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What makes a park boot a park boot?

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03gade
Posts: 856 - Karma: 3,263
First off, yes buy the boot that fits, but hypothetically speaking if I am comfortable in both a park boot and a non park boot, what is really the difference these days. I currently have an SPK 90, it'll be my 3rd seaon on them. The whole reasoning behind getting that boot was the more upright stance, but the difference in forward lean between park boots and non park boots seems to be non existent these days.

One difference I know of is that some park boots have shock absolution while others don't, I've only ever ridden park in my spks, so does anyone actually feel a difference having absorption in their boot?

Lastly, I am 6' 2" and 220lbs, so yeah, 90 flex is too soft for me, but I always figured a softer boot is better for sketchy landings, which is why I didn't go for SPK pros when I first was getting into park. Now however, there's park boots out there with 130 flexes, does anyone actually ride park with such a stiff boot? If I didn't do park I would be in a 130 flex boot for sure.

Also, I kind of suck at park, so I'm not throwing stuff of jumps larger than 30ft really, which again is why I didn't think I needed a stiffer boot.
Dec 9 2014 5:24PM
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03gade
Posts: 856 - Karma: 3,263
I should clarify: I am not actually buying a boot anytime soon, everything is a-ok at the moment, I'm just curious and looking ahead.
Dec 9 2014 5:28PM
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03gade
Posts: 856 - Karma: 3,263
I should clarify: I am not actually buying a boot anytime soon, everything is a-ok at the moment, I'm just curious and looking ahead.
Dec 9 2014 5:28PM
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last_tango
Posts: 2635 - Karma: 2,665
Well you got a few things going on beside the flex. The spk/ghost only has two buckles where a 4 buckle boot will lock you down more. The other thing about skiing in a stiff 130/140 boot you will rely on the ski flex instead of the boot taking that switch landing or when you are driving the shovel of the ski the nose will flex a lot more. A lot of boots are becoming more upright because of rocker in skis. If you look at the lange rx130 its pretty much a mellow race boot and its pretty upright.

If you can switch into one of your buddies boots that are stiffer or come to big sky and I'll give you some stiff boots to try out.
Dec 9 2014 5:43PM
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phyz
Posts: 573 - Karma: 937
I'm not sure if I agree with you on the stiffness of a boot helping out with sketchy landings. If you look at extremes of stiffness - i.e. a noodle boot and a inflexible boot - the softest boot will give you no support in your ankles and lower legs as you land, whereas a completely rigid boot would take the full load. Stiffer should translate to more direct control, but, you are compromising range of motion, which the loss of would affect control. I'm not really sure, but there must be an optimal point somewhere
Dec 9 2014 6:47PM
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Caucasian_Asian
Posts: 2447 - Karma: 1,665
That's like asking the difference between a violin and a fiddle
Dec 9 2014 7:15PM
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Park.
Posts: 2480 - Karma: 4,582
I have boots that are 115 flex and I have incredibly stiff park skis. when I land heavy switch, my boots flex, but my skis dont. My boots aren't supporting my weight properly, and I am getting shinbang because of it. I think you should take into account the flex of both your skis and your boots so they compliment eachother nicely. I learned my lesson with this and now I have to buy new skis because the shinbang is so severe. There is a point where soft boots will help you in some situations with softer skis, but if you have stiff skis, you may run into problems.
Dec 9 2014 9:35PM
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03gade
Posts: 856 - Karma: 3,263
Taking into account ski flex.....this has gotten quite more complicated than I realized.
Dec 9 2014 9:54PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,897
Not one of our freestyle athletes skis in a boot softer than 120. Stiffer boots are more responsive, offer more control, are more efficient, easier to press/butter with, and are more supportive. That said, you want to be in the proper stiffness given your subjective weight, ankle mobility, and lastly what you are used to. Boots that are too stiff cause problems, just as boots that are too soft cause problems.
Dec 10 2014 10:22AM
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introvert
Posts: 4718 - Karma: 1,482
Caucasian_AsianThat's like asking the difference between a violin and a fiddle


Which is absolutely nothing.
Dec 10 2014 11:55AM
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Caucasian_Asian
Posts: 2447 - Karma: 1,665
introvertWhich is absolutely nothing.


Exactly.
Dec 10 2014 11:58AM
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MartianMan
Posts: 1101 - Karma: 2,099
I'm curious on the mention of shock absorption though. Do park boots with shock absorbers like SPK's or Ace's make a huge difference? is it necessary to get something like that if you are skiing park in race boots?
Dec 10 2014 1:30PM
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Park.
Posts: 2480 - Karma: 4,582
MartianManI'm curious on the mention of shock absorption though. Do park boots with shock absorbers like SPK's or Ace's make a huge difference? is it necessary to get something like that if you are skiing park in race boots?


When I switched from race boots to park boots a few years back (yes I had footbeds) I noticed a huge difference and rarely had heel pain or any problems if I cased a jump or landed on boilerplate.

I watched something about Tanner Hall and when he crashed on chads the doctors said that the shock absorbers in the I'll moros prevented more detrimental damage by a large margin... So to answer your question, I would say yes.

I will mention however how my old freestyle coaches swore on race boots for the performance they brought. If you can't take the pain you shouldn't be skiing bumps or something along those lines
Dec 10 2014 3:50PM
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03gade
Posts: 856 - Karma: 3,263
onenerdykidNot one of our freestyle athletes skis in a boot softer than 120. Stiffer boots are more responsive, offer more control, are more efficient, easier to press/butter with, and are more supportive. That said, you want to be in the proper stiffness given your subjective weight, ankle mobility, and lastly what you are used to. Boots that are too stiff cause problems, just as boots that are too soft cause problems.


So now I am thinking, would jumping up to like a 120 noticeably improve my park skiing? Like I said I'm a big dude, an expert skier, but a novice park rider. I would put my self in a stiffer boot if I didn't ride park, but I thoughtthey would not be forgiving if I wasn't clean, but it sounds like the ski flex would compensate for the boot stiffness. I'm on 186cm Salomon 2012s center mounted.
Dec 10 2014 8:07PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,897
03gadeSo now I am thinking, would jumping up to like a 120 noticeably improve my park skiing? Like I said I'm a big dude, an expert skier, but a novice park rider. I would put my self in a stiffer boot if I didn't ride park, but I thoughtthey would not be forgiving if I wasn't clean, but it sounds like the ski flex would compensate for the boot stiffness. I'm on 186cm Salomon 2012s center mounted.


Most definitely yes. Like I said before, be careful not to go too stiff as that causes problems too. But with a guy your size, I would say 9/10 a 120 or 130 would be totally fine for you. Furthermore, 130 is not the stiffest flex that is made. With Atomic for example, our flexes go up to 170 (real world cup race). So in that light, 130 is not regarded as super stiff. But, always get what is appropriate for your own needs.
Dec 11 2014 3:41AM
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brian.keehn055
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parkplaygroundI have boots that are 115 flex and I have incredibly stiff park skis. when I land heavy switch, my boots flex, but my skis dont. My boots aren't supporting my weight properly, and I am getting shinbang because of it. I think you should take into account the flex of both your skis and your boots so they compliment eachother nicely. I learned my lesson with this and now I have to buy new skis because the shinbang is so severe. There is a point where soft boots will help you in some situations with softer skis, but if you have stiff skis, you may run into problems.


Get custom footbeds and make sure you are actually in the heal cup of your boot. Also, make sure the sizing is right in your boot (you should be up against the front of the liner when standing up straight unclipped) and make sure you are secured in the boot. A lot of people think that a mellow-buckled boot will give less shinbang, but that's not true. Shinbang comes from pulling away from the tongue and then pushing back into it over and over again. Stiffer boots that are the right fit and securely fastened all but eliminate shinbang, unless you are an absolute monster throwing down bombs off 60ft cliffs. I think at that point in your skiing career, shinbang is unavoidable.
Dec 11 2014 3:28PM
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Park.
Posts: 2480 - Karma: 4,582
brian.keehn055Get custom footbeds and make sure you are actually in the heal cup of your boot. Also, make sure the sizing is right in your boot (you should be up against the front of the liner when standing up straight unclipped) and make sure you are secured in the boot. A lot of people think that a mellow-buckled boot will give less shinbang, but that's not true. Shinbang comes from pulling away from the tongue and then pushing back into it over and over again. Stiffer boots that are the right fit and securely fastened all but eliminate shinbang, unless you are an absolute monster throwing down bombs off 60ft cliffs. I think at that point in your skiing career, shinbang is unavoidable.


https://www.newschoolers.com/forum/thread/797566/Unconventional-shinbang

I appreciate the advice but it my problem isn't caused from my lack of knowledge regarding bootfitting.
Dec 11 2014 5:12PM
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03gade
Posts: 856 - Karma: 3,263
onenerdykidMost definitely yes. Like I said before, be careful not to go too stiff as that causes problems too. But with a guy your size, I would say 9/10 a 120 or 130 would be totally fine for you. Furthermore, 130 is not the stiffest flex that is made. With Atomic for example, our flexes go up to 170 (real world cup race). So in that light, 130 is not regarded as super stiff. But, always get what is appropriate for your own needs.


Ok, thanks, I may be boot shopping in that case.

But now back to my original question.... what makes a park boot a park boot?

For example, according to you website, the overload is the only thing that comes up under "park" but that's only up to a 100 flex. So what are all the Atomic athletes on, and why is it not considered a "park" boot by Atomic? Also, whats the reasoning behind 2 (or 3) buckles for park boots?
Dec 11 2014 5:34PM
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NPRM
Posts: 689 - Karma: 339
I'm 5'9" and weigh 150 lb's, I ski Atomic overloads (120 flex) and they are a park boot, and I ski on Volkl Walls which are fairly stiff and I have never had a problem I love stiff boots and I love stiff skis, its partly preference
Dec 11 2014 8:16PM
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03gade
Posts: 856 - Karma: 3,263
NPRMI'm 5'9" and weigh 150 lb's, I ski Atomic overloads (120 flex) and they are a park boot, and I ski on Volkl Walls which are fairly stiff and I have never had a problem I love stiff boots and I love stiff skis, its partly preference


Yeah, I just found out about the existence of that boot, not on their website currently. I've tried the live fit on before and loved it... i think I found my boot, I have a feeling they are sold out though which is why they aren't on the website. I'm sure onenerdykid will answer that one.
Dec 11 2014 11:49PM
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03gade
Posts: 856 - Karma: 3,263
Wow answered my own question from another thread:

If you've got a wide foot, give them look (the other boots you are looking at are good options for wide feet as well).

From a feature/benefit standpoint, our liner has 10mm of silicon behind the heel to help cushion your heel on switch landings, as well as 3mm of EVA foam under the heel. Obviously, if we just slapped 10mm of cushioning behind your heel it would make the boot feel shorter, so we engineered a special heel cup that allows the liner to fit normally. This idea came straight from the input of our riders, specifically Andreas Hatveit who wears the boot on a daily basis.

The shell also automatically expands to the width of your foot. This helps for obvious fit reasons, but also on landings when your foot flattens and splays in the shell. Your foot now has somewhere to go besides smashing into hard plastic.

That's just some of the features behind the boot, but as always... get what fits you the best.
Dec 12 2014 12:05AM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
Aha I so wish a local shop carried Atomic products so I could at the least try them on. Most shops aren't even doing enough sales to bring in current model year product though so, the chances of them picking up any of the Atomic line is slim to none...
Dec 12 2014 12:12AM
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rtl32
Posts: 679 - Karma: 1,161
Guys, a 5mm thick piece of foam under your foot bed isn't going to do anything except for cause inconsistencies and make your energy transfer less efficient. You have knees for a reason, that's what absorbs the shock! It might work the way a screamer does in climbing by decreasing the initial shock load at once but I think when you really flex your boot the way it would change underneath your foot would make it not worth it.

I ski Saloman X-Max 100's but I added another bolt in the back to make them 110 ish. When I'm ripping around on my race skis I wish I had gotten the X-Max 130, and when I land in the park I feel it is a little too flexy. However I am no native to park so that is a good thing (for now) until it becomes natural to me like race style carving does. When I step up to bigger jumps and more technical shit you can all expect me to step into a pair of 130s (maybe 140's if I can find one that fits well.


I think the main difference, as stated above, is the location of buckles on the boot. A high performance or race boot will have at least 4 (exception is backcountry/big mountain boots). They are a little more forgiving to shocks and probably dampen your sensitivity to everything as well. I don't know for sure though, my last park boot was way back when I was a gaper 7th grader..
By the way I'm 6' and 190lbs.
Dec 12 2014 1:28AM
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