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Heli-Skiing and sledding are horrible for the environment

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please
Posts: 96 - Karma: 600
I was just thinking about skiing and the impact it has on the environment and I couldn't help thinking that Heli-Skiing and Sledding are terrible for the environment.

For both you are going into the wilderness potential disturbing the wildlife. For both you are using a humongous amount of fuel to get skiers up to the top of their lines.

Compared to ski-resorts where the impact is concentrated in one area, the efficiency of ski-lifts have to be much more efficient than heli-skiing and sledding. But you do have the factor of resort lodging, trash produced and the number of cars to bring people to the hill but that is simply because of the sheer volume. On a per-skier basis it is much worse to go backcountry skiing using a helicopter or a sled than it is to use a resort.

Obviously, skinning does not fall into this category and has the lowest impact out of all the others.

tldr: If you want to save the environment don't go heli skiing or use a sled to go backcountry skiing.
Mar 20 2014 3:24PM
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Toaster-Tony
Posts: 3531 - Karma: 5,850
Is this a quote from someone?

If not, damn, that was nicely said.
Mar 21 2014 2:10PM
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Vinci
Posts: 701 - Karma: 1,472
In my experience park skiers hardly appreciate anything beside well groomed inruns and perfectly shaped jumps. I can't even tell how many empty red bulls, plastic bottles and wrappings I've picked up and thrown away this season...

Too bad I never catch anyone actually throwing that stuff on the ground, because I'd take that red bull and shove it up their ass sideways.


But hell ya, everyone should try skinning at least once. The hard work you put into getting to your line makes the way down much more satisfying. Plus the time you spend with your buddies alone in the middle of fucking nowhere can be an eye opener for how beautiful our world is.... and yeah, I don't give a shit about how hippy that just sounded.
Mar 21 2014 2:21PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
yeah i mean, dont get me wrong, ive met plenty of douchebag park skiers but in real life i feel like the vast majority of skiers etc i hang with are definitely more tuned into nature etc than the average person.

but hell yeah to what you said about skinning and getting out there. and anyone who calls you a "hippy" as an insult for that is an idiot living in a delusional bubble
Mar 21 2014 2:26PM
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johnblaze
Posts: 1477 - Karma: 2,598
You lost me at disturbing wildlife
Mar 21 2014 2:41PM
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Dr.Dickless
Posts: 2620 - Karma: 1,392
I guess not everyone has sat down with themselves and settled this yet. The best thing you can do for the environment as a human is to commit suicide
Mar 21 2014 3:41PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
Why would we read what you are saying if you are just talking out of your ass?

I know of a number of cat ski operations that use bio diesel for their cats. They are also for the most part, using existing logging roads where they can to get around their tenure.

I can't see how you can claim that cat skiing, heli skiing, and sled skiing is CLEARLY worse than going to a ski resort based on absolutely no knowledge or fact.






Also - Why are people in this thread talking about people driving to the hill as if people don't drive to where they are heli skiing. People drive and fly places, it's irrelevant to the point.
Mar 21 2014 5:23PM
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snowpocalypse
Posts: 1036 - Karma: 3,525
Its the numbers. In the 12/13 ski season there were 51 million skier visits in the US. All of which drove flew or hitch hiked to the mountain. That is a lot of cars heading into the mountain. On average people travel 2.5 hours to get to the mountain. Lets say for the sake of it every car had 2 people in it. 51 mill / 2 * 5 hours round trip. That's 127,500,000 hours traveled in cars to get to the ski hill. On the flip side there are 17 Heli operations in the states. Each have a 3 month fly season on average. The largest heli in operation can hold 12 guests. 12 guests X 90 days (not counting weather days) that's 1080 per season per chopper. Now the largest operation has 6 choppers in the air per day. If all are that size 1080 x 6x 17 operations = 110160 people heli skiing per season. To get the same travel per person the Average heli ski guest would have to travel 11,574.07 to go skiing. Even if you were traveling from Miami to Haines AK you are only going 49,531.08 miles. I lost me train of thought. My point is more people go to the Resort than heli....... Shit that made my head hurt.
Mar 21 2014 5:55PM
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SFB
Posts: 8895 - Karma: 26,352

Click for larger image
Mar 21 2014 6:01PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
but it's an irrelevant to the point. A person travelling is a person travelling. It has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Mar 21 2014 6:44PM
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aputnam
Posts: 80 - Karma: 41
you're an idiot OP and a dirty hippy. i can tell i don't like you
Mar 21 2014 8:25PM
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drstuess
Posts: 18 - Karma: 33
Obviously in aggregate heliskiing does not have the environmental impact that resort skiing does, but it is fairly apparent that on a per skier basis it does significantly more harm. First, because of the scale of the operations (efficiency increases with scale), and secondly because air travel is almost always comparatively much less efficient as a result of the need to generate lift to overcome gravity. Any comparison to other non skiing activities (like driving/oil companies/etc) is stupid in this setting as well. I think this is more about awareness of the issues and the impact that our activities have than just saying "NEVER HELI-SKI" or something; I would be lying if I said I would pass up the chance to get in a heli. Awareness of the impacts our actions have on our surroundings is pretty crucial to being an intelligent person and for us to progress/not mess stuff up.
One interesting argument is that while participants in activities like skiing/hunting/fishing harm the environment, the people who participate interact and depend on the environment and thus are much more invested. They happen to do the most conservation and end up being net beneficial. One example is Ducks Unlimited which does so much conservation of wetlands etc. Additionally,however slightly different, surfers do beach cleanups all the time. I believe that this is true in many cases, however, based on a lot of the responses in this thread, this demographic of skiers general seems to not care.
Mar 21 2014 9:28PM
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Bergman
Posts: 7 - Karma: 19
I get what you're saying about the whole per person thing, but let's consider this for a second:
I live in a shitty house made 50 years ago that has shit heat retention. I drive a gas car every day to work/skiing/school. I might go on a sled trip or cat trip once a year.
So what should I do here? In the realms of possibilities, yes I could stop doing the one thing I love the most and make a dick shit difference. Or, I could be greener every other day of the fucking year. I could spend money fixing my house or building a new one that is efficient to heat and produces electricity (Solar, Wind, Biomass). I could buy an electric vehicle, or find greener transit (Biking when possible). Not only will these things reduce my impact, but they will last into the future. When I move out, someone else will buy an environmentally efficient house.
But here are the problems. Green transit doesn't really work out as well as we think. Electric cars are actually quite hazardous to dispose of. Biofuel? Not widely available. Not to mention all these things are expensive.
tl:dr reduce your environmental impact elseware, don't quit doing the things you love, you will regret it

Also, I think someones (KTM?) developing a direct injection 2 stroke engine that runs cleaner than 4 strokes, so if you could get one of those in a sled it'd be mighty clean.
Mar 22 2014 12:50AM
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davesmatf
Posts: 86 - Karma: 183
A little late to respond i know but let's just say you won or were offered an all expense paid heli ski trip you would refuse it or turn it down. Please, you said yourself you were jealous. Stop being a waste of electricity, get off the computer and go plant a tree.
May 21 2014 4:25PM
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Rusticles
Posts: 2180 - Karma: 1,337
But its so fucking worth it
May 21 2014 4:35PM
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Rusticles
Posts: 2180 - Karma: 1,337
But its so fucking worth it
May 21 2014 4:35PM
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Joonas
Posts: 568 - Karma: 230
No-one has said anything about snow making, and how bad it is for the soil. Cause, its really bad. In the alps around the skiresorts, the soil is basically just packed clay, and wont keep any water in it, which causes mass flooding, and problems to the agriculture.
I had a point too. Instead of cutting out on something we love, one could make greener choices in other parts of their lives. Like recycle (i hope all of you do this already), drink tap water, try not to use as much plastic (No waterbottles, use textile shopping bags etc.), learn to drive more efficienlty.. small things you know.
May 21 2014 5:04PM
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AT-AT
Posts: 3281 - Karma: 3,256
Cool Story Hansel!
May 21 2014 8:34PM
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infedel_one
Posts: 5140 - Karma: 444
whatever mannnn
May 21 2014 9:13PM
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razors-chaz
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 1,250
I promise that if i get the chance to heli ski i will pay to offset my carbon. Happier now OP?
May 22 2014 8:38AM
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Yaraelpoof.png
Posts: 1556 - Karma: 6,418
true, but walking sucks
May 22 2014 9:23AM
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milk_man
Posts: 5252 - Karma: 5,983
Bringing a person to the top of a mountain in a short amount of time is gonna use quite a bit of energy no matter how you do it.

Obviously lifts are more efficient than helicopters but taking a helicopter is so much more epic and you can get untouched terrain so who cares
May 22 2014 11:28AM
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