Member of the Month

hi_vis360
November, 2024

Online

Welcome to the Newschoolers forums! You may read the forums as a guest, however you must be a registered member to post. Register to become a member today!

Avalanches in ski resorts: who's responsible?

profile picture
rtl32
Posts: 679 - Karma: 1,161
My intelligence on the matter + the diminishing vibe towards ignorance regarding avalanches on NS leads me to believe that resorts should not be responsible for whatever injuries a skier sustains from their own avalanche. However, the American "just sue them for it!" attitude and pussy-ness has raised the question for all those who ski East Vail, Schlasman's lift, or similar avalanche susceptible lift serviced terrain. My take on it is that resorts cannot prevent stupidity, therefore should not be liable for it. They should be responsible for posting something along the line of "unpatrolled terrain, do not ski without proper gear or knowledge" just so that people do not knowingly take the risk, but overall it is still the skier responsibility to stay safe. Other terrain that they leave open to everybody and don't market as potential avalanche terrain should be their responsibility purely because they didn't make me aware of the danger (think, terrain that gapers could hop off a lift and go ski without a clue that it's dangerous). I feel like it would only be idiots like the guy at Bridger arguing that he shouldn't need a beacon that would say resorts should be responsible.

NS, debate this:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/20/opinion/cevallos-skiing-avalanche-liability/index.html
POLL
Edit Poll
Votes:

Take care when editing a poll; Options should be similar to maintain vote integrity.

More options will be added automatically as you type. You must supply a question and at least two options. No HTML is allowed.

Jan 20 2015 11:23PM
22 9
profile picture
S.J.W
Posts: 7609 - Karma: 31,186
Resorts shouldn't be responsible but imagine the negative press on a resort if they allowed an idiot to ski avalanche prone and he or she died. It'd be terrible.
Jan 20 2015 11:34PM
1 1
profile picture
caucasian_chad
Posts: 4078 - Karma: 3,625
I'm pretty sure the beacon requirement at Bridger is more or less an attempt to keep gapers out than anything. It was just an easy way to create a barrier to entry for the many people who for some reason ignore experts only signs. My friends who are lifties at Big Sky see those kinds of people getting on the Challenger lift at Big Sky all the time. I don't think that requiring skiers to have beacons should allow a ski resort to wash their hands of any responsibility in case of an inbounds slide, and I really don't think that that is Bridger's intent.
Jan 20 2015 11:36PM
0 0
profile picture
profa_212
Posts: 8948 - Karma: 36,448
caucasian_chadI'm pretty sure the beacon requirement at Bridger is more or less an attempt to keep gapers out than anything. It was just an easy way to create a barrier to entry for the many people who for some reason ignore experts only signs. My friends who are lifties at Big Sky see those kinds of people getting on the Challenger lift at Big Sky all the time. I don't think that requiring skiers to have beacons should allow a ski resort to wash their hands of any responsibility in case of an inbounds slide, and I really don't think that that is Bridger's intent.


Pretty sure this is why you have to hike to the Headwaters lift over on moonlights side too. It's for their own good Ha.
Jan 21 2015 12:17AM
0 0
profile picture
Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,011
It is the resorts responsibility 100%, but at the same time you can never make every inch of inbounds safe.

As for your examples, Bridger has already been covered and East Vail isn't inside the boundary of the ski resort so they have no liability there.

There is a huge grey area of 'blame' between ski patrol opening an area of question without doing control work and having a pocket release somewhere resulting in an injury or death and just suing the resort. Skiing is inherently dangerous and that's all there is to it. Shit happens and a lot of times it's absolutely useless to play the blame game.
Jan 21 2015 2:00AM
3 1
profile picture
Holte
Posts: 10742 - Karma: 7,818
If you're, say, Kim Kircher and you use 20 fucking pounds of dynamite and the slide takes out a chairlift, it's your damn fault and the insurance company should absolutely be suspicious.
Jan 21 2015 2:52AM
1 0
profile picture
MLJ
Posts: 1849 - Karma: 3,649
HolteIf you're, say, Kim Kircher and you use 20 fucking pounds of dynamite and the slide takes out a chairlift, it's your damn fault and the insurance company should absolutely be suspicious.


What was this? I haven't heard of it before.
Jan 21 2015 3:13AM
1 0
profile picture
Static
Posts: 8560 - Karma: 4,138
HolteIf you're, say, Kim Kircher and you use 20 fucking pounds of dynamite and the slide takes out a chairlift, it's your damn fault and the insurance company should absolutely be suspicious.


hey now, "She has logged over six hundred hours of explosives control, earning not only her avalanche blaster's card, but also a heli-blaster endorsement"
Jan 21 2015 6:12AM
1 0
profile picture
haggis_hunter
Posts: 399 - Karma: 207
ChubbyBoyResorts shouldn't be responsible but imagine the negative press on a resort if they allowed an idiot to ski avalanche prone and he or she died. It'd be terrible.


This is called Europe, we don't really have in bounds terrain. Its just terrain and if you go off and do something stupid its your own fault. If your lucky and they can get to you ski patrol might come and rescue you, but they will also check your pockets for a credit card to make sure you can pay for it.
Jan 21 2015 7:18AM
0 0
profile picture
FreedGucci
Posts: 454 - Karma: 3,192
I don't know ANYTHING about avalanches (I live on the east coast) but when I see that the terrain is open I immediately associate that with a sense of security. That being said the signs the resort puts up are enough to make me think it's the skier because they literally tell you off the bat that it's not necessarily safe, so when someone like me enters that kind of terrain it's completely my decision to take the risk
Jan 21 2015 8:52AM
2 0
profile picture
TotalNan
Posts: 147 - Karma: 339
It is up to the resort to make the terrain as safe as possible. Paying for a ticket should demand a certain level of competence from the mountain to ensure the safety of its patrons. But, that can only go so far and it is impossible to catch everything, especially in large resorts.

It is up to the person to make smart decisions and respect the mountain regardless of if you are inbounds or out. Skiing is inherently dangerous and you accept that risk the second you buy that ticket and click into your skis.
Jan 21 2015 10:56AM
0 2
profile picture
SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
is the fast food industry responible for your govenor being a fat ass
who cant control or take responibility for stuffin his fat fuckin face w/ their products?
if your suposed avvy knowledge comes from a cnn pos blogging lawyer
best stay onpiste and get ya some recco gear
Jan 21 2015 11:03AM
2 3
profile picture
Yaraelpoof.png
Posts: 1556 - Karma: 6,418
The snow
Jan 21 2015 12:29PM
0 0
profile picture
GayWolf420
Posts: 37517 - Karma: 121,409
at places like Bridger, I don't think they should be put in the firing line because some dipshit jerry failed to read the obviously posted signs and warnings on trail maps and trail signs. These are areas that say even on the maps that you need specific gear to ski it, so the whole defense that "no one told me I couldn't ski it" is total bullshit. If anything, they're doing him (mostly his family) a favor. Im sure they wouldn't be stoked to get a phonecall that their dumbass hot-headed father got killed being an idiot.


Places that have open, controlled terrain that anyone can ski should be partially responsible for opening terrain they deem safe, but shit happens. weather changes, snowpack changes as well, and all sorts of funky stuff can happen to snow, so its really a gray area I feel like.


We just need to get away from this "sue sue sue" lawyer culture we have in the US. Its annoying.
Jan 21 2015 12:46PM
0 0
profile picture
snomaster
Posts: 3346 - Karma: 5,771
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152952330321438&fref=nf

will this work?

wild video of inbounds slide (looks like hike to terrain)

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152952330321438&fref=nf

If someone creates an avalanche in a closed or gate accessed area that does not come back into the resort, the resort has no fault. otherwise, my money is on the other guy.
Jan 21 2015 1:31PM
1 0
profile picture
firecrotch
Posts: 1471 - Karma: 5,507
snomasterhttps://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152952330321438&fref=nf

will this work?

wild video of inbounds slide (looks like hike to terrain)

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152952330321438&fref=nf

If someone creates an avalanche in a closed or gate accessed area that does not come back into the resort, the resort has no fault. otherwise, my money is on the other guy.


jesus. south america inbounds terrain is on another level
Jan 21 2015 2:11PM
0 0
profile picture
Flowbear
Posts: 339 - Karma: 828
As long as the resort takes reasonable steps to keep the premises reasonably safe and they provide proper signage and markings of the possible dangers as well as ensure the customer is made aware of the exclusion of liability and assumptions of risk, whether it be the signage at the ticket booths, the blurb on the back of every ticket or a waiver it's all on the person. They can still try to sue but as long as the resort follows all the guidelines the person really can't win.
Jan 21 2015 3:54PM
0 0
profile picture
TheBigApple
Posts: 1169 - Karma: 488
Resort is 100% responsible of something slides in bounds on an open pitch. No ifs ands or buts. If they think there is any chance whatsoever it should be closed to avoid this situation. That being said it's not so black and white and snow science is a soft science and hard to predict shit. That being said if you go out onto a 45 degree slope after 12 inches of snow overnight and don't expect it to sluff a ton or slide you are an idiot.
Jan 21 2015 7:55PM
1 1
profile picture
casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,748
Dude......East Vail is BACKCOUNTRY!! If you go out a backcountry gate (maintained by the forest service), you are on your fucking own. Period.

Same goes with the Mine Dumps, 7 Sisters, and any of the terrain around Loveland and ABasin. Just because you took a chairlift, that doesn't mean you're within the boundaries of the resort. I think it was last season when someone dipped out a Jackson Hole bc gate and was killed in a slide on terrain outside the resort boundary but adjacent to it. That's not Jackson Hole's fault.

If patrol opens terrain, deems it safe for public, and then someone is caught in a slide, that's a situation where the resort should be responsible. If it's avalanche controlled terrain, and designated as such. If a resort has a no control policy, that's different, but that's unique.

If someone ducks closure ropes, ignores signage, etc., that individual should be liable.
Jan 21 2015 8:27PM
1 0
profile picture
SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
TheBigAppleResort is 100% responsible of something slides in bounds on an open pitch. No ifs ands or buts. If they think there is any chance whatsoever it should be closed to avoid this situation. That being said it's not so black and white and snow science is a soft science and hard to predict shit. That being said if you go out onto a 45 degree slope after 12 inches of snow overnight and don't expect it to sluff a ton or slide you are an idiot.

http://utahavalanchecenter.org/avalanches/17456

Our friend Heather wasn't an idiot she was a great person. People have this false assumption that experts are immune to mistakes, you can outsmart avalaunches 100% of the time, or the fallacy that the uac continues to perpetrate that snow safety control work w/in the resorts bouundries means avvy immunity
best to protect yourself at all times and tae responsibility for your actions
"people who sue ski resorts should be shot" - scott schmidt
Jan 22 2015 8:28AM
0 0
All times are Eastern (-5)