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Heli-Skiing and sledding are horrible for the environment

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please
Posts: 96 - Karma: 600
I was just thinking about skiing and the impact it has on the environment and I couldn't help thinking that Heli-Skiing and Sledding are terrible for the environment.

For both you are going into the wilderness potential disturbing the wildlife. For both you are using a humongous amount of fuel to get skiers up to the top of their lines.

Compared to ski-resorts where the impact is concentrated in one area, the efficiency of ski-lifts have to be much more efficient than heli-skiing and sledding. But you do have the factor of resort lodging, trash produced and the number of cars to bring people to the hill but that is simply because of the sheer volume. On a per-skier basis it is much worse to go backcountry skiing using a helicopter or a sled than it is to use a resort.

Obviously, skinning does not fall into this category and has the lowest impact out of all the others.

tldr: If you want to save the environment don't go heli skiing or use a sled to go backcountry skiing.
Mar 20 2014 3:24PM
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Turkelton
Posts: 2829 - Karma: 8,558
Yeah it must have SUCH a big impact on the world!

Mar 20 2014 3:29PM
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Turkelton
Posts: 2829 - Karma: 8,558
Also OP your statistics and facts are well backed up and explained.
thanks
Mar 20 2014 3:32PM
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please
Posts: 96 - Karma: 600
Do I really need to find something to back up the fact that it takes more energy per-person to power a helicopter for one skier than it does to power a lift for thousands?
Mar 20 2014 3:35PM
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broto
Posts: 9039 - Karma: 25,662
ok
Mar 20 2014 3:39PM
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corona
Posts: 12795 - Karma: 32,749
skiers are generally incredibly hypocritical when it comes to the environment. I thought this was well know and accepted.
Mar 20 2014 3:45PM
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Abu_Hajaar
Posts: 2749 - Karma: 3,907
op lives in a carrot
Mar 20 2014 3:48PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,364
And carrots live undeground. OP lives underground
Mar 20 2014 3:51PM
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ANDR01D
Posts: 1181 - Karma: 3,319
And carrots contain Vitamin A. OP's night vision is on point, which is useful since OP lives underground.
Mar 20 2014 3:56PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
You got stoned didn't you.

I'm not going to pretend like I know any real information on which is worse than which, but lets have some fun.

What would you constitute 'bad' for the environment? Ski resorts cut down the forest, regrade a lot of terrain, and have some human presence in the ski area boundary year round (obviously more in the winter, but they do maintenance and what not year round). They have sleds, cats, etc running every day during the winter, blah blah blah.

Helicopters use jet fuel, so yeah, it's bad as far as air pollution goes, but besides the minimal brushing program some heli operations might do, they don't actually impact the actual land they are using. Around the big bend ranges in the Selkirks of BC there are rotating closures for the Mountain Caribou so the heli skiers don't disturb them. So at the ground level, heli skiing doesn't really do much to the environment besides a bit of noise pollution.

Snowmobiles are getting more and more efficient at not polluting the air as much - they used to be horrible, now though, a new sled isn't too shabby. They use already existing logging roads to gain access to sledding/sled skiing zones and like the heli companies, there are areas closed off to sled travel based on where the Caribou are at the time. Considering the impact that the logging industry is doing on the environment compared to sledders who are just utilizing their roads in the off season, it doesn't really seem too bad.

Out of sledding, heli skiing, and ski resorts, to claim one is worse than the other without any hard facts is silly because it's all perspective.
Mar 20 2014 3:58PM
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baaangthat
Posts: 2245 - Karma: 2,587
when is the last time you took a shower? seriously. and which has happened more recently...you showering or you juicing your own beets into a beet/dirt juice-like beverage

im calling you a dirty fucking hippy.
Mar 20 2014 4:01PM
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walkerkelly
Posts: 19 - Karma: 20

fucking hippy

Mar 20 2014 4:50PM
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mccdiggity
Posts: 27 - Karma: 100
No shit, skiing in general is horrible for the environment. If you think about all of the material that is mined for just one pair of skis you are already having a shitty impact on the natural world. When you factor in all your gear it definitely adds up. Watch "All. I. Can." on Netflix and you will realize that skiing has always been environmentally unfriendly.
Mar 20 2014 5:37PM
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snowpocalypse
Posts: 1036 - Karma: 3,525
For a good read on the subject check out
Downhill Slide: Why the Corporate Ski Industry is Bad for Skiing, Ski Towns, and the Environment
Click for larger image

I don't necessarily agree with all of it, being part of the Corporate Ski Industry and all but it does get you thinking. Worth the read.
Mar 20 2014 5:50PM
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Vinci
Posts: 701 - Karma: 1,472
fucking jerk
Mar 20 2014 5:53PM
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BobYohan
Posts: 3001 - Karma: 375
really? the guys from All.I.Can used lots of helis and sleds and they're environmentalists so I thought it was all good...
Mar 20 2014 6:31PM
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ZachAndCheese
Posts: 816 - Karma: 5,116
Op is just jealous he can't afford a helicopter or sleds
Mar 20 2014 6:50PM
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SkiBum.
Posts: 3600 - Karma: 3,909
You must be a leaf eating hipster homo like that Chicken dude.

Go save the world somewhere else.
Mar 20 2014 6:56PM
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562056961108
Posts: 0 - Karma: 575
Fuck you OP. Heli Skiing is every skiers dream. Don't ruin it being such a hippy. If you want improved efficiency, go work on electric cars and more efficient power plants. bigger impact, less douchey.
Mar 20 2014 7:04PM
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joshua
Posts: 5046 - Karma: 1,280
If everyone in the world went heli-skiing, then yes we would probably have some issues, (oil supply, air quality, etc.) However, think of how many people in the world actually go heli skiing in their lifetime, and then think of how many people will go more than mabeye once. Not too many. In the grand perspective of things, I think that its a drop in the barrel.

Resort skiing in general, now that is more of a conversation worth having IMO.

Mar 20 2014 7:14PM
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please
Posts: 96 - Karma: 600
Of course I'm jealous I can't but thats not the point. The point is that it is crazy hypocritical for pro-skiers to be like jah lets save the environment bro all the snow is going to melt and then they go on 3 heli-trips a year and spend every other day on a sled.
Mar 20 2014 7:16PM
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joshua
Posts: 5046 - Karma: 1,280
Now that is a fair point.
Mar 20 2014 7:19PM
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jensen
Posts: 2576 - Karma: 1,267
Go join the Sierra Club, hippy.
Mar 20 2014 7:20PM
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Toaster-Tony
Posts: 3531 - Karma: 5,850
So let me get this straight.. It I somehow get the one in a lifetime chance to go heli-skiing, you want me to turn it down because it hurts the environment?

Haha whatever man.

By the way, your theory isn't true because the number of people that ski lifts outnumbers the people who heli ski per year by a laughable amount. Pretty sure no matter how people decide to go heli skiing, the resorts will always be more detrimental to the environment.

I give this troll a 7/10 tho. Nicely done.
Mar 20 2014 7:32PM
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WeebZ
Posts: 365 - Karma: 815

It doesn't matter what you do: tour, sled, or heli-ski. 

Some things are worse for the environment than others, yes. But there will always be huge companies mining every drop of oil the earth has until it is gone forever and it won't make a difference whether or not how each one of us skis.  As long as the greed of the human race has a direct affect on our planet and its resources, the earth will one day no longer be a safe place to live, but it won't happen in our lifetime. 

Keep calm and ski on.

Mar 20 2014 8:03PM
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please
Posts: 96 - Karma: 600
Can you read?

I clearly said multiple times that heli-skiing is worse on a per-skier basis not overall.
Mar 20 2014 8:09PM
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HairyOutlaw
Posts: 13 - Karma: 115
BRAAAAAAAAP


now fuck off
Mar 20 2014 8:10PM
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please
Posts: 96 - Karma: 600
So just because there will always be people drilling what ever oil is left I should disregard my environmental impact. That is the kind of dumb logic that got us into this mess in the first place.

Oh I only have $100 dollars left to spend and I can't get any more, lets spend all of it on strippers, because why not I'm not going to get any more anyways.

Mar 20 2014 8:13PM
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.Duncan.
Posts: 1375 - Karma: 459
Just make more money.
Mar 20 2014 8:21PM
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kmfoley2
Posts: 127 - Karma: 277
sleds are pretty good on gas i don't know what your talking about
Mar 20 2014 9:19PM
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ShredMasterPlus
Posts: 1159 - Karma: 807
Sounds like a hell of a way to go broke
Mar 20 2014 9:49PM
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WeebZ
Posts: 365 - Karma: 815
If you only have $100 get a job drilling oil to make more.

I didn't say disregard your environmental impact. I meant that skiing has such a little impact that how you ski won't change the fate of the planet. 

Enjoy skiing while it's here.
Mar 20 2014 10:01PM
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D3NZ3L
Posts: 556 - Karma: 37
Sledding may cause pollution but it does not impact the ground at all. Cars are much worse on gas then sleds. OP is just jealous
Mar 20 2014 10:07PM
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SimplyClean
Posts: 556 - Karma: 1,752
See you're completely wrong...do you know how much fuel is burned by every vehicle that travels to a ski resort to ski?

I don't know the exact number, but let's say (being conservative) 5000 vehicles travel to all the resorts on i70 from Denver on a weekend day. Mostly all of them are on pump fuel and use 8+ gallons round trip. That's 40,000+ gallons burned in one day. Now how many gallons you think skiers on sleds and heli's burn in a day IN COLORADO? Not even close to 40k I can tell you that much.
Mar 20 2014 10:49PM
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byubound
Posts: 1636 - Karma: 9,870
The obvious solution is to ski urban
Mar 20 2014 10:50PM
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rtl32
Posts: 679 - Karma: 1,161
Off topic, but oil doesn''t work that way... It takes millions of years for it to form again, we can't just make more of it
Mar 20 2014 10:57PM
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Bensun
Posts: 480 - Karma: 1,654
well duh. what do you think skis= toxic snow toys... I am sure the process to make them is not environmentally friendly in the slightest bit. Get over it people don't give a flying fuck...  And there are much more serious issues then heli skiing.
Mar 20 2014 11:25PM
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Turd.Ferguson
Posts: 1437 - Karma: 2,713
fuck you for expecting anyone here to read a book



hippy
Mar 20 2014 11:58PM
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SimplyClean
Posts: 556 - Karma: 1,752
That doesn't make him a hippy, that makes him that much smarter than you.
Mar 21 2014 12:07AM
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*JDBP*
Posts: 312 - Karma: 2,006
How many fucking people do these things in comparison to the vast numbers people that drive cars in the world?

Do you know what you are saying?
Mar 21 2014 12:29AM
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K-Dot.
Posts: 3739 - Karma: 7,737
I didn't realize that this thread was a hippy convention
Mar 21 2014 1:09AM
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baaangthat
Posts: 2245 - Karma: 2,587
increase in knowledge does not directly correlate to increase in intelligence
Mar 21 2014 1:18AM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,484
So if I read Goodnight moon, the very hungry caterpillar and green eggs and ham ill be smarter than everyone?
Mar 21 2014 5:05AM
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please
Posts: 96 - Karma: 600
CAN ANYONE HERE READ?

I have never been talking about the direct impact of either one I have been talking about the impact that you can control, the impact you leave by choosing to do one or the other. Of course the aggregate impact is larger with ski resorts, i'm talking about the PER-SKIER impact and for that heli-skiing, cat-skiing and sledding are clearly much higher than going to a resort.
Mar 21 2014 7:12AM
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galardogod
Posts: 1698 - Karma: 5,209
And i give a fuck why?
Mar 21 2014 7:19AM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,484
Dude you don't get it, ski resorts have a way bigger overall impact on the environment
Mar 21 2014 10:19AM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
sorta surprising how many skiers, who you'd think would appreciate nature at least to some extent, are being so contemptuous to this guy

anyway, i don't need to worry about either cause i can't afford heli or sled tripping.

skinning/hiking is the answer! use your own energy instead of oil you pussies
Mar 21 2014 10:30AM
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skicowboy
Posts: 775 - Karma: 873
Not very true about the wildlife. Have you been heli skiing before? The majority of the time you are quite high in the mountains, not to mention that it's winter and there really isn't much active wildlife high in the mountains during the winter. The effect of heli skiing doesn't extend into the summer on wildlife. Maybe a few small pieces of dropped lunch garbage or a lost ski. Ski resorts however, cut trails through habitats and destroy plenty of areas that wildlife would use in the summer. And although wildlife will inhabit these areas, it's in a different way than if it would be left alone. Sledders generally access the higher elevations via cutblocks and trails/access roads, so they aren't further disturbing the environment for the most part. They also will generally not leave a lasting impact on the environment below the snow.

On the topic of fuel consumption; when I went heli skiing it was in an A-star. This type of heli uses approx 190L of fuel per hour. Per skier that is 19L fuel per hour flying time. BUT our heli serviced 3 skier groups of 10 people each, so it's about 6.3L per hour. But there are also 2 guides per group as well, so it's about 5.2L of fuel per skier per hour of flying time. On a standard heli trip you only get 3 runs unless you pay for unlimited vert. Let's say you did what we did and skied from about 9:30am to 3pm. 5 1/2 hours. The heli is not in the air the whole time as you stop for lunch and such, but for arguments sake let's say it was. Per person you used 27.5L of fuel, or for US about 7.25 gallons.

Do you honestly believe that this amount of fuel is statistically more significant than the amount used to travel to the hill plus the amount used to power the chairlifts?

I'm all for protecting the environment, being conscious of energy use and trying to live life more sustainably. After doing heli once, I won't go again until I can do a trip to Alaska because the terrain was just too tame for me. Until that point, I plan on going to touring lodges like GAH because they have amazing terrain and it's up to you about what you ski, which is good for sending lines but a bit more nerve racking because I don't get to practice avy safety much living out east.

However, if you plan on making an argument saying that the sledders, cat skiers, and heli skiers are ruining the environment, at least try to make it valid.

Sorry for the long read folks.
Mar 21 2014 11:01AM
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snowpocalypse
Posts: 1036 - Karma: 3,525
Reading has cognitive consequences that extend beyond its immediate task of lifting meaning from a particular passage. Furthermore, these consequences are reciprocal and exponential in nature. Accumulated over time—spiraling either upward or downward—they carry profound implications for the development of a wide range of cognitive capabilities.
Mar 21 2014 11:07AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51630 - Karma: 162,078
What about all the fuel used grooming mountains? What about the gas you use just driving around regularly.

Heli skiing is "horrible" enough that you had to make a thread? Sure bro.



Mar 21 2014 11:21AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51630 - Karma: 162,078
That said I do agree they should both be banned because I'm too poor to afford either
Mar 21 2014 11:23AM
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