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Ideal Conditions To Avoid Avalanches?

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.Morton
Posts: 440 - Karma: 1,426
My family and I are going out West this spring break and we have gone before but this year I would like to get into the backcountry. As I am learning more about skiing backcountry I have come to learn about how dangerous avalanches are. My question is what would be the ideal conditions to avoid avalanches. I know the snow can cause avalanches when the top hardens over the soft bottom. So should the snow be warmer, or is coldest possible better? Or should it be in the middle?

Ski In Peace to the skiers that were killed in the recent avalanche. Ronnie Berlack and Bryce Astle. No one deserves to die that young.
Jan 6 2015 5:25PM
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Mr.Huck
Posts: 6096 - Karma: 14,902
Chair 15 at Vail. To the best of my knowledge there has never been a slide there.

Jan 6 2015 5:32PM
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ilikefood
Posts: 391 - Karma: 769
You are best to play it as safe as possible. What ever you do, don't go out there alone and go with someone who knows the area and what they are doing.Make sure you have the necessary gear to do what ever it is you are trying to do out there. A solid resource would be the local avalanche forecasting and info centre for information on the snow pack, gear, forecasting etc. Make sure you know what the hell you are doing because one small mistake and you could get in to some serious trouble quite quickly.

Sorry for the safety rant, but it's a dangerous place if you don't know what you are doing!
Jan 6 2015 5:49PM
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the.hellion.
Posts: 861 - Karma: 698
I don't know much about bc/at, but I know this: the way the snow looks wherever you check might not be the same 10 feet down, or even three feet in front of you.

Please, do everyone a favour and don't go out into uncontrolled terrain without a beacon, probe and shovel, some basic Avalanche education (ideally, an Avy 1) or at the very, very least a guide with those skills and a very good knowledge of the area. there are some resorts with some really cool and fun inbounds terrain that can be just as challenging, breathtaking, and raw as the backcountry, just a little safer.
Jan 6 2015 6:05PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,143
Problem: you have no idea what you're doing. Solution: hire a qualified guide to show you around and ensure you don't get in over your head.

Given what you posted, if you do anything else I basically think you're an idiot.
Jan 6 2015 6:11PM
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.Morton
Posts: 440 - Karma: 1,426
J.D.Problem: you have no idea what you're doing. Solution: hire a qualified guide to show you around and ensure you don't get in over your head.

Given what you posted, if you do anything else I basically think you're an idiot.


Thanks, I am definitely planning on getting a guide if I do decide to go. I just needed somewhere to start learning more about the safety.
Jan 6 2015 6:13PM
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skodeo7
Posts: 14949 - Karma: 9,234
Eastern.SkierMy family and I are going out West this spring break and we have gone before but this year I would like to get into the backcountry. As I am learning more about skiing backcountry I have come to learn about how dangerous avalanches are. My question is what would be the ideal conditions to avoid avalanches. I know the snow can cause avalanches when the top hardens over the soft bottom. So should the snow be warmer, or is coldest possible better? Or should it be in the middle?

Ski In Peace to the skiers that were killed in the recent avalanche. Ronnie Berlack and Bryce Astle. No one deserves to die that young.


I'm not trying to be a dick but it sounds like you probably want to stay in-bounds. That is not a diss at all but if you're going out for the week, you're not going to become a backcountry expert in the time you're there. I recommend you don't stray outside the gates without proper knowledge and gear. It's not exactly something you should be jumping right into because you're out west for vacation. That being said, you'll have a ton of fun in bounds, I'll never forget the first couple times I went out west for trips. It'll change ya!
Jan 6 2015 6:15PM
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SkiBum.
Posts: 3600 - Karma: 3,909
You should stick to in bounds. Groomed runs at that. You don't know enough to venture out. You can kill yourself out there, which I could care less about, but when you trigger something and kill others, thats when people get pissed.
Jan 6 2015 6:18PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,143
Eastern.SkierThanks, I am definitely planning on getting a guide if I do decide to go. I just needed somewhere to start learning more about the safety.

You could take AST 1 before you go, but honestly I feel like if you take that course in the east you're going to learn a lot about the snowpack in the east and idiosyncratic risks that don't necessarily translate perfectly. Sure, a lot of stuff like route finding will probably apply, and it's worth taking anyway. But either way if you're actually going to do this, a certified guide who knows the area well is what you want.
Jan 6 2015 6:19PM
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.Morton
Posts: 440 - Karma: 1,426
skodeo7I'm not trying to be a dick but it sounds like you probably want to stay in-bounds. That is not a diss at all but if you're going out for the week, you're not going to become a backcountry expert in the time you're there. I recommend you don't stray outside the gates without proper knowledge and gear. It's not exactly something you should be jumping right into because you're out west for vacation. That being said, you'll have a ton of fun in bounds, I'll never forget the first couple times I went out west for trips. It'll change ya!


Thanks, do you have any ideas on how I could get more knowledge on how to ski backcountry without having to live out West, or should I just wait until I am old enough to move there which I plan on doing. I would like to hike Mansfield sometime soon and a couple families that I know are hiking Tuckermans with me in May.
Jan 6 2015 6:19PM
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the.hellion.
Posts: 861 - Karma: 698
Just to throw in a couple more cents, I grew up skiing east coast bunny hills, racing and teaching, a pretty good skier. I moved out west in February of last year and I haven't gone out to the backcountry yet, and to be honest, I probably won't until next season. It takes, A LOT to go out there (equipment, muscle, endurance) and I can't guarantee that I wouldn't be a hazard to my crew. However, I have had some heart-pounding moments skiing the Ridge at Loveland Ski Area, and Montezuma's Bowl at Arapahpe Basin, and places like Silverton, CO can provide the kind of inbounds experience you're looking for..
Jan 6 2015 6:24PM
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Miomo
Posts: 4302 - Karma: 14,133
Summer. No snow, no slides.
Jan 6 2015 6:29PM
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.Morton
Posts: 440 - Karma: 1,426
the.hellion.Just to throw in a couple more cents, I grew up skiing east coast bunny hills, racing and teaching, a pretty good skier. I moved out west in February of last year and I haven't gone out to the backcountry yet, and to be honest, I probably won't until next season. It takes, A LOT to go out there (equipment, muscle, endurance) and I can't guarantee that I wouldn't be a hazard to my crew. However, I have had some heart-pounding moments skiing the Ridge at Loveland Ski Area, and Montezuma's Bowl at Arapahpe Basin, and places like Silverton, CO can provide the kind of inbounds experience you're looking for..


Thanks, a couple years ago I went to the Canyons, Utah and the inbounds runs were pretty nice but maybe I was just not at the right mountain for what I was looking for. Maybe if we go to another mountain it will be more like what you guys are talking about.
Jan 6 2015 6:29PM
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.Morton
Posts: 440 - Karma: 1,426
SkiBum.You should stick to in bounds. Groomed runs at that. You don't know enough to venture out. You can kill yourself out there, which I could care less about, but when you trigger something and kill others, thats when people get pissed.


Why so much hate and no help?
Jan 6 2015 6:31PM
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Skroob
Posts: 266 - Karma: 69
I grew up skiing Sugarloaf Maine and knew next to nothing about the backcountry the first time I went out west. I skied in Utah, Colorado and BC all as week trips from back east and never ventured out into the back or side country and still had life changing trips each time. Since then (being high school I am now 25) I have lived in MT, CO and now WA and although I now love to play in the backcountry I still give it the respect it deserves.

As far as terrain, I have skied the canyons and not sure what other terrain aspects you are looking for? Other mountains will have more vertical drop and steeps but what is the definition of what you are considering "backcountry".

I would say as far as getting knowledge, classes can provide a great base of knowledge, however, without putting this knowledge to use in a practical setting it can be hard for things to click. To put this in perspective as an Outdoor Leadership graduate I have learned that the most dangerous person in the Backcountry is a 20-25 year old male with and AVI 1, just enough knowledge to make yourself dangerous as hell! Depending on where you are going a guide could be a good choice, but the amount of inbound challenging terrain at most western resorts is enough to give even the best skiers butterflies. In my opinion you will have the most fun lapping inbounds only because you will get many more runs than if you were to try and find something out of bounds that may or may not be worth the effort and definitely will be much more dangerous.
Jan 6 2015 7:43PM
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skier58284
Posts: 1705 - Karma: 5,366
The bunny hill.

If you are going to ski backcountry, take Avalanche 1 and get avalanche gear first.
Jan 6 2015 7:58PM
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.Morton
Posts: 440 - Karma: 1,426
Cats.The bunny hill.

If you are going to ski backcountry, take Avalanche 1 and get avalanche gear first.


Why is everyone assuming that I'm not taking the classes and bringing gear?
Jan 6 2015 8:26PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,143
I don't think they're assuming you won't so much as you haven't.
Jan 6 2015 8:39PM
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.Morton
Posts: 440 - Karma: 1,426
EggsOverSteezyAs far as terrain, I have skied the canyons and not sure what other terrain aspects you are looking for? Other mountains will have more vertical drop and steeps but what is the definition of what you are considering "backcountry".


Right mountain in the canyons itself, I know it definitely has what I am looking for I was just younger and I guess didn't have enough days being there to ski ninety-nine 90 and those places.
Jan 6 2015 8:58PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
Eastern.SkierWhy is everyone assuming that I'm not taking the classes and bringing gear?


Because you talk like a 12 year old from New Jersey. Seriously, everything you have said so far has screamed incompetence. Thats fine, because you are young and you are from an area where Western style BC is inaccessible. thats not a bad thing.

If you want to start getting into BC, start becoming knowledgable. Watch youtube videos, read books on avalanches, attend REI sponsored avalanche classes, attend backcountry first aid clinics etc. The mountains dont get anyless dangerous with advanced training and knowledge. They are still out to kill you. you just get better at dodging its bullets.

At some point, go ahead and spend $250 for a beacon, $100 on skins, $150 for a pack, shovel, and probe, another $200+ on bindings, and then $300+ on an Avy I class.

Once all that is taken care of you need to go on any and all group BC trips that are sponsored by REI or any other outdoorsy clubs.

Once you have figured out the basics of skinning, bushwacking, reading conditions etc, you will need to get in crazy good shape, and be able to ski stuff that is way over your head now, in your sleep. Why? because if you ever want to tag along with someone who kills it in the BC you need to be able to keep up...It sucks having to constantly be the one to break trail. It sucks having to back away from cherry line because someone in your group isnt competent enough to ski a line quickly, lightly, and safely. You learn the best from the best.


Good luck and get started.



Curiously, why do you want to forego a chairlift?
Jan 6 2015 11:39PM
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.Morton
Posts: 440 - Karma: 1,426
californiagrownCuriously, why do you want to forego a chairlift?


I don't know if it makes a difference but I mean backcountry as in leave the gates and go directly off of the side of the resort. I am well aware that I don't have enough knowledge to be hiking up and skinning and doing real big mountain skiing, I think some people are thinking that I am going to be going way out of the resort so I'm just going to clarify that I'm not. I'm trying to find somewhere that I can start getting the experience so that I can eventually do those things.
Jan 7 2015 6:39AM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7495 - Karma: 11,554
Eastern.SkierI don't know if it makes a difference but I mean backcountry as in leave the gates and go directly off of the side of the resort. I am well aware that I don't have enough knowledge to be hiking up and skinning and doing real big mountain skiing, I think some people are thinking that I am going to be going way out of the resort so I'm just going to clarify that I'm not. I'm trying to find somewhere that I can start getting the experience so that I can eventually do those things.


So "slack country" more than anything. You are talking areas where you can still end up back at the lift with minimal effort correct? Something like the Hobacks out in Jackson?
Jan 7 2015 8:26AM
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
terrain terrain and terrain
the absence of a slab or a weak layers
isothermic snowpack
statistics show skiing w/ those lacking testicles is safer
Jan 7 2015 9:57AM
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.Morton
Posts: 440 - Karma: 1,426
.MASSHOLE.So "slack country" more than anything. You are talking areas where you can still end up back at the lift with minimal effort correct? Something like the Hobacks out in Jackson?


Yes, I'm not familiar with the terms but I am looking for something like that. Until I get the skill to be able to hike up out of the resort and be aware of Avalanche safety.
Jan 7 2015 10:22AM
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Mr.Huck
Posts: 6096 - Karma: 14,902
Eastern.SkierI don't know if it makes a difference but I mean backcountry as in leave the gates and go directly off of the side of the resort. I am well aware that I don't have enough knowledge to be hiking up and skinning and doing real big mountain skiing, I think some people are thinking that I am going to be going way out of the resort so I'm just going to clarify that I'm not. I'm trying to find somewhere that I can start getting the experience so that I can eventually do those things.


Seems like you believe that you have to go "way out of bounds" to get buried. That belief will get you killed. Plenty of people have ducked ropes in bounds and skied stuff that was not controlled by ski patrol, and triggered slides.

.MASSHOLE.So "slack country" more than anything. You are talking areas where you can still end up back at the lift with minimal effort correct? Something like the Hobacks out in Jackson?


Slack country is definitely the answer.

OP, going out a gate without someone who knows the area is not wise. Even if you don't get buried, you can end up below lift service and have to hike out down a drainage. That can easily end badly. There is some slack country that is novice friendly, but if you don't know the ski area very well... Do yourself a favor and recruit a local to drag you around.
Jan 7 2015 10:37AM
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Justo8484
Posts: 3905 - Karma: 205
Eastern.SkierI don't know if it makes a difference but I mean backcountry as in leave the gates and go directly off of the side of the resort. I am well aware that I don't have enough knowledge to be hiking up and skinning and doing real big mountain skiing, I think some people are thinking that I am going to be going way out of the resort so I'm just going to clarify that I'm not. I'm trying to find somewhere that I can start getting the experience so that I can eventually do those things.


99/flat top at canyons is exactly what you're talking about. that said, and i may be wrong on this, but i think i read somewhere that that area has the most avy deaths in the country due to the ridiculously easy entry and exit. I've skied it plenty of times, and it's pretty fun, for the canyons. would i recommend other people do it who have no BC experience? probably not. I've never skied it with BC gear, which is dumb.
i took a calculated risk, and luckily the only time I got into any sort of situation, I had a good idea of where the snow was going to go and got away clean. This is based on, at that time, over 20 years of skiing experience, with pretty regular trips up to new england and out west skiing more challenging terrain.
Jan 7 2015 12:45PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
Eastern.SkierYes, I'm not familiar with the terms but I am looking for something like that. Until I get the skill to be able to hike up out of the resort and be aware of Avalanche safety.


You realize that sidecountry=slack country=back country? They are the same in terms of danger. Uncontrolled, unpatrolled, wild dangerous areas.


I ask again, why do you want to ski in the BC?
Jan 7 2015 12:59PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
SkiBum.You should stick to in bounds. Groomed runs at that.


oh fuck off. there have been like 5 inbounds avy deaths in the past 30 years in the entire US. what a dumb thing to say

i love that BC skiers are so uninviting to naive skiers going out unsafely, but some of you are so desperately eager to talk down but not offer any info it's mind blowing
Jan 7 2015 1:07PM
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iLLbiLLy
Posts: 2865 - Karma: 2,631
Beacon? Shovel? Prob? Knowledge of the terrain? Snowpack? Equally educated and equipped partner to ski with?

Even IF YOU KNEW what caused avalanches that wouldn't help you when your going to a new place for only a couple days. It takes weeks being in an area and studying a snow pack before your ready to venture out into the backcountry. If you're experienced in backcountry travel, you may be able to properly educate yourself on the current snowpack by following avalanche forecasts and events for weeks before heading into the new zone.

Do yourself a favor and stay in bounds. Some resorts have in bounds hikes that will give you a similar experience of the "side country" but on terrain that is controlled by ski patrol (don't know if vail has anything like this or not).
Jan 7 2015 1:09PM
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iH8pow
Posts: 1825 - Karma: 7,826
Read the avalanche report. I know JH has the avalanche report right at the exit for the backcountry gates although I'm not sure where you're going. Don't look for pure untouched snow--often times that's for a reason. You get yourself into trouble when you go somewhere where there are no tracks whether it is because of avalanche danger or if you're going to get cliffed out. You should be able to stick to in-bounds just fine though.

but...fuck powder! Ski park
Jan 7 2015 1:11PM
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.Morton
Posts: 440 - Karma: 1,426
RubberSouloh fuck off. there have been like 5 inbounds avy deaths in the past 30 years in the entire US. what a dumb thing to say

i love that BC skiers are so uninviting to naive skiers going out unsafely, but some of you are so desperately eager to talk down but not offer any info it's mind blowing


CoreyTrevorRead the avalanche report. I know JH has the avalanche report right at the exit for the backcountry gates although I'm not sure where you're going. Don't look for pure untouched snow--often times that's for a reason. You get yourself into trouble when you go somewhere where there are no tracks whether it is because of avalanche danger or if you're going to get cliffed out. You should be able to stick to in-bounds just fine though.

but...fuck powder! Ski park


Thank you guys so much for the help. +k
Jan 7 2015 4:51PM
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skier58284
Posts: 1705 - Karma: 5,366
Eastern.SkierWhy is everyone assuming that I'm not taking the classes and bringing gear?


Because if you have taken classes then you would know that what you learned in classes is a much better indicator than what some 14 year old park kids tell you on NS. If the class wasn't enough, read Snow Sense.
Jan 7 2015 5:27PM
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_steffen_
Posts: 904 - Karma: 133
Ask these questions in AT&BC. And dont go out of bounds without beacon, shovel, probe, education, equally or more knowledgable buddy, and familiarity with the terrain and avalanche report. Just dont, if youre making this thread then just get it out of your head. Move out west and sink the time needed into respecting the mountains and educating yourself if you want to ride backcountry
Jan 7 2015 5:35PM
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.Morton
Posts: 440 - Karma: 1,426
_steffen_Ask these questions in AT&BC. And dont go out of bounds without beacon, shovel, probe, education, equally or more knowledgable buddy, and familiarity with the terrain and avalanche report. Just dont, if youre making this thread then just get it out of your head. Move out west and sink the time needed into respecting the mountains and educating yourself if you want to ride backcountry


Wow I had no idea there was an AT&BC forum, thanks for the info and help though.
Jan 7 2015 6:07PM
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bieberhole69.
Posts: 654 - Karma: 1,387
Eastern.SkierI know the snow can cause avalanches when the top hardens over the soft bottom. So should the snow be warmer, or is coldest possible better? Or should it be in the middle?


Even more important than the current conditions are what the conditions have been like the week and month before you go through the gate. Has there been a dry spell followed by a big dump? Has there been much wind, and from what direction?

Generally waiting several days after a storm gives the snow a chance to settle in a little bit, but again, that guarantees nothing. Wind could have caused massive windslabs and cornices to form, sun could have melted and refroze the snow, etc.

Besides worrying about the conditions, you also will be completely unfamiliar with the terrain, and where it is safe to go and where there is a 50 foot cliff below you. I'm being completely sincere when I say that the reward will not be worth the risk and expense. If you were moving out there it'd be one thing, but for now, enjoy your family vacation and shred in-bounds.
Jan 7 2015 7:17PM
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.Morton
Posts: 440 - Karma: 1,426
bieberhole69.Even more important than the current conditions are what the conditions have been like the week and month before you go through the gate. Has there been a dry spell followed by a big dump? Has there been much wind, and from what direction?

Generally waiting several days after a storm gives the snow a chance to settle in a little bit, but again, that guarantees nothing. Wind could have caused massive windslabs and cornices to form, sun could have melted and refroze the snow, etc.

Besides worrying about the conditions, you also will be completely unfamiliar with the terrain, and where it is safe to go and where there is a 50 foot cliff below you. I'm being completely sincere when I say that the reward will not be worth the risk and expense. If you were moving out there it'd be one thing, but for now, enjoy your family vacation and shred in-bounds.


Thank you man, you have been a big help. Its good to hear about the things that there still are to learn. Even though this got a lot of hate I'm glad I asked because I could have gotten myself and family into a bad situation.
Jan 7 2015 8:13PM
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Flowbear
Posts: 339 - Karma: 828
You are obviously new to the backcountry and honestly there's so much more to it then just the temperature, it has more to do with the different snow layers and how that particular season has been with the type of snowfall, temps, rainfall, etc... and what sequence it all happened!! and you shouldn't even think about the backcountry without a beacon, probe and shovel and proper training.

Not sure where your planning on skiing but if your inland BC I extremely reccomend that you don't go out without proper equipment or training, This season in BC has had lots of variation in temp which means there are many layers with hore frost and many softer layers which is a recipe for big avalanches so don't reccomend it at all unless your experienced.

If you do decide to go I highly reccomend you get your AST 1 atleast, the proper equipment and a guide. And as for how to tell when it's good to go out, go to http://www.avalanche.ca/ it has all the information you need about the snowpack and likelihood of an avalanche along with other good information.

http://www.avalanche.ca/
Jan 7 2015 8:44PM
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.Morton
Posts: 440 - Karma: 1,426
FlowbearYou are obviously new to the backcountry and honestly there's so much more to it then just the temperature, it has more to do with the different snow layers and how that particular season has been with the type of snowfall, temps, rainfall, etc... and what sequence it all happened!! and you shouldn't even think about the backcountry without a beacon, probe and shovel and proper training.

Not sure where your planning on skiing but if your inland BC I extremely reccomend that you don't go out without proper equipment or training, This season in BC has had lots of variation in temp which means there are many layers with hore frost and many softer layers which is a recipe for big avalanches so don't reccomend it at all unless your experienced.

If you do decide to go I highly reccomend you get your AST 1 atleast, the proper equipment and a guide. And as for how to tell when it's good to go out, go to http://www.avalanche.ca/ it has all the information you need about the snowpack and likelihood of an avalanche along with other good information.

http://www.avalanche.ca/


Sorry to keep this thread going but I keep feeling the need to respond. Thanks for the info and the website. Your profile says you're in Ontario which if I am correct is toward the east side of N. America. Do you know any places maybe in VT that would possibly do AST 1 or would I have to go out west?
Jan 7 2015 8:51PM
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jblaski
Posts: 5566 - Karma: 1,078
RubberSouloh fuck off. there have been like 5 inbounds avy deaths in the past 30 years in the entire US. what a dumb thing to say

i love that BC skiers are so uninviting to naive skiers going out unsafely, but some of you are so desperately eager to talk down but not offer any info it's mind blowing


This is kinda how I"m feeling. All these people in this thread, talking shit on the poor kid who's trying to get some more knowledge. I have VERY little doubt these same kids talking about how this kids's an idiot and to get all this gear and knowledge, are the exact same kids leaving Brighton's gates in groups of 10 without a single piece of avy equipment in the whole group. The one's who tell me and other patrollers, "it's not backcountry brah, it's the side country, totally different", as we laugh at their ignorance.

To the OP, no sure where you're going for your trip, but maybe check out this resource for finding some guides from the area that can help show you around.

https://detour.backcountry.com/
Jan 7 2015 9:07PM
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250r
Posts: 2276 - Karma: 1,013
terrain evaluation plays a bigger role in decision making than the snowpack does. but as other people have said, just stay in bounds you'll find plenty of good stuff, or get a guide.
Jan 8 2015 3:10AM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13110 - Karma: 18,940
Touring is an offshoot of mountaineering. Since they share similar terrain, techniques and most gear are shared. Also, ethics should be too. Here are a couple I have learnt:

1. Mind your own business. Lets say a team of climbers enters the backcountry at 2pm before a storm. You can warn them about the dangers, but ultimately it is their responsibility for their own safety. They can tell you to fuck off, it is their own fault if they get killed. Its a free country, they can do whatever they want.

2. If you don't have the gear to do a line, you don't have the know how either. In rock climbing, cracks are not bolted because artificial protection can be placed. If you don't have a "trad rack" you don't know how to place gear safely. Dont just go out and borrow friends gear. Give yourself time to work up to that level. In the backcountry, you cant possibly have the know how to venture out safely if you have never used the gear.

3. You are responsible for your safety. It may turn out your buddy is insane and take ridiculous risks. He may even put you into danger without even knowing it. Well, it is your job on the mountain to survive first, then your buddy. Its egocentric, but 1 dead corpse is better than 2. However, it is both partners responsibility to watch over each other. Its what bonds us during the experience.

4. Luck happens. An experienced backcountry skier can get caught up in a small thing and die while the 1st time skier boy from the city rides in extreme avalanche risks and never have an incident. Luck plays a big role in an outcome of a backcountry experience. Gear can break, you can forget food, beacon dies and more gnarly things that can turn a beautiful day of touring into a search and rescue nightmare. Highly experienced BC enthusiasts can rig up solutions to save the day or save the life. They can do that because of the 1000 little things that went wrong over the years. They are ready to deal with anything because they are aware of the possibility of it happening.

So, recommendation: You can learn on your own. Start small...real small. Find a local hill in the woods and ski it down. Find more higher mountains in your region. Use snow shoes at first, then switch to touring gear. Once you start traveling in avy zones, get your avalanche skills training and buy a complete book about the theory and have simulations with friends or patrol. Buy topographic maps of everything, know your terrain better than your room. Read weather forecasts, avalanche forecasts weeks in not months before heading out. Basically, be very aware of your surroundings. Slackcountry is a great way to transition from the resort to the backcountry. However, it will lure you into a false sense of security.
Jan 8 2015 10:08AM
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Literature
Posts: 13673 - Karma: 3,085
I'm pretty sure that the most ideal conditions are in the AT/BC forum.
Jan 8 2015 10:21AM
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Flowbear
Posts: 339 - Karma: 828
Eastern.SkierSorry to keep this thread going but I keep feeling the need to respond. Thanks for the info and the website. Your profile says you're in Ontario which if I am correct is toward the east side of N. America. Do you know any places maybe in VT that would possibly do AST 1 or would I have to go out west?


Yes your correct and I'm actually living out of BC now, but I'm not sure what they would have in Vermont for courses but if you go on the website I provided earlier and go to the learn section it has a list of courses and regions you can do them in and I don't think there's usually many courses on the east coast. but go to the AAA (American Avalanche Association) site, they would have more info on whats available in US.
Jan 8 2015 11:34AM
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49566738265
Posts: 0 - Karma: 7,704
Eastern.SkierThanks, do you have any ideas on how I could get more knowledge on how to ski backcountry without having to live out West, or should I just wait until I am old enough to move there which I plan on doing. I would like to hike Mansfield sometime soon and a couple families that I know are hiking Tuckermans with me in May.


Frankly, if you haven't even seen what some of the Western ski areas have to offer inbounds yet, I don't know what you're rush is to get out in the BC. Comparing PA to Colorado/Utah, for example, is like comparing Rosie O'Donnell to Jessica Alba. Slow your roll and read a book first or something while you try to even get through a resort or two without getting bored.
Jan 8 2015 3:45PM
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49566738265
Posts: 0 - Karma: 7,704
Eastern.SkierYes, I'm not familiar with the terms but I am looking for something like that. Until I get the skill to be able to hike up out of the resort and be aware of Avalanche safety.


This mentality is exactly why people get killed in East Vail all the fucking time. It's a black line dude. Inbounds or not.
Jan 8 2015 3:52PM
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.Morton
Posts: 440 - Karma: 1,426
Dustin.Frankly, if you haven't even seen what some of the Western ski areas have to offer inbounds yet, I don't know what you're rush is to get out in the BC. Comparing PA to Colorado/Utah, for example, is like comparing Rosie O'Donnell to Jessica Alba. Slow your roll and read a book first or something while you try to even get through a resort or two without getting bored.


Someone mentioned something similar to this in an above post. I have only been to the Canyons when my family goes west and I guess we only stayed on the lower parts of the resort. Since all of you guys have been giving me all this info I really see how dangerous it could be out there.
Jan 8 2015 5:16PM
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SpookyCat
Posts: 1232 - Karma: -2,617
Eastern.SkierMy question is what would be the ideal conditions to avoid avalanches. I know the snow can cause avalanches when the top hardens over the soft bottom. So should the snow be warmer, or is coldest possible better? Or should it be in the middle?

Ski In Peace to the skiers that were killed in the recent avalanche. Ronnie Berlack and Bryce Astle. No one deserves to die that young.



I hear if there's a big dump after a long period of super cold and icy days, the ice forms a layer similar to velcro that holds all that new snow in place. The heavier the new snow = the stronger the bond between the two layers. Also if its been super windy, its best to drop in below cornices. It acts like a shelter against the wind so the bigger the cornice, the better off you are having lunch/taking shelter underneath it.

Now to fully test the strength of the layers, you want your whole family to drop in at once. Don't make any turns right away or else you're not fully testing out the conditions, instead build up some speed and then make a dramatic, hard carve (preferably everyone all at once). If there's a risk of avy's, it will break below you every time; which makes this a desired tactic of all the seasoned pros and guides.

Remember, you want to stay away from trees because if there is a slide, the last thing you want is a tree in your way. Your safest bet is to ski down chutes and wide open gullys.

If you're out there for a long time, turn off your transceiver to save the battery. Only turn it on IF someone gets caught in a slide. Like a cellphone, you only want to turn it on in case of emergencies.

Good luck!
Jan 8 2015 5:45PM
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bieberhole69.
Posts: 654 - Karma: 1,387
JenniferGarnerI hear if there's a big dump after a long period of super cold and icy days, the ice forms a layer similar to velcro that holds all that new snow in place. The heavier the new snow = the stronger the bond between the two layers. Also if its been super windy, its best to drop in below cornices. It acts like a shelter against the wind so the bigger the cornice, the better off you are having lunch/taking shelter underneath it.

Now to fully test the strength of the layers, you want your whole family to drop in at once. Don't make any turns right away or else you're not fully testing out the conditions, instead build up some speed and then make a dramatic, hard carve (preferably everyone all at once). If there's a risk of avy's, it will break below you every time; which makes this a desired tactic of all the seasoned pros and guides.

Remember, you want to stay away from trees because if there is a slide, the last thing you want is a tree in your way. Your safest bet is to ski down chutes and wide open gullys.

If you're out there for a long time, turn off your transceiver to save the battery. Only turn it on IF someone gets caught in a slide. Like a cellphone, you only want to turn it on in case of emergencies.

Good luck!

Can a mod just ban you already
Jan 8 2015 5:47PM
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Mr.Huck
Posts: 6096 - Karma: 14,902
Thread is dildos without video. BTW this was from Loveland Pass 2 days ago.

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/747401/January-6th--2015---Loveland-Pass---Mine-Dumps
Jan 8 2015 7:40PM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,748
Mr.HuckThread is dildos without video. BTW this was from Loveland Pass 2 days ago.

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/747401/January-6th--2015---Loveland-Pass---Mine-Dumps


Yup...the snowpack I work on every day......shit is spooky. I have some gnarly pics of shit we have controlled and a couple natural slides, but I'm kind of afraid to post them.
Jan 8 2015 7:50PM
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Loco-Deer-Slayer
Posts: 1401 - Karma: 701
Holy shit that video was crazy.

There is so much spatial variability in the backcountry it's hard to have faith in those tests.

Especially depth hoar, resistant to compressional forces but once you put some lateral force... BOOM... avi. The more education I get about avi's the more afraid I become...really there is no way to be 100% certain. Just do your best to mitigate the risks.
Jan 8 2015 8:13PM
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