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Having avalanche gear when nobody else does

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SKI-J
Posts: 45 - Karma: 163
When out on season I ski a lot of off piste with friends without any safety equipment.
Fortunately I've never been involved in any avalanche but last season two Danish skiers were killed in an avalanche within days of me skiing the same run which shook me up a little.
Now I'm interested in buying some avi gear but I've only ever met one seasonaire with an avalanche transceiver, shovel and probe.
My question is, what would be the point in buying my own avalanche gear if nobody else has it? Would an airbag be a better option? What are your thoughts?
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Nov 9 2014 7:28AM
73 10
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skier58284
Posts: 1705 - Karma: 5,366
A transponder (beacon) only helps if someone else has one as well. Even if your friends don't, a search party might, but chances are you'll be dead way before they reach you. Yeah, an airbag pack would be useful, but you shouldn't be skiing in avalanche terrain without people who have avalanche equipment. Tell your friends to take avalanche training and buy avalanche equipment or find new friends.
Nov 9 2014 7:32AM
21 0
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FrankerZ
Posts: 223 - Karma: 1,129
You should get a beacon, shovel and probe and learn how to use them and get some basic education before going off-piste.
An avy course would be suitable too if you're going a bit further away from the lifts.
An airbag is a great thing to have but before that you should have a beacon, shovel and probe. Also, safety equipment shouldn't affect your desicion making and shouldn't be used as a false sense of security.
Check out ortovox's website. They have alot of videos about avalanche safety.
Nov 9 2014 7:49AM
9 0
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RiccardoMasutti
Posts: 248 - Karma: 662
FrankerZYou should get a beacon, shovel and probe and learn how to use them and get some basic education before going off-piste.
An avy course would be suitable too if you're going a bit further away from the lifts.
An airbag is a great thing to have but before that you should have a beacon, shovel and probe. Also, safety equipment shouldn't affect your desicion making and shouldn't be used as a false sense of security.
Check out ortovox's website. They have alot of videos about avalanche safety.


Agree with this user. + if you can a GPS will be your best option
Nov 9 2014 8:40AM
0 2
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RiccardoMasutti
Posts: 248 - Karma: 662
FrankerZYou should get a beacon, shovel and probe and learn how to use them and get some basic education before going off-piste.
An avy course would be suitable too if you're going a bit further away from the lifts.
An airbag is a great thing to have but before that you should have a beacon, shovel and probe. Also, safety equipment shouldn't affect your desicion making and shouldn't be used as a false sense of security.
Check out ortovox's website. They have alot of videos about avalanche safety.


Agree with this user. + if you can a GPS will be your best option
Nov 9 2014 8:41AM
0 0
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RiccardoMasutti
Posts: 248 - Karma: 662
FrankerZYou should get a beacon, shovel and probe and learn how to use them and get some basic education before going off-piste.
An avy course would be suitable too if you're going a bit further away from the lifts.
An airbag is a great thing to have but before that you should have a beacon, shovel and probe. Also, safety equipment shouldn't affect your desicion making and shouldn't be used as a false sense of security.
Check out ortovox's website. They have alot of videos about avalanche safety.


Agree with this user. + if you can a GPS will be your best option
Nov 9 2014 8:41AM
0 1
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shwesoni
Posts: 94 - Karma: 63
I'd say that at least a shovel and sonde are must-haves not just for you, but for your entire crew! I'm not quiet sure what to think about airbags tho...
Nov 9 2014 8:49AM
0 0
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
when the shit hit's the fan there are 2 types of people.
those w/ the equipment and training to potentially make a difference in the outcome
and bystanders.
Nov 9 2014 8:58AM
14 0
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SKI-J
Posts: 45 - Karma: 163
Sh4dowA transponder (beacon) only helps if someone else has one as well. Even if your friends don't, a search party might, but chances are you'll be dead way before they reach you. Yeah, an airbag pack would be useful, but you shouldn't be skiing in avalanche terrain without people who have avalanche equipment. Tell your friends to take avalanche training and buy avalanche equipment or find new friends.


I work the winters in france, I dont have a local mountain so its not like I have a specific group of friends I ski with, theres new people every year, I just ski with whoevers up for skiing some pow that day, and like I said most seasonaires dont have avi gear, and if I did, you dont know how hard its going to be to get someone else to spend a months wage on gear they might only use for the one season so I can ski safely with them. Nevermind getting them to take training on their 1 day off a week...
Nov 9 2014 9:17AM
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SKI-J
Posts: 45 - Karma: 163
Buy 2 sets, learn some stuff, then train the motherduck I'm skiing with that day on how to use it, even then they'll probably forget, and I'll die under 3 feet of snow, £600 poorer.....

Is this really my only option?

If I just had a beacon and skiing just lift assisted stuff, would I die before other help arrived?
Nov 9 2014 9:22AM
0 0
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FrankerZ
Posts: 223 - Karma: 1,129
SKI-JBuy 2 sets, learn some stuff, then train the motherduck I'm skiing with that day on how to use it, even then they'll probably forget, and I'll die under 3 feet of snow, £600 poorer.....

Is this really my only option?

If I just had a beacon and skiing just lift assisted stuff, would I die before other help arrived?


You should never be skiing alone off piste.
Nov 9 2014 9:56AM
2 0
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,751
SFBv420.0when the shit hit's the fan there are 2 types of people.
those w/ the equipment and training to potentially make a difference in the outcome
and bystanders.


All there is to it. And you left out the part that a lot of people with training and equipment will also become bystanders.

I'm sort of confused by the OP. Are you skiing within avy controlled boundaries of a ski resort or are you touring in the back country? Going out area gates to sidecountry (Back country)? To me "off piste" means "not groomed ski area terrain", but if you're referring to back country, then this thread quickly goes from curious to, what the fuck are you thinking.

There's really a single reason to not get an aiare 1, a beacon, probe and shovel if you spend any time in mountainous terrain with snow on it. So, my blanket statement is that you should get educated, practice, and fork over the loot for the gear. However, if you're exclusively skiing within the boundaries of a ski area and you aren't on a "pro track", I really don't think they're all that necessary. Yes, in bounds accidents on open terrain have happened, but they are really rare.

I will say, if you are skiing natural terrain without that equipment and with other people without that equipment and training, your chances for a bad outcome are going to increase. Also, if you ski with someone that doesn't have a shovel or probe, give them yours. trust me.
Nov 9 2014 10:16AM
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SKI-J
Posts: 45 - Karma: 163
FrankerZYou should never be skiing alone off piste.


I don't.
Nov 9 2014 10:17AM
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
i can't imagine yurp specially in the motherland of exstream skiing that it can be much harder than any other local to find competent like minded junkies
who don't care to OD
i'm gonna disagree with touring solo it's like most anything in life with risks involved
if youre not afraid to die alone you don't need a partner.
it is entirely possible to learn a lot about yourself, snowpack, and decisions
in a manner conducive to not dieing
on some levels it's easier the dynamics of a group of 1 is easy
Nov 9 2014 10:25AM
0 1
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SKI-J
Posts: 45 - Karma: 163
casualAll there is to it. And you left out the part that a lot of people with training and equipment will also become bystanders.

I'm sort of confused by the OP. Are you skiing within avy controlled boundaries of a ski resort or are you touring in the back country? Going out area gates to sidecountry (Back country)? To me "off piste" means "not groomed ski area terrain", but if you're referring to back country, then this thread quickly goes from curious to, what the fuck are you thinking.

There's really a single reason to not get an aiare 1, a beacon, probe and shovel if you spend any time in mountainous terrain with snow on it. So, my blanket statement is that you should get educated, practice, and fork over the loot for the gear. However, if you're exclusively skiing within the boundaries of a ski area and you aren't on a "pro track", I really don't think they're all that necessary. Yes, in bounds accidents on open terrain have happened, but they are really rare.

I will say, if you are skiing natural terrain without that equipment and with other people without that equipment and training, your chances for a bad outcome are going to increase. Also, if you ski with someone that doesn't have a shovel or probe, give them yours. trust me.


Its all in resort not proper back country stuff, we dont stray far from the lifts but I dont think its avy controlled, we duck ropes with danger signs see.... and like I said last year some dudes died on a run I did within a week of me skiing that same run, thats why I'm looking into some gear for this season, but confused as whats the point if I'm the only guy with it?
Nov 9 2014 10:27AM
0 0
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,751
SFBv420.0i can't imagine yurp specially in the motherland of exstream skiing that it can be much harder than any other local to find competent like minded junkies
who don't care to OD
i'm gonna disagree with touring solo it's like most anything in life with risks involved
if youre not afraid to die alone you don't need a partner.
it is entirely possible to learn a lot about yourself, snowpack, and decisions
in a manner conducive to not dieing
on some levels it's easier the dynamics of a group of 1 is easy


Yup. OP, you can't find a group where you'd be the least equipped, experienced and trained as opposed to the best? I'm guessing you're probably at least fairly young, there's gotta be some local billy bad asses round yer way to paduwan with.
Nov 9 2014 10:27AM
0 0
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SKI-J
Posts: 45 - Karma: 163
SFBv420.0i can't imagine yurp specially in the motherland of exstream skiing that it can be much harder than any other local to find competent like minded junkies
who don't care to OD
i'm gonna disagree with touring solo it's like most anything in life with risks involved
if youre not afraid to die alone you don't need a partner.
it is entirely possible to learn a lot about yourself, snowpack, and decisions
in a manner conducive to not dieing
on some levels it's easier the dynamics of a group of 1 is easy


YO I DONT SKI ALONE.
Nov 9 2014 10:31AM
1 0
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SKI-J
Posts: 45 - Karma: 163
casualYup. OP, you can't find a group where you'd be the least equipped, experienced and trained as opposed to the best? I'm guessing you're probably at least fairly young, there's gotta be some local billy bad asses round yer way to paduwan with.


Yer I guess its just a case of finding the people with the gear, it's kinda hard though, alot of the people working out in france are just doing it for a gap year so theyre not that well equipped, same with alot of the returners like myself
Nov 9 2014 10:35AM
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
SKI-JYO I DONT SKI ALONE.


i don't care if you do or don't and shouting at me aint gonna change it
some people do some don't i don't prefer it but still do it
MOVE TO CHAM BRO
Nov 9 2014 10:43AM
1 0
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JibbaTheHutt
Posts: 2132 - Karma: 1,597
i have the exact same problem bro, what i did is bought avy gear (transceiver, probe and shovel) im going to do an avy course and potentially meet people on that course, or, spam seasonaire pages on facebook until i find a group of people to ride with who are experienced.
Nov 9 2014 11:01AM
0 0
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,751
SKI-JYer I guess its just a case of finding the people with the gear, it's kinda hard though, alot of the people working out in france are just doing it for a gap year so theyre not that well equipped, same with alot of the returners like myself


It's a very different mentality here in the US vs Europe in how they treat terrain and closures. In the US, they rope off and bamboo any and every little potential hazard it seems like, whereas it's the opposite in France, Switzerland, etc. Here in CO, where everything is faceted, wind affected, poorly bonded, and all around just kind of deadly, I wouldn't ignore a Danger!! sign and duck a rope into uncontrolled terrain, particularly alone or without the proper gear and training because it would be a "reasonable" expectation that I could die.

I don't know if/what the signs you're referring to are boundary signs and don't necessarily indicate a huge leap in immediate danger, or if those signs are there specifically because the terrain you're then entering is problematic for any number of reasons, or if they're conducting control work with explosives. Where I work, there are temtping, permanent closure chutes known as the 7 sisters. Anyone can ski them I think after June 1....or maybe it's later, don't hold me to it, but before then there can be avalauncher rounds or hand charges from a chopper at ANY TIME. Those closures aren't there so patrol can squirrel it away (in fact that's an auto firing offense and enforced) or whatever, they're there because you can fucking die any number of ways, and because you could trigger a massive slide on top of an open, busy roadway.

All that's just to say that there are.....uhh......"ropes you're allowed to duck" (and I mean you're not allowed to but a patroller probably won't be a dick if he busts you, particularly if you don't seem like some fucking Chad with a deathwish.) Then, there's ropes that under no circumstances should you duck. The 7 sisters are a good example (TERRIFYING terrain trap bench deads at the pass, there's a heavily traveled mountain pass road right below the paths,NE aspect, above and near treeline, gnarly dense trees, deepy gully walls in places, lots of nice nooks and crannies to die alone in agonizing asphyxiation, etc.). I don't know which kind of rope you're ducking, but scarier, I'm not convinced YOU know what rope you're ducking.

My advice is to do research on where you're skiing. check the avy reports for the area, read accident reports, make good plans, get gear, get friends with gear and experience and training, and then go live a rad mountain lifestyle with your bros.
Nov 9 2014 11:06AM
2 0
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SKI-J
Posts: 45 - Karma: 163
JibbaTheHutti have the exact same problem bro, what i did is bought avy gear (transceiver, probe and shovel) im going to do an avy course and potentially meet people on that course, or, spam seasonaire pages on facebook until i find a group of people to ride with who are experienced.


sweet man, you uk based? where can you do avy courses?

casualIt's a very different mentality here in the US vs Europe in how they treat terrain and closures. In the US, they rope off and bamboo any and every little potential hazard it seems like, whereas it's the opposite in France, Switzerland, etc. Here in CO, where everything is faceted, wind affected, poorly bonded, and all around just kind of deadly, I wouldn't ignore a Danger!! sign and duck a rope into uncontrolled terrain, particularly alone or without the proper gear and training because it would be a "reasonable" expectation that I could die.

I don't know if/what the signs you're referring to are boundary signs and don't necessarily indicate a huge leap in immediate danger, or if those signs are there specifically because the terrain you're then entering is problematic for any number of reasons, or if they're conducting control work with explosives. Where I work, there are temtping, permanent closure chutes known as the 7 sisters. Anyone can ski them I think after June 1....or maybe it's later, don't hold me to it, but before then there can be avalauncher rounds or hand charges from a chopper at ANY TIME. Those closures aren't there so patrol can squirrel it away (in fact that's an auto firing offense and enforced) or whatever, they're there because you can fucking die any number of ways, and because you could trigger a massive slide on top of an open, busy roadway.

All that's just to say that there are.....uhh......"ropes you're allowed to duck" (and I mean you're not allowed to but a patroller probably won't be a dick if he busts you, particularly if you don't seem like some fucking Chad with a deathwish.) Then, there's ropes that under no circumstances should you duck. The 7 sisters are a good example (TERRIFYING terrain trap bench deads at the pass, there's a heavily traveled mountain pass road right below the paths,NE aspect, above and near treeline, gnarly dense trees, deepy gully walls in places, lots of nice nooks and crannies to die alone in agonizing asphyxiation, etc.). I don't know which kind of rope you're ducking, but scarier, I'm not convinced YOU know what rope you're ducking.

My advice is to do research on where you're skiing. check the avy reports for the area, read accident reports, make good plans, get gear, get friends with gear and experience and training, and then go live a rad mountain lifestyle with your bros.


Yer, I havent come accross many roped off places, theres one I remember was because of the big snow cannon things at the top I think..... but yer be scared I'm not convinced I know what rope I'm ducking.
Nov 9 2014 12:20PM
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___ASP___
Posts: 3861 - Karma: 490
Speaking from experience, I was cat skiing and both the group photographer and tail guide were caught in a class 3.5 avi, and taken 700 meters down the hill. Between our group we used the beacons and found both and were able to rescue both. The tail guide had an airbag which he was able to deploy and he ended up getting his hand above the surface of the snow. The photographer was not wearing an airbag and we had to dig just over 2 meters down to get to her.

You are an idiot if you are skiing in areas with people who have none of this gear. Buy a beacon/shovel/probe and learn how to use them. Get your friends to do the same or get new friends. At the end of the day you may be lucky and never have an avi, or your first day out you might be part of one. After seeing one first hand its something that sticks with you. IF we wouldn't have been able to save those people it would be by far the biggest regrets in my life. Luckily we were able to save both because of the tools we had available.

An avalanche is a life changing experience, mine was over 2 years ago and there are not many days I don't think about it. Do the right thing and get the gear and the training. You will thank yourself in the future.
Nov 9 2014 12:30PM
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tinkytwinky
Posts: 2451 - Karma: 1,571
I haven't posted on ns in years, but this is relevant.

Being the only one with a beacon/probe/shovel is like not having that equipment at all. If no one else in your party has a beacon than they're searching for you using stone-age tactics. Do not ski avy prone terrain without all members of your crew having avy gear- this is serious. If you want to shred back country or cut ropes or anything like that get your gear and learn how to use it.

Even the most broke skiers use avy gear because they realize how important it is. Don't be a fool.
Nov 9 2014 1:40PM
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
actually that's not true at the very least having the body finder will save sar time and potential danger exposure
and if some else in the group gets buried at least homie has a probe hopefully a first aid kit warm layers ya now the like 10 essential things to minimalise risks everyone should carry outdoors.
i almost always ski with a full kit these days as do a lot of people
and very few people in the tribe are gonna be bystanders
given the 1st rule of emergency situations don't become another victim
Nov 9 2014 2:01PM
1 0
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tinkytwinky
Posts: 2451 - Karma: 1,571
SFBv420.0actually that's not true at the very least having the body finder will save sar time and potential danger exposure
and if some else in the group gets buried at least homie has a probe hopefully a first aid kit warm layers ya now the like 10 essential things to minimalise risks everyone should carry outdoors.
i almost always ski with a full kit these days as do a lot of people
and very few people in the tribe are gonna be bystanders
given the 1st rule of emergency situations don't become another victim



this is true, carrying a probe and shovel when no one else in your crew has one is still helpful. Probes are extremely important for survival. You can spend 20 mins digging a hole 4 feet away from your homie and not find him. I remember reading somewhere that the average survival time is something like 18 minutes when you're buried.
Nov 9 2014 2:04PM
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methscratchface
Posts: 1204 - Karma: 4,445
Get some new friends who care about living
Nov 9 2014 2:13PM
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JibbaTheHutt
Posts: 2132 - Karma: 1,597
SKI-Jsweet man, you uk based? where can you do avy courses?


yeah uk based but do winter seasons in europe. Where are you heading? to my knowledge most big resorts will hold avy training, you'll have to pay but the going rate looks around 100 euros or so for the day course. I know some places do 2 or even 3 day courses where i presume you just get much more practice search time etc.
Nov 9 2014 2:43PM
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SkiBum.
Posts: 3604 - Karma: 3,971
Shadow will save you
Nov 9 2014 2:51PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,144
Two good rules to address OP.

1. Do not ski in avalanche terrain without appropriate gear and training / practice needed to use it properly.

2. Do not ski in avalanche terrain without partners who have appropriate gear and training / practice needed to use it properly.

3. An airbag is not a substitute for either of these things and if you're even thinking about it in that way, don't buy one.

Some people may be experienced enough to justifiably feel comfortable breaking the rules, but you're not (and I'm not either) and to be honest I feel like even then it's not worth the risk.

As for finding bodies, yeah it's a good point that it saves SAR time but also, I mean, you never know what kind of miracle could happen and someone's revived after being under for a while. Maybe they got lucky and got a good pocket, maybe they had an avalung in, and you didn't know about it and they're fine 45 minutes after burial (I usually have mine in). Can't know for sure until they're out. But that has to be weighed against the risk of being there and digging where there's a chance you'll end up having to be dug out yourself.
Nov 9 2014 3:11PM
1 0
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
Skiing alone is fine.

You should be confident enough that the face won't slide that you are comfortable skiing it alone. Having partners and rescue should NEVER factor into your decision making. Ever.

Don't believe me? There are a bunch of like minded folks out there.

http://freeskier.com/stories/why-decision-making-is-greater-than-a-beacon-with-drew-tabke
Nov 9 2014 4:10PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,144
I honestly think that's a really dumb way of looking at it.

Yes, you should make your decisions as if you were alone and without gear, rather than thinking, "well, this might go, but if it does my airbag / touring partners will save me". But that doesn't mean you shouldn't HAVE appropriate gear and touring partners in case something does go wrong in spite of your best intentions and careful decision making.

Everyone makes mistakes, first of all. But even if you don't, it's possible to end up in trouble even if you made all the right decisions with the information available to you. Sometimes shit just hits the fan, and in that situation you do not want to be by yourself.

It's all circumstantial; if you're in low angle terrain with a stable snowpack and there's no rational reason to expect any danger etc etc etc. then maybe you can make a calculated risk, but as a general rule it's just better to be safe.
Nov 9 2014 4:18PM
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Bum.Life
Posts: 507 - Karma: 2,608
Skiing backcountry with people who don't have the proper gear makes me think that you're skiing with people who don't have proper avalanche training or backcountry experience. If this is the case, then it kind of defeats the purpose of having people with you in the back country. I would never ski with people in that kind of terrain without proper knowledge, training, or gear. I'm really careful about who I backcountry ski with and you should be too man.
Nov 9 2014 4:23PM
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elm.
Posts: 1510 - Karma: 13,602
take a class and don't ski BC with anyone who doesn't have gear and lvl 1 avi.
Nov 10 2014 12:55AM
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jca
Posts: 4172 - Karma: 6,310
learning about snow science will keep you 100x safer than avy gear will whether you're with people or not.

you gotta know whats safe to ski and what factors affect it if youre skiing in avy terrain.
Nov 10 2014 3:28AM
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
J.D.I honestly think that's a really dumb way of looking at it.

Yes, you should make your decisions as if you were alone and without gear, rather than thinking, "well, this might go, but if it does my airbag / touring partners will save me". But that doesn't mean you shouldn't HAVE appropriate gear and touring partners in case something does go wrong in spite of your best intentions and careful decision making.

Everyone makes mistakes, first of all. But even if you don't, it's possible to end up in trouble even if you made all the right decisions with the information available to you. Sometimes shit just hits the fan, and in that situation you do not want to be by yourself.

It's all circumstantial; if you're in low angle terrain with a stable snowpack and there's no rational reason to expect any danger etc etc etc. then maybe you can make a calculated risk, but as a general rule it's just better to be safe.


Tabke's got a point there more different out side the box than dumb imo but you nailed it the whole fallacy that you learn to outsmart mother nature or people w/ certifications, experience, or snow science knowledge don't make mistakes and get caught in incidents is odd because the statistics don't support this
look at it JP, Andreas, Liz Dailey, Romero, Garre JJ and the tunnel creek incident the loveland incident. the 2 friends i lost in '12 A lot of edjucation and experience in that list.
Everyone is wired different so our decision making processes are different.
This one seems pretty easy and if you look at it from the common sense based
"protect yourself at all times" then yes get the gear learn how to use it
Having gear and knowledge is gonna make it easier to find others and possible mentors.
as someone who never took avvy 1 but had great mentors and tries to pay it forward by mentoring.
The airbag is way down on the bottom of the list of things i'd lie to seee a new patner have
Nov 10 2014 6:59AM
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SKI-J
Posts: 45 - Karma: 163
Cheers for all the replies and advice guys, I'll be sure to have a proper read through when I get a minute.
Nov 10 2014 10:54AM
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slamdunk
Posts: 186 - Karma: 857
Hey man, I have the same problem as you. I used to ski off piste without any safety gear when I was young and dumb because I thought the risk was worth it. But now being older I realise that's not true. I bought a shovel and probe as they aren't too expensive, and rent a transceiver. It's €4 a day so worked out a lot cheaper short term than buying one. If that option is available to you then I'm sure you will find it easier to persuade your friends to do that.
At one place I ski in Italy there is a lift that gives access to really good off piste and during peak season it is guarded by a policeman with a transceiver and you can only get on if you have one too.
Where are you skiing this season?
Nov 10 2014 12:48PM
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Jibberino
Posts: 2089 - Karma: 1,346
shwesoniI'd say that at least a shovel and sonde are must-haves not just for you, but for your entire crew! I'm not quiet sure what to think about airbags tho...


Useless without a beacon. Sonde is probe in English by the way. The trifecta of beacon, shovel and probe are pretty much useless if not complete.
Nov 10 2014 1:36PM
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Spiri7o
Posts: 2163 - Karma: 1,100
tinkytwinkyI haven't posted on ns in years, but this is relevant.

Being the only one with a beacon/probe/shovel is like not having that equipment at all. If no one else in your party has a beacon than they're searching for you using stone-age tactics. Do not ski avy prone terrain without all members of your crew having avy gear- this is serious. If you want to shred back country or cut ropes or anything like that get your gear and learn how to use it.

Even the most broke skiers use avy gear because they realize how important it is. Don't be a fool.


This guy knows what he's talking about
Nov 10 2014 1:39PM
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Hugh_Conway_jr
Posts: 746 - Karma: 467
Hopefully you can hook up with some who has some back country experience. Courses and gear are a great start, but nothing beats real time mentorship.

The debate over wearing beacons on resort has been going on for a while. In my opinion, if you are going to progress to slack country/ side country and the B/C then you may as well get some gear now, and start learning in areas of limited risk.

Re: Avy Bags ... there are new studies that suggest that they may not be as helpful as previously thought, however they still increase your chances of survival. They can be extremely expensive..and if you dont have a beacon, it wouldnt be my first purchase.

Last winter my friend and I were caught in a slide. We both had air bags on, but his did not deploy due to mechanical failure. I was rescued within minutes, his rescue was complicated and ultimately unsuccessful. Despite all of the top shelf gear, experienced rescuers excellent comms, early heli support, and high level first aid / resus equipment.
Nov 10 2014 7:35PM
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lukemeahan.
Posts: 1689 - Karma: 330
It's pointless an stupid unless you have a buddy(more is better) with it and are both knowledgable
Nov 10 2014 7:55PM
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SKI-J
Posts: 45 - Karma: 163
slamdunkHey man, I have the same problem as you. I used to ski off piste without any safety gear when I was young and dumb because I thought the risk was worth it. But now being older I realise that's not true. I bought a shovel and probe as they aren't too expensive, and rent a transceiver. It's €4 a day so worked out a lot cheaper short term than buying one. If that option is available to you then I'm sure you will find it easier to persuade your friends to do that.
At one place I ski in Italy there is a lift that gives access to really good off piste and during peak season it is guarded by a policeman with a transceiver and you can only get on if you have one too.
Where are you skiing this season?


Good shout, would definately be easier to persuade others to rent, I'll probably do that myself for now.
I'll be in Alp d'huez for the season again this year, pretty good resort that nobody seems to have heard of. The Park and alot of the runs are average but the bars are reasonably cheap and the powders awesome, great place for a season. Whitelines knows it http://whitelines.com/longform/locals-guide-alpe-dhuez
Nov 11 2014 9:32AM
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Jibberino
Posts: 2089 - Karma: 1,346
SKI-JGood shout, would definately be easier to persuade others to rent, I'll probably do that myself for now.
I'll be in Alp d'huez for the season again this year, pretty good resort that nobody seems to have heard of. The Park and alot of the runs are average but the bars are reasonably cheap and the powders awesome, great place for a season. Whitelines knows it http://whitelines.com/longform/locals-guide-alpe-dhuez



Well, Alpe D'Huez is actually one of the most famous European resorts. And I guarantee you that if you hook up with someone with local knowledge, you will find the off piste there anything but average!
Nov 11 2014 11:21AM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
If you meet up to go anywhere even remotely dangerous and you're the only one with gear, turn around go back to bed and delete all those peoples' numbers when you wake up.
Nov 11 2014 11:25AM
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SKI-J
Posts: 45 - Karma: 163
JibberinoWell, Alpe D'Huez is actually one of the most famous European resorts. And I guarantee you that if you hook up with someone with local knowledge, you will find the off piste there anything but average!


Well, when alot of people ask me where I've been for the last 2 seasons, I reply "Alpe d'Huez" and it's got them going like....


And yer I said the powders awesome man. Yer I meant the off piste.....
Nov 11 2014 3:21PM
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