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Avy Dogs: Where to start?

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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,183
Well I'm in high school, live with my parents. Anyway I can only get a dog if I pay for it. That's fine with me, since I'm old enough to get a job now. Anyway if I did get a dog I'd want to train it for backcountry safety so I could take it into bc and be a little bit safer. Also I'd take it hiking, biking, etc. Also just a side note but Avy dog breeds are usually either shepherds, collies, or retrievers. I'd most likely get a retriever.

So anyway where should I start? Where can I get a good deal on a dog?(would want to buy as a puppie maybe) also how would I train? Train it myself or go to training sessions or send it to training sessions?

Should I get a male or female? I've heads females or more calm.

Really just want info. Has any of you guys done this before? Just don't know where to start....
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Aug 10 2014 8:41PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51652 - Karma: 162,358
If you're actually blasting around big lines or hitting cliffs and chutes would you even want a dog with you? I feel like it wouldn't be practical and you'd be better spent buying proper gear for yourself and getting instruction on backcountry safety.
Aug 10 2014 8:55PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,183
theabortionatorIf you're actually blasting around big lines or hitting cliffs and chutes would you even want a dog with you? I feel like it wouldn't be practical and you'd be better spent buying proper gear for yourself and getting instruction on backcountry safety.


I'd only have the dog with me for slower days. Sorry for not clarifying. Like preseason hikes in resort boundaries when lifts aren't open. Stuff where the dog can keep up. And I'm not buying the dog as my source of safety. I'd still go into the bc with other people who have and know how to use beacons, probes, shovels, etc. I've taken a simple Avy class but I'm gonna take more.
Aug 10 2014 9:57PM
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Bread.
Posts: 769 - Karma: 540
How would one get into the business of working at a resort with a avalanche dog? I would kill for that job.
Aug 10 2014 10:18PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51652 - Karma: 162,358
Bread.How would one get into the business of working at a resort with a avalanche dog? I would kill for that job.


Now sure but getting into ski patrol at a resort with some backcounty probably isn't a bad place to start.
Aug 10 2014 10:22PM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,748
Handlers are patrollers I think pretty much always.

Working with a couple dogs now (I'm not the owner or primary handler for either), and it's pretty damn cool, and yet lots of work (mostly digging friggin deep ass holes, turning up snow to look like avy debris, and then laying in cold as holes backfilled for way too long).

If you're serious about it, go into a local ski area near you and ask about their program. They'll be able to direct you to local resources, and possibly be able to help you get started. I've never heard of a "civilian" avy dog, or heard of them in a context other than search and rescue professionals and ski patrol, but who knows.
Aug 10 2014 10:26PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,183
casualHandlers are patrollers I think pretty much always.

Working with a couple dogs now (I'm not the owner or primary handler for either), and it's pretty damn cool, and yet lots of work (mostly digging friggin deep ass holes, turning up snow to look like avy debris, and then laying in cold as holes backfilled for way too long).

If you're serious about it, go into a local ski area near you and ask about their program. They'll be able to direct you to local resources, and possibly be able to help you get started. I've never heard of a "civilian" avy dog, or heard of them in a context other than search and rescue professionals and ski patrol, but who knows.


Thing about my ski area is it's not too great when it comes to stuff like that. I'm not sure if they have a dog but I'll ask. But if I did ask they only run during winter, which is December for them, and I want to get the pupp before that if I can.
Aug 11 2014 12:01AM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,748
Grizzly.ButtahThing about my ski area is it's not too great when it comes to stuff like that. I'm not sure if they have a dog but I'll ask. But if I did ask they only run during winter, which is December for them, and I want to get the pupp before that if I can.


Dude, I don't know where you live, but in any part of the country where avy dogs are a "thing", ski areas are 365 days a year businesses. I promise you there is someone for you to talk to, whether it be the director or the snow safety/snow science guy.

And, to be blunt, if you're serious about it, the dog should pretty much be in structured training from the get go like any other professional/working dog. It just sounds like your putting the cart before the horse a little bit. Good luck, man
Aug 11 2014 6:53AM
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spaceghostpurp
Posts: 249 - Karma: 835
i suggest you get a german retriever.
Aug 11 2014 8:53AM
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
combining 2 things you have little real world experience is gonna be tough.
you can get a dog and train it to do anything
you won't have a certified avvy dog outside the parameters of a resorts snow safety program or sar.
you'd have better luck training a sar or cadeaver dog and then hoping to cross train it for avvy work.
i doubt sar will even let you voli w/out skills
in the wasatch all training /certs go through

http://www.wbrescue.org/
Aug 11 2014 9:57AM
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Pipe_Munky
Posts: 10888 - Karma: 2,184
I would say look at a boarder collie. They're super energetic and make really good trail dogs
Aug 11 2014 10:25AM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,183
casualDude, I don't know where you live, but in any part of the country where avy dogs are a "thing", ski areas are 365 days a year businesses. I promise you there is someone for you to talk to, whether it be the director or the snow safety/snow science guy.

And, to be blunt, if you're serious about it, the dog should pretty much be in structured training from the get go like any other professional/working dog. It just sounds like your putting the cart before the horse a little bit. Good luck, man


Alright thanks. And yeah I could find someone but not at the area. I ski at pebble creek idaho. I love the mountain, but they really only have a few people in the summer doing stuff(mostly terrain park people) and the people are up there maybe 1 day out of the week. And they won't have people up there full time until first snowfall. And I would put the dog in training right at first.
Aug 11 2014 10:44AM
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yeahno
Posts: 4008 - Karma: 3,414
get a cat
Aug 11 2014 10:45AM
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iLLbiLLy
Posts: 2865 - Karma: 2,631
I would recommend getting and training an avalanche cat.



In the past couple years, CARCA has really proven that avalanche cats are superior to dogs.

http://carca.ca/
Aug 11 2014 11:59AM
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I_liketobutter
Posts: 2664 - Karma: 997
I've talked to quite a few patrollers in CO about avy dogs, their training, life, etc. The one thing I've taken away it that it is a serious undertaking. These dogs are trained all day everyday since they were puppies up on the mountain. All of the dogs are owned by patrollers. It also takes a special type of dog. Some have tried and the dog just doesn't have the personality.

But again, these are patrol/avy dogs. It sounds like you want a dog that can tag along on winter and summer mtn stuff. Idk about having one in between.
Aug 11 2014 12:21PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,183
It sounds like my best option is to just get a dog that can tag along with me on outings rather than training it for Avy full time.
Aug 11 2014 12:27PM
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Z-PAULY.
Posts: 559 - Karma: 284
yea dude training an avy dog is hard work. to me it sounds that you want a dog to just tag along with you when hiking up/ skinning during preseason and then to run down with you during your line. honestly any breed of those that you listed are pretty energetic and playful and will do that with you. just get your dog and train it normally and since youre their owner it will most likely love you just how dogs do with their owner and will tag along with you anywhere.
Aug 11 2014 1:42PM
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SkiBum.
Posts: 3600 - Karma: 3,909
Just put bacon in your pockets. Dog will easily find you.

This makes just as much sense as your entire idea.
Aug 11 2014 2:08PM
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theBOSS.
Posts: 4705 - Karma: 496
You should also probably realize that avy dogs aren't some magical creature that can hone in on you immediately and save you in an avalanche situation. Avy dogs are used almost exclusively to locate bodies after it can safely be assumed the person/people buried have already died and the urgency of a search has subsided.

I have done mock searches with a VERY good avy dog (one of Alta's dogs) and they take quite a while to find a person. Like 20+ minutes in ideal conditions in a tiny debris field. They are easily thrown off if other people are upwind or in the area. They are NOT there to save you in an emergency situation, and are absolutely no replacement for proper search and rescue skills and good equipment.

Also, as mentioned, these dogs are trained for hours a day for their whole lives. They typically only use one specific breed (I can't remember what off the top of my head) and the dogs live most of their lives on the mountain working with multiple patrollers. Not trying to shoot you down, but I don't think you realize the limitations of what the dogs can do and the tremendous undertaking involved in training these animals.

**This post was edited on Aug 11th 2014 at 2:38:53pm
Aug 11 2014 2:37PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,183
Z-PAULY.yea dude training an avy dog is hard work. to me it sounds that you want a dog to just tag along with you when hiking up/ skinning during preseason and then to run down with you during your line. honestly any breed of those that you listed are pretty energetic and playful and will do that with you. just get your dog and train it normally and since youre their owner it will most likely love you just how dogs do with their owner and will tag along with you anywhere.


Yeah probably I'll just do this. I knew it was gonna be a lot of work but didn't know it would take up this much time.
Aug 11 2014 3:20PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,183
theBOSS.You should also probably realize that avy dogs aren't some magical creature that can hone in on you immediately and save you in an avalanche situation. Avy dogs are used almost exclusively to locate bodies after it can safely be assumed the person/people buried have already died and the urgency of a search has subsided.

I have done mock searches with a VERY good avy dog (one of Alta's dogs) and they take quite a while to find a person. Like 20+ minutes in ideal conditions in a tiny debris field. They are easily thrown off if other people are upwind or in the area. They are NOT there to save you in an emergency situation, and are absolutely no replacement for proper search and rescue skills and good equipment.

Also, as mentioned, these dogs are trained for hours a day for their whole lives. They typically only use one specific breed (I can't remember what off the top of my head) and the dogs live most of their lives on the mountain working with multiple patrollers. Not trying to shoot you down, but I don't think you realize the limitations of what the dogs can do and the tremendous undertaking involved in training these animals.

**This post was edited on Aug 11th 2014 at 2:38:53pm


Sorry for the dub post but it won't let me quote two replies in one reply for some reason. And yeah I knew it was a lot of work just didn't know this much work. I think I'll be much better off just having a Dog to tag along.
Aug 11 2014 3:24PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,183
The referenced post has been removed.


It could. But while I was taking a Avy class the instructor told us a couple stories where the dog would get buried with someone or by itself and the dog could dig itself out.
Aug 11 2014 4:06PM
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Mr.noodle
Posts: 1361 - Karma: 4,651
Craigslist has dogs for free and cheap but I don't know any of the other questions
Aug 11 2014 6:23PM
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Steve-Huffnagle
Posts: 16 - Karma: 38
so happy you brought this up, I am actually really interested in becoming an avalanche dog, mom said I could do anything I set my mind to so im fucking sending it.
Aug 11 2014 8:32PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51652 - Karma: 162,358
SkiBum.Just put bacon in your pockets. Dog will easily find you.

This makes just as much sense as your entire idea.



So true I have a pic some where of a dog following me up the tbar next to a park when I was going up to work in the morning. Brought a bacon egg and cheese and coffee with me and the dog was trying to get down on my breakfast.
Aug 11 2014 8:35PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,183
theabortionatorSo true I have a pic some where of a dog following me up the tbar next to a park when I was going up to work in the morning. Brought a bacon egg and cheese and coffee with me and the dog was trying to get down on my breakfast.


Guess I'll just do this haha
Aug 11 2014 8:54PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51652 - Karma: 162,358
Buy lassie. If anything happens to you she'll go straight for help and everyone will save you just in the nick of time.
Aug 12 2014 2:38AM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,183
theabortionatorBuy lassie. If anything happens to you she'll go straight for help and everyone will save you just in the nick of time.


Haha good call
Aug 12 2014 9:09AM
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baked
Posts: 56 - Karma: 99
Get a husky they love it in the backcountry, the dog might even drop bgger cliffs then you.
Aug 12 2014 9:28AM
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PeppermillReno
Posts: 4805 - Karma: -650
Love your pet for who they are and their companionship.

Do not try and turn your dog into a service dog just for the sake of it. I've seen pricks flying with their dog for seizures or anxiety before and its extremely obnoxious and selfish to put the animal through that type of thing for one's own amusement.
Aug 12 2014 8:07PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,183
PeppermillRenoLove your pet for who they are and their companionship.

Do not try and turn your dog into a service dog just for the sake of it. I've seen pricks flying with their dog for seizures or anxiety before and its extremely obnoxious and selfish to put the animal through that type of thing for one's own amusement.


Well I'm gonna love the dog no matter what...

And I'm not making him a "service dog". I just wanted a cool companion to tag along with me and maybe dig me or a buddy out of a Avy haha but if you read the thread you'd know that I've decided just to get the dog as a tag along. No Avy training.
Aug 12 2014 9:41PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51652 - Karma: 162,358
Grizzly.ButtahWell I'm gonna love the dog no matter what...

And I'm not making him a "service dog". I just wanted a cool companion to tag along with me and maybe dig me or a buddy out of a Avy haha but if you read the thread you'd know that I've decided just to get the dog as a tag along. No Avy training.


Do they even really dig people out? I don't really know much but I thought they were more for locating people so that the search team can dig them out.

Just thinking that even if you had the dog and it knew where you were if you were buried you'd still be fucked
Aug 12 2014 10:30PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,183
theabortionatorDo they even really dig people out? I don't really know much but I thought they were more for locating people so that the search team can dig them out.

Just thinking that even if you had the dog and it knew where you were if you were buried you'd still be fucked


Well yeah but I'm not gonna train it for Avy cuz it would take up too much time. And also you can train them to dig as well as locate.
Aug 13 2014 12:21AM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,748
theabortionatorDo they even really dig people out? I don't really know much but I thought they were more for locating people so that the search team can dig them out.

Just thinking that even if you had the dog and it knew where you were if you were buried you'd still be fucked


Dogs do dig. We do big debris fields and multiple burials, and part of the drill is that you are buried with a chew/tug of war toy, and when the dog uncovers you, you reward him or her by pulling them in the hole and playing tug with them. Some dogs aren't as into it, and I've seen some dogs just alert, do a cursory dig, and then the dog loses interest or moves on depending on the handler and hands on deck.

Dogs are definitely body finders. I don't believe there has EVER been a live burial recovery by a dog. However, they're hugely useful for situations where the person(s) buried don't have a beacon on.

To whoever said dogs take 20 minutes or whatever, well, not in my experience. I've seen one dog alert and daylight 2 people in something like 8 minutes on a steep, by the book 100x100 debris field (the one used on the test/cert). I've seen some other dogs struggle, or do somewhere in the middle, but generally, a well-trained avy dog who gets lots of work and practice is really damn fast.
Aug 13 2014 8:16AM
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
ive been an underground voli victim in over a dozen wbr certs.
the cert requires you be buried for 20 min in order for a good scent cone to permeate the snow and other scents to disapate
that's not to say a good handler/dog team needs that time. depth of burial winds handlers skill all factor
lot of misinformation
they are on resort premises for rescue you in emergency situations because the majority of resort skiers don't have or use equipment/skills to initiate rescues.
they are also various breeds as you see 5 differnt breeds @ sillytude

Ike passed away this last season from bloat way to soon(5 years old)
my bro was crushed and i'm not sure he's gonna undertake training another
the time and effort involved was huge.
i myself have more faith in well trained certified dog teams than recco or the time it takes to organize and began a probeline.
then again almost everyone i ski with beeps and rides inbounds w/ gear.
Aug 13 2014 9:06AM
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iLLbiLLy
Posts: 2865 - Karma: 2,631
The referenced post has been removed.


You bet your bottom dollar its real
Aug 13 2014 3:10PM
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iLLbiLLy
Posts: 2865 - Karma: 2,631
son of a bitch i can't embed anymore

http://youtu.be/JAYQyrsX1HM
Aug 13 2014 3:11PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,183
iLLbiLLyson of a bitch i can't embed anymore

http://youtu.be/JAYQyrsX1HM


That was entertaining
Aug 13 2014 5:14PM
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ZachAndCheese
Posts: 816 - Karma: 5,116
Have you thought about many sled dog breeds? I have had Samoyeds my whole life and have skied mellow back country with them multiple times. They're awesome dogs, active, loyal and chill. They're pretty playful and literally built for snow. Definitely give them a look, they are the cutest puppies. Pic for samoyed cuteness cred
Aug 13 2014 5:24PM
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