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Canon and Nikon Dropping The Ball

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Amarino
Posts: 218 - Karma: 2,417
Canon just released the 7D mark II, shoots a groundbreaking 1080 60fps. Also this week Samsung drops a new 4k camera and an iPhone app was dropped to record 24fps 4k stills.

Samsung's new NX1 flagship shoots 28.2-megapixel stills and 4K video
http://www.engadget.com/2014/09/15/samsung-nx1/

http://petapixel.com/2014/09/16/want-record-4k-video-using-iphone-999-app-will-let-just/
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Sep 22 2014 12:17AM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24725 - Karma: 29,944
AmarinoCanon just released the 7D mark II, shoots a groundbreaking 1080 60fps. Also this week Samsung drops a new 4k camera and an iPhone app was dropped to record 24fps 4k stills.

Samsung's new NX1 flagship shoots 28.2-megapixel stills and 4K video
http://www.engadget.com/2014/09/15/samsung-nx1/

http://petapixel.com/2014/09/16/want-record-4k-video-using-iphone-999-app-will-let-just/


1. How many stillshots per second does the NX1 have the capability of shooting?

2. How many native wide angle lenses come in the NX mount? Not sure many 3rd parties have anything built for it yet.

3. That app is probably balls. Just like HD on most iphones is pretty much balls to begin with.

4. Lol, 28.2 megapixels doesn't do much for you with an APSC sized sensor.



The 7Dmk2 is a great camera for doing video AND photography. You buy it if you're not just shooting video. it's way better than the NX1 for photos, I can almost promise that.
Sep 22 2014 11:39AM
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CheddarJack
Posts: 5203 - Karma: 7,380
That app is ridiculous. Who in their right mind would buy that? You can get a GH4 for $700 more.
Sep 22 2014 12:31PM
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Bart.Man
Posts: 1742 - Karma: 1,952
The numbers they're throwing up for the Samsung are impressive, but as Dingo said, 28.2 Megapixels on a cropped censor seems overboard.

Similarly, what kind of glass is available in Samsung mount? And is the stock glass worth a shit? I'd also be more willing to trust the longevity and generational integrity of the 7D Mark II.

Who knows if Samsung will stay in the DSLR game for very long? I don't know if they have any other DSLRs but it seems it would be easier for them to bail if it's not as profitable as they had hoped.
Sep 22 2014 2:46PM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24725 - Karma: 29,944
Bart.ManThe numbers they're throwing up for the Samsung are impressive, but as Dingo said, 28.2 Megapixels on a cropped censor seems overboard.

Similarly, what kind of glass is available in Samsung mount? And is the stock glass worth a shit? I'd also be more willing to trust the longevity and generational integrity of the 7D Mark II.

Who knows if Samsung will stay in the DSLR game for very long? I don't know if they have any other DSLRs but it seems it would be easier for them to bail if it's not as profitable as they had hoped.


There's an pretty small amount of glass available, no more than Sony's NEX mount... Yeah, you can adapt anything to it, but wide angles aren't the most available thing, and I don't know if Tokina/Sigma have much available for NX mount. Seeing as we deal with a lot of wide angles in skiing edits, it's pretty much a requirement haha.

Samsung will win points with this camera. I'm curious to see how it performs. For video it looks great. for photo it's kinda just an APS-C version of the GH4. That said, they aren't in the DSLR game ;) no mirror, this is a MILC
Sep 22 2014 3:10PM
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Laurent.
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 25,313
One thing: Samsung NX lens mount.

Sep 22 2014 3:16PM
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Bart.Man
Posts: 1742 - Karma: 1,952
DingoSeanThere's an pretty small amount of glass available, no more than Sony's NEX mount... Yeah, you can adapt anything to it, but wide angles aren't the most available thing, and I don't know if Tokina/Sigma have much available for NX mount. Seeing as we deal with a lot of wide angles in skiing edits, it's pretty much a requirement haha.

Samsung will win points with this camera. I'm curious to see how it performs. For video it looks great. for photo it's kinda just an APS-C version of the GH4. That said, they aren't in the DSLR game ;) no mirror, this is a MILC


It's mirorless? One more knock on it, unless they stepped up the game on the entry-level digital view finder.
Sep 22 2014 4:44PM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24725 - Karma: 29,944
Bart.ManIt's mirorless? One more knock on it, unless they stepped up the game on the entry-level digital view finder.




I don't see a mirror.

...basically this is just another option to the GH4 or A1. I'm sure it's competent at all things, but it's mostly a video camera.
Sep 22 2014 4:53PM
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x0r0r
Posts: 79 - Karma: 140
DingoSean1. How many stillshots per second does the NX1 have the capability of shooting?

2. How many native wide angle lenses come in the NX mount? Not sure many 3rd parties have anything built for it yet.

3. That app is probably balls. Just like HD on most iphones is pretty much balls to begin with.

4. Lol, 28.2 megapixels doesn't do much for you with an APSC sized sensor.



The 7Dmk2 is a great camera for doing video AND photography. You buy it if you're not just shooting video. it's way better than the NX1 for photos, I can almost promise that.

1. 15fps full resolution continious shooting

2. 10mm f3.5, 20mm f2.8, 30 mm f 2.0 primes and 16-50 f2-2.8 zoom. Rokinon made most of their lenses for nx mount as well. It's mirroles camera so it has short flange focal distance and a lot of third-party lenses can be adapted to samsung camera.
Sep 23 2014 3:21PM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24725 - Karma: 29,944
x0r0r1. 15fps full resolution continious shooting

2. 10mm f3.5, 20mm f2.8, 30 mm f 2.0 primes and 16-50 f2-2.8 zoom. Rokinon made most of their lenses for nx mount as well. It's mirroles camera so it has short flange focal distance and a lot of third-party lenses can be adapted to samsung camera.


And are the lenses available for it fast enough at focusing for that fast of a rate of fire? most mirrorless lenses focus pretty poorly in such situations. How's the weathersealing? The 7D is known as a very robust camera in adverse weather. Serious questions is all.

Rokinon/3rd party lenses don't help for sportz photography. This is a great camera for video, no doubt better than the 7D.
Sep 23 2014 3:48PM
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x0r0r
Posts: 79 - Karma: 140
1. nx1 has 205 phase detection af points 105 of them are cross type. Af points covers the entire frame. Wide primes are pancakes so i think they are pretty fast. Phase detection af points are used in dslrs like canon 7d as well and are faster then contrast af that is traditionaly used in mirorrless cameras.

2. nx1 is splash and dust resistant and has full magnesium alloy body.

3. Sport photography dosen't equal auto focus. skateboarding snowboarding skiing photos easily can be shoot and often shoot with prefocus in desired point before action will be perfomed. You construct photo in your mind before you acual shoot it. You know where to focus before someone jumped. Also it could be dangerous to rely on autofocus when you are shooting in low light conditions. Eric Seo made a lot of his beautiful photos with super slow tamron 28-75 f2.8
Sep 23 2014 5:33PM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24725 - Karma: 29,944
x0r0rSport photography dosen't equal auto focus. skateboarding snowboarding skiing photos easily can be shoot and often shoot with prefocus in desired point before action will be perfomed. You construct photo in your mind before you acual shoot it. You know where to focus before someone jumped. Also it could be dangerous to rely on autofocus when you are shooting in low light conditions. Eric Seo made a lot of his beautiful photos with super slow tamron 28-75 f2.8


with a 70-200 f2.8 or similar long-tele, it absolutely does need good AF... Wide angles are something completely different from what I was referencing.



Regardless, I'll have to see it be legitimately used well for photography before I buy it for that stuff.
Sep 23 2014 5:47PM
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x0r0r
Posts: 79 - Karma: 140
Samsung introduced 50-150 f2.8 tele zoom. Zoom range equals 75-225 on full frame. It is fast and has custom focus range limiter that makes it even faster. Also it is optically stabilized. Yes there aren't such lenses like 300 or 400 mm primes. But nx system has only 4 years history. Nowadays it has limited abilities in field sports like football, soccer etc. But it definately can be used to shoot freeskiing.

There are some rumors about nx lenses roadmap for 2015.
300 mm f2.8 OIS, 16-80mm f/4 OIS, 24mm f/1.4 and 11-24mm f/2.8 OIS. I think these lenses cover your definition of sport photography.




http://www.ephotozine.com/article/samsung-s-300mm-f-2-8-ed-ois-nx-lens-announced-26193
Sep 24 2014 2:29AM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24725 - Karma: 29,944
Interesting.

Still... OVF's are my jam, gotta say.
Sep 24 2014 4:01AM
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Laurent.
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 25,313
You can shoot sport with an Alpa if you want.

Point is sports photography is the domain ruled solely by heavy Canikon bricks for a reason, in theoretical specifications the NX seems quite a capable performer but any comparison falls flat when a camera has not been released to the public as of yet. Anything is mere speculation.
Sep 24 2014 5:12AM
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lIllI
Posts: 1255 - Karma: 1,986
You keep citing these baseline specs as if they have any meaning.

Meanwhile, we still don't know if the 7Dmkii actually shoots 1080p...
Sep 24 2014 6:15PM
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Forcillo
Posts: 3801 - Karma: 3,580
lIllIYou keep citing these baseline specs as if they have any meaning.

Meanwhile, we still don't know if the 7Dmkii actually shoots 1080p...


I haven't heard anything specific, but I wouldn't expect it to be honest.
Sep 24 2014 8:30PM
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x0r0r
Posts: 79 - Karma: 140
"
-I wanted to come back to the data-readout speed. Is the camera actually capable of recording video at 240 frames?
-No.

- Oh, because the codec isn't fast enough to compress and format it?

- Actually, we just didn't implement that functionality, but the DRIMe V and the sensor could do it. When the guys in R&D were working on the Samsung Auto Shot feature, they recorded live 28 megapixel, 240 fps "video" to help with the debugging. We didn't see there being an application for that, at least for very, very few people."


http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/09/27/photokina-interview-samsung-nx1-redefine-pro-performance-quantum-leap-tech
Sep 28 2014 12:10PM
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Laurent.
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 25,313
x0r0r- Actually, we just didn't implement that functionality, but the DRIMe V and the sensor could do it. When the guys in R&D were working on the Samsung Auto Shot feature, they recorded live 28 megapixel, 240 fps "video" to help with the debugging. We didn't see there being an application for that, at least for very, very few people."


"Should've would've could've."

They can claim that they have sharks with laser beams in R&D, doesn't make it any more close to production release eithe....

Wait, what's that sound?



"ARRAGVHAGJHGJHJ........"
Sep 28 2014 12:22PM
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x0r0r
Posts: 79 - Karma: 140
Read the whole interview. i dont think that it's just marketing bullshit. there is no reason for it. It is samsung not canon they can't afford such claims if they aren't true.
Sep 28 2014 1:13PM
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x0r0r
Posts: 79 - Karma: 140
And they do use 240fps full sensor readout for auto photo feature.
Sep 28 2014 1:17PM
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Laurent.
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 25,313
x0r0rRead the whole interview. i dont think that it's just marketing bullshit. there is no reason for it. It is samsung not canon they can't afford such claims if they aren't true.


No, Samsung is king of endlessly aggrandised metric's of a product's performance. They sneakily made review examples of phones that overclock their core for benchmark tests, they lie about sales, they make up arbitrary measurements to claim make-believe performance. Not saying it's just Samsung doing this but they do have a bad track record.

If they can't show existing proof in a working production model the point is moot, such claims are hollow as the larynx in which the vocal chords generate them.
Sep 28 2014 1:31PM
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Bart.Man
Posts: 1742 - Karma: 1,952
omnidataNo, Samsung is king of endlessly aggrandised metric's of a product's performance. They sneakily made review examples of phones that overclock their core for benchmark tests, they lie about sales, they make up arbitrary measurements to claim make-believe performance. Not saying it's just Samsung doing this but they do have a bad track record.

If they can't show existing proof in a working production model the point is moot, such claims are hollow as the larynx in which the vocal chords generate them.


Analogy game too strong!

I don't know why OP is so bent on Samsung apologetics. As stated earlier, there's a reason Canon and Nikon have the market cornered. This body seems like an eager puppy hopping along behind the big dogs begging for accolades. Maybe, when it is actually released, it will surprise consumers, but until then, I'm not convinced.
Sep 28 2014 2:51PM
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death_grips
Posts: 255 - Karma: 594
4k is kinda pointless atm. Not all screens are made for it and by the time everything is at its level, it'll have moved on. Plus 4k files are crazy big. Not gonna say it's a fad just not that amazing as everyone says in imo
Sep 28 2014 4:50PM
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lIllI
Posts: 1255 - Karma: 1,986
SADBOY4k is kinda pointless atm. Not all screens are made for it and by the time everything is at its level, it'll have moved on. Plus 4k files are crazy big. Not gonna say it's a fad just not that amazing as everyone says in imo


4K by itself is the video equivalent of having a mansion with no furniture inside of it.
Sep 28 2014 5:59PM
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1337
Posts: 31054 - Karma: 29,240
4k monitors are fucking beautiful though and I personally can't wait to have one.
Sep 28 2014 7:14PM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24725 - Karma: 29,944
Chances are he also has a Galaxy 5s or whatever and constantly scoffs at iphone users for their pitiful processing performance and constantly pedestrian OS...

Really though, this camera MIGHT be cool, and people will definitely take it into consideration, but it's not going to be some gamebreaker type that changes the industry. Just looking at it already tells me that the ergonomics are pretty 'meh' and really it's basically just an NEX style camera in a GH4 kinda body. Not a bad thing, but it's not revolutionary.

Who knows what the AF is really going to be like (fuji, a very reputable company had us all expecting far better AF out of the Xpro initially - It's okay, but it's not all that and a bag of chips) and who knows how available their lenses will even be or if the prices on them will be affordable whatsoever.

For photography it will still be 'meh' in comparison to Fuji X-system in the APSC realm, and even megapixel-wise, it's nearly trumped by cameras half it's cost from Nikon (if it even has the 28mpx sensor they claim - which is outrageously unnecessary.)

Also, if it doesn't have a multi-card slot or an onboard audio monitoring jack, it's already not as interesting to me from a run/gun standpoint than my own D600... 4K or not...
Sep 29 2014 11:47AM
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