Are you liberal or conservative?

Mr.HuckRelevant:

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/05/141987-obamas-labor-secretary-tweets-advice-grads-dont-individual-join-collective/

Your secretary of labor does not want you to be individualistic. He wants you to be a good worker bee. What he is describing is self imposed communism.

There was a time when people in every democratic nation on the planet were terrified of communism. Now it's not so much fear. All you have to do to realize how ridiculous the concept of communism is is to bust out your smart phone. Every one of them and all the apps that make our lives so much easier never could have been created in a communistic society. The reason is that being creative and inventive are not valued qualities in communism.

How much new technology is actually invented in China? Have you seen any exotic super cars come from there or from North Korea? Any really sick gaming consoles come out of those countries? China is OK at reverse engineering technology from other countries, but when it comes to innovation, they can't do it. There's a great episode of topic gear where they test drove knock off cars in China.

What's fascinating is that it isn't that Chinese people aren't creative. Historically, there were times when they created incredible works of art, discovered gun powder, and made incredible engineering advancements. It's not the people, but the system of government that has them lamely reverse engineering everyone else's successes.

I am not afraid of communism; I just think it's funny as hell that people actually want our country to be more like China.

Mr.HuckRelevant:

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/05/141987-obamas-labor-secretary-tweets-advice-grads-dont-individual-join-collective/

Your secretary of labor does not want you to be individualistic. He wants you to be a good worker bee. What he is describing is self imposed communism.

There was a time when people in every democratic nation on the planet were terrified of communism. Now it's not so much fear. All you have to do to realize how ridiculous the concept of communism is is to bust out your smart phone. Every one of them and all the apps that make our lives so much easier never could have been created in a communistic society. The reason is that being creative and inventive are not valued qualities in communism.

How much new technology is actually invented in China? Have you seen any exotic super cars come from there or from North Korea? Any really sick gaming consoles come out of those countries? China is OK at reverse engineering technology from other countries, but when it comes to innovation, they can't do it. There's a great episode of topic gear where they test drove knock off cars in China.

What's fascinating is that it isn't that Chinese people aren't creative. Historically, there were times when they created incredible works of art, discovered gun powder, and made incredible engineering advancements. It's not the people, but the system of government that has them lamely reverse engineering everyone else's successes.

I am not afraid of communism; I just think it's funny as hell that people actually want our country to be more like China.

physicistconservative, but I vote liberal because conservatives have such fucking stupid social policies. Like stupid long prison sentences, opposing gay marriage and stuff like that. To me that is more important than the liberals being stupid with our tax dollars.

BombogenesisHoly fuck I can't even...

physicistwhy?

philwbcIn my country, an engineer starting wage is around 70-80.000$ a year. Do I need that much, for that small amount of work done? I don't think so ^^

.MASSHOLE.Think.

JAHpowThat's not possible for those kinds of people.

AT-ATHow did this turn to a discussion about China?

China is an odd place, it almost isn't real in it's economical being. It's the countries huge population, large income inequality, larger foreign interests, and government "oversight" that makes it such an oddball.

cobra_commanderAnd general willingness to ignore nasty things like patent law and to partake in government endorsed industrial espionage.

Of course most European countries with socialized medicare are not above some extortion and selective hearing with regards to patent law either.

zzzskizzzRelevant to what? I completely agree that innovation is what built this country and china is full of sweatshops and produce goods by slaves. Go to a sweat shop out there and they have nets off the side of the buildings because so many people try to jump off it everyday. And when they leave the country they have to sign something called a shadow contract limiting them to what they can and can't do. We need to make more jobs in America, we need to build growth in the U.S.A and not out source everything. But again what is the point your trying to make, that in 15 years we'll be china?

AT-ATWhy do you look down upon yourself?

philwbcWell I don't consider it to look down on myself. Obviously, I would still like to make money, and even more than the starting wage of course. With that being said, I think that 80.000$ a year, is more than enough to live a good life and to cover expenses.

Making money is not relative as a lot of people think. You have a lot of baseline expenses, after that a lot of it will go to enjoyment, and even though that's still needed and great, I believe that a higher tax rate and thereby helping the society is the way to go.

If you earn 500k $ a year, do you really need that? Well if you paid like 50% in taxes above like 80-100$ or even more I would consider it fair. :)

philwbcWell I don't consider it to look down on myself. Obviously, I would still like to make money, and even more than the starting wage of course. With that being said, I think that 80.000$ a year, is more than enough to live a good life and to cover expenses.

Making money is not relative as a lot of people think. You have a lot of baseline expenses, after that a lot of it will go to enjoyment, and even though that's still needed and great, I believe that a higher tax rate and thereby helping the society is the way to go.

If you earn 500k $ a year, do you really need that? Well if you paid like 50% in taxes above like 80-100$ or even more I would consider it fair. :)

Granite_StateIf you precious sneakers were made by Americans they would be insanely expensive. It's a trade off, you want cheap goods or more American jobs?

Another fun fact, say the Ipad 2 was made in America instead of China and Apple wanted to keep its gross margin of 54%. That would cause the ipad 2 to cost over $400 more.

philwbcWell I don't consider it to look down on myself. Obviously, I would still like to make money, and even more than the starting wage of course. With that being said, I think that 80.000$ a year, is more than enough to live a good life and to cover expenses.

Making money is not relative as a lot of people think. You have a lot of baseline expenses, after that a lot of it will go to enjoyment, and even though that's still needed and great, I believe that a higher tax rate and thereby helping the society is the way to go.

If you earn 500k $ a year, do you really need that? Well if you paid like 50% in taxes above like 80-100$ or even more I would consider it fair. :)

zzzskizzzI'm not talking about shoes, we need to start exporting out to other countries and it could be anything, Corn, fat people, technology. Making clothes and then sending them to other countries isn't going to do anything. You completely missed the point of my post.

Granite_StateAnd you mine. That was what we like to call an example. We export plenty. You say we need to produce more in America, well that means hiring more people, paying them a minimum wage or higher, and so on. This causes the costs of goods to go up. What does America have to offer that the EU or China or Russia doesn't/can't already produce? We have oil. We have one of the largest grain belts in the world. We have pretty damn good tech industry. Yet we still outsource most of our jobs and buy all our goods from other countries.

Granite_StateAnd because you're clearly a little slow, I am actually agreeing with you. I would be willing to pay more for a good if I knew it was made by Americans. We used to export a shit ton, there was an American Standard of Living. The best quality products came out of America. Then WWII ended and the spiral began and now we owe China trillions. Would love to see us back on top but that is a long, hard climb.

MrNiceI'm 15. I think independently. I'm leftist. I'm proud of it.

The referenced post has been removed.

Here is the 2500 page ObamaCare act condensed into four short sentences:

1. In order to insure the uninsured, we first have to un-insure the insured.

2. Next, we require the newly un-insured to be re-insured.

3. To re-insure the newly un-insured, they are required to pay extra charges to be re-insured.

4. The extra charges are required so that the original insured, who became un-insured, and then became re-insured, can pay enough extra so that the original un-insured can be insured free of charge.

cobra_commandersaw this earlier today and thought it was worth others seeing:

cobra_commandersaw this earlier today and thought it was worth others seeing:

The referenced post has been removed.

zzzskizzzIt can't be explained in five sentences, here is a seven minute video that explains why Americans pay so much in healthcare. I'm sure you won't watch it, because you'll have nothing to argue. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSjGouBmo0M someone make it into a video I'm on my phone.

SFBboth parties suck, americas political system sucks.

cobra_commanderUhhhh..... Are you an idiot?

If the government was going to take 50% of what I made, I would be significantly less motivated to work for that money. I would be less willing to dedicate my time and effort towards that job. The employer would then likely not get the same value out of me, and would be unlikely to continue to compensate me at the present rate, and would certainly be against giving me a raise...

This would be true for all the high end industries where people earn over $100. Lawyers, Engineers, Doctors, Nurses, Medical development... etc.

philwbcAnd yes. USA earn a lot of money, socialistic countries do as well. Both can work. Paying more taxes often simply reduces the gap between rich and poor. I see that too much taxes, would be negative, but really, a balance is needed, as long as you know it ain't between life and death.

I'm from a decent of family, but college is free here in Denmark (all of them). You get 1000$ each month for studying (as long as you study hard enough to complete the courses). Could I have gotten into a college in US and paid it, yeah sure.
But a lot of my friends wouldn't have been able to. And after all, don't the country want to have as many educated people as possible to generate wealth? I simply don't feel like any kind of fee to get an education is the right way to go.

physicistconservative, but I vote liberal because conservatives have such fucking stupid social policies. Like stupid long prison sentences, opposing gay marriage and stuff like that. To me that is more important than the liberals being stupid with our tax dollars.

milk_manI'm not satisfied with how this thread ended. We need more discussion.





Sooo bump

cobra_commanderPeople move from Denmark to work in the United States. The other way around? Notsomuch. I wonder why if Denmark has it all figured out. The same is true for most European countries.

There are positive and negative aspects to socialized and privatize healthcare, as well as education and other services. How each country goes about it will be dependent on which aspects the population and social norms. Does not make any system more or less wrong. I know doctors who have worked in several systems around the world and have talked to them about the various issues and cultural differences in the health care systems they have operated in.

All that aside, the much of the rest of the world (to include Denmark) would likely be unable to afford the US to moving to a single payer healthcare system and operating in a similar fashion to that of many European countries. Many Americans would also see a decrease in available treatment options should the US adopt a more socialized system.
There is no such thing as a free lunch.

cobra_commanderI remember watching that video a while ago when some turd posted it to another website thinking it was the bible on American healthcare, and was mystified that anyone would actually listen to those two clowns. Needless to say, they oversimplified it. I really don't feel like wasting away another 8 minutes of my life losing brain cells to the sound of that moron's voice, so I won't watch it again. Regardless, they missed a lot of points IRC. However, this is all regardless, since you missed the point of my post on account of your blind intent to vilify a capitalist system.
The post I quoted mentioned the ACA as a law that restricted the freedom's of American Citizens. The excerpt that I posted, while not a full summary of the ACA itself by any means, did a rather good job of providing simplified, if accurate, representation of how the roll out actually effected millions of Americans over the last several months, showing how it did impact and limit the freedom of Americans.

It was not posted as a endorsement of any health care system.

cobra_commanderPeople move from Denmark to work in the United States. The other way around? Notsomuch. I wonder why if Denmark has it all figured out. The same is true for most European countries.

There are positive and negative aspects to socialized and privatize healthcare, as well as education and other services. How each country goes about it will be dependent on which aspects the population and social norms. Does not make any system more or less wrong. I know doctors who have worked in several systems around the world and have talked to them about the various issues and cultural differences in the health care systems they have operated in.

All that aside, the much of the rest of the world (to include Denmark) would likely be unable to afford the US to moving to a single payer healthcare system and operating in a similar fashion to that of many European countries. Many Americans would also see a decrease in available treatment options should the US adopt a more socialized system.
There is no such thing as a free lunch.

mmccarthy14The problem with legalizing abortion is that people who are too stupid to use a condom during sex would abuse it in its entirety so that doesn't surprise me that only 1% of abortions are rape. And weed will most likely be legalized within the next 5-10 years throughout the United Staes. The government is missing out on a huge money maker! Make fields upon fields of weed owned by the government, then tax the shit out of it. People are gonna buy it. But, i know in colorado that if people still have a hook up and don't feel like wasting their money buying it legally then they just buy it off their regular dealer.