Atlanta Hawks owner to sell team after racist emails emerge.

CheddarJackFirst, that statement is not racist imho. Borderline, yes. But he even said it was a theory, which if you ask me seems pretty plausible too.

Second, I kinda get the impression that there are more reasons that he's selling than just this. Maybe there are more undiscovered emails that he doesn't want being found? Maybe he just doesn't want to be the next Sterling? Idk, I only skimmed the article.

milk_manWhat kind of words did he use in the email? What words were they?

DingoSeanIt's a pretty bad generalization and slightly prejudiced... He's effectively blaming black fans for scaring the white people away - not that he's saying he has anything personal against blacks, but that others do - others who he'd rather have buying tickets based on their affluence. It's definitely racially charged. Is it a racist attack? no, but it's still pretty bad and something he shouldn't have said.

Chances are it would have surfaced anyway, and he took a proactive approach to it before he was made to look like another Donald Sterling in any light - therefore saving face.

It was also said that he admitted speaking to executives about wanting to include more white cheerleaders and 'music that's more familiar to a 40 year old white guy' in order to attract more white affluence to Hawks games.

cydwhitNot condoning this guy or saying he's not racist but I don't really see this as racism. Many white people in the south still carry prejudice, this is a fact, saying that some white fans would be "intimidated" or less likely to attend does not count as racist in my book. The fact that he sees prejudice in others does not mean that he himself is prejudiced. In fact the first step in removing prejudice/racism is acknowledging that it exists. I feel like sometimes being aware of color or race issues is called out as racism.

Disclaimer, this guy could totally still be a racist, all I am saying is that I don't think the section of email quoted here is racist.

Lord_Byronagreed, it seems pretty premature to just say fuck it and sell for something that isn't even offensive towards black people.

DingoSeanAre you black? If not, how would you have any fucking idea. I know plenty of black people who would definitely be offended by these prejudices and generalizations in 2014.

Basically blaming low attendance and lower returns on black fans scaring white fans is a highly offending thing to say.

It's basically saying "black people are poor. white people are rich. we need more white people and we should appeal to them more" and that's totally not cool, dude. Check your privilege.

pussyfooterlearn how to read

DingoSeanAre you black? If not, how would you have any fucking idea. I know plenty of black people who would definitely be offended by these prejudices and generalizations in 2014.

Basically blaming low attendance and lower returns on black fans scaring white fans is a highly offending thing to say.

It's basically saying "black people are poor. white people are rich. we need more white people and we should appeal to them more" and that's totally not cool, dude. Check your privilege.

pat_in_the_hatwell shit. If someone asked me if I wanted to go to a NBA game in Atlanta, I might laugh.

Thats almost as bad as going to a pow wow on the rez.

DingoSeanCheck your privilege.

Turner.Here's an article on it from Bruce Arthur. I'm inclined to agree with him and most of the people in this thread (w/all due respect of course, Dingo) in that although Levenson's comments were insensitive, they're more pragmatic than anything. But race relations are not my forte and I don't mean to offend anyone in saying that, I just mean that this guy could have done worse.

Anathemai feel like the term racism has become more of a trump card excuse to win an argument than anything.

back in the 50s or whatever, a black guy walks into a bar, dressed well, alone, kindly minding his own business, he takes heat for merely existing.

to me, that's racism. looking down on someone of color for no good reason.

but what if you do have good reason?

maybe you live in an area (say..... Atlanta) where the more sketchy and crime-ridden neighborhoods also just happen to be predominantly black? that could perceivably be enough to make you want to avoid other places that are predominantly black (like maybe an NBA stadium).

maybe being observational and stereotyping isn't racist at all?

if i eat a sweet potato and it takes like shit, i probably wont be looking to eat other ones in the future. does that mean i'm being insensitive in that i wont give other, more fresh sweet potatoes a chance? maybe. or maybe it just makes me fucking human.

but it's easier to play the race card because it's a quick fix. dude was racist, get rid of him, all better! everyone's happy, nothing has to change.

but we can't just keep changing our view of what "racism" is to suit our current needs, we'll eventually make it too broad of a term. it's already broad enough, which is probably why it's also so loosely thrown around. the more broad something becomes, the less seriously it's taken. eventually everyone that's white will just be inherently racist and nobody will talk about it at all because it's just accepted. is that the goal we're striving for?

ScaredwhiteboyI thought the Sterling thing was the least racist thing to ever get called racist, but this beats it easily. You need to have a severely warped idea of what racism is to think this is racist.



To me, this seems like a lazy attempt to generate controversy so that he can sell the Hawks for big bucks like the Clippers. God knows that if I owned the Hawks, I'd sell too.

DingoSeanSo wait, Do you realize that what you saying is that generalizing people and accepting prejudice based on one's skin colour is a good thing?

Your analogy of being a picky eater is pretty fucked up when you think about it in terms of race. Just because one black dude fucked up does not mean all black dudes will therefore fuck up. Anyone who thinks otherwise is considered a racist. Straight up. I don't think that view has ever changed. That in plain terms is exactly what prejudice is, in fact.

If a certain neighborhood scares you because it's considered dangerous, do you blame it on the race of the population or do you blame it on the potentially bullshit crime statistics of such an area, (case in point my hometown is considered the '4th most dangerous city in California' based on crime rate, but is tame as fuck in comparison to the real culprits when you look at actual violent crime statistics) or the poverty of such an area that leads those who live there to look to crime as a potential way out?

I'm not saying you should go to that area, I'm just saying your reasoning for not going to that area shouldn't have anything to do with the race there. If it is, you're a racist. That's not throwing the term around loosely. That's simply just using the term correctly

SFBwhy does everything have to be so politically correct?

DingoSeanWhat he said in reference to declining Atlanta ticket sales...

"My theory is that the black crowd scared away the whites and there are simply not enough affluent black fans to build a significant season ticket base," Levenson said in the email released Sunday by the Hawks.
"Please don't get me wrong. There was nothing threatening going on in the arena back then. I never felt uncomfortable, but I think southern whites simply were not comfortable being in an arena or at a bar where they were in the minority."

ATLskierHonestly, I think its a cop out as Atlanta has had basketball since the 60s and race has never been an issue. It's a team that no one in Atlanta cares about and that is the reason for poor attendance, not some racial situation. It seems he's blaming a racial situation (if it even exists or not) for attendance issues, when it shouldnt affect anything. Now I havent been to a hawks game since 2009, but I didn't notice anything, and I've never heard a single thing from anyone else related to racial issues at hawks games. nobody gives a fuck.

shit, most of the hawks games I went to were because they were playing the Sonics, the team that I actually liked.

DingoSeanWhat he said in reference to declining Atlanta ticket sales...

"My theory is that the black crowd scared away the whites and there are simply not enough affluent black fans to build a significant season ticket base," Levenson said in the email released Sunday by the Hawks.
"Please don't get me wrong. There was nothing threatening going on in the arena back then. I never felt uncomfortable, but I think southern whites simply were not comfortable being in an arena or at a bar where they were in the minority."

DingoSeanIt's basically saying "black people are poor. white people are rich. we need more white people and we should appeal to them more" and that's totally not cool, dude. Check your privilege.

DingoSeanthat's totally not cool, dude. Check your privilege.

immas1. Good for him for calling himself out;
2. HOWEVER, it was a general statement on the (still segregated) situation of the south. It wasn't inherently racist in my mind.

yangumanefirst of all, do you understand the concept of statistics? his statement regarding the fact that (on average) blacks aren't as wealthy as whites in Atlanta is completely accurate, and not just a blind racist comment.

those are the average household income stats by race in Atlanta. now tell me how he was incorrect.

second of all, who the fuck made this clown a moderator?

Anathemayou're just full of shit if you don't accept that the world we live in does in fact have racial divides it shouldn't, you're right. but we're not in a theoretical, ideal world. we're in our world. a world plagued by history and personal opinions and emotional behavior and all kinds of baggage that is never going to change.

the owner accepts and acknowledges that southern whites could possibly be scared off by blacks. it's sad, yes, we wont argue that, but it's also the truth. that doesn't make him racist. that makes him the guy who wants to attract fans to his stadium and needs to find the people with money to do it. he understands that the people that have most of the money are white. and racial divide, as i've said, is a very real thing in our world.

all supported by fact, all discounted by political idealist morons that want any excuse to jump all over someone for not pussyfooting around those facts as carefully as they feel appropriate.

once again, race shouldn't matter. we should hold no pre-conceived opinions against anything. everything should be given a clean slate, from how you treat food to how you treat people. because you've had one bad experience, or heard things, or can form a fucking nonsensical opinion, it shouldn't mean you discriminate and ruin all future experiences.

but it does.

it's brutal to have to admit that, but that's the reality of our world. there is a lot of intolerance justified solely by our own stupid opinions. the owner believes that the southern white stupid opinion about blacks is what's driving down his sales. again, sad, sure, but also probably true.

yangumanefirst of all, do you understand the concept of statistics? his statement regarding the fact that (on average) blacks aren't as wealthy as whites in Atlanta is completely accurate, and not just a blind racist comment.

those are the average household income stats by race in Atlanta. now tell me how he was incorrect.

second of all, who the fuck made this clown a moderator?

ScaredwhiteboyIf you want to talk about racism, let's talk about the US' war on drugs which incarcerates blacks at a rate three times higher than whites despite nearly identical usage rates.

DingoSeanRace is a social construct. It's not based on human nature

SFBim inclined to disagree to some extent. humans evolved differently most likely based on the region they inhabited. if its just a social construct why dont people originating from the artic circle look the same or have the same attributes as those who originate from africa? im not implying at all that any race is better than the others at all, i believe everyone should be treated equally, but its not just a social construct.

DingoSeanYes, there are evolutionary traits between human phenotypes, but this does not constitute the word 'race'. I believe he more legit term you're looking for is 'ethnicity'. Nobody would say "the eskimo race' or the 'Ainu Race' to define specific mass differences.

You see, this is where the word 'race' becomes extremely problematic. Many people through social stigma want to see race as a means of differentiating humans into several different large groups, thus creating social divisions between classifications and adding to this 'race war' if you will - whether by accident, or on purpose, or even accidentally on purpose... Humans are inherently combative, and when you throw in 'othering' tendencies, it's what creates the race construct and the ideas that then lead to comparisons such as the ones you state. Many malicious minded folks will then use this idea as a means to legitimize their ideas of superiority or inferiority between different socially constructed groups and you create conflict.

If you want a semi-direct way of explaining this to you...

During the european expansion across north america, there were many europeans who ended up being kidnapped or abandoned, and taken in by natives, and vise versa with natives ending up in european domains. These children were raised effectively within each group, and by nature, developed the same attributes of each group, regardless of their entirely different ethnic or 'racial' origin. This cultural switch is a perfect example of why 'race' is a social construct - culture itself can override any biological differences between humans and lead to sub-evolution in it's own right (example being how Filipinos all of a sudden are becoming far less lactose intolerant than they were 20 years ago with the accidentally forced introduction of dairy into their diet - within like 2 generations or something, that intolerance went from 95% to half that or something crazy)



TL;DR? - As Russell Peters said, one day we're all going to be beige... if race was a true defining feature, this wouldn't be possible.