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How to Start Backcountry skiing

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SkiingBodega
Posts: 1 - Karma: 28
Hey,

I am a new member to Newschoolers, but by no means new to skiing. I grew up shredding the gnar and have lived the past two years in Colorado. The past two seasons I've just skied the bowls at the areas I had a pass to (copper, winterpark, breck,a-basin), so I know Co. terrain pretty well. Now I really want to get into back country skiing. I would like some advice on the gear I should get, classes I should take, etc, or your story on how you started skiing back country. I'm a freshman at Colorado College so if anyone is on here and close, I'd love to meet you!Oh and on that note, i'm on a budget here so I'm looking for gear that will be good to start off and not break the bank with. thanks!

-Mike
11 years ago
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7578 - Karma: 12,730
In order of importance:

1. Knowledge of snow conditions, how to read snowpacks, etc. You can gain this from skiing with experienced people in mellow terrain and having them teach you, or you can take an Avy 1 course.

2. Beacon/Shove/Probe-This is integral because to be able to save yourself or another, you need to have this gear. Simple as that.

3. Skins/AT Bindings-Self explanatory. No one wants to skin with someone who is going on snowshoes.

4. Backpack-Packs with systems designed for AT gear is nice. Airbag is not a necessity.


Other people can chime in. I am pretty sure at CC there is a program through your outing club that may be able to help with most of the gear I listed above as well as a possible class.
11 years ago
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robotdna
Posts: 1232 - Karma: 2,959
Avy course is a great idea.

Also, get to know your gear before heading out. You don't want to be stuck in a windy, snowy area trying to figure out how to fold skins. :P


Check out the Touring/AT thread, that should help with some other things too.



Have fun, make good choices. Simple.
11 years ago
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robotdna
Posts: 1232 - Karma: 2,959
Sorry for dub post but I forgot to mention:

I started backcountry skiing using a binding adapter known as Alpine Trekkers (aka "Day Wreckers") and still use them to this day. They allow you to explore AT without spending a bazillion dollars on a Dynafit setup or something similar. Just make sure they fit the binding correctly, maintain them, and they will never be "Day Wreckers."
11 years ago
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DubV134
Posts: 1541 - Karma: 695
http://avalanche.state.co.us
11 years ago
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Alvaro
Posts: 323 - Karma: 2,056
what i recomend to anyone who wants to get started in any sport is:
1: find a group of friends who want to do the same
2: do some research and buy some good gear (don`t buy shit that is for "beginners" that you will want to change in one or two years)
3: dont take classes, go out there with your friends, figure out how its done and gain experience on it.
learning stuff by yourself can be dangerous but its for sure the most fun part in any "action" sport.
11 years ago
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Furrer92
Posts: 784 - Karma: 341
Alvarowhat i recomend to anyone who wants to get started in any sport is:
1: find a group of friends who want to do the same
2: do some research and buy some good gear (don`t buy shit that is for "beginners" that you will want to change in one or two years)
3: dont take classes, go out there with your friends, figure out how its done and gain experience on it.
learning stuff by yourself can be dangerous but its for sure the most fun part in any "action" sport.


Definitely don't try to just go out there and 'figure it out'. Backcountry can be really dangerous without any knowledge. Avy 1 is pretty short and super worth it.
11 years ago
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tcgoldman
Posts: 704 - Karma: 723
Find a friend who is safe and has backcountry experience and ask them to go do some light backcountry with you and teach you snowpack and safety fundamentals. make sure you have practiced with a beacon and refresh yourself by practicing with it every so often. I would highly suggest taking a level one avy course if you can. they are very informational and honestly make you more nervous about skiing anywhere in the backcountry which is a good thing.

In terms of gear the first thing you need to make sure to have is a beach, shovel, and probe and then just look for some older marker AT bindings and some good all mountain skis that are on sale and go from there.

The Backcountry is super Rad and one of my favorite ways to get away from the crowds of resort skiing. Just be smart, reserved, and have fun!
11 years ago
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kvan
Posts: 3086 - Karma: 1,232
Alvarowhat i recomend to anyone who wants to get started in any sport is:
1: find a group of friends who want to do the same
2: do some research and buy some good gear (don`t buy shit that is for "beginners" that you will want to change in one or two years)
3: dont take classes, go out there with your friends, figure out how its done and gain experience on it.
learning stuff by yourself can be dangerous but its for sure the most fun part in any "action" sport.

This is exactly how to end up in one of those news stories titled "5 people missing in an avalanche." Backcountry isn't something you just "go figure it out" and learn overnight. Conditions can change on a dime and having knowledge about snowpack levels is real important. If you want to get serious about backountry/touring you should hands down take an avy course or at least have someone with you that is experienced because if you make a mistake in the backcountry sometimes there are no second chances.
11 years ago
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GrahamGould
Posts: 713 - Karma: 2,439
I have been skiing backcountry in colorado since I was 13. You should get your avy 1 and learn how to use your equipment, how to read a snow report, and how to read the snowpack. The second thing you need to learn is that none of this even remotely guarantees your safety, and good judgement is the most important part of backcountry skiing. Backcountry skiing is the funnest thing in the world if you can learn to do it safely, hopefully you can get out there soon!
11 years ago
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HuckNorris44
Posts: 1025 - Karma: 2,394
1. Check out Colorado Mountain Colleges Avy Course. Fills fast but is good. Also, do an overnight course with field wok. You'll thank me later.

2. When it comes to backcountry, especially in Colorado, you dont want to skimp. I would spend the extra cash to get the best gear you can because it comes down to life and death sometimes. How much is your life worth? You want the equipment to work when you need it.

3. I have skied in Colorado for 24 years. Terrain and snowpack outside of resort areas is very different and a lot more avy prone/sketchy. Lots of wind blown snow and warming/cooling trends. More avalanches in Colorado than any other state. LEARN TO READ AVY REPORTS AND UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY MEAN/SAY.

4. Go with people who have experience and someone you trust to save your life if you get buried.

5. DONT BE A DUMBASS ABOUT BACKCOUNTRY. Last season in Colorado, saw to many Avy deaths. This is because people either werent trained properly or not trained at all. Also, start small and work your way up as your experience increases.

6. Respect mother nature and the consequences of a bad decision.
11 years ago
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iLLbiLLy
Posts: 2865 - Karma: 2,631
The only thing I want to add is that colorado probably has the most unstable snow pack in the country.

After you've done all the things mentioned above. You need to geek out on the snow.

* Read the local avalanche report like its a bible. Even when you don't plan on skiing that day, week or month, read it. At the same time pay attention to whats happening outside and with the forecast. Make special notes of any events. Learn as much as you can about what factors caused to snow to actually slide.

* Make your own predictions to your friends. Constantly compare what you thought would happen to the actual results.

* When you're skinning/hiking constantly be probing the different layers with you're poles. Try to note what happens at different elevations, aspects and terrain features (trees, cliff bases, cliff tops, ridges, etc).

* PAY ATTENTION TO THE WIND and understand how it effects snowpack. Visually look for loading and scouring. If one side of a ridge has almost no snow after a large storm where did it all go end up?

* Test the snowpack (in a controlled way). Find a steep test slope and undercut it. Skin across the apex. Jump on top of it. Do everything you can to try and make that slope slide. If it doesn't then great. Now tell yourself all the things that are different about that test slope and what you're actually going to ski.

* Learn how to SAFELY make a slopecut.

* Learn how to SAFELY cut a cornice. Rolling a Volkswagen sized block down a face gives you about as much confidence as you can get. Just make sure you don't go rolling down the hill too.

This list could literally go on and on but I need to get back to work. Good luck
11 years ago
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HuckNorris44
Posts: 1025 - Karma: 2,394
Forgot to mention:

First responders courses are very good thing to have under your belt when your in the wilderness.

Also, make sure you have a good touring set-up. I broke a toe piece off of some shitty older touring bindings. Not fun having to boot pack what was a two hour tour. Biggest thing is be smart.

(Have fun in Colorado Springs. Spent 18 years there growing up. COULD NOT WAIT TO GET OUT. You'll understand after 4 years)
11 years ago
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Bum.Life
Posts: 507 - Karma: 2,608
For starters, once you get a touring setup, I reccomend that once it snows, find a small hill or park and get comfortable walking In your skis with skins on. That will help you get to know your gear. You can also throw your skins on and hike up groomers at your home mountain. Most places will let you do that. Earning turns on groomers is how I learned how to hike with skins on.
Also, this may sound lame, but watch as many YouTube videos you can on touring and backcountry techniques. By no means will this fully prepare you for actual backcountry skiing, only experience will do that. It will just give you general basic ideas in the back of your mind that you try to apply when you get on the mountain.
Hope that helps. Read as much as you can on this site, there are a lot of knowledgeable backcountry skiers on this site.
11 years ago
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Mike.Records
Posts: 1311 - Karma: 756
Lots of good info, I'll try not to be to repetitive. One of the coolest parts about bc skiing is that there is always more to learn. Its a constant learning process. When you start, you won't know much, so be very cautious, and stay cautious forever. Learn by osmosis. Find someone who already BC skis and tag along. I bet your school has a backcountry club or something similar to check out.

Spring is a great time to check out BC skiing. Days are longer, its warmer, and its generally more stable.

----- Education -----
- Before the snow flies, read "Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain". Don't expect to remember it all, reread it once you build up a little experience.
- REI and probably your school offer avy awareness classes. These aren't avy 1, but they are a place to get your feet wet.
- Read the avy forecasts as often as possible. Even if you aren't going out, it will help you build your understanding over time.
- Read the NWS weather forecast discussions as often as possible. Weather is an integral part of avalanche understanding.
- Check out the TGR forums for partners and beta: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/3-Ski-Snowboard
- Take an Avy 1 Class

----- Gear -----
- Beacon, shovel, probe, backpack 1st.
- Trekkers 2nd.
- Real touring bindings 3rd.
There are places like Berthoud, Loveland Pass, and ski area side country gates where you can boot pack and have a great time.

----- Stoke -----
Here are some adventures I've been on for you to look forward to.
Steamboat BC


Alaska


More Alaska


Feel free to get in touch if you have any questions.
11 years ago
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SkiingBodega
Posts: 1 - Karma: 28
Thanks guys you're the best!!
11 years ago
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skier58284
Posts: 1705 - Karma: 5,366
Take Avalanche 1. Get avalanche gear. Only ski backcountry with other people who also have training and gear and are trustworthy.

The minimum gear required is beacon, probe, and shovel. Optional safety gear are airbag backpack and avalung. Avalung triples your survival time while buried giving people longer to dig you out. Airbag packs prevent you from being buried and users have a 96% survival rating. If I recall correctly the other 4% died just because they didn't pull it in time.

Aside from safety gear, skis with touring bindings/touring boots and climbing skins. A backpack that has straps to hold your skis. A ski strap to hold the ski tips together when carrying them A-frame.
11 years ago
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,126
it's pretty much like takin up a smack habit
you'll be hangin out w/ junkies some of who will die
never took avvy 1 took avvy 2 and a semester long snow study class after a decade of experience
people extremely overestimate the amount of experience 24 or 36 hours of instruction can give you
the real biggies, group dynamics, spatial varibilities, and the inner mind game of decision making really cant be taught.
dial your companion self rescue and first aid skills ive used them much more in
non avvy situations than avvy.
best thing ya can have is good solid partners
best way to find em strive to be one yourself
11 years ago
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skier58284
Posts: 1705 - Karma: 5,366
Also if you take Avalanche 1 and want more info, other than additional courses, read Snow Sense. I haven't read it yet but I have heard nothing bad about it and have heard it recommended multiple times.
11 years ago
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elm.
Posts: 1510 - Karma: 13,605
newschoolers at its best! I would recommend getting AT bindings because they cost as much as normal bindings. also don't worry about the weight of your setup unless you're doing some deep touring.
11 years ago
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Mike.Records
Posts: 1311 - Karma: 756
SFBv420.0never took avvy 1 took avvy 2 and a semester long snow study class after a decade of experience
people extremely overestimate the amount of experience 24 or 36 hours of instruction can give you


I completely disagree with your statement about instruction. Sure, 24 to 36 hours of instruction will never compare to your ten years of experience. But, 24 hours is equivalent to 3 days of touring. Its a great investment, you will learn way more in a course then you will learn in 3 days of touring. Like all things in life, courses are what you make them. Ask questions, chat with the instructor, review what you learned, apply it in the field. Don't make an effort, then yeah its a waste of time.
11 years ago
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,126
in 3 days touring i'm certain i could teach a noob the level 1 curriculium
probably more conditions dependent.
so if avvy 1 is so great why do so many incidents and deaths involve people w/ that level of training?
personally i'd rather w/ a noobz who spent that time on beacon drills and on a decent
1st aid cert.
any cert that doesn't require some sort of test of compentancy or comes w/ a 100% pass rate isn't really a test of knowledge or skill.
it's a pay the $$$ show up and get a card.
obviously the ya get what cha put into it applies
but thats a given in life
11 years ago
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,126
Sh4dowTake Avalanche 1. Get avalanche gear. Only ski backcountry with other people who also have training and gear and are trustworthy.

The minimum gear required is beacon, probe, and shovel. Optional safety gear are airbag backpack and avalung. Avalung triples your survival time while buried giving people longer to dig you out. Airbag packs prevent you from being buried and users have a 96% survival rating. If I recall correctly the other 4% died just because they didn't pull it in time.

Aside from safety gear, skis with touring bindings/touring boots and climbing skins. A backpack that has straps to hold your skis. A ski strap to hold the ski tips together when carrying them A-frame.


you are like a clueless whack-a-mole
that pops up in every bc thread
to tell us ya never did it but here is how you should
whack
11 years ago
6 1
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Mike.Records
Posts: 1311 - Karma: 756
SFBv420.0in 3 days touring i'm certain i could teach a noob the level 1 curriculium
probably more conditions dependent.
so if avvy 1 is so great why do so many incidents and deaths involve people w/ that level of training?
personally i'd rather w/ a noobz who spent that time on beacon drills and on a decent
1st aid cert.
any cert that doesn't require some sort of test of compentancy or comes w/ a 100% pass rate isn't really a test of knowledge or skill.
it's a pay the $$$ show up and get a card.
obviously the ya get what cha put into it applies
but thats a given in life


First off, I totally agree with you about the value of a 1st aid cert.

You have 10 years experience - if you spent 3 days teaching someone the level 1 curriculum it would be the same as taking Level 1. Most people who are just getting into backcountry don't have an experienced friend who is willing to devote 3 full days to training them, so they take the class.

You haven't taken level 1, so you don't know, but part of the course is beacon drill.

Ideally, you are taking an avy course to gain knowledge, not just get the card. If you just want the card, not the knowledge, that's more of a personal problem than something wrong with the course.

People with all levels of training are involved in avy accidents; no training to avalanche professionals. We're humans, we have egos, we make mistakes, we get powder fever. But, you want to do everything you can to stack the deck in your favor.
11 years ago
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Mike.Records
Posts: 1311 - Karma: 756
SFBv420.0personally i'd rather w/ a noobz who spent that time on beacon drills and on a decent
1st aid cert.


Beacon drills are part of avy 1.
11 years ago
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Mike.Records
Posts: 1311 - Karma: 756
One last thought: you can teach yourself everything in life. But, learning institutions of all forms (colleges, technical schools, avy schools, first aid classes) still exist. Why? Because teaching yourself is not always as fast and efficient as learning from someone who has already made the mistakes.
11 years ago
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freeballer
Posts: 737 - Karma: 1,077
The absolute first and foremost thing you need to do is learn first aid, but mainly CPR. It doesn't matter that you can dig me out of a slide if I'm not breathing and you don't know what to do. Seriously, I know a lot of people that venture out to the backcountry that have really good terrain reading and beacon/probe skills but don't know CPR. I don't go out with those guys.
11 years ago
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Nacho+
Posts: 3748 - Karma: 7,792
How did you all find this so called "mentor" It's a lot harder than it's made out to be haha. Ik a couple guys who have been backcountry skiing for ages. Is it worth talking to them and seeing if they'd take me out of a trip? I'm sure even just getting the conversation started would be good.
11 years ago
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Mike.Records
Posts: 1311 - Karma: 756
Nacho_Macho_manHow did you all find this so called "mentor" It's a lot harder than it's made out to be haha. Ik a couple guys who have been backcountry skiing for ages. Is it worth talking to them and seeing if they'd take me out of a trip? I'm sure even just getting the conversation started would be good.


TGR forums, coaches, big mountain comps, volunteer ski patrol, avy classes. Idk what else, that what it was for me.
11 years ago
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tac0.slayer
Posts: 254 - Karma: 947
Just buy a Gopro and a ABS pack and you'll be good to go.
11 years ago
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robotdna
Posts: 1232 - Karma: 2,959
no.me.gustaJust buy a Gopro and a ABS pack and you'll be good to go.


Hahahaha "you'll be fine I'm sure"

lol












No.
11 years ago
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fennjack
Posts: 286 - Karma: 132
1. Take a avalanche course and get you Avi 1 at least.
2. Get the appropriate gear (Peeps, probe, shovel)
3. Start going with someone who is very experienced in the backcountry.
11 years ago
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,126
i know beacon drills are a part of avvy 1 but what an hour? 2?
i'm talkin 24 to 36 hours of beacon and probin time in a park doing multiples
understanding flux lines different alignments how your particular beacon deals w/ each.
beacon parks rock props to bca and the sar's and resorts that fund them
if you work at a ski resort these mentors and partners in addictions are pretty easy to find.
a few trollers and the snow safety bros did a lot of mentoring for my crew
i'm not sayin formal avvy instruction isn't worth it
or excessive safety sessions matter
touring on high danger days or solo is worth it
nor am i saying

i'm some kind of expert and my ways right way or the gear that works best for me is what will work for you.
you nailed it w/ the everyone from bc noobs to experts who wrote the books like brucie to
uber bloggers like lou and the straight chuter done fucked up and made mistakes,
and will probably make more.
leavin this here for clueless beyond a shadow of a doubt dude or anyone else who believes the 96% survival rate bullshit gear manufacturers are feeding them, or youre just gonna pull the cord ride out a slide deflate your bag
and ski away
http://utahavalanchecenter.org/avalanches/16589
i didn't know craig personally but the wasatchs a small range and you cross skintracks/trailheads w/ a lot of the same peeps out doing it every day.
so you find yourself exchanging pleasantries and snowpack info w/ the same peeps
you couldn't have meet a nicer more professional knowledgeable stud.
lost another friend/coworker on kessler the season before
had a boatload of formal avvy edjumacation and a few seasons of a great stabile deep snowpack that allowed him to ski a lot of wasatch classics, which he used to find enough stability to justify boarding the slope that killed him.
interesting that the 4 members of that indecent hooked up through tgr and this presents interesting group dynamics.
tour a bit w/ one of them.
his account of the indecent is also on the uac site.
in that situation his airbag came in handy to signal the sar chopper to their location.
but wouldn't a done a damn thing for alec.
11 years ago
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
Mike.RecordsOne last thought: you can teach yourself everything in life. But, learning institutions of all forms (colleges, technical schools, avy schools, first aid classes) still exist. Why? Because teaching yourself is not always as fast and efficient as learning from someone who has already made the mistakes.


This. Everyone adapts techniques for all activities to suit their own preferences. I wouldn't feel comfortable teaching someone how to ski or drive, just like I wouldn't feel comfortable teaching avalanche awareness and rescue techniques. Learning textbook methods from a professional is important to get the fundamentals solid first.

I have an old friend moving into town this year and I'll be sending him on a two-day avalanche awareness & rescue course, maybe one-day glacier travel & rescue course (otherwise we just need to organise our groups smartly on the glaciers), and whatever first aid courses are available at the time (I'll probably renew my first aid training too), then practice techniques together regularly and constantly talk about the decisions we make while on the hill.
11 years ago
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
...and get an airbag pack when you can afford it. Argue all you want about marketed percentages (not with me please), and ski smart with or without an airbag, but even if they only offered a marginal increase in survival rate they would be worth buying if you have the cash.

Read Tremper's article on the real stats and note that he still skis smart and still take on the extra expense and weight of an airbag pack for his own skiing.
11 years ago
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Bo_bot9
Posts: 1437 - Karma: 275
Definitely take an avalanche level 1 course. It will teach you how to safely travel in the backcountry and give you the tools you need to identify factors that lead to avalanches ie. slope steepness, compass aspect, elevation, snow structure etc. The book " Staying alive in Avalanche Terrain" is a really good read...it is a pretty in depth look at avalanches but it will help to explain some common phenomenons. Dont expect to ever become and avalanche expert..the only avalanche experts are dead.
11 years ago
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,126
Bo_bot9The book " Staying alive in Avalanche Terrain" is a really good read...it is a pretty in depth look at avalanches but it will help to explain some common phenomenons. Dont expect to ever become and avalanche expert..the only avalanche experts are dead.

youve obviously never met bruce. he is an expert just ask him
trempers ego negates his need for an airbag
he pretty much tours the wasatch introducing himself as an expert
ive met him like 5 times the same every time.
11 years ago
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Bo_bot9
Posts: 1437 - Karma: 275
SFBv420.0youve obviously never met bruce. he is an expert just ask him
trempers ego negates his need for an airbag
he pretty much tours the wasatch introducing himself as an expert
ive met him like 5 times the same every time.



It seems like you might have some vendetta against Bruce because you're talking out of your ass.
11 years ago
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forrest-cole
Posts: 1145 - Karma: 495
just fucking yolo dat bitch son dayummm
11 years ago
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westcoastmissi
Posts: 22 - Karma: 120
Definitely beacon/shovel/probe, backpack, good technical snow gear. Invest in an avy course and know what's going on out there. Always remember nature is a powerful teacher. Always go with someone else. Honestly I wouldn't go with someone I wouldn't trust to get me out of a life-threatening situation.

I'm also in Colorado, we backcountry regularly during the season and primarily in Lake County. There were a couple of deaths on Star Peak last year near Independence Pass; http://www.summitdaily.com/news/obituaries/10229612-113/avalanche-county-lake-office. Always go early, going right before dusk is crazy dangerous for both the skiers and the rescue crew.

I would go out to Loveland Pass after some snow sticks for some slackcountry. There's always a bunch of people and it's a good time.

It's truly an amazing way to spend the day, have fun!!
11 years ago
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,126
Bo_bot9It seems like you might have some vendetta against Bruce because you're talking out of your ass.


no vendetta at all dude knows his shit
inside and out full bore snowgeekages
was one of my avvy 2 instructers
he is entitled to the expert moniker
i'm just pointing out humility aint his stong point
its no secret either
bruce refers to non professionals a "volunteer slope stability testers"
some people like to introduce themselves and tell ya who they are and what they do
or assume other people care
have you ever met him ?
kimbroughs always been more my style
11 years ago
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grifrowl
Posts: 200 - Karma: 471
no.me.gustaJust buy a Gopro and a ABS pack and you'll be good to go.


Is the GoPro so your family can relive your last living moments after S&R spends the weekend recovering your body?

SFBv420.0never took avvy 1 took avvy 2 and a semester long snow study class after a decade of experience


skifishbr0, what resource did you take said classes through? UofU?
11 years ago
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iLLbiLLy
Posts: 2865 - Karma: 2,631
SFBv420.0no vendetta at all dude knows his shit
inside and out full bore snowgeekages
was one of my avvy 2 instructers
he is entitled to the expert moniker
i'm just pointing out humility aint his stong point
its no secret either
bruce refers to non professionals a "volunteer slope stability testers"
some people like to introduce themselves and tell ya who they are and what they do
or assume other people care
have you ever met him ?
kimbroughs always been more my style


I'd be funny if he showed up on NS to defend his honor (don't think that will happen).

As far as taking AVI 1 vs not...

I read the Temper book when I was first starting out and used that resource + many online resource basically in place of my AVI 1 class. I think it works for some, and not for others. I've always been obsessive when I take to learning something on my own. I spend hours everyday for months immersing myself in material and practicing until I've got it down without thinking (learned how to trad climb the same way). However, some people definitely learn better by having other teach and show them. Its definitely a good way to jumpstart your learning but just because you get out of AVI 1 doesn't mean your ready.

I won't pretend to be an expert either. A lot of what I've learned has come from making mistakes and getting lucky. Still, I take risks every time I go out. The fun lines are always the dangerous ones.

I've thought about taking AVI II but I think a Advanced Backcountry Rescue skills class would be more beneficial.

/ramble
11 years ago
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