Abortion

the_trapI probably shouldn't even get started on this..


Every life is valuable, no matter how small and undeveloped.

louie.miragsNo matter how shitty their life will be, no matter how immature their parents are, no matter how loveless the parents relationship is.

Wallisch_plIgnore the 12 year old. You'll learn how retarded you sound soon enough

Implying we are supposed to know if their life will be shitty...

Wallisch_plSurprisingly I was basically converted to pro-life by 4chan

I don't know if it was trolling or not but the point that was made was so true and I've just been ignorant before.

There are ways to prevent even getting pregnant, but the best is to keep your legs shut. There is no just reason to get an abortion. Teens? Put it up for adoption. Poor? Put it up for adoption. It's sort of hard to say, but, even if the woman is raped, that baby deserves a chance at life no matter what the father's action's were.

You want to destroy life, the most precious thing in this world, just because you couldn't keep your legs shut? I dare anyone to give me a valid reason for abortion

louie.miragsNo matter how shitty their life will be, no matter how immature their parents are, no matter how loveless the parents relationship is.

SARTRONmen have the capable means or understand to judge and rule on this topic.

Phil-X-Thats not sexist or anything....

SARTRONoh im sorry, when you get pregnant and want an abortion lemme know. or even better, how about i mandate how much you can masturbate, youd be super happy then!

cobra_commanderAny women who lacks the intellectual capacity to understand how the opions of men are relevant to the abortion discussion could be presented as evidence for the repeal of the 19th Amendment.

Getting an abortion should require the consent of both parties. Getting pregnant requires two people, both have the right to be emotionally invested in the child. Obviously a raper would have forfeited that right. Any party that gets an abortion without the other's consent should be tried for murder.

Regarding the legalities of it, I am obviously of the opinion that it should remain legal, I do however think there are too many abortions in the United States. This stems from a shift in cultural opinions that view teen sex as being consequence free. Play adult games, win adult prizes.

As our country moves closer to a single payer healthcare system, the ethics of who pays for the abortion will need to be addressed. So long as a sizable set of the population views abortion on a similar platform as murder, I am fully against using any public funds to support abortions.* if you are on Medicare, Medicaid, or a subsidized health plan, fork out your own money. The voting block did not endorse your recriational sex, don't expect them to pick up the responsibility.

If girls have a problem with this, they are welcome to get a dildo, and otherwise keep their legs closed. If you still have a problem with respecting the opinion of men with how this country treats life, welcome to the fucking republic. Your vote is no more important than mine.


*except in the case of rape.

Phil-X-It takes a male and female to have a child... masturbation is something that is performed by an individual with no effect on anyone else. I never said anything about supporting or not supporting abortions, but to say men dont have a say in the manner is messed up

SARTRONFirst of all, its not all about keeping your legs shut. Secondly, you dont have the right to call a rapist a father, his actions were driven by selfish wants such as power, control, domination or just mere sex. by calling a rapist a father you are putting the blame on the woman for now she is, by necessity set by you, a mother and forever tied to her horrible event. how terrifying is it to be a college student, high school student, mother of three beautiful children, to be raped, and now pregnant. Youre saying that shes bound to keep the child of the man who haunts her dreams, never could she escape her tormentor and the night her life changed. and guess what, that didnt happen because she opened her legs but because men dont know how to behave. sorry but ive been there and its never an easy situation.

thirdly, what if the person is terminally ill or is sick, has any sort of complications and understands that the child will not live a blessed life. a lot of it is situational but none of that is about closing your legs. unfortunately birth control fail, condoms fail, and sometimes youve gotta sacrifice a bit for the good of an overall outcome.

i just dont agree that men have the capable means or understand to judge and rule on this topic.

Wallisch_plIt is about keeping your legs shut, unless rape, like I said. Well most of the times rape is just a girl getting drunk, saying yes and crying rape because women can't take actions for what they do when they're drunk. It's not like men literally have the instinct to have sex with women too. You're saying that if a women is raped, just because that fetus was brought by the rapist it's the fetus' fault and it shouldn't live.

If a person is terminally ill they're most likely in the hospital until death, what, do you think they just have sex with other patients? even on the off chance it happens, she can keep the baby until she dies or birth it.

You say it's situational and not closing your legs, but in the end all it comes down to really is closing your legs. Another thing about rape, feminists believe that like fucking society needs to teach them that women can dress how they want so they don't get raped. It's not society, it's human instinct. The other rapes which I don't hear about as often is where men will just kidnap women and rape them which really you can't do anything about it,...in that case I guess abortion could be chyll

Wallisch_plIt is about keeping your legs shut, unless rape, like I said. Well most of the times rape is just a girl getting drunk, saying yes and crying rape because women can't take actions for what they do when they're drunk. It's not like men literally have the instinct to have sex with women too. You're saying that if a women is raped, just because that fetus was brought by the rapist it's the fetus' fault and it shouldn't live.

If a person is terminally ill they're most likely in the hospital until death, what, do you think they just have sex with other patients? even on the off chance it happens, she can keep the baby until she dies or birth it.

You say it's situational and not closing your legs, but in the end all it comes down to really is closing your legs. Another thing about rape, feminists believe that like fucking society needs to teach them that women can dress how they want so they don't get raped. It's not society, it's human instinct. The other rapes which I don't hear about as often is where men will just kidnap women and rape them which really you can't do anything about it,...in that case I guess abortion could be chyll

the_trapI bet that if that baby actually had the decision whether to live or die, they would choose life.

SARTRONno the whole first part what you said is wrong, its so fucking wrong. a woman is to blame for her drunk actions? so a man is just along for the ride, completely innocent? Rape is NOT a girl getting drunk. rape is a person, male or female, walking home from the library and getting jumped by a creep or asking a good, trusting friend to take them home because they are intoxicated and coming to in their friends bed naked, clothes ripped off and your friend finishing up. fuck you and your understand of rape. this is rape culture and its wrong. by telling women that they are asking for it with their dress style or god forbid drinking and enjoying their time like everyone else, that they are at fault for what happened and the consequences to come. i hope some day you will feel the horrible wrath of rape and the possible outcome of a baby because you are so shielded with misogynistic ideals that you cant see in front of your own nose.

also, human instinct is controllable you fucking twat. no one heard about my rape because it was private and personal and fucked me up for so many years to come. I could barely go to class or the bars because i convinced myself that what happened was my fault. but it was through support and reading ignorant posts about rape and abortion,such as you displayed, that i realized i wasnt at fault and that my rapist though it appropriate to take it upon himself to undress me while i mistakenly considered myself to be asleep in a safe place.

so yes, this IS society and NOT natural instinct. if you blame this on instinct than why dont we just say murder and child abuse are ok because it was their instinct to endorse such acts. maybe its a womans natural instinct to get rid of the unwanted baby shes carrying. the claim to natural instinct throws all responsibility out the window.

louie.miragsIt's not even worth debating against a post this ignorant. Sex is a natural act that people are not going to stop doing. It's an instinct that all animals have to breed. We have an instinct to populate the earth. Your hateful words arent going to change whats in our DNA. Just because you have a problem getting laid, doesn't mean all women are sluts who can't keep their legs shut. The fact you keep bringing up random scenarios about rape, it's not even worth arguing with you.

The amount of times you say "keep your legs shut" is just sad. You have some serious women issues. Eventually you'll grow up and hopefully become a man women want to date. Or they'll probably be targets of your anger since some girl probably embarassed you at the middle school dance or something. So, stop with the passive aggressive slut bashing and made up scenarios and realize how dumb you sound.

HAHA i need to add that you say human instinct can be controlled...okay then women shouldn't feel the need to have sex/get an abortion (because abortion is now an instinct)

It's not fucking human instinct to kill your off spring, do you think we're fucking roosters???

tusken_assraiderits a good thing they don't have that kind of brain function then at the developmental stage when most countries allow abortion

ZimmermanOkay, here goes.

First of all, using the terms "pro-life" and "Pro-choice" is a mistake.
"Pro-life" assumes the opposition is pro-death or anti life.
"Pro-choice" assumes the other side is just anti choice, and we don't like that here in America.

I'll start by saying that I don't believe a fetus is a person any more than an acorn is an oak tree, but for the argument's sake, I will disregard this.

To clarify what I mean when I say "person," I mean any being with a human DNA sequence that has a right to life. This leads to two questions: 1. Does a fetus have a right to life? 2. When do humans get their right to life?
A "potential person" is just that, not a person yet. Okay to kill.

Therefore saying "life begins at conception" means nothing. Cows lives begin at conception too and it's okay to kill them. What this argument depends on entirely is the right to life.

If the fetus does not have a right to life, it is okay to perform an abortion.

If it does(or will at some point; where we draw the line is pretty much arbitrary) have a right to life, then abortion would equate to murder.

However, that is not the end of the discussion. The fetus's rights do have to be weighed against the mother's.

A right to life is not the right not to be killed, or the right to everything needed to keep you alive. You should all honestly just read Judith Thomson's essay on the topic. It is not perfect, but she makes a lot of good points that actually make sense.

http://spot.colorado.edu/~heathwoo/Phil160,Fall02/thomson.htm
Note that she is trying to say that in leaving her house, a woman takes a tiny risk, and if she gets raped, she may have played a causal role in the outcome, but that does not mean she has moral responsibility for the outcome. She extends this to using birth control, and says that using birth control lowers the chance of pregnancy enough where lowing it further would require making too great a sacrifice (i.e. no sex). Thus abortion is okay in the case of rape and when people take reasonable precautions to prevent a conception.

To the girl who said it was funny to hear men argue about abortion, you are attacking the people arguing instead of their actual arguments, which don't have a sex. Genetic ad hominem.

To anyone saying women have the right to do what they want with their own body, nobody actually has this right. I don't have the right to punch you, and if the fetus has a right to life,killing it would not be justified.

To the whole "how can you be against abortion and for the death penalty and vice versa" crowd: These are two different cases.For example, it would not be inconsistent to be against abortion because I believe a fetus has a right to life but for the death penalty because I believe the condemned have forfeited theirs. It would also be consistent to be okay with abortion because you don't think the fetus has a right to life, but against the death penalty because you think the condemned still has theirs.

To the "prevent back alley abortions" crowd, if the fetus has the right to life, it would not be okay to kill it to save a woman from this hardship. Plus, fewer back alley abortions occur than fetuses with right to life would be killed in order to prevent them.

To the "serves the population problem" crowd: Sure, it would be great to slow population growth, but if the fetuses have a right to life, killing them to serve overpopulation would be absurd.

I think I addressed at least some of what has been said. Keep in mind everything I said at the top. Especially the acorn part.

milk_manKilling is killing. It doesn't matter how undeveloped the baby is, it's still a human life.

ZimmermanIt isn't as simple as this. If it wasn't okay to kill living things, I'm sure we would all be good friends with the member chicken.

The question lies on the right to life. No one is arguing that life does not begin at conception. That is scientific fact. When a human gets its right to life is what matters, and saying that it happens at conception is just as arbitrary as any other point of development.

Wallisch_plThere is no just reason to get an abortion. Teens? Put it up for adoption. Poor? Put it up for adoption.

louie.miragshttp://www.upworthy.com/heres-a-story-about-what-foster-care-is-like-for-an-abused-child-removed-from-her-home-2?c=ufb2

tusken_assraiderThe US is weird, why is it that everyone has such extreme views on everything? You seem to simply the abortion debate by choosing to be either pro life or pro choice when the reality is that it's far more complicated than that and a balance needs to be struck between the two. It's the same with your politics you either follow republicans or democrats and all their policies rather than agreeing with different aspects of each. At least that is the way it seems to me.

saskskierThis is a phenomenal video that definitely represents that trauma that comes along with being removed from an abusive home and placed the system.

I've been a social worker for a couple of years now and work with these kids, their biological families and the foster homes they are placed in. The kids that come into their homes often have huge challenges. Trust issues, trauma issues coming from neglect, emotional/physical/sexual abuse, medical issues, mental health issues (fetal alcohol spectrum disorder is one of the most common), extreme behaviour issues (criminal, sexualized, violent, etc), and the list goes on.

There is extensive training that is mandatory for all foster parents, but few are truly prepared for some of the kids who come into their homes. It's a steep learning curve, even for those who have raised kids of their own. Despite those challenges, all of the foster homes I've worked with have been absolutely amazing.

Yes, there are bad foster parents, but they are few and far between. It's like any profession though. The worst always make the most noise. You always hear about the bad, but rarely about the good.

louie.miragswoah man.. not everyone. There are so many different types of people in America (and other countries as well). To say everyone is like that is wrong.

tusken_assraiderYeh i wasn't trying to say that it's just I know very few people personally who are so one sided on topics like this, or like gun law etc. as some of the people on ns haha I guess it's probably because of its a pretty young demographic but still they're probably regurgitating there parents views on matters

tusken_assraiderYeh i wasn't trying to say that it's just I know very few people personally who are so one sided on topics like this, or like gun law etc. as some of the people on ns haha I guess it's probably because of its a pretty young demographic but still they're probably regurgitating there parents views on matters

milk_manRight, life begins at conception. There is a HUMAN alive at conception. Therefore abortion is killing an alive human being. And just the fact that the state says that it's ok doesn't make it ok.

ZimmermanSo you're saying that in all cases it is always not okay to kill a human being? What if you are being threatened? What if the person has given up their right to life (if you think certain criminals do this)? So obviously not all humans have a right to life. Would it be that crazy to say a fetus doesn't either? Especially since the fetus is using another human's body in order to live?

Wallisch_plIgnore the 12 year old. You'll learn how retarded you sound soon enough

Implying we are supposed to know if their life will be shitty...

Mr.MittenI heard an interesting argument against abortion the other day, it was that if you kill a pregnant women let's say in a car accident it's considered double homicide or whatever the correct term is. So why wouldn't it be considered homicide to have an anortion... I don't know it got me thinkin

ScaredwhiteboyI hate when people try to act like this is an issue of women's rights. It's not at all. I don't care how far along the baby is, murder is murder. If you can kill your baby before it's born, why not let people kill their babies after birth too?

Paedophile-PopeExactly. Until the baby is grown up enough to make its own decisions, termination should be legal.

gengar.i haven't read a single thing in this thread.

but i know 90% of you 15 year old boys saying abortion is wrong just because thats how your parents feel will change your minds once your girlfriend and/or drunken hookup comes to you saying she's pregnant.

gengar.i haven't read a single thing in this thread.

but i know 90% of you 15 year old boys saying abortion is wrong just because thats how your parents feel will change your minds once your girlfriend and/or drunken hookup comes to you saying she's pregnant.

connecticuntAbortion is one of those things that should be left to women in my humble opinion.

connecticuntHe owes over $60k in child support for him and his brothers and nothing is happening.

cobra_commanderIf he didn't stick around for the first one, why did she keep running over to him for sex?