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Starting this thread to continue from discussion started in the rumours thread.
The ski is still a work in progress. I'm confident it will break new ground and contribute to the sport in terms of how terrain is covered and how skiing is sensed and experienced --- for the better.
The thread and discussion energizes what I'm doing and thinking, although I feel independent of how others perceive of it.. in terms of both positive and negative comments.
In general, I want to support people doing new things and pushing boundaries, but I just can't take you seriously. Like at all. Especially with a name like "meathammer".
If anyone wants to try these skis, (and the originals) I'll think about doing a "Pimp Shit Tour."
It's all a long way off, and I have no idea the cost, but I think it could be awesome.
At the end there could be some videos of people trying the skis on different terrains and their results. Some people might actually like them, or have good feedback.
I'll look at getting an audio linkup so a few people can talk to each other simultaneously and be recorded (like in Top Gun) while skiing (or out pimpin' the town.)
For most it will be a serious attempt at skiing on these newfangled designs.
Anyway, I think it could definitely be a good way of bringing people together, even just for a ski or meetup. No one can say for sure if they like them or not until they try them (and are sufficiently interested to do so.)
onenerdykidIn general, I want to support people doing new things and pushing boundaries, but I just can't take you seriously. Like at all. Especially with a name like "meathammer".
Well, it was suppose to be codenamed meathammer until a real name was found.
Other names I have thought about for designs are: breakbeat, executioner, super deluxe and nu-g.
You might find this interesting, but the g-forces I obtain on the original skis is very high -- throughout the day, over the entire front of the tongue. Boot fit really has to be spot on. If there are any pain points, they will be amplified (especially on the heel, instep, arches.) The shin can get painful, because the thin muscle covering it can be built up over a few days so after a few days there is no pain.
Heel fit has to be spot on too because there is a lot of forward lean while skiing... similar position to using a segway or solo wheel.
I used Atomix Hawx 110 in 2012 in St Anton. Awesome boot for my right foot. But the left foot there was some rubbing on my left heel, so I had to return them. It really takes away from the enjoyment to have any pain. It's weird because I wouldn't advise people to use these skis unless they were super happy with their boots.
HC.OGYou might find this interesting, but the g-forces I obtain on the original skis is very high -- throughout the day, over the entire front of the tongue. Boot fit really has to be spot on. If there are any pain points, they will be amplified (especially on the heel, instep, arches.)
Are you sure that's not because you ski them like a complete penis?
Completely aside from the full-speed skiing through lift lines and the cutting off little kids while attempting this heart-carving business through beginner areas.
As above, I don't think anybody takes you seriously any more, even though they might once have wanted to.
rozboonAre you sure that's not because you ski them like a complete penis?
I take that as a compliment. Really. I keep my body straight and hard throughout the entire turn and while changing edge. I don't keep my upper body facing downhill. I am as erect my spirit and my spine. Chicks dig it. I am not ass-centered.
Also, since 2013 I've raised my vibration, with crystals and music creation.
Anyhow, like you and Sharkweak from NZ, I skiied Mt Ruapehu (both sides in 2002) -- first year of carving without poles, not knowing I was heartcarving. And to note, people were staring at me, also instructors were copying me (I saw that a few times) -- groups of instructors starting to carve either without poles or holding them up with two hands after seeing me from the chair. People were asking what I was doing. I really liked NZ, but I couldn't believe how many lies I got from people - uninhibited lying about anything and everything. Just sayin'. That year I remember many people died skiing.
At the end of the day, if I am putting forward a way and style to ski without injury, with more stability and more fun, shouldn't that be taken seriously?
Hate or be skeptical all you want, but I am pushing forward full-steam ahead and it's 2015 already. I've never collided with anyone or hurt anyone, let alone myself.
HC.OGI take that as a compliment. Really. I keep my body straight and hard throughout the entire turn and while changing edge. I don't keep my upper body facing downhill. I am as erect my spirit and my spine. Chicks dig it. I am not ass-centered.
Also, since 2013 I've raised my vibration, with crystals and music creation.
Anyhow, like you and Sharkweak from NZ, I skiied Mt Ruapehu (both sides in 2002) -- first year of carving without poles, not knowing I was heartcarving. And to note, people were staring at me, also instructors were copying me (I saw that a few times) -- groups of instructors starting to carve either without poles or holding them up with two hands after seeing me from the chair. People were asking what I was doing. I really liked NZ, but I couldn't believe how many lies I got from people - uninhibited lying about anything and everything. Just sayin'. That year I remember many people died skiing.
At the end of the day, if I am putting forward a way and style to ski without injury, with more stability and more fun, shouldn't that be taken seriously?
Hate or be skeptical all you want, but I am pushing forward full-steam ahead and it's 2015 already. I've never collided with anyone or hurt anyone, let alone myself.
lol none of that makes sense.
Also how the hell is this thing going to stop sluff
You're not dependent on slarving to slow down (ie oversteering.) You can really carve the pow (I am thinking Craig Kelly snowboarding -- pumping the pow), and hone your exact route down a face. Thus, the emphasis with the Meathammers becomes "where do I want to go" (and your options expand because of the increased agility,) rather than "how do I control my speed and make it to the bottom in one piece without my sluff catching me" with say the Magic J. There will be sluff, but it will be less.
I also think a new type of turn will be possible (understeering.)
Anyhow, that's just my prediction. I might be wrong, but I don't think I am far off from the truth. With the original model, I never intended it to be a pow ski at all. It just turned out to be awesome in it (from the little I got)
Click the link above to see my pow seg from my TGR colab entry 2013 (it's the final third of the video.) -- the main criticism was that I don't go fast enough (and the pow was not deep enough.) Anyhow, the new ski should fix that. BTW I think I'll push the length up ever so slightly and thin the tail slightly.
HC.OGAt the end of the day, if I am putting forward a way and style to ski without injury, with more stability and more fun, shouldn't that be taken seriously?
No.
The problem is that 99% of people think your idea lacks merit, and NOTHING you have presented thus far does anything to convince us otherwise.
All we see is someone skiing in a rather exaggerated manner on a pair of pointy snowblades. The fundamentals of the idea have been roundly explored already, and what seriously grates with people (and makes you the subject of much ridicule) is your continued insistence that this is revolutionary, somehow the way forward, and that we are all somehow ignorant for not seeing it the same way. There is nothing at all conceptually or fundamentally original about what you are doing - it has been tried and generally rejected. But let me guess, we're all wrong.
I mean, if you enjoy it then sure, whatever, you keep doing your thing. But if you haven't realised yet, nobody else thinks you're skiing's messiah.
As for the instructors without poles... that's a collection of drills that has been around forever and ever, hate to burst your bubble but you actually didn't inspire a new and revolutionary way of teaching skiing - but the fact that you thought you had says quite a lot about you in general.
HC.OGI take that as a compliment. Really. I keep my body straight and hard throughout the entire turn and while changing edge. I don't keep my upper body facing downhill. I am as erect my spirit and my spine. Chicks dig it. I am not ass-centered.
Also, since 2013 I've raised my vibration, with crystals and music creation.
Anyhow, like you and Sharkweak from NZ, I skiied Mt Ruapehu (both sides in 2002) -- first year of carving without poles, not knowing I was heartcarving. And to note, people were staring at me, also instructors were copying me (I saw that a few times) -- groups of instructors starting to carve either without poles or holding them up with two hands after seeing me from the chair. People were asking what I was doing. I really liked NZ, but I couldn't believe how many lies I got from people - uninhibited lying about anything and everything. Just sayin'. That year I remember many people died skiing.
At the end of the day, if I am putting forward a way and style to ski without injury, with more stability and more fun, shouldn't that be taken seriously?
Hate or be skeptical all you want, but I am pushing forward full-steam ahead and it's 2015 already. I've never collided with anyone or hurt anyone, let alone myself.
This is a perfect example of everything you have said thus far, many word without any meaning. For example what does "i have raised my vibration, with crystals and music creation" have anything to do with skiing or even mean? Also the fact that you think you have created a new wave of instruction drills is laughable. Keeping your poles horizontal across your body is a great way of displaying the upper and lower body separation that is key to a nice groomer turn, and something that I was taught in the early 90's (notice I said it was taught to me meaning around before the 1990's). I love innovation in skiing but your skis are not this and I cant help but wonder if this is just a master troll at work.
rozboonthis is revolutionary, somehow the way forward, and that we are all somehow ignorant for not seeing it the same way.
I have a feeling with you, that anything I say will be like pissing in the wind and I am neither going to rebut nor debate you (at least not now, although I could) .. personally I would prefer a ski-off -- but goto 4:08 of my colab [time-linked here] - there I am carving up late morning, tracked-out (and slightly off piste) pow. Now what ski ski can do that this well, or to be more precise, in that style too because that's the style I want and like?
The big problem is that many people (not everyone) are blind to my style (or they don't see the uniqueness) -- that's not entirely my problem.
My advice to people who don't like anything about me or my style or skis is to just ignore, I'll keep discussion limited to this thread only. Then if still interested, wait for new information - but it could take many months.
Anyhow, getting back to ski choice and skis that can carve highly chopped up pow, that could get a whole lot of responses of ski names, but I don't think there is one that suits me or I believe will work well as the Meathammers (and to a large degree the original heartslayers too.) Importantly, I feel this is the exact type of terrain that the Meathammers are for... and it's the same terrain as in One of Those Days. Candide pretty much straight-lines between booters in that vid. If he had my new skis, he could meat-hammer all those pow tracks and get completely new and fun interesting lines down that run. I am not saying he couldn't that on his skis, but I wonder how well he could.
It'll be interesting to see what happens in One of Those Days 2 - will he be straightlining again?
Also, that justifies the name Meathammer - you are meat-hammering up other people's pow tracks in high g-force carves all day (on piste or slighly off-piste.) That is revolutionary (and that is above and beyond my ski style which is revolutionary - as are my Heartslayer skis - what ski is wider (170) what ski has a shorter radius (5.65) and what ski has a forward waist, and is also skiied without poles? If you can't see the revolution on paper let alone on film, then that shows slight retardation, and for that I don't blame you anyhow.
Let's wait for One of Those Days 2 and I'll critique it.
Raising the vibration means cancelling out negative emotions and states. Who gets in childhood tantrums? Very, very few people. Why? They've raised their vibration.
HC.OGI have a feeling with you, that anything I say will be like pissing in the wind and I am neither going to rebut nor debate you (at least not now, although I could) .. personally I would prefer a ski-off -- but goto 4:08 of my colab [time-linked here] - there I am carving up late morning, tracked-out (and slightly off piste) pow. Now what ski ski can do that this well, or to be more precise, in that style too because that's the style I want and like?
The big problem is that many people (not everyone) are blind to my style (or they don't see the uniqueness) -- that's not entirely my problem.
My advice to people who don't like anything about me or my style or skis is to just ignore, I'll keep discussion limited to this thread only. Then if still interested, wait for new information - but it could take many months.
Anyhow, getting back to ski choice and skis that can carve highly chopped up pow, that could get a whole lot of responses of ski names, but I don't think there is one that suits me or I believe will work well as the Meathammers (and to a large degree the original heartslayers too.) Importantly, I feel this is the exact type of terrain that the Meathammers are for... and it's the same terrain as in One of Those Days. Candide pretty much straight-lines between booters in that vid. If he had my new skis, he could meat-hammer all those pow tracks and get completely new and fun interesting lines down that run. I am not saying he couldn't that on his skis, but I wonder how well he could.
It'll be interesting to see what happens in One of Those Days 2 - will he be straightlining again?
Also, that justifies the name Meathammer - you are meat-hammering up other people's pow tracks in high g-force carves all day (on piste or slighly off-piste.) That is revolutionary (and that is above and beyond my ski style which is revolutionary - as are my Heartslayer skis - what ski is wider (170) what ski has a shorter radius (5.65) and what ski has a forward waist, and is also skiied without poles? If you can't see the revolution on paper let alone on film, then that shows slight retardation, and for that I don't blame you anyhow.
Let's wait for One of Those Days 2 and I'll critique it.
Raising the vibration means cancelling out negative emotions and states. Who gets in childhood tantrums? Very, very few people. Why? They've raised their vibration.
Hey Adrian, I still want to try out your skis sometime.
Heart carving getting hate shows me you kids don't remember what it was like being the only person riding twin tip skis in a park full of snowboarders. Dude made his own custom skis to pursue what he's after and loves, much like many of newschooling founding fathers.
HC.OGI have a feeling with you, that anything I say will be like pissing in the wind and I am neither going to rebut nor debate you (at least not now, although I could) .. personally I would prefer a ski-off -- but goto 4:08 of my colab [time-linked here] - there I am carving up late morning, tracked-out (and slightly off piste) pow. Now what ski ski can do that this well, or to be more precise, in that style too because that's the style I want and like?
I don't even know what I'm looking at here - the turns are barely carving, there's minimal to no base angulation, and you split-step like crazy. So what other ski can do that? Someone find me a 2015 buyers guide, start on the first page. If that's the style you want and like then, well, more power to you. I especially liked the part at ~4:35 where your tip sinks and you just about go over the front, is that a revolutionary feature too?
HC.OGThe big problem is that many people (not everyone) are blind to my style (or they don't see the uniqueness) -- that's not entirely my problem.
Call it "blind to your style" if you like but really they're just making the observation that it doesn't look very good. And no, I don't see the uniqueness. It is fundamentally the same as regular old skiing, it's just doing several of the things that are widely established as "poor". Again, if that feels good to you, whatever. But if you're going to try and convince people that your idea is worthwhile (and your persistent posting to ski forums and making of weird and wonderful videos is a testimony to that) then it absolutely is entirely your problem. Otherwise these skis sound a bit like "The Emperor's New Clothes", and you're the Heartcarve Emperor.
HC.OGAnyhow, getting back to ski choice and skis that can carve highly chopped up pow, that could get a whole lot of responses of ski names, but I don't think there is one that suits me or I believe will work well as the Meathammers (and to a large degree the original heartslayers too.)
We get it, you have weird taste in skis.
HC.OGImportantly, I feel this is the exact type of terrain that the Meathammers are for... and it's the same terrain as in One of Those Days. Candide pretty much straight-lines between booters in that vid. If he had my new skis, he could meat-hammer all those pow tracks and get completely new and fun interesting lines down that run. I am not saying he couldn't that on his skis, but I wonder how well he could.
It'll be interesting to see what happens in One of Those Days 2 - will he be straightlining again?
I have no idea what you're actually trying to suggest here. I dare say if Candide Thovex wanted to do some carved turns through chop, he would do as many as he felt like, on whatever pair of skis he happened to be on. Clearly he's not interested in it.
HC.OGAlso, that justifies the name Meathammer - you are meat-hammering up other people's pow tracks in high g-force carves all day (on piste or slighly off-piste.) That is revolutionary (and that is above and beyond my ski style which is revolutionary - as are my Heartslayer skis - what ski is wider (170) what ski has a shorter radius (5.65) and what ski has a forward waist, and is also skiied without poles? If you can't see the revolution on paper let alone on film, then that shows slight retardation, and for that I don't blame you anyhow.
In order:
Ski Duret Monstre Fat is wider. Much wider
Most snowblades and kids skis have radii in this region
Forward waist, anything where you mount it behind the traditional midsole line. I think telemarkers have been doing it for years
And skied without poles? Half of Newschoolers skis without poles these days. What happens if you ski these WITH poles? Do they turn into Meatspinners?
Forgive me if I still can't see how it's revolutionary.
You seem to be conflating "unique" with "revolutionary" - the latter implies some sort of profundity or improvement of something.
Uniqueness doesn't necessarily make something good.
HC.OGLet's wait for One of Those Days 2 and I'll critique it.
I'm sure Candide will be holding his breath, awaiting your feedback.
HC.OGRaising the vibration means cancelling out negative emotions and states. Who gets in childhood tantrums? Very, very few people. Why? They've raised their vibration.
Importantly, I feel this is the exact type of terrain that the Meathammers are for... and it's the same terrain as in One of Those Days. Candide pretty much straight-lines between booters in that vid. If he had my new skis, he could meat-hammer all those pow tracks and get completely new and fun interesting lines down that run. I am not saying he couldn't that on his skis, but I wonder how well he could.
It'll be interesting to see what happens in One of Those Days 2 - will he be straightlining again?
First off I would just like to say that the whole point of that video was that Candide does and will always send like a boss. This does not mean low speed "carve" turns (quotations because I watched you carve and I would not call the turns you make with lack of almost any edge angle carving) it means straight lining for speed and boosting. Guaranteed if there is a one of those days 2 it will not feature turns that any average skier could make.
Raising the vibration means cancelling out negative emotions and states. Who gets in childhood tantrums? Very, very few people. Why? They've raised their vibration.
First off this is incorrect, many, many adults have childish tantrums all the time. To prove this point you need look no further than watching fox news for about 10 minutes. Also where do the crystals come in? Again I reiterate I think you are a troll.
Also just a tangent but Rozboon I agree with you wholeheartedly, however, in this case he is the salesman with the new clothes and we the public are the unwitting emperor.
I'm not trying to sell anyone anything. Right now I am looking for someone to build the ski, then I am looking to tour with it and meet people who want to try it, (as well as the original model.) If there's a whole bunch of people that don't want to try it, fine, don't meet, don't read this thread for much longer (or until there's new information.) Just move on.
btw, I have to add, that one problem I've had consistently is that many people have some preconceived idea of carving, they look at me and see "well, he's not doing this, and instead he's doing that" .. hence he is not "carving." Thus, heartcarve is a troll.
No, my idea of carving is flexible to change and in a state of flux.
I am almost tempted to say such minds who are supercritical of me have been unduly influenced by ski instructors, and are closed. It does not mean you are unintelligent (although some people I think are pretty dumb.) Incidentally, I think such people are the type of people that need to heartcarve the most because of the sensation and elation achieved and a sense of freedom in the mind. (no pain, no fear, no worries.)
Also, this is why I stick to the NS forum. I am seeking the "New."
rozboonForgive me if I still can't see how it's revolutionary.
You seem to be conflating "unique" with "revolutionary" - the latter implies some sort of profundity or improvement of something.
ahhh, I didn't want to add more to this thread, but are there any skis with a tail wider than the tip?
HC.OGbtw, I have to add, that one problem I've had consistently is that many people have some preconceived idea of carving, they look at me and see "well, he's not doing this, and instead he's doing that" .. hence he is not "carving." Thus, heartcarve is a troll.
No, my idea of carving is flexible to change and in a state of flux.
I am almost tempted to say such minds who are supercritical of me have been unduly influenced by ski instructors, and are closed. It does not mean you are unintelligent (although some people I think are pretty dumb.) Incidentally, I think such people are the type of people that need to heartcarve the most because of the sensation and elation achieved and a sense of freedom in the mind. (no pain, no fear, no worries.)
Also, this is why I stick to the NS forum. I am seeking the "New."
HC.OGahhh, I didn't want to add more to this thread, but are there any skis with a tail wider than the tip?
Ok So I feel like by even responding I am validating your life under whichever bridge it is where you dwell so this will be my last reply.
First I would like to say that there is a reason that there is a "preconceived" notion of carving that many of us hold. This would be that over the many, many years skiing has been around there has been a group of, lets call them "professional ski gurus" whom have made it their mission to find the most efficient ways of maintaining speed whilst making a turn and then to pass this knowledge unto the masses. This most efficient way includes rolling your ankles allowing for your skis edge to engage (meaning hold your weight), keeping upper/lower body separation, a slightly forward athletic stance and staying centered over your hips. With all of these attributes your skis will cut through the snow without scrubbing speed, thus the "carve".
What you are doing may be what you like and I never want to tell somebody that they shouldn't do what feels good. However, this being said when you try to push your "new" (poor whatever you want to call it) technique, (which, by the way has many of the established ways found to decrease efficiency in a turn) as the definition of something that many of us have had defined by a legitimate body of knowledge, you will have pushback ie: negative comments.
The reason I had called you a troll is because while you had offered many comments as to why we were all dumb for not liking your product you have provided almost no engineering knowhow (or general ski/skiing knowledge for that matter) that proves any of your assertions. Your last comment also feeds to this notion in that you did not have anything constructive to say only that you needed to bump your thread with a question that could be answered by a simple search.
To conclude if this really is the way forward and you are not a green dreadlocked monster come out to haunt us from under the bridge, then put your money where your heartcarve is; whomever suggested you need to pull a McConkey and blast down a spine was right. This community thrives on stoke and if you could provide a little that applies to more than just yourself and one or two curious members we would all be grateful.
- definitely not interested in bumping the thread just to get attention
- assuming people are ignoring it who have decided to do so
- planning out a new "claim pic" atm
- remember instructors are influenced by strict FIS ski design rules and keeping students on the cowpath
- remember skis were pencil thin for a long time, influencing how people think about skiing
- new materials and snowboard designs have lead to new shapes since say late 90's
- technique has always been changing in skiing... because of new/different skis due to materials and manufacturing techniques
- powder technique has changed a lot recently due to fatter skis... ie slarving
- I haven't found a ski with tail wider than tip (so that'll be a claim)
- any ski with waist forward of midline (haven't found one as yet -- so that'll be a claim)
- I want the revolution to be televised on the tour
- if skiing was so perfect, why are there so many injuries
- sluff is a major problem in pow (a preoccupation)
- catching an edge is a problem on groomers (a preoccupation)
- I'm proposing to have solved that, and many injury issues (but not fully claiming to have done so yet.)
IF this is just a very elaborate troll, then congratulations. This is amazingly executed. If not, i think, we all think, that you're a bit of a plum tart.
I am very, very confused. You ski straight and upright? Why? Why do you ski with an erection? What advantage does this extra cambered ski with no camber have over a set of cheap rental carving skis? Why does it look like a double ended penis? Why does it have such a ridiculous name? Why do have an obsession with penises? That's not a very good marketing tool. Is designing this ski your full time job? Why did many people die when you were skiing in NZ? Did your pointy skis have something to do with it? I just don't get it.
Serious questions - why are you advertising this when the ski hasn't been manufactured yet? Where is your actual proof that this ski is a game changer? You can't possibly say that without feedback from people that have used the ski, which they haven't because it doesn't exist. Are you marketing a new ski, or a new skiing technique? If it's the latter then that's a terrible idea. Is this a carving ski, a powder ski, a park ski? What?
I just can't understand anything. Is this a troll?
I wish you all the best with your penis skis and hope that you make us all regret ever doubting you. But I don't think that will happen.
I definitely want to try a slalom ski mounted center and reversed, just for curiosity's sake. If someone wants to try that and post to thread.. awesome.
The issue with sluff comes from slarving. Personally I find the technique repulsive -- pushing so much snow from under you to slow down.
I found on Heartslayers I could carve the pow (see the pic higher in thread.) Yes, I couldn't go so fast in the pow on those those skis (well maybe going slower would be good for steep descents anyhow) so the Meathammers being larger should fix that speed issue.
This thread is primarily about finding a manufacturer to make the skis, and to announce the tour and get some feedback. The fact that it is bumped up so much isn't really the best outcome for it I suppose as people end up frustrated... I suggest to ignore the thread .
I'm proposing more carved turns in the pow. Less sluff too.
**This post was edited on Dec 28th 2019 at 6:32:38am
Why are you so proud of the fact that your tails are wider than your tips? You keep repeating it over and over as if it's actually something to be proud of
EggsOverSteezy - "I love innovation in skiing but your skis are not this"
rozboon - "There is nothing at all conceptually or fundamentally original about what you are doing - it has been tried and generally rejected... Forgive me if I still can't see how it's revolutionary."
So then I posed the question - "are there any skis with a tail wider than the tip?"
No one could answer that. And it's my claim now (first and only time) in that pic.
EggsOverSteezy - "I love innovation in skiing but your skis are not this"
rozboon - "There is nothing at all conceptually or fundamentally original about what you are doing - it has been tried and generally rejected... Forgive me if I still can't see how it's revolutionary."
So then I posed the question - "are there any skis with a tail wider than the tip?"
No one could answer that. And it's my claim now (first and only time) in that pic.
So fucking what?!?
like I said earlier. take any ski and mount it backwards. I think I did answer that question.
nutz.like I said earlier. take any ski and mount it backwards. I think I did answer that question.
You could also mount it diagonally, sideways (the first side-slipping focused ski), saw it in half (rax style), or use it as an exercise device. I am talking about using a product as it was designed and intended. Furthermore, there is no ski that fits the dimensions I want for it to be an adequate "off-label backwards ski."
I read that McConkey took waterskis into the pow only after many people were questioning his Volant Spatulas at the time. So he thought, "you know what, screw it, I'll just take some waterskis into the pow to satisfy everyone." Not a bad idea.. there's a vid here:
Should I take my Nordica skis and re-mount them backwards and do a McConkey for you? Should that be another claim.. "the wacko that was first to carve a reverse mounted SL-type ski." Actually it might even be a good publicity stunt... but such a troll move, and I am not a troll. But you could do it... it would be NUTZ.
With the Heartslayer, I wanted a ski that was future-proof: something that would be timeless and never need change. Well, it does what it does, but it's not the be all and end all that I would've liked (people change.) I found weaknesses, or rather new opportunities so I came up with the Meathammers (and likely more skis afterward if/when the MH happens.)
I also think a new type of turn will be possible (understeering.)
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but you want to understeer on skis? You want to try to turn but continue going straight?
You would essentially be straightlining, which is what you hated on Candide Thovex for doing. Understeer is terrifying and dangerous. Just watch any auto race, Formula 1 especially, and watch what happens when cars understeer.
gapersarefriendsAlso, correct me if I'm wrong, but you want to understeer on skis? You want to try to turn but continue going straight?
You would essentially be straightlining, which is what you hated on Candide Thovex for doing. Understeer is terrifying and dangerous. Just watch any auto race, Formula 1 especially, and watch what happens when cars understeer.
I wasn't hating on Candide, only looking with a more critical eye than when I first saw that vid.
The understeer would be to set you up for the proper turn when you decide to edge down. I am fairly confident it can be done, because I have already done the slay move -- you go from a carve into a slide by dropping your weight down whilst in a carve (should I post a vid? -- that's the beauty of the Heartslayer (and forward waisted skis, I suspect) -- you get full-force, complete edge contact (until the shudders kick in)). So it's like standing in the middle of a seesaw: no side can pull you down.
With the Heartslayer, the shudders kick in on hard groomers so I think the tail should be widened for those runs.
With the understeer you'd twist and drop (I think it'd possible in pow) -- then when ready, you stand up and start carving. So it'd be twist, wait, stand. (just my prediction)
I think with the seesaw analogy, it'd be possible to do more moves but I haven't thought of them yet.
HC.OGI think with the seesaw analogy, it'd be possible to do more moves but I haven't thought of them yet.
Seesaw might be another suitable name
Although, I think I prefer Meathammer - it's about hammering down any terrain (carving, slaying, other) that comes your way (almost like a high-performance 4wd - it really doesn't matter what you drive over because you can power over it with ease, and it's less stress that way too for the driver.)
A pure pow ski - basically the Meathammer with full reverse camber could be called the Seesaw.
gapersarefriendsso you would set up for the carve by understeering into it?
Yeah, typically to go into a carve from straightlining, all you'd do is unweight one leg (basically lift it - easy enough.) Then you'd fall slightly to the side and begin turning (tons of little nuances to play around with though - but that's the basic movement.)
With the understeer, you'd twist your body (almost like doing a spin off a jump) but you'd drop down, not push up like popping a jump. When ready to turn, you'd either pull up the inside leg, or push down the outside leg - I think a bit of both and start turning.
The key (I think) would be to seesaw (leaning back and/or forward) a bit to keep the entire movement smooth.
Also, I think it should be possible to do this understeering both on groomer and pow.
Now that I think about it, I think oversteering is possible too... seesaw forward to oversteer (while twisting), seesaw back to understeer (while twisting.)
You could also start low and extend up during the twist.. I'm not sure the result though.
Given that these are supposed to be powder skis (or at least relatively powder oriented) what's the point in the larger tip than tail? Other than "hurr durr different"?
Do you actually understand the effect of something like that in terms of flotation? Why do you think some powder specific skis use a pin-tail design, or swallow-tail? It's to encourage the tail to sink more than the tip. Unlike the Meatspinner which is going to want to dive the tips... and you'll cause a whole lot of sluff when you go over the front.
I also don't really understand your preoccupation with sluff. I suspect you've never skied properly steep, deep snow. Considering that, carving or slarving or whatever, your edges are ineffectual, you are turning on the base of the ski, and the basic physics of turning mean that you are going to displace snow = sluff. Not producing sluff is like asking a boat to not produce a wake or a waterskier to not cause a spray when turning.
Basically the only way to not get sluff in steep, deep snow is to straightline.
HC.OGYeah, typically to go into a carve from straightlining, all you'd do is unweight one leg (basically lift it - easy enough.) Then you'd fall slightly to the side and begin turning (tons of little nuances to play around with though - but that's the basic movement.)
With the understeer, you'd twist your body (almost like doing a spin off a jump) but you'd drop down, not push up like popping a jump. When ready to turn, you'd either pull up the inside leg, or push down the outside leg - I think a bit of both and start turning.
you are either awful at explaining this or this this is already completely possible on a normal ski
Yeah - you're going to displace snow as you create a track in it, but you're not going to spray it out from under you to create the friction needed to cause you to slow down or turn. (I'm not saying you cannot do that, I am saying you don't have-to do that.)
I think the exact physics entails creating a harder piece of snow under the ski that will instigate a turn against the softer pow around it. *I'm not sure the wording, but I do know the feeling.* Also, the full reverse camber of the Heartlayer ski has a carving effect. This is part of the reason why I want the MH to have an amplified rocker section - to give it pow-carve abilities (as well as straightline flotation by keeping tips above snow.))
In a nutshell, if you have a forward waist ski, it makes sense to have a larger tail than front-tip because the tail is further away from the waist than the front: more distance means more radians (right word?) to fill, and a larger tail.
I know in practice that a larger tail is needed because the Heartslayers shuddered on hard groomers, there wasn't enough tail force in the turn (on soft groomers they were fine - on hard groomers I was on the lookout for soft patches of snow to turn on.) The big question is how much extra tail is needed. This doesn't matter so much in pow, but it does matter on groomers (the Heartslayers were heaps of fun in pow - a little slow though.) The MH is for groomers too, so I have to make the most educated guess possible on the tail dimensions required to minimize the shudders.
Additionally, a full reverse cambered ski should be slightly better for the under/oversteering mentioned in my previous post. (the MH has a flat bottom)
On the Heartslayers, I never fell forward even once, not even when I tried to and leaned forward as much as I could when straighlining in pow. I was actually scared to do so because of how many times I've flown forward doing that on conventional cambered skis. That's what happens when you have a 170 nose width and full reverse camber - full flotation, lean forward as much as you want. (even on a 158 cm ski!)
In reality I should really create two skis, a flat middle-bottom ski (the MH) and a full reverse camber, the Seesaw. Interestingly, the full reverse camber skis are great for groomers (once you reach their optimum speed.) They just are not good for jumps and I want the MH to have jumping (ie landing) ability.
HC.OGbut you're not going to spray it out from under you to create the friction needed to cause you to slow down or turn. (I'm not saying you cannot do that, I am saying you don't have-to do that.)
so to turn you need to make sluff?
this shit dont make sense, you have got to be trolling
-You have never skied properly deep, soft snow. You cannot "create hard snow to act against the pow" in deep, dry snow. It behaves more like a liquid. You absolutely have to displace snow. It's very, very simple physics - Newton's laws of motion - if you generate a force to the left (in order to turn) there will be an equal and opposite force to the right. If the object against which you generate this force cannot withstand it, it will be displaced. You cannot break the laws of physics with a kooky ski.
-You don't really understand the effect of geometry changes on a ski's performance. The shuddering on a reverse camber ski has nothing to do with the width, it is caused by the rapid transition between gripping and sliding in the tip and tail sections, and the relative stiffness of these sections. An "amplified rocker section" will probably exaggerate the shuddering. It is worth mentioning that if you are truly carving a ski (heart or otherwise) there will never be any shuddering. Shuddering only occurs when you skid the ski, usually to scrub speed. I guess this may have something to do with this understeer/oversteer business you were talking about earlier, which, unless you hadn't really noticed, more or less translates to "skiing fairly normally, without carving" How many models of ski have you actually ridden? I feel like you probably need to ski a LOT more shapes and styles of ski before making sweeping inferences about what different design factors actually achieve. For example, the way a full reverse camber ski rides on hardpack, and how you initiate a carve from the center of the ski rather than the entire length simultaneously (because the tip and tail aren't in contact when you initiate the turn). Finally, your reasoning for having a wider tail (forward waist) makes no sense, just choose a different sector of the arc for the sidecut...
It makes your postulations about how glorious this ski will be farfetched to say the least.
That's a huge sluff move (right side.) The big issue with carving (both on groomers and pow) (left side) for me was that it's like being locked into cruise control: you are provided with a designated speed, and you must weave around all obstacles at that speed.
Ever seen the film speed?
"A young cop must prevent a bomb exploding aboard a city bus by keeping its speed above 50 mph."
However, while in that optimum speed, it is more relaxing on the body - and you have to use that relaxation to plan ahead.. where are you going to ski to maintain your speed and fluidity? It's super intense now that I think about it. You have to be a great skier to get the hang of it quickly. That being said, the MH will have a flat mid-section, so it should be easier to failover into a slide (on groomers) should you not plan ahead well (and thus significantly reduce speed and create snow spray with the mid-section.)
I think all these HC'ing skis would be most suitable for longboarders who have a good sense of moving from carve into slide.
There are bodily position differences between heartcarving and say GS carving. I've discussed it at length elsewhere.
