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Full rocker, no camber, non tapered tip, pure pow ski that comes in 170ish Length?

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Cyanicenine
Posts: 966 - Karma: 2,294
I'm looking to replace my K2 Hellbents which have been my pow ski for the last 3 years. I feel like I've finally outgrown them and now find them too floppy and too unstable at higher speeds in less than ideal conditions, especially firm chop.

Strongly considering Volkl Shiros since they meet all of my above requirements, but I'm wondering if there are any other skis I should be looking at.

Skiing in the PNW. 5'2 (157cm) 130lbs. Anything taller than 175 feels like work instead of play, 170ish seems to be the magic length for me in pow which unfortunately eliminates a lot of pow ski choices :(
Jun 13 2014 7:56PM
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IDMT_BC024
Posts: 224 - Karma: 129
4FRNT Arethas, they might be skinner than what you're looking for though.
Jun 13 2014 8:02PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7143 - Karma: 17,438
The flat part is the tricky part, the majority of the best pow skis will still utilize camber of some extent underfoot as it just in general creates a more rideable ski when it's out of the deep. I was going to recommend the Jeffery 122 but it only goes down to 181. Maybe hav a look at the Jeffery 114 which goes down to 171 although it does have camber. Is there any reason you really want a flat ski?
Jun 13 2014 8:16PM
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Cyanicenine
Posts: 966 - Karma: 2,294
in general creates a more rideable ski when it's out of the deep. Is there any reason you really want a flat ski?


You nailed the answer in your question. This is going to be my dedicated pow stick, I only want it for the really deep days and all camber does for you in pow is create noticeable drag and hook. I'm in love with the surfy feeling of a full rocker ski in deep pow, and after trying various rocker types I've realized I'm not willing to give up that feeling just for better on piste performance. I would happily keep riding my Hellbents the specs are good they're just too damn floppy.

The Aretha looks like a nice ski but too narrow for my purposes. Nice try though, not a ski I've looked at before.
Jun 13 2014 10:04PM
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elm.
Posts: 1492 - Karma: 13,497
Why a non-tapered tip? Helps so much to initiate turns in pow.
Jun 13 2014 11:04PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7143 - Karma: 17,438
You know quite a bit of the flop comes from the lack of camber. Any flat ski will be prone to feel very soft unless it's a super stif flex, it's the camber that gives the ski it's energy. Have you tried many recent pow skis? The only reason I ask is the reason there are not many truly flat pow skis are they really are not as good generally.

Allrhough if it's what you like go for it but you are missing out on so many good skis by ruling out camber.
Jun 13 2014 11:08PM
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Blake.P
Posts: 9894 - Karma: 3,585
Try and track down a pair of 171 caylors
Jun 13 2014 11:09PM
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elm.
Posts: 1492 - Karma: 13,497





get these kings wood megafats. everyone will think you're a badass
Jun 13 2014 11:20PM
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Cyanicenine
Posts: 966 - Karma: 2,294
smellsWhy a non-tapered tip? Helps so much to initiate turns in pow.


Doesn't suit my skiing style. I like to lean forward a lot and drive from the tips. When I lay a tapered tip ski on its side there effectively is no tip, I don't feel the tip of the ski initiating the turn, instead my turn initiates halfway down the ski, or wherever the taper ends. I don't like it, because it makes me ski more centered, which is not how I naturally like to ski.
Jun 13 2014 11:52PM
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Cyanicenine
Posts: 966 - Karma: 2,294
tomPietrowskiYou know quite a bit of the flop comes from the lack of camber. Any flat ski will be prone to feel very soft unless it's a super stif flex, it's the camber that gives the ski it's energy. Have you tried many recent pow skis? The only reason I ask is the reason there are not many truly flat pow skis are they really are not as good generally.

Allrhough if it's what you like go for it but you are missing out on so many good skis by ruling out camber.


I try to demo as often as I can. I've ridden plenty of recent hybrid camber/rocker skis, they just don't do it for me. I don't feel like the camber adds anything. My favorite pow/all mountain skis demoed in the last year were the Blizzard Cochise and the Volkl Gotama. Both full rocker skis. I ended up buying the Gotama's but they aren't fat enough for the really bottomless days. So I'll probably eventually get some Shiros. Just wanted to know if there were any other skis with that kind of design that also come in a size I can ride.

I agree camber adds liveliness, which is why I will always ride a full camber ski for park. I just don't find it helpful for big mountain.
Jun 14 2014 12:29AM
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IDMT_BC024
Posts: 224 - Karma: 129
CyanicenineMy favorite pow/all mountain skis demoed in the last year were the Blizzard Cochise and the Volkl Gotama. Both full rocker skis. I ended up buying the Gotama's but they aren't fat enough for the really bottomless days. So I'll probably eventually get some Shiros. Just wanted to know if there were any other skis with that kind of design that also come in a size I can ride.

I agree camber adds liveliness, which is why I will always ride a full camber ski for park. I just don't find it helpful for big mountain.


It sounds like you have it dialed, if you're looking for a dedicated pow ski reverse (and really reverse/reverse) is the way to go. Volkl, 4Frnt, Praxis, and Blizzard are the main brands in the reverse camber game. If you liked the Cochise but you want something more playful/ pow oriented but still a true charger and < 175cm the Shiro is the way to go.
Jun 14 2014 1:17AM
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MartianMan
Posts: 1101 - Karma: 2,099
Go with the Shiros. Exceptional ski. Just as comfortable on steep lines as soft playful pow. Float is insane and surprisingly manageable. I spent a day out with them in Jackson on the 173 (they ran out of 183 at TVS), and I was wicked impressed.
Jun 14 2014 2:33AM
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jadavis
Posts: 142 - Karma: 136
CyanicenineDoesn't suit my skiing style. I like to lean forward a lot and drive from the tips. When I lay a tapered tip ski on its side there effectively is no tip, I don't feel the tip of the ski initiating the turn, instead my turn initiates halfway down the ski, or wherever the taper ends. I don't like it, because it makes me ski more centered, which is not how I naturally like to ski.


I think if you rode a tapered ski for a solid season you would appreciate it, you just have to find the right one. Also, I wouldn't be so quick to discredit the Hellbents. They're a super fun pure pow ski and if you're looking for a pure pow ski as you said before why bother with on piste performance? Ski your Gotamas on the semi-deep days and break the Hellbents out for the hero conditions. It seems like you've got a pretty sweet set of skis as it is... I wouldn't change it. Also only OG's ski Hellbents.

Assuming you ski Stevens, the solution for the deep days that everyone thinks get skied out super fast and there's no parking is to get adventurous. A little boot pack and you can have freshies all day, trust me.
Jun 14 2014 3:50AM
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Cyanicenine
Posts: 966 - Karma: 2,294
jadavisI think if you rode a tapered ski for a solid season you would appreciate it, you just have to find the right one. Also, I wouldn't be so quick to discredit the Hellbents. They're a super fun pure pow ski and if you're looking for a pure pow ski as you said before why bother with on piste performance? Ski your Gotamas on the semi-deep days and break the Hellbents out for the hero conditions. It seems like you've got a pretty sweet set of skis as it is... I wouldn't change it. Also only OG's ski Hellbents.

Assuming you ski Stevens, the solution for the deep days that everyone thinks get skied out super fast and there's no parking is to get adventurous. A little boot pack and you can have freshies all day, trust me.


Honestly I'm not in a huge hurry to replace my Hellbent's they've been a great ski for the past few years. They are getting pretty beat up though, I already ripped a heelpiece out of one, and they both have multiple core shots (repaired though). Even if I didn't want something stiffer now I have no idea how much longer they are going to last. K2 isn't making them anymore and the new "Powabunga" won't be made in a sub 180 model. According to the K2 rep I spoke with the 169 hellbent was too much of a niche size.

I want to get an idea NOW of what I should be looking for so I know what to demo next season, or possibly jump on should I see some sort of crazy deal in the summer or fall at the ski swaps.
Jun 14 2014 4:24AM
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MartianMan
Posts: 1101 - Karma: 2,099
Disregard my last comment. The perfect ski for you is the Icelantic Gypsy in a 170 length. 125 underfoot. mid-stiff flex, full rocker, no taper.
Jun 14 2014 10:47AM
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Cyanicenine
Posts: 966 - Karma: 2,294
MartianManDisregard my last comment. The perfect ski for you is the Icelantic Gypsy in a 170 length. 125 underfoot. mid-stiff flex, full rocker, no taper.


Wow, this ski looks sweet. Thanks for pointing it out. Wider than the Shiro too which I like. Wonder why I haven't heard anything about it.
Jun 14 2014 3:52PM
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MartianMan
Posts: 1101 - Karma: 2,099
CyanicenineWow, this ski looks sweet. Thanks for pointing it out. Wider than the Shiro too which I like. Wonder why I haven't heard anything about it.


Icelantic is a small company, but they make a high quality product. Definitely give those a consideration. I guess Faction Candide 4.0's would work for you too, forgot about those as well.
Jun 14 2014 4:29PM
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jadavis
Posts: 142 - Karma: 136
MartianManDisregard my last comment. The perfect ski for you is the Icelantic Gypsy in a 170 length. 125 underfoot. mid-stiff flex, full rocker, no taper.


That's what I was about to say at 2 am last night, but apparently NS decided it wanted to fail and not post the comment haha. Same good ol' Hellbent shape. Icelantic also puts out sick graphics from time to time, not that that should be a buying point. I've never ridden the Gypsy, but I've heard good things (From someone in Vermont of all places).
Jun 14 2014 5:01PM
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elm.
Posts: 1492 - Karma: 13,497
also check out moment deathwish and bibby pro
Jun 14 2014 5:03PM
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IDMT_BC024
Posts: 224 - Karma: 129
smellsalso check out moment deathwish and bibby pro


Good skis but they're not reverse camber. And shit I forgot about icelantic.
Jun 15 2014 3:49AM
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kylemclean
Posts: 413 - Karma: 1,311
Whitedot directors might be alright for you in a 168
Jun 15 2014 1:08PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7143 - Karma: 17,438
kylemcleanWhitedot directors might be alright for you in a 168


They would be a bit narrow. If the redeemer goes down small enough that would meet all your needs and is a super fun ski.
Jun 15 2014 1:43PM
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Cyanicenine
Posts: 966 - Karma: 2,294
I just grabbed some Icelantic Gypsies for $290 from SteepandCheap "hardgoods" sale. Lots of Icelantic and faction skis up for 50%+ off so long as you don't mind older models.

Thanks again for the recommendations, excited to try them out this season.
Aug 14 2014 8:56PM
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Caucasian_Asian
Posts: 2447 - Karma: 1,665
I just saw this thread, and was going to recommend the 175 Faction Royale/CT4.0.

But seeing as you already bought a pair of sticks, have fun!
Aug 15 2014 9:36AM
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Pipe_Munky
Posts: 10888 - Karma: 2,184
Volkl THREE comes in a 176cm...150/135/140
Aug 15 2014 9:49AM
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