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Teen suicides?

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YourMomsCouch
Posts: 311 - Karma: 4,039
So I just found out that in my hometown there were two violent teen suicides within just two days of each other. A girl who was the ex chief of police's daughter shot herself in the head while her family was home, and another unidentified kid jumped in front of an oncoming train. Im not too sure if these are both suicides, seeing as the town has a huge gang problem, but either way they're both pretty messed up ways to go. Share your thoughts ns
Mar 15 2014 9:02AM
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Gherbs
Posts: 530 - Karma: 903
one of my really good friends recently committed suicide, probably 2 or 3 months ago, and to this day me and my friends cannot figure out why he would commit this act. we knew he had problems at home with his parents, and some bullying problems at school, but never proving to be such a severe problem. his problems and an average teenagers problems are pretty relatable, showed up happy to school, got in fights with his parents, regular bullshit.
One random night, completely out of the blue, I just got a text from my best friend that I've known my whole life saying that he had killed himself, he had hung himself in his room. I had talked to this kid 2
days before this happened and we were laughing and talking about cars and who he was going to ask to prom. everyone was so dazed and confused by this, nothing could have been THAT bad for him. THIS is why I think suicide is selfish, he caused so much pain and hurt for his family, friends, and even the entire fucking school had a memorial for him. There is no way he was ever going through the amount of grieving that we had to go through after he was gone. I lost one of my best friends to suicide and I still feel it's selfish, so don't tell me that I don't know know what it feels like to be with someone suicidal. Suicide isn't a solution to anything, bottom line. Creates so much more grieving because one person couldn't handle their problems, so they solve all their problems by killing themselves, only putting so many troubles on the people that cared about them.
Mar 16 2014 2:53AM
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B.Aussie
Posts: 5852 - Karma: 4,531
Many actually.
Mar 16 2014 3:56AM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,123
this was not a troll post. I don't want other people to kill themselves, but if I do not know them, then I do not give one single fuck if they do. I also don't give a fuck about cow #247 in some random town in midwest USA. however when you look at it at a whole, a few kids killing themselves is nothing compared to what we do to animals (and humans) around the world. The person who committed suicide was not being forced to do anything, whereas people or animals in slavery are. So I feel worse about them than the stupid kid who decided to throw away their own lives.

Life is precious. If you watch a cow being slaughtered it is fucking begging for its life, and you want me to feel sympathy for some fucking idiot who chooses to throw theirs away? Sorry, that's not gonna happen. I'll keep fighting for the ones who want to live.
Mar 16 2014 4:10AM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,123
what were they eating and doing? hopefully no skicross. i'd kill myself too if I was a ski cross racer!
Mar 16 2014 4:57AM
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PeppermillReno
Posts: 4805 - Karma: -650
They killed themselves unless they robbed someone for thousands of dollars in drugs.


Sympathy is a drug for many. I think certain people pass a point of no return and all they crave is attention and sympathy and when they aren't getting enough they'll make a suicide attempt....and maybe it will be a success.


Mar 16 2014 6:39AM
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90053
Posts: 2565 - Karma: 3,728
precisely, you are simply avoiding the problems, not solving them

for example, you are depressed because you do not feel accepted by those around you.
Will you feel any more accepted if you kill yourself? no.
You will not feel anything because you are dead and you will never be able to experience the thing you want edmost which was to be accpeted.
Mar 16 2014 7:54AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
Right, but you won't feel depressed anymore, either.

It's pretty hard to have problems if you're dead. If it doesn't technically solve them, it at least makes them go away.
Mar 16 2014 9:07AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
You don't, and can't, know that.
Mar 16 2014 9:09AM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,029
of course not. But, before someone kills themselves they likely imagine all of the attention they will get when they're gone. Right or wrong, we're not talking rational thinkers here...
Mar 16 2014 9:16AM
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90053
Posts: 2565 - Karma: 3,728
but depression isn't the problem it is the result of the problem, as stated earlier people are not thinking rationally when they commit suicide
Mar 16 2014 11:56AM
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op14
Posts: 1769 - Karma: 4,586
Are you kidding me? Suicide is not selfish in any way shape or form. People commit suicide because they can't stand to live in the life they live. Many reasons are because some feel the world would be "better off" without them. How is that in any ways selfish?
Mar 16 2014 11:58AM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,123
ok this one was obviously trolling..
Mar 16 2014 11:58AM
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OCM
Posts: 1276 - Karma: 975
Theyre fucking animals dude. Humans, and other animals, have been killing animals for literally hundreds of thousands of years! Who gives a fuck if we kill a million cows a year, its part of life that animals kill other animals to survive. Also the fact that you are even slightly comparing killing a cow and a person committing suicide makes me want to punch you in the face.

One human life is honestly more important than 10,000 cows (or more even), and I can't even begin to understand how you could ever feel worse for the poor dead cows than actual people who have committed suicide. You need to get your priorities straight.
Mar 16 2014 12:18PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,123
meh. I'm sure people have been killing themselves for thousands of years as well. I give a fuck that we kill millions of cows per year. I also give a fuck that we have children making nike shoes and people being forced into slavery and shit.

no one needs to be convinced that suicide is a bad thing. whereas the majority of the meat eating, sweatshop wearing population just doesn't give a fuck about those issues. I think those are the issues we need to address. If you want less suicides you should be fighting for free healthcare and other stuff like that.

some teen jumping in front of a train does not affect me in any way at all. I probably wont even hear about it because the media doesn't usually cover suicides. However raising billions of animals per year does affect me, as it is fucking up my planet, so that's why I care more about it more.
Mar 16 2014 12:36PM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,029
You don't need to go half away around the world to find slavery. Just go down to your local walmart and talk to people working 2 part time, minimum wage jobs with no health benefits and then go eat fast food and see how shitty the work is for no money. That's present day slavery. Right in our faces. All while the CEO's of these companies make billionsssssssssssssss.....

Mar 16 2014 1:03PM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,029
well, at least in America.. I know Canada has their healthcare
Mar 16 2014 1:07PM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
You act like the people working shitty, minimum wage jobs don't have any other choice, and the rich CEOs didn't work their asses off to get that rich. Where'd you set up your tent during the occupy Wall Street movement? Did you get a good spot?
Mar 16 2014 1:13PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
Not necessarily true. If you suffer from depression, you suffer from depression. Things people do to you aren't going to change it.
Mar 16 2014 1:20PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
bullshit counterargument to a bullshit argument.

poor people = lazy people.

there we have it. or not?




realize where this attitude comes from (protestants) and you might be able to feel compassion towards others.
Mar 16 2014 2:36PM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,029
They have very few options. A lot of the time these people are raised poor, horrible education, and started from nothing. Keeping the poor people down. No reason the owners of Walmart need to make billions. Spread out the wealth.

Kids born into rich families hit the lotto and they don't even know it. Poor kids are born into a shitty situation and mimic their surroundings. You expect some poor kid to pick himself up by his bootstraps when he shows up to first grade?

Mar 16 2014 2:44PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,123
a lot of the time they don't. Uneducated people often have very little options for working other than minimum wage jobs. Of course they could get an education (if they can afford it), but not everyone is in the circumstance to do that. Furthermore, our society needs people who are gonna flip burgers and stock shelves and make coffee. These are all legitimate things that benefit everyone. I am not saying that they should make a fortune for doing these jobs, but at least enough to support a family.

you don't realize how lucky people like us are to have money. I don't know your exact circumstances, but I am assuming that you did not completely pay your way through med school yourself. A lot of people don't have these luxuries.

however I would not call someone working at Walmart a slave. But there is real slavery going on in the world, either from debt bondage or even straight up old-school slavery.
Mar 16 2014 3:26PM
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JeremyClarkson
Posts: 1599 - Karma: 1,934
Writing that statement from your cosy little apartment mommy and daddy bought you? Along with literally everything you own and strive for being handed to you? You are such a goddamn retard its not even funny anymore.....
Mar 16 2014 3:39PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,123
i've also changed my mind and I actually do care about people who commit suicide. It was pointed out to me that depression is actually a disease that affects a lot of people. I didn't really understand that it's caused by an actual chemical imbalance in your brain. I had no idea how often people actually kill themselves either.

I guess a huge problem is that people can not get the healthcare they need. Also a lot of adults, especially men, are reluctant to get help for these things because of the social stigma associated with it. I guess our society is pretty full of guys who put on that emotionless macho attitude, which is kinda BS because everyone has emotions.

Also bullying is a big problem. Bullying is probably worse with young kids, because you are forcing everyone to be around each other all day at school, but it never really ends. I have to deal with bullies much more in university than I ever did in high school. It's not like I act like an extreme vegan anarchist and go around telling people that they suck. I only do that here because of all the shit that was said to me! Literally the only time I ever mention I am vegan is when I am discussing/ordering food. Yet there are still people who will straight up bully me for mentioning it. There are also people who make fun of me for studying physics. Like 22-23 year old adults basically just bullying people.

For me the jokes on them. It really doesn't affect me at all to hear a guy brag about his "bloody dead animal" or something. I just laugh at how pathetic they are to try and offend me. But I am also not depressed. I could see how like making fun of people for their looks, sexuality, wealth, diet, religion, etc could make someone who has mental issues just feel really a lot shittier about themselves.

so basically (sparknotes) I take back everything I said about stupid kids killing themselves and apologize for saying that. They obviously had treatable health issues, and could not find help before it was to late. There is also a good chance that people said a lot of mean stuff without thinking of the consequences. My earlier posts in this thread are an example of that. To me that is really shitty and I feel sympathetic towards these people and their families.
Mar 16 2014 3:51PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,123
is this not enough books for you?

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sorry that I am not an expert on every subject. Obviously I said out my opinion before I did my research and that was stupid. Which is why I just gave a sincere apology... I know how annoying it is for uninformed people to give their opinions on things. Being a vegetarian I have to deal with that all the time.
Mar 16 2014 4:12PM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 37393 - Karma: 120,172
yeah i just want to say that across the board, its a lot of misinformation about how to treat it. i hope school counselors actually took the time when they were getting their degrees and read into teenage depression/mental stability.
Mar 16 2014 4:21PM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
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Mar 16 2014 4:25PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,123
Yeah. Although I guess if everyone did that, then NSG wouldn't be such a shit show. Don't pretend that people don't say ignorant shit on topics that are sensitive to me.
Mar 16 2014 4:44PM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 37393 - Karma: 120,172
so its okay to turn around and stoop to their level? great logic for sure.
Mar 16 2014 4:59PM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,029
Then don't respond to those post. Obviously people keep trolling you because you get so riled up. If you're ok with who you are then fuck them.
You're on team Vegan. We get it. My sister used to be Vegan and it was annoying as shit. You guys defend being Vegan like some annoying drunk asshole defends his favorite sports team. You don't give a fuck what the argument is, you follow team Vegan rules.
Mar 16 2014 5:07PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,354
Sensitive to you? God youre a pussy. Id fight you irl
Mar 16 2014 5:09PM
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SFB
Posts: 8895 - Karma: 26,352
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Mar 16 2014 5:12PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,354
I serve this little freaks dad coffee and hes all little jerkoff too and to make it even better him and his midget wife just separated lol
Mar 16 2014 5:14PM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 37393 - Karma: 120,172
they gotta compensate for a lot, i guess...
Mar 16 2014 5:15PM
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shocker611
Posts: 2599 - Karma: 423
yeah, this is something I have struggled with. Do I feel bad that the kids from my HS that never did their homework, showed for class, or worked hard at anything in their life have to work 2 jobs at Walmart to survive? NO. But I also went to a school in middle America where literally every kid had the opportunity to "make it" and become successful. I'm sure if I grew up in the inner city where the education was shitty and I saw kids busting their ass and still not being able to become successful I would have a much different outlook, something that I should probably have.
Mar 16 2014 5:52PM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,029
they may have public education but there is more than what is on the surface.  They may be too poor to get the proper nutrition, or come from shit-bag parents.  They get dealt a shitty hand that is hard to overcome...
Mar 16 2014 5:54PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
I came from a very, very well respected public high school both acedemically and athletically. There was a ton of pressure to succeed- My parents were looked at sympathetically when they told people i was going to WSU for college. Out of a 400 person graduating class 80 something kids went to Cal, Stanford, or an Ivy. Only 30 kids didnt go on to a university right after HS, and of those 30, 28 later transfered to a university; most to a UC system school.

There has been a string of suicides amongst high schoolers in our town since i can rememember. On the way to school one morning I walked up on a good friends suicide seconds after he jumped in front of a commuter train whose tracks border our school. A year later another friend killed himself the same way. this time, in the middle of the second quarter of the final football game of the year. It was pretty tough to continue playing when you see everything that happened because the tracks are 50 feet from the visitors sideline.

i think that suicide is the most selfish thing you can do in this life. You are essentially taking all the pain and hurt you feel, and, with no warning, dumping it on those around you just so you can make a temporary pain go away. The pain that your friends and family feel fades, but never completely goes away. I have sympathy for people living with depression so deep suicide is "the only option". But i will never feel sympathy for those that take their life. only the people that they hurt with their selfish actions.

Mar 16 2014 6:08PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,123
that's fucking bullshit and you know it. I've tried to get in rational debates here and people like you just straight up bitch about vegans being preachy or annoying as shit without saying anything insightful.

Do you honestly think people go vegan because they want to follow a bunch of "vegan rules"? It's not a religion. It's a choice a lot of people make based on the evidence that we see.

What you said is just as ignorant as saying that gay people are annoying as fuck because some of them are really outspoken about gay pride.
Mar 16 2014 6:37PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,123
so is it ok to make fun of someone because they chose a certain religion, or chose not to get an education, or chose to play dungeons and dragons instead of football in high school? I don't think so. It's also not ok to make fun of someone because what they choose to eat. All that is saying is that bullying is tolerable in some situations.
Mar 16 2014 6:42PM
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youngdtay
Posts: 3122 - Karma: -112
I actually knew the dude that killed himself this year. I used to do labs with him in Chem/Physics 11 or something.
Mar 16 2014 6:52PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
yeah, it is. Grow the fuck up. Life isnt easy, the strong survive. You getting bullied? fucking change. Its society's way of letting you know that you are bring the rest of us down.

Dont want to change, fine. Dont bitch about how society shits on you then. grow a skin thicker than tissue paper and change society.

If its a choice that is getting you bullied then its your own damn fault.
Mar 16 2014 6:57PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,123
well that's what I personally do. But not everyone can handle bullying like that, and it's part of the reason why we have kids killing themselves.

I have no idea why it is worse to offend people who have lost loved ones to suicide than it is to promote the type of bullying that might have led to the suicide in the first place. That makes no sense to me.

You can't pretend you are on some higher moral ground when you make suicide some topic that we gotta treat all sensitively and shit, but then actively participate in, or at least ignore underlying issues like bullying that is one of the major causes of suicide.
Mar 16 2014 7:27PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
I dont think it is a major cause. I think it is a very minor cause that the media has latched onto and has blown up into this huge crisis.

How many special reports and news stories do you see about teens who werent bullied killing themselves? none. cause thats not a hot topic to yell from a soap box about. how do you define bullying? Its seems that nowdays if you arent friends with someone or nice all the time to someone you are bullying them. thats bullshit.

Bullying is blown way, way out of proportion.
Mar 16 2014 7:33PM
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AT-AT
Posts: 3281 - Karma: 3,256
Depression sucks, its terrible, and really hard to get yourself out of. Its hard to explain and understand if you yourself have never been depressed.
Mar 16 2014 7:56PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51652 - Karma: 162,279
They may seem happy on the outside but that doesn't mean they are. There can be a ton of internal shit going on that doesn't surface. Sometimes people are doing their best to hold it together and be as "happy" as they can be, also trying to make sure other people around them are doing alright as well.

Think about this. The "happiness" you saw could have been him struggling ridiculously hard and barely hanging on just because of the people around him. This might have been a battle for years that he tried to block out. People are so quick to jump in and call somebody selfish before really trying to think about what that person could have been going through. If you've never been that depressed you can't understand but you can to an extent if you try to climb into their shoes.

Personally I think it's selfish to an extent to feel that way about the situation. Understandable but selfish, at least if anything is selfish in this situation. You're saying somebody going through shit you couldn't even dream of should hang on just to please you by being around.

The "suicide isn't a solution" idea goes great if you don't understand the problem. To me there are two kinds. The people that overreact to a situation and the people battling some long term shit. The overreaction to a situation sucks because there's a good chance they would have been alright in the long run. As far as the long term it could be a never ending struggle. Everyday could be intense beyond your worst nightmares. It's not like everybody that kills themselves is doing it because they're pissed that their wi fi wasn't working or something else that trivial.

Honestly possibly one of the only reasons why I'm kicking it on this earth is I found or gave myself a mission to try and make some peoples lives a little better while I'm kicking it on this rock. That gave me enough purpose to hang around. As far as my friends, some of them would understand some of them wouldn't. My family wouldn't concern me at all in that discussion.




Sparknotes: Just because somebody is smiling and nice doesn't mean they're happy.
Mar 16 2014 8:24PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
Very much this. If killing yourself is selfish because it puts those who care about you through a lot of pain, isn't it also selfish to want someone to keep going through a lot of pain so that you don't have to feel any pain?
Mar 16 2014 8:37PM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,029
Def.. now if someone with kids crashes drunk and dies, that would he selfish as fuckkk
Mar 16 2014 8:39PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
one kind of pain is permanent the other is temporary. One kind can be undone the other cannot.

Ive been on both sides of this equation. If you have people that love you, suicide IS the most selfish thing you can do in this life. I highly doubt i will have a future experience that makes me soften this view.
Mar 16 2014 8:49PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
If you suffer from clinical depression you may never get over it. And when someone dies, with time you get over it. I would hardly call that pain "permanent." It may take years, but eventually you learn to accept it and it doesn't hurt so much.

I don't know which is more selfish, and it's impossible to say for certain since every situation is different. All I'm saying is that if suicide is selfish for causing pain, then wanting someone to stay alive so you don't have to feel pain is also selfish. It's not a one-way street, but people always talk like it is.
Mar 16 2014 9:02PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
it is though. If you have crushing financial debt and you just give it all to your parents and are able to move out of the country scot free, i would say thats selfish. you are just passing on your problems.

As a good human being you dont knowingly hurt others. when you kill yourself you are knowingly hurting others strictly for your own benefit. If you fight the depression by seeking help, and trying treatments you benefit everyone around you.


The VAST majority of suicides are committed by people who DO NOT have chronic clinical depression( and even then drugs do help), so they are living up to the age old adage "a permanent solution to a temporary problem". Its fucked up.

There are cures, and treatments out there. is it gonna be rough for a while when you are trying to figure out how to properly treat your depression? absoultely. It is difficult and it is hard but it is the route you must take to live a productive, happy life. Or you could just quit. Take the easy way out. the lazy way out. say "fuck it, my pain is more important than everyone else's pain". "I am more important than all my friends and family, my wants are more important than all of their wants".

Mar 16 2014 9:21PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
Like I said, I don't want to argue about this because we can't possibly come to any kind of certain conclusion because every case is different.

Again, all I'm saying is that both sides - both the person who wants to commit suicide and the person who does not want to commit suicide - are selfish, and it's ignorant for people to act like only one side is in the wrong.
Mar 16 2014 9:39PM
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