Intervening with a heroin addict. HELP

as shitty as it sounds, your not going to be able to do anything unless he wants to quit. don't try to force him to quit or go to rehab if he's not 100% committed

I wish i knew some advice I could give to help.

I had a similar situation with a good friend from high school. Unfortunately he couldn't get a handle on it, and he died at 29.

I hope your friend gets the help he needs, but honestly, he also needs to want it. Dont think that its your responsibility. You're a good friend for doing what you're doing, though.

Idk man. Heroine is such a fucked up drug. Probably the most addictive drug? Don't quote me on that though.

Anyways, he has to want to quit and there's not much that you can do to help him.

You could try not hanging out with him until he stops? I don't know, like I said there's not much that you can do if the intervention didn't work.

sneezinHere goes... one of my best friends is heavily addicted to heroin. If he has money, he is buying heroin. The other day he shot 5-6 bags of it and I do not think that is terribly uncommon for him. He probably does it 5-6 days a week and takes a suboxone when he doesnt have the money or cant get it. If he has coke, he is speedballing. On several occasions I have seen him drink while speedballing. It's really bad. He's (was) actually good friends with Tom Warnick.

He went to rehab in high school, but it clearly didnt work.

My friend and I tried intervening with him tonight, but got nowhere. His dad and sister have tried on many occasions, but have also failed miserably. His mom is a raging alcoholic who has liver cancer but still wont stop drinking. She has 4 DUIs (3 in MA, 1 in NH).

Basically, he goes back to school at plymouth state in a week or so and we need to convince him to commit himself to rehab and take a semester off.

Worst part is he's literally the nicest kid ive ever met in my life. Wouldn't hurt a soul.

Tips, suggestions, anything? Tonight he just kept saying he wasnt ready to help himself even though he admitted he had a problem

I also leave for school soon so it is urgent that we intervene soon.

It's a tough road. I've got friends struggling, lost friends to it. Unfortunately it's out of your control. Do your best to try to make him see and get him into rehab but he might not listen, and even if rehab goes well might relapse.

The mind needs a change to get from wanting to do heroin all the time to being alright without it. Maybe push him toward moving to a new area if he get's clean. Old habits are hard to kick if you're in the same town with the same crowd.

I don't know anyone personally that's used ibogaine but that sounded pretty interesting. I know some people that have quit from tripping super hard on lsd and saw the path they needed to follow and were able to get clean and stay clean.


Idk, it's a bitch. Unfortunately there are reasons in his life for using it, and unless you can change the way he thinks and his perspective it's going to be hard for him to get clean and stay clean.



Hope for the best man. Good luck with him

man thats a tough situation and there won't be an easy way around it.. But the best thing you have at the moment is knowledge of it and you've brought it to his attention. I've been completely blindsided by this before when it was too late and its the worst.. obviously everyones different and you got to asses the situation based on your whole life with him, but if I ever had one thing to say its that you need to get tough. Don't let a friend like that slip through your fingers and go away from you without addressing the situation in a serious way. I know it can't get much more serious than intervention, but you need to do whatever it takes, even/especially if its a best friend. There won't be an easy way to do it but you need to lay down the law before you ever regret it. While this aint related to tw at all and i also had friends that knew him well but the worst thing you could possibly do it let him move on using something as fucked up as that. honestly that drug is as bad as it gets and its becoming too popular now. If i had one thing to say, its just knock some sense into him, literally.

Sorry to hear about that man, I've had several friends in the same situation. One thing that seemed to help my friend want to get help was finding the right rehab. If you call around and look at some rehabs in the San Diego area they will be very helpful in getting you out there. They get paid by the insurance so they want to get as many patients in as they can. I helped a friend of mine look into this and he got to attend a one month program for free and they paid for his plane ticket to LAX from Boston the next day and flew him over. And after the program there are a bunch of halfway houses in the area that he can check into and they'll help him find a job and give him a place to live with some other people going through the same thing he is and trying to keep themselves clean. Doesn't work for everyone of course, but I'd say it's definitely something worth looking into. Good luck

The thing is, he admits he has a problem, and says he wants to change it. He even said himself "I'm such a smart kid and I do something so stupid". He just adamantly says he is "not ready" and that he wants to do it later. He thinks he needs to go to school and that the problem can wait. he claims he cant get heroin at school, but I know he is lying to me. Gonna try and have another intervention today with his dad there as well does anybody have any other tips or ideas?

theabortionatorI don't know anyone personally that's used ibogaine but that sounded pretty interesting. I know some people that have quit from tripping super hard on lsd and saw the path they needed to follow and were able to get clean and stay clean.

I'd never heard of ibogaine before, thats pretty interesting. I wonder if he'd be more inclined to try that method. LSD certainly wouldn't do it though, he used to trip acid twice a weekend every weekend for a while. He has had a problem with drugs for a long time. Used to be coke and xanax and acid, then he went to rehab. Next it was perc 30's, than chewing fentanyl, then smoking perc 30's, then heroin for the most part. He says he has tried pretty much every drug except for crack and meth.

sneezinThe thing is, he admits he has a problem, and says he wants to change it. He even said himself "I'm such a smart kid and I do something so stupid". He just adamantly says he is "not ready" and that he wants to do it later. He thinks he needs to go to school and that the problem can wait. he claims he cant get heroin at school, but I know he is lying to me. Gonna try and have another intervention today with his dad there as well does anybody have any other tips or ideas?

YEah, honesty is a tough one at least regarding the habit. HAve one friend I used to jam with that still claims he's clean. SUpposedly quit almost a decade ago but was still using the whole time.

Lol at everybody thinking he will be able to quit if he wants to. 9 out of 10 heroin addicts that have been through rehab relapse into doing it again.
the fact that he is on suboxone highlights the worthlessness of that drug along with methadone at keeping addicts off heroin.

In switzerland germany england and the netherlands they have doctor run programs that give pure shots of heroin to addicts for free, and they live full, satisfying lives having jobs, homes, families etc.

But enough of that. My sincerest advice would be to have a serious conversation with your friend. Many addicts are able to continue using drugs like heroin without letting it destroy their lives. This is always superior to sobriety, which after using heroin is a guaranteed life of misery (why 9 out of 10 h addicts relapse). You need to tell your friend that if he cannot keep his habit under control and cannot live within his means, then he is heading towards a universe of misery (rehab, sobriety, law enforcement [if hes stealing] etc.)

you need to assess whether or not his use has become a problem. if its not then let him make his choices and live his life how he wants. If it is a problem, you need to tell him that if he doesnt get his fucking ass in shape to the point where its not a problem, then he is heading towards a bigger pile of misery than he can even fathom. Problemed addicts need help. They are living unsustainable lifestyles, and unsustainable implies that something will eventually have to change. And this change usually entails going from using heroin to sobriety, something he definitely does not want. if you want to get through to him, you need to convey in the strongest way possible that he cannot continue living an unsustainable lifestyle. He needs to be able to be content with taking a dose that only maintains him, ie not taking more and more and more. If he cannot do that then you need to tell him hes heading towards sobriety. Taking the same amount of h everyday is always going to be better than quitting, even if he has to come up with some nuclear level will power to accomplish this.

Specifically, i would suggest to him that he does his h intramuscularly, as this will give him a longer feeling of contentment and a broader peak; it also reduces the craving for that instant feeling which is a major factor in driving people to increase their dose over time.

i would suggest he do his h IM 6 days a week with iv once a week so he can still occasionally have a slam to keep that part of him satiated.

again, tell him if he doesnt get his shit together and live within his means he is headed towards withdrawal and sobriety, and this is always worse than growing some willpower and maintaining a constant dose that doesnt strain his means and is not detrimentally affecting others.

Inb4 the closeminded fucks barge in here claiming that there is no such thing as responsible sustainable opiate use. I, along with the doctors of countries with superior iqs to america believe that it is.

Fucking iphone. Sorry for trip post

sneezinI'd never heard of ibogaine before, thats pretty interesting. I wonder if he'd be more inclined to try that method. LSD certainly wouldn't do it though, he used to trip acid twice a weekend every weekend for a while. He has had a problem with drugs for a long time. Used to be coke and xanax and acid, then he went to rehab. Next it was perc 30's, than chewing fentanyl, then smoking perc 30's, then heroin for the most part. He says he has tried pretty much every drug except for crack and meth.

As for ibogaine, there is no way to "cheat" your way out of an addiction. all the enjoyment and good feeling you had on the drug will be repaid penny for penny in misery in withdrawl and post acute withdrawal syndrome. Anything that seems to solve the problem (trazadone, neurontin, ibogaine) is likely covering up a massive collapse in the familiar structure of your brain activity. Your brain does not have infinite plasticity, so using up a ton of it to get through withdrawal is akin to burning the only candle you have. withdrawal permanently changes you, and not in a good way. Adding other drugs that only indirectly reduce the disphoria is like taking acid at your families funeral, hoping that it will reduce the pain. Yeah it might, but if it does then who the fuck are you left with afterwards? Someone who doesnt care that their family is dead, and thats supposed to be a good thing? Really....

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I don't know about any of those other places but in England that is not widely practised and it is certainly not free. Heroin addicts in the UK are given methadone and buprenorphine as a heroin substitute and offered therapy.

OP - Sorry to hear about your friend but if he's not ready to change yet then it's unlikely you're going to be able to convince him. Vibes to you and him though...

skiersupremeas shitty as it sounds, your not going to be able to do anything unless he wants to quit. don't try to force him to quit or go to rehab if he's not 100% committed

Truth. Junkies only wanna get high, it's just like water being wet and the sky being up. Its just the way it is. The reality is that you cannot save your friend unless you're going to call the cops on him, and even then he'll probably just go to jail and do more heroin there.


The ONLY thing I can think of is maybe staging an intervention. Not that it'll do anything honestly, but at least that way you can know you tried your best to avoid the ridiculous guilt trip when he does eventually die.

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Wait, aren't you the kid who does heroin and supposedly doesn't have a problem?

BoogieWomanI don't know about any of those other places but in England that is not widely practised and it is certainly not free. Heroin addicts in the UK are given methadone and buprenorphine as a heroin substitute and offered therapy.

OP - Sorry to hear about your friend but if he's not ready to change yet then it's unlikely you're going to be able to convince him. Vibes to you and him though...

Its use is not widespread in britain like it is in ch ned and ger, but its there

Huck_NorrisWait, aren't you the kid who does heroin and supposedly doesn't have a problem?

Hi inferior boy! Wait, arent you the kid who got so thoroughly humiliated in the last thread about heroin that you went gushing to the mods, begging them to nuke all my posts so the record of your complete and utter embarrassment couldnt be seen by anyone?

i knew it was you inferior boy,,,, you broke my heart...

Dolan.EscobarIn switzerland germany england and the netherlands they have doctor run programs that give pure shots of heroin to addicts for free, and they live full, satisfying lives having jobs, homes, families etc.

Partially right and thus also slightly wrong.

As far as the Netherlands goes they don't get pure heroin, but they can get methadone, either in constantly decreasing doses to get them to quit or in a higher maintenance dose, methadone doesn't have the 'flash' effect that heroine does have so some addicts still use heroin besides it resulting in wonderful overdose.

Other differences are that Heroine works for 4-6 hours whilst methadone works for 24-36 hours. This is the one thing that allows them to get back to a normal day-night rhythm, And that being an opiate made under stringent rules it's very clean.

But despite using methadone quitting heroin is still hard, and after that people have to quit with methadone which is pretty much as addicting. But allows as said for a more normal life rhythm.

My aunt is a doc for a rehab clinic, and from what I hear from her, these people almost never come back to having full satisfying lives at all, and still have more relapses then you can count.

omnidataPartially right and thus also slightly wrong.

As far as the Netherlands goes they don't get pure heroin, but they can get methadone, either in constantly decreasing doses to get them to quit or in a higher maintenance dose, methadone doesn't have the 'flash' effect that heroine does have so some addicts still use heroin besides it resulting in wonderful overdose.

Other differences are that Heroine works for 4-6 hours whilst methadone works for 24-36 hours. This is the one thing that allows them to get back to a normal day-night rhythm, And that being an opiate made under stringent rules it's very clean.

But despite using methadone quitting heroin is still hard, and after that people have to quit with methadone which is pretty much as addicting. But allows as said for a more normal life rhythm.

My aunt is a doc for a rehab clinic, and from what I hear from her, these people almost never come back to having full satisfying lives at all, and still have more relapses then you can count.

O rry?

from wiki-
Heroin assisted treatment is fully a part of the national health system in Switzerland, Germany, the Netherlands, Denmark and the United Kingdom. Additional trials are being carried out in Canada and Belgium.

more to the point that you dont know wtf youre talking about, how the fuck do they relapse if they are already getting heroin from the clinics 2 to 3 times/day?
youve really outdone yourself this time antisocial boy.

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No, the nuke came right after i destroyed multiple people including but not limited to huck norris, medski, cheaa and zzkizz. i took on 6 or 7 people directly and made them all look like children. Shortly thereafter, all my posts were deleted, obviously a signal that some of these people had, like i said, gone gushing to the mods because they couldnt bear the thought or implications of them being inferior to a junkie. i even picked up some friends from it who reveled in the carnage and still pm me asking me to start more shitstorms for their enjoyment.

throughout society, there is an overwhelming bias present that tries to act as a fucking absolute authority proporting that drugs and drug use is all bad and represents a moral deficiency in inferior people. Because of this, what i say seems to come so far out of left field that people (who have been raised under said bias), simply cannot understand at first that what im saying is completely sensical and backed by unadulterated reason.

But believe what you want. Its funny how you so readily root against the underdog.

Dolan.EscobarO rry?

from wiki-
Heroin assisted treatment is fully a part of the national health system in Switzerland, Germany, the Netherlands, Denmark and the United Kingdom. Additional trials are being carried out in Canada and Belgium.

more to the point that you dont know wtf youre talking about, how the fuck do they relapse if they are already getting heroin from the clinics 2 to 3 times/day?
youve really outdone yourself this time antisocial boy.

So a wiki without source is the truth now?

Here, have these links from the two largest Dutch drug treatment institutes:

http://www.jellinek.nl/vraag-antwoord/alcohol-drugs/heroine/heroineverslaving/is-voorschrijven-van-methadon-bij-heroefneverslaafden-een-succes/

http://www.trimbos.nl/onderwerpen/alcohol-en-drugs/heroine/behandeling-en-re-integratie

All they use is methadone as a replacement, there may have been a trial with actual heroine but it's definitely not the ordinary course of action.
And yes, success rate with methadone treatment is only 20-30%, and without the buzz, people do often go back to the heroin they were not getting from the clinic.


Please don't tell me what happens on a health care related topic in my country.

Huck_NorrisTruth. Junkies only wanna get high, it's just like water being wet and the sky being up. Its just the way it is. The reality is that you cannot save your friend unless you're going to call the cops on him, and even then he'll probably just go to jail and do more heroin there.


The ONLY thing I can think of is maybe staging an intervention. Not that it'll do anything honestly, but at least that way you can know you tried your best to avoid the ridiculous guilt trip when he does eventually die.

Sorry, i missed this. Huck youre a fucking narcotics agent, and you know what you post is false and you post it anyway. like "omg ur friend uses heroin! Omg hes gonna die! Theres no such thing as long term addicts! They all die!"
huck just curious, what is your view on geriatric addicts who have been using for decades? What do you think of chronic pain sufferers who take opiates everyday until they die of old age?

really huck, get a life. Youre a child. opiate related deaths are the exception among opiate addicts, not the rule. You have no idea how many people can keep their shit together and use them responsibly. Its people like you that ruin it for everyone.

Tell him that he will die if he doesn't stop, and show him stories of people who have died from it. Some people understand the importance of things better if they see examples. Though he knows it will kill him, he may not fully grasp that until he sees stories of other people going through that. Even then he may not, but it's worth trying.

omnidataSo a wiki without source is the truth now?

Here, have these links from the two largest Dutch drug treatment institutes:

http://www.jellinek.nl/vraag-antwoord/alcohol-drugs/heroine/heroineverslaving/is-voorschrijven-van-methadon-bij-heroefneverslaafden-een-succes/

http://www.trimbos.nl/onderwerpen/alcohol-en-drugs/heroine/behandeling-en-re-integratie

All they use is methadone as a replacement, there may have been a trial with actual heroine but it's definitely not the ordinary course of action.
And yes, success rate with methadone treatment is only 20-30%, and without the buzz, people do often go back to the heroin they were not getting from the clinic.


Please don't tell me what happens on a health care related topic in my country.

Ill link you to the website i discovered years ago, the place i first found out about these full agonist treatments in europe. Its called the european monitoring center for drugs and drug addiction (emcdda) heres the page on dutch treatment- http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/data/treatment-overviews/Netherlands

excerpt-Methadone has been the most commonly prescribed substitution substance since 1968. Heroin-assisted treatment (HAT, introduced in 1998) and high-dosage buprenorphine treatment (introduced in 1999) are also available.

Hey by the way omnidata, im an american, so if you want to know any fucking thing in the world about america, you can ask me. Im an american, so i obviously know more about america than you could ever find out from the internet...

dude your pathetic, you think because you live in ned you can pass your feces off as official information. Oh, and robbens a flopping bitch

Also its funny how you insult wiki, when it turns out thats where you SHOULDVE gone to find out whats going on in ur own fucking country haha

Sh4dowTell him that he will die if he doesn't stop, and show him stories of people who have died from it. Some people understand the importance of things better if they see examples. Though he knows it will kill him, he may not fully grasp that until he sees stories of other people going through that. Even then he may not, but it's worth trying.

Doesnt read thread, embarassment ensues

Everyone telling you to say this or that is dead wrong. There is absolutely NOTHING that you can do to force him to get clean. He's going to have to hit rock bottom first and obviously he isn't there yet. Moving won't work. You can find dope anywhere in this country...and believe me, a sick junkie will find it regardless of where they are.

And for what it's worth, suboxone sucks major ass. i don't know a single person who has gotten clean with subs. they just use it as a bridge between dope binges...kind of like your friend. i feel this is due to the fact that subs only make you....not sick. they don't get you well. Doesn't do shit for cravings.

I only know one person who has undergone ibogaine....and it didn't work. No such thing as a free lunch.

I do know a few people who have gotten clean with methadone. While it certainly comes with it's own problems, at least it provides a glow that junkies crave. But, once again, if he's not ready to quit bangin' dope, methadone isn't going to change that either.

Maybe go to some Al-Anon meetings where you will be taught there is nothing you can do to convince him hes doing wrong other than ignore him till he reaches his bottom and asks for help. Seriously, there's nothing you can do. Trying to have an intervention will just push him away. His addiction is a disease that forces his mind to put the drugs first, thats it. There's nothing you can do. I can talk from experience.

Dolan.EscobarIll link you to the website i discovered years ago, the place i first found out about these full agonist treatments in europe. Its called the european monitoring center for drugs and drug addiction (emcdda) heres the page on dutch treatment- http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/data/treatment-overviews/Netherlands

excerpt-Methadone has been the most commonly prescribed substitution substance since 1968. Heroin-assisted treatment (HAT, introduced in 1998) and high-dosage buprenorphine treatment (introduced in 1999) are also available.

Well I made a mistake, I found this paper from my med school right after I posted my last message http://dare.uva.nl/document/207365, quite an interesting read about the HAT trials in the Netherlands including a wealth of information about well-being, you should like it.

And maybe I should stop using my old ass medical books as a source, which still lists Methadone as the only treatment and HAT as a trial.

And Trimbos should also update their bloody webpage, making me look a right nob.

Also I hate Robben with a passion.

Barefootin_FiendEveryone telling you to say this or that is dead wrong. There is absolutely NOTHING that you can do to force him to get clean. He's going to have to hit rock bottom first and obviously he isn't there yet. Moving won't work. You can find dope anywhere in this country...and believe me, a sick junkie will find it regardless of where they are.

And for what it's worth, suboxone sucks major ass. i don't know a single person who has gotten clean with subs. they just use it as a bridge between dope binges...kind of like your friend. i feel this is due to the fact that subs only make you....not sick. they don't get you well. Doesn't do shit for cravings.

I only know one person who has undergone ibogaine....and it didn't work. No such thing as a free lunch.

I do know a few people who have gotten clean with methadone. While it certainly comes with it's own problems, at least it provides a glow that junkies crave. But, once again, if he's not ready to quit bangin' dope, methadone isn't going to change that either.

Yup

omnidataWell I made a mistake, I found this paper from my med school right after I posted my last message http://dare.uva.nl/document/207365, quite an interesting read about the HAT trials in the Netherlands including a wealth of information about well-being, you should like it.

And maybe I should stop using my old ass medical books as a source, which still lists Methadone as the only treatment and HAT as a trial.

And Trimbos should also update their bloody webpage, making me look a right nob.

Also I hate Robben with a passion.

fair enough. Glad to hear you dont like robben either. I think his whole game depends on people giving him space for fear of him diving, hes neither as good as he seems nor as good as he thinks he is

Wow, im pretty impressed. I thought i was going to have to go to war on this subject again but it seems like alot of people on here remember the last time and have a actual understanding of this shit now.
maybe yoski would be a stretch tho... Hes just afraid of me

Dolan.EscobarWow, im pretty impressed. I thought i was going to have to go to war on this subject again but it seems like alot of people on here remember the last time and have a actual understanding of this shit now.
maybe yoski would be a stretch tho... Hes just afraid of me

You are completely delusional. Heroin is a terrible drug and my nephew passed away from an overdose. You obviously have no experience using it so shut the fuck up.

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Yeah

MikeWeinerONEYou are completely delusional. Heroin is a terrible drug and my nephew passed away from an overdose. You obviously have no experience using it so shut the fuck up.

Whatever man. Blame the drug. Typical copout

MikeWeinerONEYou are completely delusional. Heroin is a terrible drug and my nephew passed away from an overdose. You obviously have no experience using it so shut the fuck up.

Im sorry about ur nephew, but hes part of the exception. Not the rule. Plenty of people function fine in their life while on opiates, and in fact the biggest killer is rehab itself. Many addicts go to rehab where they are clean for a month, so their tolerance goes down. When they go back to using if they use their normal dose, it will often be too much because of their rehab-lowered tolerance and they od. And ive been on opiates since 2009 off and on b4 that since 2006. dont make blanket statements because of what youve seen as the exception. you look senile doing it

Dolan.EscobarIm sorry about ur nephew, but hes part of the exception. Not the rule. Plenty of people function fine in their life while on opiates, and in fact the biggest killer is rehab itself. Many addicts go to rehab where they are clean for a month, so their tolerance goes down. When they go back to using if they use their normal dose, it will often be too much because of their rehab-lowered tolerance and they od. And ive been on opiates since 2009 off and on b4 that since 2006. dont make blanket statements because of what youve seen as the exception. you look senile doing it

You need to shut up now.

Dolan.EscobarIm sorry about ur nephew, but hes part of the exception. Not the rule. Plenty of people function fine in their life while on opiates, and in fact the biggest killer is rehab itself. Many addicts go to rehab where they are clean for a month, so their tolerance goes down. When they go back to using if they use their normal dose, it will often be too much because of their rehab-lowered tolerance and they od. And ive been on opiates since 2009 off and on b4 that since 2006. dont make blanket statements because of what youve seen as the exception. you look senile doing it

Jesus, dude you have no fucking clue. You are lying to yourself.

ESBYou need to shut up now.

Ribss.Jesus, dude you have no fucking clue. You are lying to yourself.

Do you have any idea how many people in this country are addicted to opiates?

I hope this is a fucking joke.

Ever think that NS is not the best place to seek advice on how to help your friend cope and manage a crippling drug addiction?

There are lots of resources out there. NS is not one of them.

rachI hope this is a fucking joke.

Ever think that NS is not the best place to seek advice on how to help your friend cope and manage a crippling drug addiction?

There are lots of resources out there. NS is not one of them.

Yeah, like rehab. theyll tell you heroin is da debil and god is da answer. Then with your tolerance lowered if your one of the 9 out of 10 heroin addicts who relapse, you run a good chance of oding and dying. Ah rehab...