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Bmpcc vs gh4 vs

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SamColby
Posts: 644 - Karma: 2,006
well, which is better? it's my understanding that the bmpcc would require a shit fuck of extra shit to be usable... adapter, wide glass, etc...
Oct 12 2014 3:04PM
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SamColby
Posts: 644 - Karma: 2,006
actually nvm they're both m4/3......
Oct 12 2014 3:05PM
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nutz.
Posts: 3150 - Karma: 6,712
depends on what you need, they're completely different beasts altogether.
Oct 12 2014 3:12PM
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j-cal
Posts: 693 - Karma: 3,295
Um are you talking about the diference between the pocket cinema or the production cinema?


Do you shoot skiing or action sports? If you do any black magic camera is not the right fit. Neither the pocket or production have above 30fps. For action it is a necessary to have at least 60p.

Pros of the gh4:

1.Good 4k image

2. up to 96 fps at 1080p (Noticeably more noise and artifacts)

3. relatively small files

4. Sensor Size

Cons of gh4:

1. Limited codec for color grading

2. Lack of dynamic range

3. Form Factor

4. Screen (very hard to pull focus and see the screen in bright light)

Pros of Black Magic:

1. Image is defiantly more natural and organic than the gh4 to my eye.

2. Dynamic Range

3. Codec, Proress and cinema dng (raw) are great powerful codecs

4. Size, (for certain situations, others it will be a con)

Cons of black magic:

1. No high fps

2. You need a battery solution. (external v mount or auton bouer)

3. Form Factor, very small so any hand held use is hard. Weight would need to be aded for glidecam use as well.

4. Screen (same as gh4)


Just some thought. I think bolth need alot of extras to work properly. Take a look at the fs100.
Oct 12 2014 3:40PM
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Laurent.
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 25,313
If you need to ask don't get the BMPCC.
Oct 12 2014 4:19PM
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plorr
Posts: 3131 - Karma: 528
The IQ of the BMPCC shits all over any DSLR. Fuck 4K. The dynamic range, Prores/RAW, smooth knee, lack of digital sharpening, and natural motion blur make for a much more cinematic image than a bunch of extra pixels do. But yes, it is a massive pain in the arse to rig up and use. Especially if you need useable in camera sound. The built in mic and preamp are ATROCIOUS. You can get around this by using an external recorder as a pre amp with an XLR shotgun mic run into it and a 1/4" cable from the line out into the mic jack on the camera, but thats a huge pain and makes your rig look goofy as fuck.

The battery life is also terrible (less than an hour usually), and it does have pretty bad rolling shutter, so good stabilization is critical. Card space used to be an issue when it only had RAW or ProRes HQ, but they've since added the option to shoot any of the different ProRes codecs, so if you need smaller files you can just shoot in ProRes LT (which is still a better codec than the GH4's).

Basically, if you're shooting narrative projects in a somewhat controlled environment with a sound recordist, the sacrifice in usability is 100% worth it for the quality of the image. If you're shooting anything that requires any degree of run and gun ability with useable in camera sound (like skiing does), you're better off with a GH4.
Oct 12 2014 5:57PM
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Japaneezy
Posts: 1039 - Karma: 4,267
Get a GH4 unless you wanna waste a shit ton of money for accessories. Battery life on GH4 is 100x better.
Oct 12 2014 8:50PM
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lIllI
Posts: 1255 - Karma: 1,986
Image quality is only as useful as the camera design permits. If you can comfortably rig up a BMPCC appropriately, then you will reap its benefits. If not, then those specs are meaningless.
Oct 13 2014 8:54AM
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ROCHEMAN
Posts: 49 - Karma: 109
get a gh4 with a 14 140 and one of them screen view finder things and a mic. the black magic camera is very hard to get color right on and it has tons of flaws. if you watch this guys videos you will know what i mean https://www.youtube.com/user/drumat5280. plus you might be able to hack the gh4 to get better quilty. you cant go wrong with gh4 but you can go wrong with a black magic pocket thing.

also the gh4 is still very small compared to most dslrs

oh and never buy a camera that you have to screw around with alot to get good color, it really sucks and you will be kicking yourself if you do
Oct 13 2014 10:49AM
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nutz.
Posts: 3150 - Karma: 6,712
ROCHEMANget a gh4 with a 14 140 and one of them screen view finder things and a mic. the black magic camera is very hard to get color right on and it has tons of flaws. if you watch this guys videos you will know what i mean https://www.youtube.com/user/drumat5280. plus you might be able to hack the gh4 to get better quilty. you cant go wrong with gh4 but you can go wrong with a black magic pocket thing.

also the gh4 is still very small compared to most dslrs

oh and never buy a camera that you have to screw around with alot to get good color, it really sucks and you will be kicking yourself if you do


you're wrong.... bmpcc colour is a lot better imo especially with all the leeway you get when colour editing.
Oct 13 2014 1:16PM
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dan_swagner
Posts: 351 - Karma: 680
The BMPCC gives you way better picture quality imo. and if you shoot in RAW the images look similar to what you get out of the Alexa sensor.

For image quality and control BMPCC is better.

if you need higher frame rates and want to waste money on hard drives and new tvs with 4k, then the gh4 is better.

I would pick the BMPCC and have a gopro 3+ or 4 black for anything I need to get in slow motion or 4k res.
Oct 13 2014 1:26PM
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dan_swagner
Posts: 351 - Karma: 680
and the codecs on the BMPCC are a lot better to work with in post for color grading.
Oct 13 2014 1:28PM
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Japaneezy
Posts: 1039 - Karma: 4,267
Rdwagner2and the codecs on the BMPCC are a lot better to work with in post for color grading.


If you know what you're doing. Mind you, the filesize is insanely big.
Oct 13 2014 1:58PM
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j-cal
Posts: 693 - Karma: 3,295
Rdwagner2The BMPCC gives you way better picture quality imo. and if you shoot in RAW the images look similar to what you get out of the Alexa sensor.



you get good picture quality yes. But in no way is it in the same league as the Alexa. The only other camera that is in that league in my eyes is the Epic Dragon.

A 1,000 dollar camera does not fit in the same league as a 60-70k camera.

But still nice image.
Oct 14 2014 11:06AM
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Laurent.
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 25,313
Rdwagner2and if you shoot in RAW the images look similar to what you get out of the Alexa sensor.


Oct 14 2014 11:32AM
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ROCHEMAN
Posts: 49 - Karma: 109
nutz.you're wrong.... bmpcc colour is a lot better imo especially with all the leeway you get when colour editing.



the bmpcc has better color if u know alot about color and geting it right if you watch dave doug dale on youtube he talks alot about this and he says he did not end up buying it for that reason. i do think the bmpcc would make a better camera for when your doing a big project and if you have alot of skill and dont mind having to screw around alot. but the gh4 is better if you dont want to play around alot and you just want to shoot. i also feel that the gh4 would be easer to shoot with in the park. i dont think the gh4 has beter picture and color but the gh4 dose it with al
Oct 14 2014 12:10PM
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ROCHEMAN
Posts: 49 - Karma: 109
sorry the last part of my post got screwed up i ment to say the gh4 dose it with ease
Oct 14 2014 12:12PM
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dan_swagner
Posts: 351 - Karma: 680
The range the bmpcc captures from shadows to highlights is very smooth and gives a similar image to the alexa when comparing dynamic range and details in the shadows and highlights. I'm not trying to say its at the same level as a digital cinema camera like the alexa or epic, but it gives you a closer image than you would get from any other dslr or small consumer camera. It captures a very natural look and has a smooth roll off on the highlights, unlike most cameras in the same price range that have more of a hard end on the highlights. The Dragon sensor is way better in every way but it has more clipping in the highlights than the alexa and bmpcc imo.
Oct 14 2014 2:26PM
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dan_swagner
Posts: 351 - Karma: 680
BMPCC shoots 1080p 12bit RAW and 10bit Prores 4:2:2 internally
GH4 shoots 4k and 1080p in 8bit h.264 4:2:0 internally

In my opinion the BMPCC has better image quality and a more useable file to work with in post

https://vimeo.com/79231766

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPE_nVGnnRw

https://vimeo.com/75646236

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=preneD7YY8I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPIvXQVBYlo
Oct 14 2014 3:56PM
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Laurent.
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 25,313
Rdwagner2In my opinion the BMPCC has better image quality and a more useable file to work with in pos


Using youtube compressed video in a post about image quality....
Oct 14 2014 4:07PM
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j-cal
Posts: 693 - Karma: 3,295
Rdwagner2The Dragon sensor is way better in every way but it has more clipping in the highlights than the alexa and bmpcc imo.


You must be thinking of the mx sensor. The dragon clips more than the alexa..... But certainly not the pocket cinema. Its a great camera. But you cant throw this little gem in the same league. The science and research behind the image, color, and especially highlights is very exspensive. That is why cameras like the dragon and alexa cost so much. But for 1,000 the black magic has some killer image.
Oct 14 2014 4:39PM
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wagner.robert
Posts: 1 - Karma: 10
It didn't say it's at the same level. Just closer than any other Dslr or compact camera.

And I am not basing my judgment on YouTube videos that are highly compressed. I'm basing my opinion on shooting multiple projects with the alexa, epic, bmpcc, gh3 and gh4
Oct 14 2014 4:48PM
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plorr
Posts: 3131 - Karma: 528
Rdwagner2In my opinion the BMPCC has better image quality and a more useable file to work with in post


This is the absolute truth. I even agree that as far as 1080p footage goes, the pocket's RAW is nearly in the same league as RED footage. Except it does have fairly bad rolling shutter and moire. Can't speak for Alexa footage as I've never worked with it.

But I think the question here is if with its many other drawbacks (battery life, rolling shutter, lack of 60p, shitty audio, etc) make it still a better camera for the OP's uses. I think the answer to that is no.
Oct 14 2014 6:01PM
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gustavkb
Posts: 75 - Karma: 612
Yes, the BMPC has a better codec. Yes, it has greater dynamic range. Yes, you get a flatter image from i than the GH4. And yes, the picture is better for color grading. But that doesn't mean you'll end up with successful shots. First of all, the fact that the shots are easier to grade does not mean you'll end up with a nice color, you actually have to be good at color grading(duh). Second of all, there are ways to get a flat enough image from the GH4 so that you can grade it properly(even though you only have a 4:2:0 8-bit solution, without the Atomos Shogun). Third of all, the dynamic range of the GH4 isn't that bad(yes, the BMPC's dynamic range is a bit better). And fourth, but not least, GET SOME GOOD F*CKING GLASS. The camera it self won't give you a nice picture without a nice lens. Oh, and don't forget, getting a good camera with a good lens doesn't necessarily make you a good cinematographer/grader/director/editor/whateveryouwanttobe. It's all about the person standing behind the camera. jk it ain't really like that(although it often is). btw as mentioned the battery life of the BMPC really blows, and since it's such a small thing it'll heat up pretty quickly. Be prepared to buy a couple of hundred of batteries, if you go for it.

Conclusion: Get a RED Dragon with a Carl Zeiss lens that costs at least 20 grand, a 20 grand rig, and you're good to go. Or you can buy the GH4 and be happy with it.

I hope this helped, although it probably didn't. If you want to hear a professionals view on the BMPC and the GH4, check out Philip Bloom. Great guy, great reviews.

Cheers gapers.
Oct 15 2014 10:11AM
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j-cal
Posts: 693 - Karma: 3,295
Conclusion: Get a RED Dragon with a Carl Zeiss lens that costs at least 20 grand, a 20 grand rig, and you're good to go. Or you can buy the GH4 and be happy with it.
.[/QUOTE]

Haha 20 grand.........
Oct 15 2014 11:17AM
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Laurent.
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 25,313
gustavkbConclusion: Get a RED Dragon with a Carl Zeiss lens that costs at least 20 grand, a 20 grand rig, and you're good to go. Or you can buy the GH4 and be happy with it.


Nope, we already concluded that digital sucks and the only system worthy of using is the Super Panavision 70.
Oct 15 2014 3:10PM
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dan_swagner
Posts: 351 - Karma: 680
the arri alexa 65 is were its at.
Oct 15 2014 4:32PM
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