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Girls week with no girls??

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pcurran871
Posts: 263 - Karma: 152
I saw the video momentum camps posted from 'girls' week and couldn't help but notice the lack of girls skiing in the video. There was maybe 15 seconds showing a couple of clips and that was about it and there was more footage of girls dancing than skiing. I don't make very many forum threads but having seen other thread discussions, having girl skiers as friends and from knowing the ski industry in general, I can't help but feel this is just another back handed slap at our female friends in skiing. I know the camp week isn't just for girls but surely if they are going to go as far as calling it girls week they should put a little bit more emphasis on having female skiers in their videos? I'm keen to hear the opinions from any girls out there even if they disagree with my opinion. Do you think this is a back handed slap? Or is simply calling it girls week satisfactory enough? I'm not a girl and would never presume to speak for them on the matter but I am curious about what other people think about this.

Here is the video for anyone who hasn't seen it:

https://www.newschoolers.com/watch/720483.0/Momentum-Session-3-Edit?c=11
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Jul 25 2014 2:10AM
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Mingg
Posts: 13992 - Karma: 49,657
Well, what can ya do? It sucks but there really aren't a whole lot of girls who ski. It was me and one other girl skier at my camp. For our camp edit we can't expect to take up a lot of time in it because we weren't as good as a lot of the guys there and there's only 2 of us.

I'm not good enough to say I should be in an edit. I'd say I'm an intermediate and a lot of camp edits have their more advanced skiers in it to bring attention to their camp. In my opinion if a girl, including myself, wants to be in an edit then she should work her way to the level of the edit. I don't want things handed to me. If girls get things handed to them in skiing it'll make the sport a joke, and to some the sport already is a joke.

I wish there were more girls in the sport. When the girls side of the sport progresses more I don't think we'll have this problem. But for now we just gotta keep shredding and getting better so we can have the same respect guys have.

Oh and yes, it is a slap in the face but you can't get hung up on it. It shows that there's doubt in the skiing ability of the girls and the only way to get past that is to show those people up.

tl;dr - Girls shouldn't feel entitled to be in edits if they aren't at the level of the edit. It's a huge slap in the face to disregard girls week in the edit but we gotta get over it and show up the people who doubt us.
Jul 25 2014 3:00AM
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ModMommy
Posts: 10834 - Karma: 57,448
Mingg is right about the entitlement, however in otder to progress, or even see progression you gotta get out there and film. Especially if it's being advertised as a girl's camp or girl's week. You need to feature shots if girls throwing down, have some solid footage. It doesn't matter if they're huge tricks, see indb someone do anything is enough stoke. It's just like guys edits, but with the other gender.
As for attracting females, dudes gotta be more accepting and girls gotta start getting into the park more. There's not much you can do if they're isn't the traffic.
Personally, I went to race camps where there are plenty of girls. Freestyle wasn't on my radar, ore even that welcoming so I overlooked it.
Jul 25 2014 3:04AM
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Chubz.
Posts: 13918 - Karma: 25,664
MinggWell, what can ya do? It sucks but there really aren't a whole lot of girls who ski. It was me and one other girl skier at my camp. For our camp edit we can't expect to take up a lot of time in it because we weren't as good as a lot of the guys there and there's only 2 of us.

I'm not good enough to say I should be in an edit. I'd say I'm an intermediate and a lot of camp edits have their more advanced skiers in it to bring attention to their camp. In my opinion if a girl, including myself, wants to be in an edit then she should work her way to the level of the edit. I don't want things handed to me. If girls get things handed to them in skiing it'll make the sport a joke, and to some the sport already is a joke.

I wish there were more girls in the sport. When the girls side of the sport progresses more I don't think we'll have this problem. But for now we just gotta keep shredding and getting better so we can have the same respect guys have.

Oh and yes, it is a slap in the face but you can't get hung up on it. It shows that there's doubt in the skiing ability of the girls and the only way to get past that is to show those people up.

tl;dr - Girls shouldn't feel entitled to be in edits if they aren't at the level of the edit. It's a huge slap in the face to disregard girls week in the edit but we gotta get over it and show up the people who doubt us.


I think I'm in love.
Jul 25 2014 3:35AM
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toastyteenagers
Posts: 1834 - Karma: 6,793
Mingg:Well, what can ya do?


I'm not sure about you but I live on the internet and there is something we can do.

We can email momentum and get mad at them
Jul 25 2014 7:40AM
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Mingg
Posts: 13992 - Karma: 49,657
RailersailerMingg:Well, what can ya do?


I'm not sure about you but I live on the internet and there is something we can do.

We can email momentum and get mad at them


And they will probably just make a girl only edit which just separates girls from guys once again in the sport and puts us at a different standard. Also, in the edit they didn't have many campers as it was. It wasn't just targeted towards girls.
Jul 25 2014 11:51AM
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00000000
Posts: 11075 - Karma: 82,508
It would be rad to see more chicks ripping in these camp edits, but that doesn't mean watching girl campers is more exciting or a better marketing move for Momentum. Note that these camps drop lots of cash to produce these videos, and I would assume the main goal is to get people stoked to sign up. Super pros throwing down probably does a good job at accomplishing that.

Also, is girl's week only about the skiing? I'm pretty sure they included those off-hill activities because they are a lot of fun and probably very enjoyable for the campers. Note, it was also Exposure week -- but doesn't mean they should fill the edit with shots of kids snapping photos and getting follows.

Last but not least, I don't think there is anything wrong with doing a Girls Week specific edit -- and I'd actually be stoked on watching that.

Just my 2 cents!

PS. Thread title is misleading, as there ARE girls in the edit.
Jul 25 2014 12:27PM
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toastyteenagers
Posts: 1834 - Karma: 6,793
MinggAnd they will probably just make a girl only edit which just separates girls from guys once again in the sport and puts us at a different standard. Also, in the edit they didn't have many campers as it was. It wasn't just targeted towards girls.


I'm pretty sure the target demo for momentum is for teenage boys
Jul 25 2014 12:28PM
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Mingg
Posts: 13992 - Karma: 49,657
MousseauAlso, is girl's week only about the skiing? I'm pretty sure they included those off-hill activities because they are a lot of fun and probably very enjoyable for the campers.


Yeah. A lot of the girls that I saw in the edit looked to be 12-16 or so. Girls at that age most likely aren't going to camp to go pro. Some might be pro one day but for the most part they just love skiing and want to have a good time so that's probably why they had a lot of off hill things in the edit. They gotta appeal to the average camper.
Jul 25 2014 1:03PM
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brend
Posts: 779 - Karma: 3,608
Session 3 has a lot going on in it compared with other weeks. The sunset shoot. exposure/photography week , and also girls week. There are bound to be more shots from the sunset shoot because the shots look awesome and are a great way to market the camp. I think that if girls week was in another session there would be more girls in the edit.
Jul 25 2014 1:07PM
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t_rob
Posts: 6433 - Karma: 11,459
Momentum usually gives the girl's week its own edit and has at least 5 big name xgames/dewtour girl pros there. I bet a girl's only edit is coming.
Jul 25 2014 2:24PM
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pcurran871
Posts: 263 - Karma: 152
I wasn’t meaning to completely have a go at momentum. I understand they spend money to produce these videos but for all the other weeks they have pretty much only guys in the videos. My point was that if they are going to call it girls week then why not do it properly? They could have got some of the top female freeskiers to come in and I’m sure most of them would be happy to do it for a free pass to shred at momentum as it's top quality as far as summer parks go.

RailersailerI'm pretty sure the target demo for momentum is for teenage boys


Yes I get that but surely if momentum became the first camp to properly cater for girls there are enough girls who would see the edit and be stoked and want to go the following summer. That is what’s happening with female specific park skis,; girls see their favorite female pros skiing on those skis and so they buy them.

MousseauPS. Thread title is misleading, as there ARE girls in the edit.


Haha if my thread title is misleading then so is momentums... Apologies.
Jul 25 2014 2:42PM
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00000000
Posts: 11075 - Karma: 82,508
pcurran871Haha if my thread title is misleading then so is momentums... Apologies.


I don't think their titles or descriptions are misleading, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Jul 25 2014 3:34PM
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Breaking_Rad
Posts: 478 - Karma: 1,095
They typically do put a girls week edit out, but it is usually like 6 months from now so it definitely takes a backseat.

I agree...Momentum seems to hold the pole-position in terms of the fact they offer a "girls-specific" week, but they definitely aren't as powerful in their after-camp message. A lot of girls are likely proud to attend and learn in that camp (and I'd hope the coaches feel the same), but Momentum could certainly help build on that with a proud and powerful (and timely) girls-edit.

Not to diss on Momentum. I hope it happens and it is merely constructive feedback. After all, compared to the other camps out there they actually have embraced the girls side of the sport.
Jul 25 2014 5:04PM
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Breaking_Rad
Posts: 478 - Karma: 1,095
Breaking_RadThey typically do put a girls week edit out, but it is usually like 6 months from now so it definitely takes a backseat.

I agree...Momentum seems to hold the pole-position in terms of the fact they offer a "girls-specific" week, but they definitely aren't as powerful in their after-camp message. A lot of girls are likely proud to attend and learn in that camp (and I'd hope the coaches feel the same), but Momentum could certainly help build on that with a proud and powerful (and timely) girls-edit.

Not to diss on Momentum. I hope it happens and it is merely constructive feedback. After all, compared to the other camps out there they actually have embraced the girls side of the sport.


And maybe it is simply a good marketing ploy as it seems over 50 girls attended this year so that is over a 120k revenue-impact to the ol' bottom line. But again, with that many girls showing it seems like they could build further on the brand and certainly showcase the girl coaches and campers that are progressing and inspire future girls. Are coaches or campers throwing switch-triples? No, but progress is likely being made.
Jul 25 2014 5:14PM
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brend
Posts: 779 - Karma: 3,608
Breaking_RadAnd maybe it is simply a good marketing ploy as it seems over 50 girls attended this year so that is over a 120k revenue-impact to the ol' bottom line. But again, with that many girls showing it seems like they could build further on the brand and certainly showcase the girl coaches and campers that are progressing and inspire future girls. Are coaches or campers throwing switch-triples? No, but progress is likely being made.


I went to session 4 and they told us that there were about 150 campers in session 3. That means that one third of the campers that went were girls.
Jul 25 2014 5:53PM
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pcurran871
Posts: 263 - Karma: 152
MousseauI don't think their titles or descriptions are misleading, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.



I thought the title was Momentum Session 3 Girls Week when I made this discussion earlier but I don't have any way to check. Either way its fine now so apologies. My discussion was more about the lack of representation of female freeskiers than the title anyway... I wasn't trying to attack momentum because they offer a girls week when many other camps do not but that doesn't mean they couldn't/ shouldn't do a little bit more.

For the record I do like momentum camps (although I've never been) and they do a lot during the summer to bring on so many peoples skiing. I just think with the huge reputation they have they could do a bit more. They are definitely nowhere near the worst company for it but maybe if they led the way then more companies would get involved too.
Jul 25 2014 7:21PM
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lurking
Posts: 2222 - Karma: 6,788
Probably an unpopular opinion, and I'm all for progression of the women's side of the sport, but if I were Momentum, I wouldn't drop that kind of cash to produce a girls edit unless you have some of the big names in it (i.e. Maggie Voison, Devin Logan) and even then, when do have shots of the campers, make sure its not just a 3 or a 5, that's not going to get anyone psyched, that is a routine trick for most teenage guys that ski park. Women's freeskiing needs to progress before they start getting their own edits, hell in the Olympics (the top athletes of the sport), the winning run was "Disaster-back 2 out, 90 whole way, 50/50-90 out, switch 7, switch misty 9, flat 5". For a gold medal winning CHAMPION of the sport, that is a pretty mediocre run. Some 12 year old boys can do a better run than that. Girls week shouldn't exist until there are enough girls to support and justify having it.

/endrant/commence-shitstrom

TL/DR: Girls week shouldn't be advertised until women get their shit together and can actually justify having one
Jul 26 2014 12:31AM
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tcm.worldwide
Posts: 563 - Karma: 3,460
I was at momentum session 3, I thought because it was girls week there would be girls everywhere. There was honestly like 20-30 girls maybe not even. Most of the girls there were really young like around 10-13 but there was some older ones, it was kinda disappointing lol.
Jul 26 2014 2:21AM
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Breaking_Rad
Posts: 478 - Karma: 1,095
loganschnurProbably an unpopular opinion, and I'm all for progression of the women's side of the sport, but if I were Momentum, I wouldn't drop that kind of cash to produce a girls edit unless you have some of the big names in it (i.e. Maggie Voison, Devin Logan) and even then, when do have shots of the campers, make sure its not just a 3 or a 5, that's not going to get anyone psyched, that is a routine trick for most teenage guys that ski park. Women's freeskiing needs to progress before they start getting their own edits, hell in the Olympics (the top athletes of the sport), the winning run was "Disaster-back 2 out, 90 whole way, 50/50-90 out, switch 7, switch misty 9, flat 5". For a gold medal winning CHAMPION of the sport, that is a pretty mediocre run. Some 12 year old boys can do a better run than that. Girls week shouldn't exist until there are enough girls to support and justify having it.

/endrant/commence-shitstrom

TL/DR: Girls week shouldn't be advertised until women get their shit together and can actually justify having one


Couple 12-year old girls doing Cork 7s in there. Flat 3s, Misty 5/7s, Disasters, 270 ons/offs, switchups.... All within the realm and done. Again, not triples, but I don't think w/ Exposure campers and the filming the campers paid for the 'budget is blown' to put out a decent edit. In other words pairing some solid footage + moguls (lots of girl backies) the dancing and weekly "activities" would make a bad edit. The goal isn't Kenworthy/ABM level footage...more just advancing the girls side of the sport.
Jul 26 2014 2:22AM
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Breaking_Rad
Posts: 478 - Karma: 1,095
loganschnurProbably an unpopular opinion, and I'm all for progression of the women's side of the sport, but if I were Momentum, I wouldn't drop that kind of cash to produce a girls edit unless you have some of the big names in it (i.e. Maggie Voison, Devin Logan) and even then, when do have shots of the campers, make sure its not just a 3 or a 5, that's not going to get anyone psyched, that is a routine trick for most teenage guys that ski park. Women's freeskiing needs to progress before they start getting their own edits, hell in the Olympics (the top athletes of the sport), the winning run was "Disaster-back 2 out, 90 whole way, 50/50-90 out, switch 7, switch misty 9, flat 5". For a gold medal winning CHAMPION of the sport, that is a pretty mediocre run. Some 12 year old boys can do a better run than that. Girls week shouldn't exist until there are enough girls to support and justify having it.

/endrant/commence-shitstrom

TL/DR: Girls week shouldn't be advertised until women get their shit together and can actually justify having one


Also have to add this just because the premise is bananas..."Some 12 year old boys can do a better run than that."

I'm not going to disagree, but a Olympic "girl" weighs 120-140 lbs. Devin Logan maybe a tad more. Those jumps were ludicrous in Sochi. Find me a 12-year old boy that doesn't deck the living sh*t out of every one of those jumps and I'll buy the theory. I used to think Keri Herman was sort of a hack...then I followed her through Breck parks one day. She is anything but a hack. She totally kills.
Jul 26 2014 2:31AM
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Breaking_Rad
Posts: 478 - Karma: 1,095
pcurran871I thought the title was Momentum Session 3 Girls Week when I made this discussion earlier but I don't have any way to check. Either way its fine now so apologies. My discussion was more about the lack of representation of female freeskiers than the title anyway... I wasn't trying to attack momentum because they offer a girls week when many other camps do not but that doesn't mean they couldn't/ shouldn't do a little bit more.

For the record I do like momentum camps (although I've never been) and they do a lot during the summer to bring on so many peoples skiing. I just think with the huge reputation they have they could do a bit more. They are definitely nowhere near the worst company for it but maybe if they led the way then more companies would get involved too.


Not sure you need to apologize. Here's the last girls edit.

Took place: July 2013

Edit posted: January 2014 - http://vimeo.com/81348412

Not exactly front-burner.
Jul 26 2014 3:03AM
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GPO
Posts: 656 - Karma: 296
Breaking_RadNot sure you need to apologize. Here's the last girls edit.

Took place: July 2013

Edit posted: January 2014 - http://vimeo.com/81348412

Not exactly front-burner.


wtf
Jul 26 2014 10:28AM
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lurking
Posts: 2222 - Karma: 6,788
Breaking_RadAlso have to add this just because the premise is bananas..."Some 12 year old boys can do a better run than that."

I'm not going to disagree, but a Olympic "girl" weighs 120-140 lbs. Devin Logan maybe a tad more. Those jumps were ludicrous in Sochi. Find me a 12-year old boy that doesn't deck the living sh*t out of every one of those jumps and I'll buy the theory. I used to think Keri Herman was sort of a hack...then I followed her through Breck parks one day. She is anything but a hack. She totally kills.


Its not like they were going very deep into the landings either though. My main point was supposed to come across, as demonstrated by that girls week edit, that this shouldn't even be a topic of discussion until girls week can justify having one with the amount of girls and the skill of the girls that go.
Jul 26 2014 11:07AM
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Static
Posts: 8565 - Karma: 4,103
MousseauNote that these camps drop lots of cash to produce these videos


oh, i bet they do!
Jul 26 2014 11:11AM
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The_Joker
Posts: 121 - Karma: 380
Why they did not have as many girls skiing (I think) IS because they have to advertise the hole session in one 3min video and session three is jam packed with other things then girls week Example, Exposure, The night shoot.

Don't get me wrong Girls Week is a massive part of session 3 and they show what girls week is about in another edit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVCXesAHxmY&list=UUz_cgRRMbjm8YVl29LDY8mA
Jul 26 2014 1:44PM
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The_Joker
Posts: 121 - Karma: 380
Why they did not have as many girls skiing (I think) IS because they have to advertise the hole session in one 3min video and session three is jam packed with other things then girls week Example, Exposure, The night shoot.

Don't get me wrong Girls Week is a massive part of session 3 and they show what girls week is about in another edit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVCXesAHxmY&list=UUz_cgRRMbjm8YVl29LDY8mA
Jul 26 2014 1:44PM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,751
Dude.....it's a promotional/marketing tool meant to show all the different elements of what the camp has to offer for POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS. This is not a passion project edit, or a statement on gender politics in skiing. It had shots of mogul skiers, and activities. That edit is as much for parents of kids who would potentially come up with a few grand to send their adhd, aspergers, etc. children there as it is for anyone. Get a grip, it's a commercial.

If you want to talk about how women are treated/portrayed in the "industry", go for it, but don't start with this infomercial. Type women or girl and skier in the search bar and I bet you'll find pretty much every angle of the argument presented in the last decade. Bump one of those, there's good ones. Relatively I mean.
Jul 26 2014 1:59PM
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The_Joker
Posts: 121 - Karma: 380
Better showing of what they do in 2012


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGhk0e45kc&index=34&list=UUz_cgRRMbjm8YVl29LDY8mA
Jul 26 2014 2:00PM
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The_Joker
Posts: 121 - Karma: 380
Better showing of what they do in 2012


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGhk0e45kc&index=34&list=UUz_cgRRMbjm8YVl29LDY8mA
Jul 26 2014 2:00PM
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Breaking_Rad
Posts: 478 - Karma: 1,095
casualDude.....it's a promotional/marketing tool meant to show all the different elements of what the camp has to offer for POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS. This is not a passion project edit, or a statement on gender politics in skiing. It had shots of mogul skiers, and activities. That edit is as much for parents of kids who would potentially come up with a few grand to send their adhd, aspergers, etc. children there as it is for anyone. Get a grip, it's a commercial.

If you want to talk about how women are treated/portrayed in the "industry", go for it, but don't start with this infomercial. Type women or girl and skier in the search bar and I bet you'll find pretty much every angle of the argument presented in the last decade. Bump one of those, there's good ones. Relatively I mean.


This.

Pretty good roundup. Yep, these are definitely meant to raise the stoke level of anybody watching and get them to attend the camp. Big reason they are so pro-heavy w/ serious tricks/solid photography. I think Momentum does a lot better job overall with these edits than COC, Windells, etc.

I think OP thought based on the titling it should have been more girl representative. But as has been pointed out there is a girls-only edit that drops most years. The Session edits are usually drop pretty soon after the sessions. Maybe that will happen with the girls/adult session-specific edits too. The adult one is typically pretty ridiculous.
Jul 26 2014 2:47PM
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The_Joker
Posts: 121 - Karma: 380
Breaking_RadThis.

Pretty good roundup. Yep, these are definitely meant to raise the stoke level of anybody watching and get them to attend the camp. Big reason they are so pro-heavy w/ serious tricks/solid photography. I think Momentum does a lot better job overall with these edits than COC, Windells, etc.

I think OP thought based on the titling it should have been more girl representative. But as has been pointed out there is a girls-only edit that drops most years. The Session edits are usually drop pretty soon after the sessions. Maybe that will happen with the girls/adult session-specific edits too. The adult one is typically pretty ridiculous.


Exactly
Jul 26 2014 4:38PM
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-emile-
Posts: 6613 - Karma: 8,592
girls fucking suck what'd you expect ?
Jul 26 2014 4:52PM
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notspoicey
Posts: 1167 - Karma: 1,706
-emile-girls fucking suck what'd you expect ?


Guys named emilie fucking suck
Jul 26 2014 10:24PM
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.FRY.
Posts: 5620 - Karma: 22,862
ginGuys named emilie fucking suck


ooohhhh burn
Jul 26 2014 10:31PM
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-emile-
Posts: 6613 - Karma: 8,592
ginGuys named emilie fucking suck


hahahha
Jul 26 2014 11:11PM
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Breaking_Rad
Posts: 478 - Karma: 1,095
Is Momentum Week 5 edit out yet?

Saw there was a photog campers compilation here:

http://www.sbcskier.com/news_article?news_id=1899

Thought this one had great shots/great vibe:

http://vimeo.com/100680463

Woodsy edit pretty solid as well:

http://vimeo.com/100768348
Aug 22 2014 2:09AM
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westcoastmissi
Posts: 22 - Karma: 120
The only back handed slap to girls that ski is whenever Emile comments.
Aug 22 2014 8:48AM
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Mingg
Posts: 13992 - Karma: 49,657
westcoastmissiThe only back handed slap to girls that ski is whenever Emile comments.


Agreed.
Aug 22 2014 8:53AM
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00000000
Posts: 11075 - Karma: 82,508
westcoastmissiThe only back handed slap to girls that ski is whenever Emile comments.


Feel free to pm me anytime emile or others are posting waste in threads like these. I'll make sure it gets deleted and the member is banned & warned.
Aug 22 2014 9:25AM
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