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Why isn't there a shop that flex tests skis for us

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msg
Posts: 1108 - Karma: 3,269
I feel like it'd be beneficial, just to give a general idea of how they compare.
May 10 2014 8:47PM
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DIPED_IN_SAUCE
Posts: 858 - Karma: 2,256
Because they couldn't make money doing it? What is this, communism?
May 10 2014 9:17PM
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msg
Posts: 1108 - Karma: 3,269
DIPED_IN_SAUCEBecause they couldn't make money doing it? What is this, communism?


(mostly) free advertising leads to more sales
May 10 2014 10:00PM
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-wakes-
Posts: 358 - Karma: 201
ayylmao(mostly) free advertising leads to more sales


are you talking about a shop testing the flex that most ski companies already list in their websites? And flex isn't the only thing that makes skis different from each other.
May 11 2014 12:10AM
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tomPietrowski
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Hand flexing a ski only tells you so much you still need to ski a ski to find out how it really works. that is why shop staff demo skis so we can talk to you a out how a skis skis not just hand flex a ski infront of you.
May 11 2014 5:16AM
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msg
Posts: 1108 - Karma: 3,269
-wakes-are you talking about a shop testing the flex that most ski companies already list in their websites? And flex isn't the only thing that makes skis different from each other.


I am, and that's true. I'm not saying to gauge how a ski rides based solely on flex.

tomPietrowskiHand flexing a ski only tells you so much you still need to ski a ski to find out how it really works. that is why shop staff demo skis so we can talk to you a out how a skis skis not just hand flex a ski infront of you.


Again, i'm not saying to do this to see how actually goes.

It would be nice to compare the flex across the board, say with the skis you currently own versus any other pair.
May 11 2014 6:29AM
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tomPietrowski
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ayylmaoI am, and that's true. I'm not saying to gauge how a ski rides based solely on flex.



Again, i'm not saying to do this to see how actually goes.

It would be nice to compare the flex across the board, say with the skis you currently own versus any other pair.


but point is just handing flexing the longitudinal flex of a ski will tell you very little. Its really the torisonal flex of a ski which dictates how it will ride and this is not really somthing you can test hand flexing.

Hand flexing gives a rough idea of tip and tail flex and somewhat how stiff a ski is underfoot
May 11 2014 7:20AM
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msg
Posts: 1108 - Karma: 3,269
tomPietrowskiHand flexing gives a rough idea of tip and tail flex and somewhat how stiff a ski is underfoot


This is the information I'd want out of a flex test video
May 11 2014 8:32AM
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tomPietrowski
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ayylmaoThis is the information I'd want out of a flex test video


But it would be really hard to get any from a video. You need to feel how it flexs and at what point it stiffens ect. Just watching a video of some dude flexing a ski would tell you nothing.
May 11 2014 9:02AM
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msg
Posts: 1108 - Karma: 3,269
tomPietrowskiBut it would be really hard to get any from a video. You need to feel how it flexs and at what point it stiffens ect. Just watching a video of some dude flexing a ski would tell you nothing.


On its own it wouldn't, but by comparing pairs you'd be able to tell where they sit.

Plus setting up some sort of testing rig (say along cinderblocks) would help.
May 11 2014 9:05AM
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tomPietrowski
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ayylmaoOn its own it wouldn't, but by comparing pairs you'd be able to tell where they sit.

Plus setting up some sort of testing rig (say along cinderblocks) would help.


I get what you are saying but it just does not work. Take skis with rocker for example. The ski may well be stiffer but it would ski possibly softer then a softer ski without rocker.

Also the flex can change from size to size. So I do get where you are coming from but its just not practical. Demoing skis is still the best way to really find out what your getting. So if anything maybe we could work towards getting more demos during the season, so people could try out as many skis as possible.
May 11 2014 10:15AM
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Twig
Posts: 6406 - Karma: 60,009
Actually someone did this years back and it was useful (or at least interesting. I want to say it was 07-08, they tested the 'freeski' offerings from the big brands, and plotted the results on some kind layered pdf graph so you could select the skis your wanted. I might even be able to track it down, I'll look.
May 11 2014 12:32PM
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Twig
Posts: 6406 - Karma: 60,009
TwigI might even be able to track it down, I'll look.


http://www.rasc.ru/gear/pdf/SFI_2008.pdf
May 11 2014 12:34PM
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a_pla5tic_bag
Posts: 9215 - Karma: 5,398
tomPietrowskiDemoing skis is still the best way to really find out what your getting.

I'm sure nobody disagrees with that.

Someone should
>make a standard 'center' on skis, like true center, recommended mount, or something
>clamp skis onto a stand with narrow clamp upside down so the base is facing up
>apply a particular amount of force to a determined point on the tip and tail relative to the center
>measure change in position of that point
>do math and make graphs.

then you could say ski x bends more under the same force versus ski y.

inb4 it might not actually relate to how the ski feels. I like data.

You could setup something for torsional flex too i'm sure.
May 11 2014 1:58PM
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tomPietrowski
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a_pla5tic_bagI'm sure nobody disagrees with that.

Someone should
>make a standard 'center' on skis, like true center, recommended mount, or something
>clamp skis onto a stand with narrow clamp upside down so the base is facing up
>apply a particular amount of force to a determined point on the tip and tail relative to the center
>measure change in position of that point
>do math and make graphs.

then you could say ski x bends more under the same force versus ski y.

inb4 it might not actually relate to how the ski feels. I like data.

You could setup something for torsional flex too i'm sure.

Again a nice idea but all it woul tell you is how that section of ski flexes. Move the weight a few cm and the ski may flex more. How about skis with early rise how do you determin the point to weight the ski.

If there was a universal way to test skis like this a shop would have come up with it all ready.
May 12 2014 3:25AM
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BskiP
Posts: 1369 - Karma: 223
Fri Flyt in Norway does this every year, just can be tough to find/translate because it is in norwegian.
May 13 2014 3:52PM
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NinetyFour
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tomPietrowskiAgain a nice idea but all it woul tell you is how that section of ski flexes. Move the weight a few cm and the ski may flex more. How about skis with early rise how do you determin the point to weight the ski.

If there was a universal way to test skis like this a shop would have come up with it all ready.


@1:47

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/853326/Line-Skis-R--amp--D-Secret-Lair-Tour---Ski-Development--amp--Testing---YouTube
May 13 2014 4:24PM
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a_pla5tic_bag
Posts: 9215 - Karma: 5,398
NinetyFour@1:47

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/853326/Line-Skis-R--amp--D-Secret-Lair-Tour---Ski-Development--amp--Testing---YouTube


exactly. I figured there were machines out there that could measure that, there's no way people are making skis without using numbers to represent all the stuff. It would be quite the task to measure loads of ski though. That's more or less what i was imagining.
May 13 2014 4:35PM
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.nasty
Posts: 10581 - Karma: 11,150
flexing the ski for a customer right in front of them is one thing, but flexing them and comparing them all by flex only would just be a waste of time. All of the companies have their own flex rating that most people seem fine with. lol
May 13 2014 4:46PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6656 - Karma: 10,861
tomPietrowskiI get what you are saying but it just does not work. Take skis with rocker for example. The ski may well be stiffer but it would ski possibly softer then a softer ski without rocker.

Also the flex can change from size to size. So I do get where you are coming from but its just not practical. Demoing skis is still the best way to really find out what your getting. So if anything maybe we could work towards getting more demos during the season, so people could try out as many skis as possible.


This, coupled with the fact that what will be stiff for one customer is soft for another. "Stiffness" is for sure rather subjective thing, that if misinterpreted can for sure turn someone away from the right ski for them.

All major manufacturers (and some small I imagine) have a flex testing machine to make sure their skis get made in a consistent matter. But these machines only tell you how much force it takes to flex the ski a certain distance at one point. Even with said number you still have to interpret it as soft, medium, stiff and that will for sure change with individual preference and experience.
May 14 2014 2:40AM
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TheGreenBastard
Posts: 215 - Karma: 135
you definetly are cut out to work ski retail, but really i dont know why ski shops don't use the density knock test? if you dont knock on the top sheet of a ski and listen to the sound it makes how in the actual fuck can you know anything about that ski?
May 14 2014 8:07PM
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MartianMan
Posts: 1101 - Karma: 2,099
onenerdykidBut these machines only tell you how much force it takes to flex the ski a certain distance at one point. Even with said number you still have to interpret it as soft, medium, stiff and that will for sure change with individual preference and experience.


But could we have those numbers, whether they are in psi or whatever the hell, shown to consumers as a flex number to go along with the other specs? This way we wouldn't have to rely on others opinions on what is stiff and soft, intend we could form our own and relate it to the numbers.
May 14 2014 8:23PM
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