ALL INTERESTED PARTIES.

maybe we can put something together using footage from that? i have a camera we
can use and if anyone else does we
can all take turns alternating filming and get shit done?


raaaawrr all my classes are on Tuesday/Thursday. I did get some shots with my guy buddy on Sunday though I can send you if we're doing a girls collab edit
Mar 11 2015 5:26PM
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