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louie.miragsI've never taken an eco class, but how would it ruin the economy if the money came out of the pockets of the people who own McDonald's? They can make a few million less and still be filthy rich. I'm sure there's tons of people in the McDonald's chain that make way more money than they need. Then, some of these fast food employees can actually pay their way through school and improve their quality of life.
It's so funny to see some kids who don't have to worry about paying for school saying that those employees should just get educated. Some of you went to high schools that cost more than state colleges. Yet you think it's that easy to just go from working at burger king to getting a bachelor's.
.MASSHOLE.Simple terms-Inflation.
The people in charge of these fastfood joints would increase the prices as to keep their profits and the shareholders happy.
.MASSHOLE.Simple terms-Inflation.
The people in charge of these fastfood joints would increase the prices as to keep their profits and the shareholders happy. This would cascade across industries eventually as other companies would raise their wages to attract workers and then subsequently raise their prices as well. In the end, the overall cost of living would be the same just at a higher cost.
Bill.NyeDoesn't work like that. Prices are determined by supply and demand, not working backwards from a predestined profit margin. If they could charge more now, they would while still keeping wages low.
What will happen is that poor people will spend more money because they'll have more money (some of it at McDonald's), and to capitalize on that firms will hire more people. Firms which can't hire more people will only then increase prices to equalize supply and demand, so prices on some items will go up, but the people who got the raises will come out ahead because wage increases come first and foremost out of profits.
.Hugo.What's outrageous is your first sentence
Matt_DNot necessarily at a 15/hr rate, but I do think a higher minimum wage specifically for fast food/super large corporations would be really good.
If McDonalds and Walmart had to pay there employees more they would be forced to raise prices, which would make it easier for small local business to compete, which would be a good thing.
People being paid more (in general) give better service, so especially for fast food places the quality of my experience going in would be enhanced.
Some places where business would diminish too much with higher prices would shut, but one less Burger King would be good for the community its in.
.MASSHOLE.You assuming that they will increase labor rather than prices is assuming they have an elastic price demand which is not always true.
milk_manThis would negatively affect the middle class. The middle class isn't going to get a pay raise just because the minimum wage workers are. And yet they will have to pay more for products. You win some, you lose some. The government and the whole country just need to weigh the cost with the reward
Bill.NyeActually it would hit the rich the hardest. Capital's share of national income is concentrated at the top of the income scale to an absurd degree these days, honestly the group of people we used to call the "middle class" hardly even exists anymore. There are the rich and then everyone else, with hardly anyone in between. The "middle class" would probably be helped because higher wages at the bottom of the scale increases their bargaining power when it comes to their wages/salaries.
milk_manI agree, it would hit the rich the hardest.
I would consider people on the lowest end as the ones that make less than $30k per year, middle class as $30-100k per year, and the rich as everyone making over $100k per year. That's just how I look at it.
milk_manWould it increase bargaining power? I can tell you that teachers would continue getting paid the same, for example. And there are more than just teachers that would continue with their same salaries
.MASSHOLE.If you ask me, society is now divided like this
Lowest- Less than $30k a year
Middle class- $30k-$100k
Lower Upper Class-$100k-900k
Upper Upper Class- $1 million or more
Its truly this 1% of the 1% that control most of the capital in the US.
Bill.NyeExactly. For example, if we raise the minimum wage that will increase aggregate demand in the economy, because wage increases come first and foremost out of profits, which goes disproportionately to the incomes of the wealthiest Americans, who don't spend as much of their income because of the diminishing marginal utility of money, so to meet this demand firms will dip into the extra supply of labour (unemployed).
So, based on the laws of supply and demand, there's a good argument to be made that raising the MW will cut unemployment.
It also lowers the deficit because less people qualify for food stamps etc.
Bill.NyeThe people who will be most helped are the poorest, the people who will be the most hurt are the richest.
louie.miragsThey wouldn't necessarily have to raise prices. There are people who run these companies who make millions and millions. And plenty of people up the chain who make well into the 6 figures. They can sacrifice some of their profits for the little guys in the company.
yes I know that's never going to happen.
bieberhole69.With higher costs the short run aggregate supply curve will shift to the left because the the higher cost of each worker. They won't hire as much because of the diminishing marginal product of labor.
milk_manThe rich are kinda the ones who run the economy though.
cobra_commanderPeople higher up in the chain get paid what they do because they earn it, and bring the value that enables them to demand it.
cobra_commanderThrough HS and college I worked several jobs. I never once got paid minimum wage. Why?
Bill.NyeExcept that we have high unemployment and are in a liquidity trap, so there is A LOT of extra supply of labour and money out there just waiting to be utilized.
Bill.NyeThat's just tuition. People who go to school also have other living expenses (especially if they don't live with their parents), and also generally have less time available for work because they're going to school (which could easily consume 15 hours a week in class plus many more studying).
Bill.NyeIt's funny when people believe in the myths of the corporate state complex.
bieberhole69.And I guarantee to you that by raising the minimum wage to $15/hr more people will be laid off and there will be an even bigger supply of underutilized labor.
cobra_commanderThen why do I make what I make?
Bill.NyeI have no idea what you do or what you make, but the simple fact that you post on this website basically guarantees that you've benefitted from a lot of privilege in your life.
Thizzle.Fucking ridiculous. I'm in Seattle too and have been seeing it on the news non stop.
Correct me if I'm wrong because I know next to nothing about economics and maybe i'll come off as stupid but this makes sense to me. I think the people who work jobs that require no education or skill (i.e. McDonalds employees etc..) should spend their fucking time getting an education or skill set to put them in a position to do a job that is worth paying someone $15 an hour for. There are people with fairly advanced skill sets that took a while to learn, and/or some tech schooling etc.. who make around 15/hr and I would be livid if I was one of those people and I saw a bunch of burger flippers striking because they think what they do is equally as valuable as what I do. Bummer you can't feed your family off of $9 an hour? Get a budget and an education and go get yourself some more money. Tired of this sense of entitlement people have developed in America.
Bill.NyeYeah, that's kind of the problem we're trying to solve.
cobra_commanderWhich has nothing to do with how much value I bring to an employer...
The problem with most 'liberals' is that they see rich and poor people and think the issue is with how much money the rich people have. As apposed to how little money the poor people have.
DockEllisI know it's just for tuition. But there are plenty of incentives for people in the lower earning categories to go back to school.
Bill.NyeIt's cute that you actually believe that your privileged upbringing and social circles haven't given you any leg up in life over anyone else. Studies have repeatedly shown that people who are playing an obviously rigged game rarely see the rigging when it's rigged in their favor. They internalize the values that glorify themselves, especially if an entire society also has internalized those values. Everyone does this.
I'm not a liberal, I'm an anarchist. Liberals are spineless, witless losers who shy away from fights they aren't sure they can win.
Bill.NyeI'm assuming that they will increase hiring before prices because that is what would be most profitable. Remember, if they COULD increase prices now, they would do so anyway, regardless of what wages are being paid. If demand starts to go up because of a MW increase (which hopefully it does) then McD's could either raise prices or hire more people, but with a large pool of unemployed it will be more profitable for them to hire people (or possibly use new technology to increase the efficiency of their business model, which would also be good).
Bill.NyeBecause you're an upper middle class white male?
Bill.NyeNEWSFLASH: Most people don't drop out of/not go to school because of lack of incentive, they do so because of lack of opportunity/money.
Bill.NyeIt's cute that you actually believe that your privileged upbringing and social circles haven't given you any leg up in life over anyone else. Studies have repeatedly shown that people who are playing an obviously rigged game rarely see the rigging when it's rigged in their favor. They internalize the values that glorify themselves, especially if an entire society also has internalized those values. Everyone does this.
DockEllisDid you even read my post? Financial aid allows people to go to school for 0 up front cost. 0! Sure you still have to work to support yourself, but 40 hours of work and 15 in school is well worth the step up you'll get from having a college degree. Again, it's not easy, but it's well worth the effort.
louie.miragsDefinitely not easy. Especially for a 4 year degree. A two technical degree would be the better route. The worst part is no guarantee that the degree will even better your quality of life.
Granite_StateThe fast food industry requires almost no skill and no one should get paid $15 to man a register or put a sandwich together. The only aspect to that job the requires any skill is managing and I think they make around that anyways.
Also like everyone seems to be saying, raising the minimum will only increase poverty because businesses won't be able to afford to hire as many employees. IDK I just heard a group project on this like 2 days ago, it makes sense even though I don't agree with it mainly because how can minimum wage stay the same without adjusting to inflation?
louie.miragsThat point doesn't get brought up enough that minimum wage hasn't been keeping up with inflation.
louie.miragsThat point doesn't get brought up enough that minimum wage hasn't been keeping up with inflation.
Granite_StateI don't know if you are being sarcastic or not mainly because there is no way I'm reading through the thousands of lines of text you guys have written.
If you are, sick. If you aren't, then thank you for seeing a pretty obvious flaw in our employment system. I asked the group the presented that question and never got a clear answer, they kinda of danced around it.
cobra_commanderI also won on the genetic lottery, and am pretty fucking smart for it.
At the end of the day however, I am paid for what I bring to the table; regardless of what environment I grew up in.
An anarchist arguing for a minimum wage. That is fucking rich.
cool_nameyou know mcdonalds is almost certainly an inferior good, meaning that when incomes go up demand for their goods goes down right?
cool_nameWas it luck that caused you find that bill, yes. is it luck if your parents decide that they would rather help pay for your education then spend that money on themselves, yes. is it luck that someone is born smarter and harder working than someone else, yes. Do any of those situations of you being lucky making it right for someone to forcefully take your money, absolutely not.
